CVG editor Tim's verbal joust with Alan Titchmarsh has aired on ITV1 - and it's explosive, shout-at-the-TV stuff.
Some of the anti-game arguments would be laughable - if this wasn't national telly.
Former editor of The Sun Kelvin MacKenzie was a little less hysterical, but still certainly sat closer to the 'anti-games' camp.
Tim countered with strong arguments on gaming's regulation and the fact adult titles "shouldn't be getting into kids' hands in the first place".
As you'd imagine, it's a fiery, frequently aggravating encounter. Watch it on the ITV Player, 23 minutes in - or check out the clip here:
The Alan Titchmarsh Video Games debate - ITV One
07:25 CVG Editor Tim Ingham takes on Julie Peasgood, Alan Titchmarsh and Kelvin MacKenzie on ITV
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Comments
205 comments so far...
BattleMoose87 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Call of Duty 2: Modern Warfare? PC modding community must be responsible for that one there.
wrightandrewjame on 20 Mar '10 said:
Nice try Tim, but you were always fighting a losing battle there. Well "fighting" is probably the wrong word considering their "total opposition to violence". I must say you put up some very valid points and it is clear from some of the other guests comments that they had very little knowledge of games, especially when Titchmarsh said games weren't rated!
It's clear that violence can be a little excessive in video games sometimes, but if you look at some of the horror movies (like Saw) that have been released in recent years games are nowhere near that level of brutality.
Nice of them to try and claim that video games make all kids depressive psychopaths though. Maybe they should watch the news to see that violence has become a daily occurance. The difference there is that the violence is real. If it wasn't for wars we wouldn't have these movies and games in the first place.
funkymonkey18 on 20 Mar '10 said:
I watched it yesterday and thought it was awful. I don't think you could've found 3 people less clued up on games! It felt like poor Tim was being thrown to the lions (albeit elderly granny lions who'd sooner munch on a werthers than your head!) I noticed that none of them were acknowledging Tim's point that these games shouldn't be in the hands of minors anyway and that they have a rating, just like movies and dvd's. Their argument was flimsy at best and they were absolutely glossing over everything he had to say. Bloody Alan Titchmarsh!
microhenry on 20 Mar '10 said:
Stuff like this just really aggravates me.
Most 'high powered' politicians, TV show hosts etc have no idea about video games.
Remember the Mass Effect sex scandal a few years ago? One of the hosts slating the guy from Bioware hadn't even played or heard of 'Massy Fect'.
Bloody Parthians...
If anyone is interested I've just written a 5,000 word essay on something along these lines:
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddgtzj4b_3mv5kxqcv
Alex on 20 Mar '10 said:
I didn't find it explosive or shout at the tv stuff. But it does go to show that people don't know what they are talking about and what's scary is that there's so much ignorance going into legislation these days. Hopefully in the next 10-15 years we can learn to be more tolerant and open-minded about things and other peoples' opinions than we are at the moment instead of trying to control others all the time and making life what it isn't.
It's like trying to ban adult dvds because John Terry has been in the news and mtv is sexualising our children. I wouldn't have thought Julie Peasgood would have been happy with her world being curtailed because other people are irresponsible with media.
Nickaveli1 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Yeah, the Sugababes would get the D, no doubt.
BattleMoose87 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Their argument was that films are not interactive therefore they are not bad, yet they go on to say that war should not be a source of entertainment. Aren't films and games entertainment in their own right?
As a kid, films such as Halloween scared the cr@p out of me with the fear that there could easily be someone in my house waiting for the chance to kill me. Games however empower people in some ways in that you ultimately fend off threats and evil. As a child, empowerment to ward off your fears is good in my opinion.
However, they ignore the fact that it is the parents responsibility to prevent their children from playing games rated 15 or above.
Good comeback Tim with the part about parental controls on the PS3 and 360.
lashed on 20 Mar '10 said:
Its the 80's all over again with the video nastys. funny thing is they all got released back in the early 2000's tho.
I agree with Tim, it is the censorship I worry about more than anything else.
BenJy on 20 Mar '10 said:
I got just 7 seconds inf rom Julie Peasgood talking and stopped watching, Christ.
ragingmatt on 20 Mar '10 said:
good on you tim for holding your ground with such a bias audience and people who had no idea on what thye were talkinf about. it will all change in the future i hope
davemerritt on 20 Mar '10 said:
Tim you are a star. you were fully up against it there.
That Julie woman is a right tit though. At the end of the day it is the parents fault for giving the games to the child in the first place. A child does not have enough money to even buy the game, let alone the console, in the first place.
The game industry is single handedly keeping this country alive in this economic downturn and it's just another cheap shot at finding a scapegoat for "violence" in our children.
I have played computer games all my life, as have most of us on here, and i'm pretty sure we are the nicest bunch of geeks you will ever meet.
<3 you Tim.
ragingmatt on 20 Mar '10 said:
Shabozi on 20 Mar '10 said:
That is shocking...
They just can't seem to grasp the simple concept that some games, just like every other piece of entertainment, movies, books, music etc... aren't always for kids. They have this totally naive idea that it is only kids that buy/play video games, and that they can buy/play these games whenever they feel like it.
Kids aren't allowed to buy certain games, and parents have a responsibility to not let kids play certain games, just like they do with movies etc... The whole games are 'addictive' 'promote violence' 'racist' argument is made completely mute by that fact.
Good job Tim, you came across in a simple, well informed manner. Its just a pity the other people involved in your 'discussion' were blinded by complete naivety...
Surely though these old, out of touch buffoons will all die off at some point and the human race will just be left with people that actually understand video games and then it will all be ok, won't it?
BattleMoose87 on 20 Mar '10 said:
You should have turned up wearing a Nintendo Virtual Boy and a Super Scope. Whenever either of the guests spoke you should have made a static noise followed by "Hit confirmed" following your aiming animation.
Or...
You could have made a mock up of pixelisation from Perspex for when something is censored on TV and placed it over Kelvin and Julie. Seriously, Kelvin publishes pictures of barely legal girls t!ts in tabloid newspapers, and Julie writes books that children can get hold of advising them of The Greatest Sex Tips in the World
Shabozi on 20 Mar '10 said:
Exactly... The whole argument was made pointless by Tim stating in his first sentence that yes, not all games should be played by kids. Some games do have content that kids shouldn't be allowed to see/hear/play etc.. and thats why they have age certificates on them to stop kids playing games they shouldn't
They seemed to either not understand that simple point or just plain ignore it.
conceptwhite_fox on 20 Mar '10 said:
I hardly have the patience or time to comment here, but I feel I must...
It's through certain media that don't know how to portray/represent video games that cause a lot of this ignorance. Not to sound too vile/evil (same letters!), but the sooner those Alan Bitchmarsh and other ignorance of the same age group die out, the better...
When we get to 'that' age, I know for certain we'll have a MUCH better understanding of our children!
(P.S. ...but c'mon CVG! Going on that s**t of a TV show and trying to defend something that they clearly have no clue about!?
)
Moorpheus on 20 Mar '10 said:
Well this is just Fox News all over again.
You did good Tim but you were fighting a losing battle from the start.
I do find it funny that they have 1 person pro-gaming and 2 anti-gaming - not fair!
voodoo341 on 20 Mar '10 said:
I never even heard of this TV show before this. No bloody wonder! I'd rather watch paint drying.
logan13607 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Who the f**k does julie peasgood think she is!!!
Its ok blasting her Sex Tips all over the internet.
She was also in Brookside which had more sex,drugs and violence than any other soap i've seen.
f**kin has been actress!!!
This is what happens when actors/actresses are out of decent career options,they go on some idiotic crusade.It'll blow over the same as it always does.
This topic has been around as long as the game console,and never been sorted.
And Alan titchmarsh needs to go back to his f**kin garden the boring tosser.
The only one of them that was half decent was the old geezer,and he looked like he had been forced to be there by his mrs.
Rothepony on 20 Mar '10 said:
Great try there Tim. Like walking into a firing squad though. Julie Peasgood's only valid point is that movies are not interactive where as games are so they can't be compared in that way. However to suggest that they cause depression i found extremely offensive. Utter rubbish. This reeks of the Cooper Lawrence/Mass Effect fiasco. Not even the crowd were willing to listen to your points. A valiant effort and if it did anything it was that it highlighted the ongoing ignorance of people in their views of the industry and proved that video games shall remain a scapegoat for violence, racism sexual deviance and crime for some time to come.
Shabozi on 20 Mar '10 said:
Also just noticed something else...
What is up with the audience aplauding some random piece of so called 'evidence' about games making people violent, however when Tim brought up the governments own investigation which showed there was no link they didn't want any of it and heckled him?
People don't seem to understand that one thing doesn't make people violent. Its a combination of several factors. We have known this for decades, however some people still don't get this. They still think that playing violent games makes people violent.
I am willing to bet there are quite a few violent people out there that have played a violent video game. However I am willing to bet there are quite a few more non violent people that have played a violent video game...
Marlonjb on 20 Mar '10 said:
I watched this yesterday and I've never been more offended in my life. That silly cow was saying that video games causes "racism, sexism and horrific violence" what sort of games has she been playing?
The only thing about videogames that makes me violent is when daft people who don't know what they're talking about (like that daft cow) start slagging off my favourite past time just because they don't understand it!
All in all I've never been happier to look at a person and laugh as it's obvious she knew NOTHING about what she was talking about.
It's never been a better time to be a gamer than right now in my opinion and people slandering games for societies ills seriously need to STFU and take a good hard look at society in general. Games don't kill people stupid people kill people.
Rant over.
Dragovian on 20 Mar '10 said:
Tim was excellent, putting many great points across whilst under fire. I thought the audience was very rude rude to boo. After all, he was only defending a perfectly legal form of entertainment.
And yes, I WAS shouting at the TV!
markay13 on 20 Mar '10 said:
This like everything in today's life boils down to education of the subject matter. How can you judge something if you have never seen,played or bought said item?
An old girlfriend of mine didn't think twice about buying an 15 or 18 rated game for her then 8 year old son or even watching an 18 rated film despite my protests and then was shocked when he started swearing and getting an attitude!
Are these parents that stupid that they think a rating system is there for no reason? is it just for an easy life that they buy it for their kids or do think it doesn't apply to their special ones?
Games have grown up, jeez the price of some these days,you have to be a grown up to afford them!
AegisK on 20 Mar '10 said:
Its hard defending video games when there are people out there with no first hand experience. Games with innovation are much more praised than those with excessive violence. There are some exceptions like God of War 3 where the violence is glorified but it is within the context of the character.
MW2's CIA mission does not require active participation, can be skipped, and if anyone does get into that kind of thing find themselves dead by the end of the level, which is hardly rewarding the player for what just happened.
Seriously, she should get into the likes of LittleBigPlanet or some random Nintendo title and see if she doesn't enjoy them.
Zenball on 20 Mar '10 said:
That was hopeless. None of the people there were gamers apart from Tim and had just been whipped up into a Daily Mail apopleptic frenzy (or at least Julie Peasgood had) with out of context information and responses. Just as the emergence of the popular novel was blamed for the corruption of women and children, so videogames are today. Well, maybe not women. Maybe we won't see any sensible arguments or action until there isn't a generation alive that isn't familiar with games, but that needn't be. The interesting debate, for now, needs to happen between gamers. I have a couple of points.
Firstly, age ratings are not as enforced as they are in film. This is the fault of parents mostly, but the pressures that parents are under to get the games in the cultural ascendent, ie, the good ones, is great. Many of the really good games are rated 18: GTA IV, Fallout 3, MW 2, God of War 3, or have adult content. My sister bought COD MW 2 for my nephews, 12 and 10, because 'everyone else at school has it'. And they had. And my nephews were missing out on the multiplayer fun they were all having and talking about. I play it with them, and watching their response to the No Russian level was uncomfortable. They promised their parents that they would skip the level, which they did, but when I went to play it with them they loaded it up and gleefully mowed everyone down, laughing maniacally, but only because they knew it was a 'naughty scene' and why it had the 18 certificate. They were looking at me as they did it, like kids do when they know what they're doing is wrong but they're pushing you to discover how far they can push the boundaries. Kids aren't stupid, but they don't have the maturity to reflect on the significance of such things. I tried to explain it to them but it didn't really work. Like Julie Peasgood, they had little contextual appreciation, of world history, politics and warfare to understand what the game was trying to do. To them, it WAS gratuitous. And I thought it was a bit forcibly controversial too, but it did work. When I played it, I couldn't shoot anyone, and felt bad when shooting the special forces teams that descend on you at the end of the level.
My point is that adult games should be forced to have some form of parental lock on them so the 'naughty bits' are excluded from the game. An option to skip the level is not enough. All game outlets, online and offline, should clearly inform adults with children that there is parental lock available for the game and issue leaflets and dedicated webpages informing them of what to do to lock the game. Fallout 3 with no gibs and no swearing would be fine for kids. MW 2 minus No Russian and no blood on the screen would also be fine (haven't played it all so there might be more). It might be harder for games such as Condemned 2, which is unremittingly bleak, but it would be possible. Perhaps these games could have a parental unlock somehow built in. It may only be realistic with games with an expected large market, with a heavy marketing budget, which would come with greater responsibility to make it flexibly rated.
It IS the parent's responsibility to monitor games use, but they need to be given the tools to adjust the game so it is more appropriate for the kids, because when a game is as culturally prevalent as MW 2, kids WILL play it, no matter what the age rating. As my nephews say frustratedly, 'All the best games are 18's though'.
radiothax on 20 Mar '10 said:
I’m glad then host and panel came at the discussion with such an open mind.
lwill on 20 Mar '10 said:
Before they've even said anything, you KNOW that Tim's the only normal human being on there.
Even the audience are mental, gasping and Tim's claims - they're not even that astonishing, by ANY stretch of the imagination!
Well done Tim though, how you didn't get up and slap that bitch round the face, I do not know. I guess that really wouldn't have helped the cause. He really kept his cool and gave some good answers, which I know most of us couldn't have managed to answer without appearing like we're in the wrong.
I'm still stunned how against Tim the audience was. My mum's pretty conservative, quite the Alan Tichmarsh fan herself, no way in hell would I see her actually GASPING at Tim. Get a grip! Sheesh . .
smascherano on 20 Mar '10 said:
Violent games should not get into the hands of children anyway and it's the Parent/Guardians fault if they do.
Films Promote Violence just as much, maybe even more so than games anyway. She talked about addiction, but look at how many kids sit around and watch TV anyway and look at some of the things they watch with their parents.
I have never wanted to go out and pay for Sex and after im done, shoot her and take the money.
But My cousin tried to throw her Dog out of the window, because she thought it could fly, after watching PETER f**king PAN!.
It gives you an indication on the back just like a film, of what it contains whether its, nudity/Sex or violence ect. So it should be advised to look at the back of the case, or find out more about the game before buying it, Like on CVG
i-am-from-space on 20 Mar '10 said:
so games arent allowed to do what books and films have been doing for a long time.
Steveman on 20 Mar '10 said:
A friend of mine covered my feelings pretty well "One of the most frustrating things is that I grew up with violent video games, and by these c****' logic, I should be a dysfunctional lunatic who rapes cars and steals old ladies."
munkynutz84 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Julie peasgood with an array of toys to shove in your fanny on daytime tv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQQnDYRR ... dundefined
Officer Dibble on 20 Mar '10 said:
Tim, you are a legend. Just a shame your words fell on deaf (and rather hostile) ears.
JordanTheBeast on 20 Mar '10 said:
Well Done Tim, but u just aswell of not bothered they were never going to listen.
Anyways im 15 am im sorry but there point of causing problems with behaivor or whatever nonsense they were talking about is esactly that. If anything i take my anger and stuff out on games like MW2. And that's another point that level they talk about clearly asks you as the beginning whether u want to play it.
Speciala on 20 Mar '10 said:
Why didnt they have a proper panel. The CVG knows what he is talking about and deserves to be there, but what do the other 2 have that qualifies them to speak on gaming. They have no knowledge of gaming and its effects people.
They should have put psycologists or people that might actually know what they are voicing their opions on.
This topic needs a balanced debate, not some daytime TV show watched my imbecilic housewives and the unemployed.
Jensonjet on 20 Mar '10 said:
ITV still making s**te programmes then?
A gardener, a journalist and woman so far removed from the subject matter, an insect probably has more insight into videogames. And these people are 'educating' old people and paranoid, out-of-touch (and no doubt) bad parents about a billion pound industry that provides entertainment for millions of people around the world.
Perhaps next week, on that pathetic show, they'll interview a frog about new discoveries in medicine, or perhaps a dead cat on the dangers of space travel.
Like the host and (I assume) most of his guests, I'm pretty clueless about many things... perhaps I should go on the programme and talk about an industry I know nothing of.
ChunkyMonkey on 20 Mar '10 said:
He tried his best and I agree with what he said.
Local gamestores are trying their best to reduce minors purchasing over 15 games - I walked in 2 years ago for GTA and asked to show my ID because I looked about 17, though I was 18.
Its silly that the other two never considered that it is also the parents' responsability to see or check what their children are playing in the next room, there could be also a slight chance that the parents' has also bought the damn game for their children to play.
Plus I've never had a thrill with action/gore games, it was more of being more intregued with the graphics and the storyline.
Addition to it, films are more possibly even more violent, these silly reporters and analysts just want to put the blame on Gaming because they are running out of stories and desires to fraustrate communities like CVG or any other gaming community.
The two arseholes had no idea what they were talking about incorrect research and sorry, do we really need to rely on numbers? So ending my rant, its full of s**t.
But you had a good try Tim, you kept it cool so respect. =)
logan13607 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Perhaps they would rather we went out on a saturday night,got p**sed,caused some agg and got locked up for the night.
No!!Kids should'nt get there hands on rated'm' games,but how many of us in our 30s played violent games when we were kids and turned out quite alright.
I loved splatterhouse when i was a kid,but when i finished,i didnt go wielding a meat cleaver or bat around.
S71NG3R on 20 Mar '10 said:
The problem is they read the papers and the papers never play these games. They just want you to buy their paper.
If I read the story on MW2s airport level before I had played the game I would have had nightmares. The funny part is what was written in the papers was more gory than the game. They forget just like the news a 4 year old can understand and be left alone with the news on the TV and the paper on the floor by dads chair.
This is the main problem the high and mighty types think they know it all. They don't need to play a game they know all about it from the paper and TV. The paper never lies when it says what you want to hear.
The main point to all this is it ends with the parents if they are not doing the job correctly. This is what starts and ends violence if someone has not learnt right from wrong. No TV, paper, Film, socialising and gaming will make someone go out and end someone's life they should know right from wrong already.
IbanezLewis on 20 Mar '10 said:
For those that didn't see on the other article, I was totally annoyed by this and wrote an angry rant on ITV's forum.
http://forums.itv.com/thread/918302.aspx
I wish there was something we could do to raise awareness about the maturity of games. Hopefully this would mean less jippy little kids on 18 rated multiplayer games...
basscadet on 20 Mar '10 said:
That Tim is smokin' hot.
StonecoldMC on 20 Mar '10 said:
Oh well, its official now. Games are cool!
People like Titchmarsh and the Blue Rinse Brigade have always looked for something to blame for corrupting the youth of the day.
If they see Gaming as a threat to children just like they did years ago with the likes of Elvis, The Stones and Sex Pistols then im all for it!!
meevil on 20 Mar '10 said:
People wonder why Games get such bad press, yet it's no wonder when they pit three completely ill informed... krunts against one educated proffesional. Well done for not strangling Julie Peasgood Tim. You're fantastic.
lashed on 20 Mar '10 said:
couple of other things, if there is going to be a serious debate about this then A Tits show is not really a good place to start a serious diuscussion, considering that David Cameron was interviewed on there i feel that his views may be a little biased.
The other point as well, is the interview starts off with 'you may know about the BAFTAs but what about for videogames?' then nothing in the interview is said about the BAFTAs. Just and all out assault on violence in video games.
Nothing is mentioned about the brillance of Games like Braid or Portal or even how Natal and the sony willy wand is going to change interation over the family games industry.
originalbadboy on 20 Mar '10 said:
Bloody idiots .......
I wont put anything here that has already been said ...
I will say this though ... Violent Films, TV, Video Games, Books etc are there because of the reflection of real life, not the other way round. We have violence in entertainment becuase we live in a violent world.
Maybe we should sort out the violence in the real world first before worrying about whats going on in the virtual world.
strickers on 20 Mar '10 said:
I thought Tim did really well in a Daily Mail style bigoted environment,full of the usual ignorance and stupidity from people like that.My favourite comment was the racism one.When has a videogame promoted it?I've never played one,and yes,I include Resi 5 in that.
funkymonkey18 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Yes, the heckling was quite bizarre.
l1nc on 20 Mar '10 said:
Same as always the older generation using games as a scapegoat. Films and TV are ok but were from that generation they don't fear it they understand it. But Games they don't understand so they fear them.
For example in the late 80's my dad would not let me play my Nes on his big Tv (he said it would damage it lol) but would watch video's all day long.
CVG should invite Alan and his army of ol fudddys to the cvg office and show them the amazing things that have come out of games like wii/fit, prof layton xbox live to name a few.
That woman on the other hand needs to wise up and realise that the violence problem kids have is from bad parenting and not from what form of entertainment they use.
My children are not violent in any way and both enjoy video games (under my supervision) on a regular occasion.
S71NG3R on 20 Mar '10 said:
This will add fuel to the fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldvLYLeGrk
No more blue movies in bed then ah well.
Triffic on 20 Mar '10 said:
The only way that Tim could have possibly won this argument on The Alan Titchmarsh show is if he presented actual proof that Princess Diana played Grand Theft Auto IV, Gandhi completed his tenth prestige on Modern Warfare 2 and that Jesus blew up Megaton in Fallout 3.
liquidphantom on 20 Mar '10 said:
What makes me laugh is that a vast majority of the audience is made up of parents that once the show is over will go out and buy Grand Theft Auto for little Jonny.
I my self had a massive shouting match with some woman who was buying GTA for her little kid, it's idiots like that, that have got us into this bad guy corner today.
Sarlix on 20 Mar '10 said:
This guy is the Sheriff of where I live, it's a complete farce.
edit: I didn't mean liquidphantom, I was talking about Alan Titface.
bazgil on 20 Mar '10 said:
I didn't know Alan Titchmarsh was that blind.
Oh wait...
Noobsaibot on 20 Mar '10 said:
I actually felt my intelligence drop while watching that (on Youtube BTW as we can't watch the ITV player in 'Southern' Ireland). Has Tim returned yet or has been telepathically lobotomized by the "intelligence" of that woman.
Miss_Wacy on 20 Mar '10 said:
silly fckin brass games promote "racisim" sexisim" someone please show these games that promote "racisim and sexisim"
geedle on 20 Mar '10 said:
Alan Tichmarsh, the gardener....And an audience full of o.a.p tory facists who'd like no more than all the younsters of the country to be shot at dawn. It makes me sick that these people can even think that the kids of today are that stupid that they'd play MW2 than want to gun down a shopping centre full of innocent people, they're comparing the kids of today to the kids of yesterday, who used to play with lead soldiers and sticks and hoops, times change, and so do the kids. (By the way I'm over 40 with 2 very respectful and well behaved kids, who love videogames, like mysef)
Adropacrich2 on 20 Mar '10 said:
Plenty of violent types out there that don't even play games or indeed have ever done so.Bad parenting is generally much more a problem here and lack of guidence
Iv'e played games from 9yo and 27 years onwards and i'm as gentle as a lamb
Violence comes from frustrations and a lack of knowing right from wrong.Frustrations are brought about by many past things and our choices in dealing with these types of situations is partly because of them
A shocking show of ignorance
darbo on 20 Mar '10 said:
My brain has hurt for many moons and it is the fault of games, i watched the show and from what i heard kids have adult games in their hands but the games ar 18 and not for kids, now stop me if i'm wrong but does this mean kids have 18 hands? i struggle with everyday life and it's bubsy the bobcats fault, if games are deforming our kids then games are wrong like the horny old dear said. Head. Hurts.
Colblair1 on 20 Mar '10 said:
"...if I'm speaking from the hip", loving Tim's sly use of gaming terminology there.
nicostorm on 20 Mar '10 said:
None of these people seemed gto grasp that all of these concerned parents are the ones at fault, for probably buying their kids the games in the first place!
Angiecrafts on 20 Mar '10 said:
Just wanted to add my support to Tim Ingham re. the appalling treatment he received on the Alan Titchmarsh show. I don't know a lot about video games (sorry!), but was disgusted at how Tim was treated. If any of you feel the need to vent your spleens further, there's a small thread going on the ITV Forum (http://forums.itv.com/918572/ShowThread.aspx#918572), and you can address complaints to:
Channel Television (the Channel 3 broadcast licensee appointed by ITV Net work to be responsible for the compliance of this particular programme) via feedback@channeltvlondon.co.uk or by telephone on 0207 633 9902.
B-dog on 20 Mar '10 said:
As a gamer, I might be ever so slightly in love with Tim for defending gaming with reasoned arguments, instead of the patronizing and hypercritical arguments of Kelvin and Julie (I'm not going to bother finding her name out, if she couldn't bother looking up the name of a game she was going to criticize on national TV).
However, if Titchmarsh spent a day in the store where I worked, he would see that 80% of parents don't care what their children buy. And I've spent far too many hours of my life explaining to people why their children shouldn't be playing Saints Row 2, due to the casual violence and ironic sexism. They buy it and then sound off to anyone who will listen (normally anyone at my store when they come back to complain they didn't realize the game has casual violence and ironic sexism) that games are turning little timmy into a monster.
Basically, our passion is being ruined by people who don't care that we enjoy something we can legally enjoy. And I didn't even say something remotely violent, go me!
newsinthefield on 20 Mar '10 said:
Absolutely ridiculous; games promote sexism, racism...homophobia...whatever that woman's argument was, I wasn't really paying attention. I'm pretty sure rock music promoted all that back when it was a thing of the Devil. Tim should have replied with a 'And can you name a game which features racism? A mainstream, marketed one? Can you name a game which features sexism?' That woman would have been left spluttering and lost for words. And from the start, come on! 'Call Of Duty 2: Modern Warfare'? I know the Alan Titchmarsh show is aimed at wasters sat at home halfway through the day but GET. YOUR. FACTS. STRAIGHT! (Hey, I'm pretty sure Julie would accuse me of homophobia for that last CAPS-rant.) And as for kids playing violent games - who cares? I'm 14 and play violent games such as GTA, BioShock, Fallout 3 and Saints Row 2 every day. I have asked my family if they think I am a depressive, violent maniac. Many of them said yes, but that's not concerning my gaming.
If Julie's point is accurate, then I'm going to buy myself a gun, head on down to the nearest Tesco and start blasting. Luckily, I'll have my 'gaming' ailment to blame for my spree and I'll probably undergo therapy for three months, under the pansy system of government Julie doubtlessly supports.
KMakawa on 20 Mar '10 said:
The fact that there was 3 people that have no clue within the industry, and one guy that does.
Shows that the whole event was totally biased and tv-junk at getting people to see "Oh look, games are bad.. this guy cant hold it up".
One guy against three is not only unfair, but totally biased. Especially as Alan (the host of the actual show) was jumping on the hate-games boat too.
The underlining problem with this, and for the world as an whole to be honest. Is that Parents do not give a toss if their kids play these games. It's getting them off the streets at night, thats all they see that is happening. They are the ones who are committing the illegal s**t, buying their kids 18-rated games is OBVIOUSLY going to have a negative effect on them. Its just common sense, You don't need a f**king analyst/experiment to provide that.
More adverts aimed directly to the parents will sort it out. Actually tell them what the effects an 18-rated game is having on a 13-year old boy.
If their kid is off the street and in their home. They dont give a monkeys.
Thats it!, simple as it gets.
Fair play to tim, though you probably knew before you even went on the show you wouldn't be getting a unbiased fight. :/
NaththeNarc on 20 Mar '10 said:
He said Left 4 Dead 2 as if it was a football score. Alan Titchmarsh in an unedjucated cnut. Yes that is spelt wrong, mainly because Titchdick is such a clown that he might read it correctly, or perhaps has dyslexia. CVG and Computer Games, We love you. Lets put it this way, if gamers had a fight with Alan Dickmarsh, who do you think would win both with fisticuffs and an intellectual arguement about the pros and cons of gaming.
fleeties on 20 Mar '10 said:
I loved the Black Hawk Down comeback!
KMakawa on 20 Mar '10 said:
I've emailed OFCOM, f**k ITV, or ChannelTVLondon.
This was not justified and almost a public-shaming of the Gaming industry and all the people who work for it. Including Tim Ingham.
Contacting OFCOM for a public inquiry will do much more damage then sending emails to a guy who will not probably forward them to the respective person in charge.
Im a games tester, and after viewing that damn video it was like the show was installing a front of shame onto the public for playing videogames. But also installing shame into every person who works on the games industry for producing these games.
The ratings team have their own private panel of judges who play the games, and also external judges too. They are tight in getting games classified. The parents are in the wrong doing for walking into videogame stores and buying their kids 18+ rated games. Not us for making them.
GOD DAMNIT.
newsinthefield on 20 Mar '10 said:
That woman spoke about Modern Warfare 2's 'No Russian' level as if she thought it was real people who had been killed. 'Do you know how much grief you caused the computerised object's close computerised objects?!' Ah well, at least Tim owned her with twin hammer blows of knowledge and reason, informing her wisely about the option to skip the level. Ah well, I've never seen that woman's self-righteous, arrogant face before and I'm never going to see it again - she's probably some washed-up TV personality who felt the need to attach herself to some diluted moral crusade as she felt her career slipping down the sink with the suds. If she's against 'violence for entertainment', what does she watch? Think about it - virtually every TV show/film you can name contains violence. Too bad people like her think all games are about murder and racial hate. I want to see her face blown up to epic proportions on a billboard - preferably in London somewhere - with the slogan 'I Know Nothing'. 'Cause, y'know, she doesn't.
tosss on 20 Mar '10 said:
Tim you have balls... going on the show knowing they are all ready to shoot you down... you held your ground and stuck to the relevant argument... they on the other hand are the defintion of retarded as when analyzing arguments yours kicks the s**t out of all of them... good work! peace out
Zabba 2 on 20 Mar '10 said:
I play lots of violent games.
I'm not an aggressive person.
I have high self esteem
I'm not corrupted by them.
I personally feel they have little valid argument. I work in a games shop and we're extremely strict on the age ratings on a game. I turned down at least 10 people today for games above the age they were.
It's the parents fault. Simple as that. The vast majority of the young children don't buy these games themselves, they can't, they either don't have the money or get refused. Parents/Guardians buy it for them. I know this from extended observation and experience from working. Ratings are there, right in front of them. Parents know the rating, hell, parents know the content on the games. The amount of times I've seen a mother purchase a copy of GTA and Gears of War and CoD etc, upon me asking if they're aware of the content in the games, they, no joke, 95% of the time will reply "Oh yes" and some even go onto say "yeah, he/she's got all the other ones"
And, okay, let's consider the purchasing phase is somehow out of the equation and now these games are in the household. Do parents never look at the TV, concerned at their children smiling gleefully as they shoot civilians on the game? Parents see their kids play these games. It is a fact. You can't honestly say that any parent will not once glance at the TV when a child is playing their console. Do the parents do anything about it? Most of the time no.
If parents were that bothered, the parental controls are available, the games ratings are there in full, with details on the sort of content.
So, in terms of younger children being subjected to this content, like 9-14 year olds, it's hilarious to see that the parents who are complaining are the ones who are actually responsible.
My argument is a little harder justify with older gamers, like 15-17 year olds, but surely at that age you should have enough sense to know what content you subject yourself to.
The games are never to blame. Only the people.
slick loose on 20 Mar '10 said:
",,,Call of Duty 2, Modern Warfare..." He says it like it's 2 different games (which they are, technically).
The whole segment was disgusting! I played 18 rated games when I was a kid, was it right? NO! Am I a violent racist? HELL NO!! The worst bit for me was watching Tim fighting an impossible fight...but I think he kept his cool BRILLIANTLY and should get an apology off ITV. They invited him there for his professional opinion only to ignore him completely and attack HIM because they dont like violence in video games!?
If enough of us complain, they would have to make a public comment and it most likely will be an apology. Having people criticise a media they nothing about and basically burn Tim alive EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A PERFECTLY GOOD ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING THEY THREW AT HIM!!!
That is ignorance at its highest level.
likes2spooge69 on 20 Mar '10 said:
blond one is a t**t
Miss_Wacy on 20 Mar '10 said:
naaah thats too much of a home truth for them, then the audience wouldnt be so quick to applaud and shout out as alot of em would be hypocrites, cos i can bet you now alot of em were s**ttin it that audience beggin for the "its the parents job to make sure" topic no too come up, i love how the other 2 side stepped wen the parent topic got brought up
Execute_Order66_ on 20 Mar '10 said:
Imagine how much life would such if that woman was your mum. Her kids probably have issues but she won't accept any blame herself so attacks games instead.
When Tim said he didn't have kids you could feel the entire audience go 'ahh of course...'.
Argh!
Desaima on 20 Mar '10 said:
The introduction was enough for me. The opening dialogue was disgustingly engineered against the industry.
juggalo4life on 20 Mar '10 said:
icp had the same old story about there music making people kill. if you kill your crazy in the 1st place. if people stop trying to blame games music or movies for what people do and start tryin to find ways to help stop the killings or violence maybe we wouldet have old hags like that b1tch talking out her ass. games make people violent BULLSH1T.
Hi im on 20 Mar '10 said:
"Games encourage Racism, sexism and horrific violence"
I mean What The F**K!?
Julie peasegood is an absolute Autist, she knows f**k all about the industry which is proving valuable for this country at the time. Sexism? How the f**k do they encourage that? Racism? Im sorry she's just sprouting s**t now. Horrific Violence is onlyin games like NGII.
The old bloke came across as nice, until i realsied he was the editor of the sun!
Bunch of old wankers! not even my nan would sprout this s**t and she's the most hardcore pacifist you'll meet!
Im only in my second year of teenageing and i know more than these blokes about Games, our country's history ect
Snakes in the grass!
BIGAL-1992 on 21 Mar '10 said:
I'm going to say this once and once only; what would a dildo expert, a gardener and a tabloid editor responsible for the 'Gotcha' headline and the lies about Hillsborough know about video games?
Azreil on 21 Mar '10 said:
No game has ever made me feel depressed/angry/suicidal/homicidal/racist (unless you count chickens as a race, bloody Zelda, I hate those chickens so much!) and yet that show managed it in the space of seven minutes! I wanted to kill Alan and the woman because I was angry, kill myself because I was depressed at the state this country and its television is in and I was already a racist because of the whole chicken thing (see above).
I’m totalled appalled by the level of ignorance in this country and not just concerning the computer games debate. Argument and debate can be a wonderful thing if it’s well researched and properly presented but this piece of complete crap that ITV call broadcasting is just disgusting.
Actually, I would say it’s unfair the other way. Tim was not only better prepared than them but he seemed to be the only who had prepared an argument at all. Plus there’s my sneaking suspicion that his IQ was higher than everyone else’s in the room. Combined.
I do have to say though, as much as I applaud your efforts to defend the games industry CVG, I wonder whether it needs defending. It seems to be doing pretty well in spite of these washed up celebrity idiots and bored middle-aged housewives.
I do agree however that the children-adult games debate needs to happen but only in a proper forum that includes receptive parents, government officials, rating boards and members of the games industry (notice I didn’t think ‘sex advisors’ were necessary) and only when discussed in conjunction with other forms of entertainment such as cinema, because at the moment, this very serious problem is being blamed on the games industry alone.
It’s always been the case (and always will be the case probably) that people don’t like to take responsibility for things that are clearly their fault. And I suspect that, if we were to have a serious discussion about this subject, we might find that a lot of the blame (though, to be fair, not all) actually lies with the parents.
Call me old fashioned but if you let your ten year old son play an 18 rated game, you are quite simply a bad parent. And no government legislation or daytime TV slanging match is going to change that. Spending two minutes with this generation of consoles would allow you to set up very simple and effective parental controls, which would scupper any attempt the little tyke makes to borrow Dead Space off his mate at school and sneak it home in his backpack.
But to be honest, this was never really about games in the first place for these people, was it? (Well, except Tim.) Instead, it was about some has-been TV show host going for sensationalist polemic for a slight increase in ratings, an actress-who-can’t-act-so-became-a-sex-advisor...person who just needs a little bit more attention to get her through the day and some guy who clearly just wandered into the wrong set and was too embarrassed to leave.
I love this country. I really do.
Anyway, I’m off to go and learn how to be racist by playing GTA. But which one? The one starring the African American, the one starring the Chinaman or the one starring the eastern European?
Lupe101 on 21 Mar '10 said:
er Tim...You did well buddy but don't fight ignorance with ignorance, It's not easy to buy the argument "you'll not see the sort of violence in games that you see in torture porn movies Like Saw" When I've just finished playing through Saw on the PC...
One point they left out though... In fact no one seems to bring it up. They say things like "modern warfare glorifys violence" but surely that depends on the gamers pre existing disposition towards violence. MW2 didn't make me think war was cool and sexy and glorious, it looked dirty, cold and nerve shredding. It's hardly an advert for violence.
Or Omaha Beach on MOH, One of the most violent levels of any game I've ever played, did anyone come out of that level thinking "wow, killing people is awesome !!"
jayson_90210 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Me too! It was when she got the round of applause that I couldn't stand it any longer.
RandyChimp on 21 Mar '10 said:
Argh, this s**t makes me so angry. They didn't let Tim get in a good point without telling the audience to f**king boo him! And they wouldn't listen to the reasonable answers he was giving. I've played videogames since I was 7 and I'm hardly a violent person. I'm more talk than action. And my cousin has been playing since he was 5, he's 12 now, he owns a ps3 and he constantly plays "Call Of Duty 2: Modern Warfare" (WTF?), he's not violent. Why can't idiotic people get it into their thick skulls that violence in our kids is a result of bad parenting?
madameye on 21 Mar '10 said:
Julie Peasgood "I am categorically against violence for entertainment"
So your past career was just a minor mistake sweetheart? Shakespeare is merely glorified Mills and Boon? But you've left the RSC behind now haven't you deary? Oh yes, now you've reached the heady heights of daytime TV 'Sex Expert' and you've got the whole video games industry 'sussed' with your OAP studio audience applauding your 'facts'.
Having said that, Tim was f**king useless as we can expect and to top it all off, it's from a two bit, s**t wank of a show hosted by everyone's favourite wet blanket: Alan 'Widow Twanky' Titchmarsh.
f**k me - is this what it's come to for front page video gaming news?
Triffic on 21 Mar '10 said:
From Ofcom's website.
Broadcasting Code:
These rules not only cover harm and offence, but also other areas like impartiality and accuracy, sponsorship and commercial references as well as fairness and privacy.
So, basically what i'm saying is... "Let's 'kin have 'em!!"
gideonseer on 21 Mar '10 said:
There are valid arguments on both sides but this wasn't the forum for a proper debate. Too little time and guests (Tim excepted) with inadequate gaming and other social knowledge. I do believe the woman said something like she is against "violence as entertainment in any form". Sorry missus, but you can't be taken seriously unless you include some serious qualifications, or else Tom and Jerry would be banned too. Anyway, I just can't take Alan Titchmarsh seriously so there ends my comment.
EternalSoul on 21 Mar '10 said:
I can't believe they had a debate about violent video games with a gardener,a geriatric who was trying his best but ultimately had no idea and a woman who is clearly too pumped up on her own hormones and smug moral superiority to think clearly. Jesus he might as well have the same arguement with Captain Planet, Dungeon Master and Wonder Woman for all the good it did him.
Drake121 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Why are people so lasy to blame games industry for violence in kids yes games can be violent and sometimes it can be extreme but if you cant take responsibility to be a decent parent and watch over your kids when watchin films and playin games then you have got no right to blame any industry for your mistakes.
I dont understand the argument of violence in games as with what tim ingham said there are a wealth of books out there with violence beyond imagination which you are required to picture in order to understand the story, I have seen plenty of horror movies that made me gross out or cringe and just thought there was no need for it and just because one game pushed the line slightly in the ethics of society which is laughable compared to the pain and suffering which is happening right now in the world that we just brush under the carpet.
If these people are stupid enough to make an argument of games theres now way they would win, the pursuit of games is a pursuit of what people are capable of creating, games are created for enjoyment nothing more and nothing less if the games boring it isent created, the increase of violence in games is because of society.
Games arnt the fuel of agression their a release and i would rather get rid of stress and anger playing a game than go down the pub get drunk and start a fight with a random person.
wombateer on 21 Mar '10 said:
I wrote this sometime back!
http://thegamesingredients.net/2009/11/gossipmonger-episode-1/
Just goes to show, some people would still rather live in the dark ages.
Bloody do good-ers.
adevow on 21 Mar '10 said:
To all posters
Please pass your comments on to: viewerservices@itv.com
and request a more balanced debate on videogames during primetime telly.
acey on 21 Mar '10 said:
Tim should have mentioned how boxing is considered entertainment and people in the ring are REALLY getting hurt yet knowone bats an eyelid.
Oh sorry, there I go using my brain again of corse the imaginary violence on the tv is far worse.
Eclipse Dj on 21 Mar '10 said:
The interesting thing for me watching it was seeing Tim (a supposed "racist, sexist and violent" man due to his "interaction" with video games) actually being the calmest, most rational and level headed person there!
The BAFTA's are a very prestigious award that have been around for over 60 years. Surely the fact that they have been acknowledging video games since 1998 goes to show how far the media has come and how seriously it is taken. Someone even said on the show that the average gamer is 33 yrs old - so why do these blinkered people still believe that gaming is just a children's past time, like playing with Lego and Barbie? When the BAFTA's award a 'Fellowship award' to Shigeru Miyamoto it is as poignant and significant as when Walt Disney was awarded an Academy Honorary Oscar back in 1931.
Legrasse on 21 Mar '10 said:
They completely ignored the point he was trying to make, because they're bent on blaming someone other than the parents who should be watching and moderating what their children are doing. Diversionary tactics to get a reaction from the crowd and justify their argument, even if it's flawed and inprecise.
Children should be monitored by their parents, they will get up to no good, that's what certification is for. Watching movies, reading books and even listening to music. Keeping a watchful eye si part of parenting. It seems that most parents pass off on their responsibilities and just blame everyone but themselves.
lashed on 21 Mar '10 said:
Just went to Ofcom and complained. I urge other people to do the same. This interview had me fuming.
Lithim on 21 Mar '10 said:
anyone else want to slap that blonde hag in the face with a hugh cock.
nicostorm on 21 Mar '10 said:
None of these people seemed gto grasp that all of these concerned parents are the ones at fault, for probably buying their kids the games in the first place!
Reegeee on 21 Mar '10 said:
I put off watching this cos I had a horrible feeling that Tim had tried to look cool and ended up making the industry look a bit childish.
I just watched it and that's not the case at all. Everyone in that building had already made their mind up and so Tim was on a hiding to nothing. He did a great job of not stooping to their level though and just telling them to go f**k themselves.
It actually shocks me how out of touch many of the older generation that work in the public eye are. I know the crowd where getting into it a bit, but I know plenty of older people who really don't think in that way.
You should have asked that blonde bird if she had a wii. I bet she does but they don't count that as videogames do they?
runadumb on 21 Mar '10 said:
Awesome beard. Respect
DaRockwilder1 on 21 Mar '10 said:
WOW! That is one misguided woman and that audience is full of clueless old farts.
bunneyo on 21 Mar '10 said:
the fact that they give the most boring tit on tv his own talk show is a winner! christ im pretty sure groundforce got better after he hung up his shovel!
Good effort though Tim son!
smiffy117 on 21 Mar '10 said:
life contains violence, sexism, racism etc. you only become part of these things if your parents allow you to.
Cazy008 on 21 Mar '10 said:
There shouldn't have even been a debate. The three there were oviously clueless about videogames and Tim didn't stand a chance of winning them over.
IbanezLewis on 21 Mar '10 said:
I'm really loving the potential uprising here
As well as posting on their forum, http://forums.itv.com/thread/918302.aspx I've contacted OFCOM with the same stuff. Let's see what happens 
I can really see this being the trigger for the gaming industry being brought to mainstream headlines, and maybe, just maybe, some actual discussion and advice to parents instead of parents just using gaming as a scapegoat for their lacking parental failings.
lashed on 21 Mar '10 said:
the other point i didnt agree with was when mckenzie mentioned about jon venables used to play violent games. as if the 2 were linked.
I think that linking a child killer with games brings up a whole diffrent political debate, more so in the social aspects of his area.
Most problem children come from a area where there is not much in the way of government support, or the familys are living in poverty. THATS THE PROBLEM NOT VIOLENT GAMES!
If the goverment tackled this and looked after people better then familys would unbreak 'BROKEN BRITIAN', not that i necessarly think that britian is broken, but more can always be done......
__SpUtNiK__ on 21 Mar '10 said:
It was a bit pointless if you ask me. The clucking hens that watch this show are absolutely incapable of thinking critically. The odds of you changing their collective minds in a 7 minute segment were nil.
At least you were accurate in your response. It could have gone a lot worse.
ricflair on 21 Mar '10 said:
I watched that whole clip and there wasn't one f**king gardening tip.
Titchmarsh needs to get back to his roots. Pun intended.
clonebassist87 on 21 Mar '10 said:
If anyone in the UK is upset by the show then I draw your attention to Ofcom ruling 5.1;
'News, in whatever form, must be reported with due accuracy and presented with due impartiality.'
If you want to complain about the show then do it here.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/
The Alan Titchmarsh Show
Broadcaster: ITV
RetroJB on 21 Mar '10 said:
Having myself just written an article for a gaming site with regards to some corners of our society and their often ill-informed attitude towards video games, it comes as no surprise that this wholly one-sided look at the industry came about; particularly on something as vacuous as the Alan Titchmarsh show.
Kudos to you, Tim. Even as your sound and well informed point of view was conviently swept under the carpet by Alan's other guests, (and a somewhat ignorant audience who we're clearly directed to boo and hiss at your ever word), I applaud your effort in standing your ground.
It's always worth remembering that Alan Titchmarsh and others like him will come and go. Video games will always be here.
hi0marc on 21 Mar '10 said:
Evil violent games dont make evil violent kids. Just the evil violent kids play violent games because they have no other release or anything else to relate to.
davelk on 21 Mar '10 said:
Why Tim Didnt turn around and attack them, e.g. ask them what expeirence do they have of video games , ask them to explain Ratings etc. i dont have childern so i dont proclaim to be an expert etc.So how did u get on this show to speak about a subject you dont have a clue about. And then ask how someone in their sixties can understand something they have zero expeirence of.
Finally turn around and say because you lack the will to understand a subject you are afraid of it and are scare mongering and it pain simple ignorant and you ou are playing to the masses with nothing to backup you arugement other than hot air and BS.
filth87 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Notice most of everyone against the games is over 50, the sooner as that generation die out the better.
stemac on 21 Mar '10 said:
Can't believe the utter lies presented in the programme especially by Kelvin MacKenzie.
Saying one of the Bulger killers, Jon Venables was "corrupted" by videogames was simply outrageous. There have been reports of him being influenced by the Child's Play movies, but not games.
Here are some of the games out in the year they committed the murders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_in_video_gaming
Can't see anything particularly dangerous there...
Kelvin MacKenzie was also the editor of The Sun newspaper when they published lies about the Hillsborough tragedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_Mac ... h_disaster
Wouldn't trust anything this vile man says.
Then Julie Peasgood, who starred in Brookside. Remember the soap that had storylines about a father raping his own daughter, who was then killed and buried under the patio... Not to mention all the murders, kidnappings, sieges etc.
She's also appeared in a horror film - House of the Long Shadows.
Doesn't seem to have a problem with violence when it's in TV programmes / films she's being paid to act in....
...and then Alan Titchmarsh practically saying that kids couldn't watch 18 films as they couldn't get in to the cinema, but games are available in the home. Good job nobody has invented 18+ DVDs then...
In all - total nonsense - shame the demographic who watch this cr@p are of an age that didn't grow up with games, or they'd be able to see this biased show for what it was.
matty2000uk on 21 Mar '10 said:
videos of idiots like this are more likely to push me to the edge and kill someone. Well done Tim for fighting what was always going to be a losing battle.
How many times did he have to mention about the fact that games are rated the same way as films and should not be in the hands of kids in the first place. If these idiots would admit this fact all they're other arguments fall down.
In a way I hope all the ignorant morons that would watch this and agree go home and smarten up on the games their kids are playing then they wont be able to blame the fact their kids are retarded on games.
Paul the sparky on 21 Mar '10 said:
''Lets come back in ten years to see if Kelvin's predictions come true''? Alan, my dirty little gardening friend, in ten years time, most of your audience will be pushing daisies
Modster79 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Good effort Tim, you answered back every question your way, I commend you for that, I really do.
That woman on the other hand seemed like she was there just to get cheers. She had no f'ing clue what she was talking about...
The other guy just wanted to stay out of it...
Anyway, nice try Tim
LeoLoka on 21 Mar '10 said:
Ok people, this topic really winds me up. The level of ignorance some people have regarding games is truly baffling, and this is yet another example of how misinformed people can really be. Tim - great job at fighting our corner.
It amazes me that people argue that video games make people violent. Take a little look at the history of the human race and I think you'll find that violence has been present from day one. We've been at war with ourselves for thousands of years, so how can violent games be blamed for violence in people today?
How much violence occurs in the world where video games has absolutely nothing to do with it? I really wish people would focus on real issues.
conceptwhite_fox on 21 Mar '10 said:
I just complained to OFCOM, here's what I said:
"On Friday 19th March 2010, The Alan Titchmarsh Show held a very one-sided discussion on 'violent video games'. They brought on Tim Ingham to discuss the matter, but all they did was disagree with all of his statements regarding the violence in video games. It was pretty clear from the off that Alan Titchmarsh & guests had very little knowledge of the subject at hand, and yet didn't take into account any valid points Tim mentioned. It was really disgraceful and I'm hoping Alan Titchmarsh apologizes on his show for the treatment of Tim Ingham."
Here's hoping everyone does the same...
sweatyBallacks on 21 Mar '10 said:
I really want to play that 'videogame nasty' ManHunt.
I've always been intrigued over just how violent that game really was. Wasn't the sequel banned indefinitely?
shadowsblaze on 21 Mar '10 said:
I've done the same aswell. Also stated that MacKenzie's statement regarding Venables being corrupted by video games were dismissed by the Home Office and the police during the murder investigation. ITV should have edited that comment out before it was aired due to it's inaccuracy.
shadowsblaze on 21 Mar '10 said:
No. Rockstar overturned it on appeal and was released on the Wii and Playstation 2 a couple of years ago. Didn't sell well though as far as I remember.
jacksaddiction on 21 Mar '10 said:
Just feel it necessary to say a big 'well done' to Tim. You handled yourself well and kept your cool. They did blurt out a few ridiculous comments.
badgerpog on 21 Mar '10 said:
He did brilliantly in the face of abject stupidity. Well done that man!
Mr S0L0 D0L0 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Hmm, my kid could play a game (age rated) or come home from school put on ITV and see that woman showing various sex toys.
You should have mentioned that games consoles have parental controls and can have time limits for their use set. It gets on my nerves that we as gamers have to defend our hobby to ill informed headline grabbers.
Mr S0L0 D0L0 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Hmm, my kid could play a game (age rated) or come home from school put on ITV and see that woman showing various sex toys.
You should have mentioned that games consoles have parental controls and can have time limits for their use set (Oh wait, you did but they didn't hear that did they?). It gets on my nerves that we as gamers have to defend our hobby to ill informed headline grabbers.
sinelinden on 21 Mar '10 said:
Superbly and calmly defended Tim. Congratulations on putting the absolutely valid points across so well in what was obviously an entirely uneducated and biased studio.
mangle on 21 Mar '10 said:
"But you can't stop them getting in to homes and putting a video on, but you can stop them at a cinema."
It seem Alan isn't aware we've had home video for 30 odd years...
Poor Tim
Treated like a freaking pantomime villain.
I was half expecting that woman to come out with "Won't you please think of the children!".
What a bunch of ignorant fools.
Using the Bulger killers as an example for children affected by video games?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the movie Childsplay that was the scapegoat for that?
Where do you think inspiration for these 'violent video games' come from?
Switch on the news, sweetheart, you'll see far more shocking images on there than you will in Call of Duty 2 Modern Warfare...
skezmyster on 21 Mar '10 said:
she was talking about the airport mission where you kill inocent people. But it gives you the option at the start of the game not to and if you look at it in contect.
Richy23 on 21 Mar '10 said:
I'll reply in short as most of the comments posted already satisfied me greatly and calmed the pent up anger I have after watching that tosh. Nothing but politically correct trash. Well done Tim and well articulated.
The level depth and thought put into all the posts on this subject prove to me that gamers are intelligent, passionate and very emotional when our pastime is attacked in such a one sided way. That stupid woman has no idea what she talking about. Who is she to mention about games?
I have been gaming for over 20 years and it has never affected me in any negative way. The level at which they were describing gaming was horrific. Ok yes some games are violent, but rightly so given the context of some of them. They are certainly not gratuitous, well perhaps GTA 4 is but I still love it. I think these people can't comprehend the full reasons why gaming is so popular when in their ancient generation they compare gaming to watching a Western? Pathetic.
Titcht**t, do one you ignorant c***
azz72 on 21 Mar '10 said:
The game industry is single handedly keeping this country alive in this economic downturn and it's just another cheap shot at finding a scapegoat for "violence" in our children
Hit the nail on the head there mate, and also about films not been interactive are'nt these 3D movies in some way interacting with the audience
azz72 on 21 Mar '10 said:
also as my missus has just pointed out is it appriote for these women on Dancing on Ice to be wearing suspenders to dance in, im sure young kids are watching
Deleuze on 21 Mar '10 said:
Firstly, I'd just like to share my sympathy with Tim. I can easily imagine that this may well have been a frustrating experience. I hope you have better luck in the future.
Secondly, I think it's a shame that most debates on television don't provide thoughtful, calm and rational debate. As with this debate, usually the guests get emotional and resort to attacking each other, they don't listen patiently to each other, and they make generalisations and assertions of factual statements that are in truth disguised arguments. I wish television debates would be chaired by someone intelligent, properly informed and able to lead a decent discussion or debate.
Thirdly, it is sad to see that once again videogames are not being discussed maturely but instead are being slandered, scapegoated and discussed unintelligently.
Lastly, I agree with the GameOverThinker on one point here: we, as gamers, journalists and so on, should be careful about who and which arguments we engage with. If people generalise, use rhetoric to mask arguments and speak from ignorance, then we should ignore them.
Thanks for listening to my opinion.
Jez7 on 21 Mar '10 said:
The woman went for cheap cheers from the Grandma audience who have eaten up all the Loose Women propaganda about video games converting children to Nazism and exploding babies.
The fact is that the further we stay away from these arguments, the better. There's no point jumping into an argument that is so one sided. But Tim, you did well. You were balanced, well-spoken and fair.
The real fact is that in times of an ailing economy and struggling businesses, the last thing we need to do is put locks and bans on things. If graphics ever get to the level of real life - which they will, possibly next gen, or the one after - then maybe there shoudl be something against using a wii-remote to slice a persons neck open... but what it that's trauma Centre? Such a massive argument.
Anyway, the woman was a tool. I hope someone teabags her,.
martinawatson on 21 Mar '10 said:
even Heather Mills !
roland82 on 21 Mar '10 said:
Well done Tim you fought our corner well.
LonePie on 22 Mar '10 said:
I raged. Can't post why right now because I'm too mad at the ignorance of those people.
JazzJ on 22 Mar '10 said:
Surely Tim knew he was in trouble when he sat down with the silver brigade. I'm also sure I heard someone from the audience shout a very confused and toothless "house!" at some point during that segment.
chunkyboymania on 22 Mar '10 said:
Right I've watched it about 8 times now and it doesn't get any better. I think everything has been said already but just wanted to say well done Tim you came across very well.
I think everyone who was offended by this should get involved and give ITV some s**t.
Sleepaphobic on 22 Mar '10 said:
Can't wait till the current older generation dies off (srry mom/dad
) so we don't have to put up with these ignorant douchebags anymore.
Saarlem Sanders on 22 Mar '10 said:
Obviously this isn't the first time I've seen ignorant people campaign against games because they don't understand and refuse to even try, but it's the first time I've seen it done with such a ridiculous amount of bias. Squashing my outrage for one second, I just wanted to congratulate you on how well you argued your points. Frankly I don't see how you could've done any better, which demonstrates just how unbalanced the panel and audience were. I don't think many gamers would've done very well at all arguing against Alan Titchmarsh who, let's face it, acts like he's been brought to life from a commemorative plate, and Ms Peasgood, who presents her preposterously dubious and utterly unfounded argument atop the moral foundation of sex advice novels. But hey, when a debate on games opens with the presenter incorrectly stating the title of the best-selling game of all time you've got to expect the worst.
WHERESMYMONKEY on 22 Mar '10 said:
Wow my brain just took a metaphorical sack beating.
You put up a damn good fight though. Shame that logic and reason rarely work against zealots and idiots.
evilvodkaman on 22 Mar '10 said:
Get back to gardening you short ar*ed little c*nt
dannybuoy on 22 Mar '10 said:
Call of Duty 2. Fcuk me, cutting edge Alan. Julie is a joke, she just about sums up ITV for me. She's also just saying sensational stuff to get applause from the audience. I'm going to be a parent this summer. When my child gets to an age when he/she can play games, I for one will monitor what they play. I think parents are more responsible than the kids here. The breakdown of the family unit means that parents spend less time with their kids and have no idea what they are up to. Common sense should prevail, shame that a majority of UK citizens seem to have none...
hairyearlobe on 22 Mar '10 said:
Come on!! I spat food out at this rubbish! How blind are the general public!! Age restrictions are there for a reason you dumb fu**in re*arded tw*ts!!!
I actually based my dissertation on this argument a couple of years ago. It drives me insane how parent's are blaming 18 rated games for their 10 year old's mental attitude.
I'm sorry you went on that show. It really pains me to see the reactions people were giving you.
Fu*k em. If they can't understand then fu*k em.
feedel on 22 Mar '10 said:
Good Job Tim!
In all honesty, without being sexist, 90% of that crowd that agreed with the sexism lady, were Female.
Games that get made are done so legally. There is no need to talk about ethics, as everyone decides to depict things in their own way. Quinten's crazy 88's scene in Kill bill Vol 1 was one of the most violent scene ever, Did that ever get a whole show based on it ? no. Just because games are interactive does not mean they promote violence, hate or sexism. The fact they are interactive just means that involve you in the narative that bit more.
tommygouldbourn on 22 Mar '10 said:
Wow this has a raised a few eyebrows in the cvg com!
All i can add is talk about trying to twist every word to get a round of applause from a few 70 something pensioners in the crowd waiting to get home and do some knitting!!
thats how easy it is to make something out of nothing.
acey on 22 Mar '10 said:
Just posted my complaint at ofcom and feel slightly better (assuming it doesn't get ignored).
That was the most articulate I have ever been though I wish they gave me more room to right cause I had more to add.
davidmhodgey on 22 Mar '10 said:
This made me angry. Then I thought, f**k it; these old fools will be dead soon anyway
adgr19 on 22 Mar '10 said:
how about a rating on titchmarches books they're filthy, like they've been written by a man in a trenchcoat. Julie peasgood (who is also filthy) was in a hammer horror film so she can't be all that against screen violence.
i thought you did well Tim, well done
G_R7 on 22 Mar '10 said:
What game was that blonde playing? It sounds like fun!
tuscan01 on 22 Mar '10 said:
Fortunately the video game industry is so big now that it really makes no difference what ill informed idiots on ITV have to say. The government won't mess around with an industry which makes money when they need every pound.
Dazzaroonie on 22 Mar '10 said:
Much respect to Tim for standing up to an entire room full of ignorant bigots. I would probably have walked out after that first round of applause!
Not even the repetition of simple facts (games have age certificates, games are rated, minors shouldn't be playing unsuitable games, etc) could cut through that wall of vitriol. It's always nice to see that we're able to have an intelligent debate and get to the heart of the matter, without resorting to sensational conjecture and back-patting to make us feel better.
Rundas on 22 Mar '10 said:
wow they continuously missed the point, mary whitehouse there in particular. theres nothing wrong with adult games as there is nothing wrong with adult films. kids shouldnt be playing violent games with 15 and 18 certificates and assuming the store clerk does his job properly it is the parents fault. maybe a generation of parents are trying to shift the blame for their own failures
freaky_seb on 22 Mar '10 said:
Dude, I hope you don't mind, I copied and pasted your statement and filed a complaint with ofcom as well.
I wrote an email to ITV last night too, forwarded it to CVG as well.
If you want to debate, go in with an open mind, if you go into a debate with your mind already made up and you are not open to discussion, it just turns in to a farce.
fazboy007 on 22 Mar '10 said:
Well this has certainly enranged everyone on here - with good reason..
The problem stems not with the argument, but with the show it was aired on. As most people on here have already pointed out, the verdict was made before Tim had chance to answer the first question. This daytime show caters for the senior generation who aren't interested in games, and base their opinions on things they read in newspapers when games get the blame for the latest shooting etc. I bet most of the audience have never played any of these games, so what gives them the right to pass judegment on them. Wouldn't it have been a better argument to let members of the audience actually play some of these games in the studio and them ask them for their opinions. You can't argue about something that you have never experienced yourself.
Zonf on 22 Mar '10 said:
Good work Tim.
NorthyMark2 on 22 Mar '10 said:
I have just made my comments to Channel television who take comments on this programme, and urged them to see this page.
In short, I found it unbalanced in terms of knowledge, audience and dialogue.
Mr Titchmarsh's lack of knowedge is astounding. For as long as I can remember, the BBFC has regulated video game classification. Mortal Kombat 2 was an 18 back in the mid 1990s, so for him not to know this undermines his position.
Ms Peasgood has clearly not played these games to understand how we relate to the stories, to characters, and how we gamers understand the concept of who we attack, who we defend. Left 4 Dead 2 for example, we battle hordes of those who have lost their humanity, we fight to preserve hope and life, not kill for the sake of it, we fight because we have to.
Mr McKenzie also displays a lack of knowledge, and my comments to Channel television included the fact that in effect this was 3 on 1 discussing, with an audience unsuitable for such a debate.
Never in this discussion by Mr Titchmarsh, Ms Peasgood or Mr Mckenzie praise the gaming industry for it's creativity, technological development and contribution to the economy and learning, or the awards from BAFTA.
CVG and others, I suggest a petition for an apology or at the least a more constructive debate on this programme as recompense with real gamers and advice on how to check content, maintaining a healthy game/work/life.
GunstarHeroX on 22 Mar '10 said:
Why are the idiots in the audience applauding ignorance?
Yes, I'm sure the two old fogies who don't even know what a video game is are far better informed on this issue than, I don't know, a video games journalist?
The woman is the worst though, she clearly has no idea what she is talking about, continuously taking things out of context and just speaking in sound bytes ("no violence for entertainment!") and of course the moronic audience laps it up.
A HERO EMERGES on 22 Mar '10 said:
you would of had a better chance of walking into old trafford on game day and convinced 80 thousand man utd supporters they should support liverpool or man city instead than convincing the older generation of people thats games are fun entertaining and are acceptable in todays society.
then again what were they doing themselfs in the 60's and 70's smokeing and taking anything they could, having sex with everything that moved and it was acceptable then, but violent games are wrong.
voodoo172 on 22 Mar '10 said:
This piece of television is absurd if taken in the context of a balanced argument/debate, where the other two guests have absolutley no idea about computer games in general - where preconceptions are their idea of evidence.
Also this 'debate' is based on the misconception that because everyone is entitled to their opinion this automatically means it is VALID. Wrong. True everyone may be entitled to an opinion but you wouldn't take an Astrophysicist's scientific opinion on the mechanics of the universe - Backed up with cold hard evidence - and then take Hill Billy Joe's opinion on the matter as fact when backed up with "'cus I think so." all in the name of being entitled to your opinion and "Balance".
I personally like the way that Titchmarsh suggests that video games are more violent than the spaghetti westerns of old; yes Alan, this may be true. However the spaghetti westerns of old actually incited racial hatred with their portrayal of native americans and african americans. Then the white americans were portrayed as the "good guys" for killing them when encroaching on land that had been inhabited by the natives for centuries. How is this not worse?
Actually Alan, I think your show is the personification of what is currently wrong with society. Old people.
shibling on 22 Mar '10 said:
I've played video game all my life!
I owned the likes of perfect dark when it was realised (I was 9).
I wouldn't expect my parents (if I were 9 now) to buy me the likes of gta 4 because they're not retarded and can see that it's quite different from the 18-rated games of the 90s.
However I still wasn't 18 when gta 4 came out and enjoyed beating up hookers on 3, vice city and san andreas when i was younger. I shot the innocents in MW2. Most of my collection has a 15 or 18 rating on them.
Despite all of that I have never had a criminal convictions. Never got a detention in school. Am studying law at university and have never wanted to be violent towards anyone.
That is until I heard the words coming out of that woman's voice.
So you tell me. what really causes violence in our youth?
azz72 on 22 Mar '10 said:
I to shall write a complaint tonight
conceptwhite_fox on 22 Mar '10 said:
No worries mate, I'm just happy to see that everyone seems to be doing something!
Dazzaroonie on 22 Mar '10 said:
Quite. And surely Titchmarsh should have been more impartial, given that he was the host. Instead of challenging both sides of the argument, he instead jumped on the bandwagon with the other two guests and proceeded to join in with the dressing down.
Frankly it's disgrace, and I'll also be sending a complaint to OFCOM.
azz72 on 22 Mar '10 said:
can anyone put up a link to the complaint page because i cant seem to find it
kendersrule on 22 Mar '10 said:
ITV complaints type malarkey can be found here: http://www.itv.com/contactus/dutyoffice ... fault.html
Have never seen such a disgusting display of bias in my life! Three against one FFS!
lashed on 22 Mar '10 said:
if anyone wants to leave comments google in itv forums titchmarsh.
the top link is a page to the forums, and there are 2 pages one entitled video games and violence and the other is titchmarsh had his day?
please post comments on them, as i feel itv need to listen to what backlash they have coming to them.
oh and the youtube viewings of that video is fantastic.....
conceptwhite_fox on 22 Mar '10 said:
For anyone who wants to complain, http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/?itemid=285269!!
Xavier WB on 23 Mar '10 said:
With Titchmarsh introducing this 'debate' with nothing but violent games mostly with warfare or Grand Theft Auto in the title this was only going to go one way. Horribly biased broadcasting and Julie was just horrible :S
Your arguments were sound and informative. But also fair play to Kelvin, he brought up that the average age for gamers is 33 and not just for kids. He came across as someone who was just worried about it as a form of media, not like Julie who just replied in uninformed sound bites while the audience lapped it up :S
Good job Tim
Zooplakton on 23 Mar '10 said:
I'm so incensed I don't know what to say. They laid you an ambush, Tim. The didn't even hear your arguments.
The worst of all was how the crowd applauded that blond %&*ch who has no idea of what she was talking about. Her pathetic pseudo-scientific 'proven link' was hilarious. She should be legally punished for making such wicked defamation of a collective and industry.
Oh my God, I'm so afraid people like that have the power to influence the ignorant masses.
apolloa on 23 Mar '10 said:
Oh my f**king god!!! It's made me feel ashamed to be British, to be associated with t**ts like that!! A gardener trying to interview a games industry spokesperson??!!! What next, Gordon Brown's special on loft insulation??
Jesus. Really speechless, and that womens website even has a section on sex tips!! Oh yeah, no one would fine that controversial, just fun eh?!
Christ, here I am, watched on news 24 during the Iraq invasion a lovely video of a guard being blown to pieces yet I'm not allowed to play an FPS
I'm actually disgusted and sick and tired of seeing the f**king war of the real world, the real life video game war of a real bomb dropping on real people.
Give me my PS3 and COD any f**king day of the week cause I can at least call it harmless fun that has no effect on me... watching people blown up on the BBC ... well.. that gets me annoyed at the news channel for showing no common sense decency at all.
Christ the world I live in today.................
And yes I DO switch the news off, because I really don't want to watch real soldiers dying but feel detached from it because it's presented in a nice news friendly way........
iammillsey on 23 Mar '10 said:
It was a completely pointless and seemingly obvious barrage of hate against an ever growing community.
What the hell is the point of discussing modern gaming on a programme where the life expectancy of the audience is the same as full fat milk.
So we can't compare games to movies because we can stop them going to the cinema? I have Sky with the movie channels which show 18 certificate films daily. But I've stopped my kids from watching them with 4 simple numbers. Consoles have parental control. Job done.
It is simply a case that parents are too relaxed to be concerned what their children are playing or watching. They just find it easier to let them get on with it. I bet half of the kids who play MW2 just got their mums to go and buy it, mums who are none the wiser to the content.
The simple truth is, in todays argumentative society, gaming will always be seen as childish, and therefore anything not suitable for children will be slammed.
freaky_seb on 23 Mar '10 said:
Yeah, think they may have opened a can of worms here!
I got a response from ITV regarding the complaint I emailed them, they forwarded it on to the production company responsible for the show and have 'acknowledged' my views.
Hopefully enough people will complain to OFCOM to get that sniveling weasel to apologies.
Chippit on 23 Mar '10 said:
A stroppy young lass named Peasgood
Said video games do no good
An argument spurred
Though frankly absurd
Hypocricy under her hood
But CVG's Ingham withstood
The assault as well as he could
Their ignorance countered
He made sure they heard
That games are misunderstood
Fox of Polar on 23 Mar '10 said:
Mister Tim is real trooper. I applaud his effort.
EddieStobart on 23 Mar '10 said:
It's a well known fact that despite her name and advertising contract for Birds Eye Peas Julie Peasgood hates peas. She's a total hypocrite.
When I say "fact", of course, it's just my opinion based upon little or no research. But given the opportunity to discuss this opinion with someone more knowledgeable in front of an audience who are unfamiliar with the subject but familiar with me I can stridently reiterate it knowing that the audience will be sympathetic to my point-of-view.
Like an opinion that human pheromones exists or that pigs' kidneys are an aphrodisiac. It doesn't matter if it is fact or not. You can get away with presenting it as fact if the audience and regulators of the medium are sufficiently ignorant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJgS07BfN0
The Bossman on 23 Mar '10 said:
I sent them this. I didn't swear at all either, surprisingly:
lashed on 23 Mar '10 said:
heres mine, not as in depth as above but punchy i feel.....
I feel that this programme was very heavly centered with out giving a fair view to all sides of the interview. Alan Titchmarsh had no idea what he was talking about and was reading from the autocue, julie peagood made claims that games were racist sexist and had no evidence or proof and it seemed the whole interview was geared at an industry that no person talking part in the show apart from Tim Ingham had an idea about. I feel that the whole interview was done to attack the industry in question, and to gain Alan Titchmarsh cheap viewing. I have never felt so disgusted about 5 minutes of television and feel that the interview should be looked at again, as all the answers Tim Ingham gave were fighting for the whole industry and he had both the presenter, the sexpert and the audience against him.
azz72 on 23 Mar '10 said:
just been checking the alan twitmarsh forum, i dont think this host or show really know what they ahve got themselves into
lashed on 24 Mar '10 said:
no, video games are bad and violent, but promoting sex toys and drink at a 5'o clock time when children are watching is ok.......strange.
Just bumped in to this report posted by someone else as well.....
http://www.gameset**tch.com/2010/03/the ... n_is_a.php
Te first paragraph is very intresting.......
brandon4games on 24 Mar '10 said:
These people don't have a clue regarding the "True Spirit of video games!" People just want to jump on the band wagon regarding Violence and it's "associated link!" with video games, which is not been linked to James Bulgar's murder or even the Manhunt debate. Video games don't and will NOT ever kill people, people kill people!
Tim Ingham my friend if you are reading this forum and are reading the support you have on CVG, facebook, twitter and other interactive forums out there in the internet world, can I say "You are not alone!" You are a man with millions of voices that cried "Foul play!" on Titchmarsh and the behaviour of ill-informed people that have no idea of the cutural aspects of video games. Even the games industry is becoming frustrated by not being listen to.
keelee7 on 24 Mar '10 said:
WOW!!!
WELL DONE GUYS!!
"get back to gardening you short a*** c***?" Surely personal attacks against the panel - most of which display a good deal of illiteracy - do nothing to support the public image of gamers?? Tim managed himself with a good deal of dignity and his defence of gamers purported that they are intelligent, mature, and responsible people. Then you guys get on here and squash that to peices. "julie I hope you reading this": written in this broken english it seems that you can neither read or write, (because, perhaps, you have never read a book?? because you spend all your free time on video games?? hmmm).
If you want to express concern at what you deem to be a myopic view of video games, surely a macho, verbally abusive and personal attack is the least effective method for communicating this?
I WISH YOU WOULD ALL GROW UP AND PROVE THE CRITICS WRONG, INSTEAD OF CONFORMING TO LADDISH "YOOF" STEREOTYPES AND MAKING COMPLETE FOOLS OF ANYBODY INTERESTED IN VIDEO GAMES!!
Perhaps Peasgood did voice a video game many years ago, but given that since that date games have become a lot more graphic, not to mention that we have suffered a decade of war, perhaps she has changed her mind? we are supposed to live in democratic society whereby we have freedom of speech, if Peasgood doesn't like video games or want to watch violent films she has the right to communicate these sentiments without being bullied in the media for it. If she makes sweeping statements based on incoherent evidence then it is up to us to counter those views with intelligent debate, not name-calling!
GOT IT??????
jeez. even my x-box is blushing with shame.
leonidas2704 on 24 Mar '10 said:
Well that certainly was dreadful now wasn't it? Kudos to Tim though for standing his ground against three very biased douchebags who failed to comprehend what he was trying to get across.
As many have said before me, it is the PARENTS who should be shown the importance of the age ratings for games. For christ sake there's two bloody industries certifying the games.
Also, as Tim stated, videogame stores are indeed strict when it comes to the selling of adult rated games to minors. The same however, cannot be said for the cinema. I've been able to get into 18 rated movies since the age of 14, but have never been able to purchase 18 rated games at that age.
Clueless people like the three idiots in the video (especially that cow Peasgood) clearly don't want to listen to reason.
But still, bravo Tim.
P.S. can someone link me the complaints page on ITV please.
boydieag on 24 Mar '10 said:
She did remind me of Karls mum from South Park....
almightybob on 24 Mar '10 said:
If you've had enough of the lies and hypocrisy like I have, we have a petition going about this over at Playstuff.net. If you're annoyed about it, pop in and sign up!
http://playstuff.net/showthread.php/2125-Petition-for-a-public-apology-from-The-Alan-Titchmarsh-Show-and-Julie-Peasgood?p=29179
Rens11 on 24 Mar '10 said:
Congrats to Tim, you handled all their false criticisms well, Its so frustrating to watch people with no knowledge of the genre get their facts so messed up and spurt a load of nonsense! as mentioned several times by yourself certain games are rated adult and should be played by adults just like films, the blame lies at the bad parents letting their children play adult games un supervised!
conceptwhite_fox on 24 Mar '10 said:
Are you a mole sent here from The Alan Titchmarsh forum by any chance?....Jeeez!
filth87 on 25 Mar '10 said:
No-one see the hypocracy? or are we all too illiterate to know what 'myopic' means... get off your f**king high horse you pretentious c*nt.
vdplex on 25 Mar '10 said:
This is my first time to the board, and perhaps last as I'm not an ardent gamer, but I wanted to post about the Titchmarsh clip I saw. Even if the woman wouldn't listen to him and kept spouting a blinkered view, I thought Tim dealt with it all fantastically. The thing that kept me watching was the cooling effect of his reason on the heat of the Daily Mail bile.
I really wish people wouldn't focus on violent games. I want games to be a more valid narrative form so more people will consider writing them, and we can get better games as a result.
icklenellierose on 25 Mar '10 said:
This got me so annoyed I had to air my feelings out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjesBqX7C3Y
One comment couldn't let me express how angry I was at this so a made a whole video!
stedman on 25 Mar '10 said:
This video made me feel sick and angry...
But thats what you want isnt it..make the video game fans angry so you can say ohhh loook we told you s, they are definatly more agressive!
Seriously the woman was so clueless it makes me sick. Alan was being an idiot with respect to trying to say theres certificates for films...well there is for games as well idiot. Kids under age cannot and shouldn't be able to buy games under the age restriction clearly visable on the boxes...exactly the same as dvds. If they do end up in the hands of minors then tis the parents fault for getting them the game or not monitoring the kids while gaming.
Theres vast amount of games for all kinds of people and it makes me sick that the thick audience clap a person who is so clueless to what the actualy situation is. Citing stupid reports , hwne the UK Byron report found no links or issues with violence in games.
I tip my hat to this guy, Tim you got alot of important facts off that clearly showed why games were not evil. i also felt for you having to put up with so much dribble between the other two guests, the host who is terrible and should go back tog ardening...and the auidence of older people who never got bought up with gaming and so anything new is bad. Infact older people hate all new technology so its quite obvious why games get so much hatred from the older generation.
Films are more graphically violent because its actually realistic and not virtual, enough of this intereactive rubbish, pushing buttons on a game doesnt make me more violent and wanna do violent things to people irl.
Altered Idol on 25 Mar '10 said:
I reacted with disgust at this clip of three ill-informed Z-listers trying to argue about a subject of which their knowledge would not be enough to fill a shot glass.
I applaud Tim for staying level headed and putting forward strong defence of games and gamers. I dont think I could have restrained myself quite as well if I were in the same situation.
Those who are so vehemently anti-games are those who have little or no experience of them. That alone should tell you all that you need to know. They are simply scare-mongering egotists and with regards to the politicians amongst them, are simply attention seeking power whores.
This has really annoyed me this has. Seen as though I am a player of violent video games, I suppose I should go out and slaughtered a dozen people with a chainsaw now.
Honest to god, it shakes my faith in humanity that people hold such ill-educated and dim-witted view.
errant82 on 26 Mar '10 said:
If you have a Facebook account, please join my group and show your support for Tim!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=102871059753379
If not, then make and account and join!
PlatinumSamusUK on 26 Mar '10 said:
Put simply, this is no more than an exercise in bear baiting. The panel have no balance, the crowd have no balance, and the level of misinformation being bandied about is simply appalling. The nature of a discussion is just thus; to discuss. When you haven't got a fair level of attack versus offence you've got a one-sided argument and a farce on your hands.
Ch3ckUr6 on 27 Mar '10 said:
Julie Peasgood had a set out at the start to be total one sided. The key facts that you choose to "try" and get across I believe were the right ones.
Only a small portion of games are actually violent, many are designed specifically for children.
Age restrictions are in place on thoughs games containing violence. ( I'm not quite sure what Alan was trying to get across about age restriction on games, If he is saying at PoS they are not followed then his argument is with the retailers(who are likely similar with DVD ratings), if it is with the Perants then his argument is with them (and where do you stop when you question someones Peranting ability?how would you enforce), not the producers who are the ones responsible for the content)
To be honest I think games to have a greater effect on everyone than movies. I know I play a game longer than I watch a movie and I get far more envolved with the game. This said I'm not about to go out and stab someone because I've done it in counterstrike, and the vast majority wouldn't. Just like the vast majority wouldn't tourcher someone because they saw it in SAW 36.
The defining point is that you have to be prepared for freedom of speech and freedom of expression, just because I don't likeJuliePeasgood because she offends me doesnt (unfortunaly) mean that she is banned from going on TV.
Morrin_g on 27 Mar '10 said:
Is it me or did Titchmarsh think call of duty 2 modern warefare were seperate games?
The audience were probably people who had no idea what they were talking about but cheered for that bird anyway (lose the personaltiy and I would!!)
and there probably the ones letting their kids play these games.
I played operation wolf when i was 3 and that was violent, wolfenstein when i was 13 and I turned out fine.
Well done Tim, every non daily mail reader agrees with you
DrRickDagless MD on 27 Mar '10 said:
I finally got round to watching that video and was astounded. The level of ignorance was frightening.
Sadly I watched this video after hearing about the incident at Victoria station in London and was completely depressed. I'm just waiting to see what game they blame for that.
Ignorance is the cause of societies problems. Tim looked like a liberal at a BNP rally.
After thinking about how we as a community discuss games it was quite refreshing to realise that the games industry is one of the mostly widely scrutinised mediums. Not by the main stream medium but ourselves. The level of opinion within games magazines, websites, forums, and just general conversation down the pub is incredible. To take an example GamesTM and Edge magazines have some of the most constructive critiques of any medium (you may not agree with what they say but you must admit they discuss games and their developers with and adult mind.) and goes to show that as an industry we take our responsibility of content seriously and when developers overstep that mark it is questioned by us gamers.
When the papers printed the names of the peadophiles (in their so called wisdom) and the lynch mobs decended to terrorise some guy who looks like one it seems that is fine. But show some violence in context of war in a video game and its the end of society as we know it. Games do affect people, they can have an influence on how you feel but they are not conditioning. Gossip rags and adverts have a much more influence over children and frankly the weak minded.
I have more contempt for journalists, tabloids, politicians and the ignorant celebs (who continue to miss the point that responsiblity for your life rests with the individual) than I ever will for games and developers.
Finally without wanting to go over old ground the parents are to blame. If I owned a gun, I wouldn't let my kid play with it, I don't let them play with swords, I don't let them watch our horror films, I don't let them watch that hidden porn film that I hide at the back of the wardrobe. So why would I let them play Gears of War 2? They can't buy cigs, they can't buy over 18 DVDs they can't buy alcohol and guess what they can't buy over 18 games. If they find a way to get hold of them well... 1)I think some good old fashions parenting skills would have to be relied on. 2)Thats what kids try to do (its what I tried) and 3)I'd be secretly pleased that they are growing up and pushing those boundries.
I would rather sit down with my child and expalin the ethical complexities within the Modern Warfare games than try to explain the nonsence writen in the Daliy Mail or any other tabloid for that matter. I would rather my child play Fallout 3 than read OK! magazine or watch Eastenders both of which I find far more corruptive and distasteful.
I keep saying it but life is about context. You find more context in games than in the tabloids, daytime TV or the news these days.
conceptwhite_fox on 27 Mar '10 said:
Official response from OFCOM:
Dear Mr (NAME)
The Alan Titchmarsh Show, ITV1,
19/03/2010, 17:00
Thank you for contacting us. We have noted your complaint about the perceived bias during a discussion regarding violent video games in the above programme. Whilst we are sorry this concerned you, having viewed this particular segment, I can now advise that we do not consider there are grounds to intervene.
Rule 5.5 of the Broadcasting Code states that “Due impartiality on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy must be preserved”. Discussions of such subjects in a programme (or a series as a whole) should therefore include a range of views. However, broadcasters do not have to apportion equal airtime to each perspective in order to achieve ‘due impartiality’. After all, participants in programmes will inevitably have varying levels of ability in expressing their point of view which may have an effect on the overall impression given.
As you identify, the discussion centred round the production of violent video games and their potential influence on children. We acknowledge that panellist Julie Peasgood was perhaps over-zealous when claiming that she was “categorically against violence for entertainment” but also note that editor of Computer and Videogames.com Tim Ingham had ample opportunity to defend his position, which he did with equal vigour. Indeed, he had the chance to speak first and responded articulately to Ms Peasgood’s challenges by emphasising that the game she identified was not in any way designed for children and that its BBFC ‘18’ rating meant that it had the same legal restriction as an ‘18’ film or DVD. Kevin MacKenzie supported this argument (albeit inadvertently) by saying the average age of a video gamer was 33.
Further, Mr Ingham named several games aimed at general use and added that letting children play violent games that were wholly not intended for them was a matter for parents.
We appreciate your strong objection and recognise that Mr Ingham was outnumbered in this instance, but in view of Mr Ingham’s considered responses, we do not believe audiences would generally perceive the programme itself to advocate the prohibition of violent video games. Therefore, we do not feel regulatory action is warranted.
Thank you for taking the trouble to contact us. It is important for us to know what the audience thinks, even though on this occasion we have not upheld your complaint.
Yours sincerely
(SIGNATURE)
Steve Turner
Ofcom Broadcasting Team
theSTRAWDoG on 27 Mar '10 said:
Tim deserves a medal,maybe a purple heart?
he must have known he was in for a hard time.
these people are so clueless,i am 37 and myself and a lot of my friends have been playing games since the days of the ZX81.To my knowledge none of us have been locked up for being depressed psychopathic killers,in fact some of us have gone on to hold prestigious jobs (at team 17,sony, infinity ward etc)in an industry that is now as large as the film industry.
The only consolation is that if we did revisit this discussion on this show in 10 years,the demographic will have moved on so much,maybe even some of the audience will know what an 'xbox' is.
-once again,well done tim to for accepting such a tough live 'discussion'
DeathStalker80 on 28 Mar '10 said:
Beware everyone I am a sexed crazed killer, and im gonna...................
hold on...........
wait a sec let me just turn my PS3 off..............
Hello my name is Simon, im 29 years old, i have a 7 year old daughter, im happily married, have a degree in Computer Science, and I have been working pretty much since i was 16 years old......ah yeh and i have been playing video games for 25 years.
Is there something wrong with this statement?? Seems so according to these "experts" anyways i dont exists, i cant exists, if they ever meet me in the streets their heads would explode.
Shall we make it even worse for them. I have played ever violent game there is going! From King Pin to Mortal Kombat to God of War 3, and guess what I have NEVER pulled the eye ball out of a Cyclops once......no no its true i tell you not once!
Guess what, i take my daughter to school most mornings. I go to work. I often read books, and go to the cinema. Christ i even find time to go out and play hockey 3 times a week. And all this while being a depressed sex maniac. Ok I will let you into a little secret, I do shout at the TV and sometimes get very angry.............but have you seen the refs in the premiership these days all biased the lot of them.......oh where was I........
Well done Tim, job well done but a shame it was just to a bunch of idiots who had no comprehension about what you were saying or the problems involved today within the industry.
PS Just to really scare the crap out of these guys now - I used to be in the cadets when i was younger, and I have been trained to shoot weapons........so am i just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.....cos well come on I have played counter strike?!?!
smurfncoke on 28 Mar '10 said:
A snippet from the OFCOM response :
"participants in programmes will inevitably have varying levels of ability in expressing their point of view"
It's just a pity that the budget on this show did not extend to finding 2 people who had ANY notion about the topic they were discussing and not just 2 rabble-rousers riding the anti-game bandwagon...
The only good thing about this discussion was the way you handled yourself Tim.
Well done that man.
shuggybarr on 28 Mar '10 said:
Well done Tim. You were always onto plums with tw@ts like that - you definitely came out on top though.
I thought it was reprehensible that McKenzie brought up Jamie Bulger.
And as for that dippy cow sitting beside you - don't get me started!!!!!1
lashed on 29 Mar '10 said:
everybody on this site is a gamer for a good amount of years. and everybody on this site knows that you do not use a console to babysit your kids. the responsibiltity of parenting is down to te parents not with the games console.
parents who never got in to gaming are more to blame with the console babysitting the kids as they dont know what subjects games bring up now.
I too had a response from ofcom exactly as the one printed above, and as muc as i didnt like the response i have to agree with it. Tim Ingham got every answer and response spot on, but one thing in the letter stuck in my mind. Zealots.
what i would like to know also with 25 years of gaming under my belt, is why do parents and gamers hav be persecuted because of the people who dont take note of the bbfc ratings?
lashed on 29 Mar '10 said:
oh one other thing to note as well, on the titmarsh forums, people take anger to the fact that the titmarsh show promotes drinking and sexual promiscuity.
all at a time when children coming home from school can watch. should we blame all of the teenage drinking and teenage pregencies on this show, or would that just make us as bad?
venom1982 on 30 Mar '10 said:
I say this every time the argument is raised wether it be music games or films people in general are not made insane by what they see or hear from a fictional source. The games we play and the music we listen too and the films we watch we do so for entertainment thats it. The arguements that were thrown around on the titmarsh show were ridiculous by definition if we cut all violent games and music and films from the market no more murders and other vicious and horrible things will ever happen. Now it seems to me and I could be completely mistaken here but there were and I know this is gonna shock people out there but there were murders and horrible and violent acts before video games and violent movies were even thought up. But unless I am very much mistaken jack the ripper never got to play GTA and still he killed people with complete disregard charles manson did playing space invaders or pong tip him over the edge? no I did not think so. I also have to say bringing up the james bulger murder was in poor tatse and was just another journalists attempt to sensationalise something that had nothing to do with thediscussion at hand because they could think of no actual valid point to fight back with. If they are so concerned with violence in the kids view they should get off there lazy arses and get the parents up and do something with there children instead of buying a console and inappropriate games for there 10 year olds to do there baby sitting for them. I dont think that all people in the world should be punished because parents now seem to think that a console is the best way to keep there children quiet so they can live there lives like they did before they had the kids. But the point which makes all others so laughable is that there is no restriction what so ever on literature and some of the things I have read over the years which are readily avalible in all the bookshops are far worse than anything I have seen on any screen in a game or movie So what is next censor those too well if that is the next step then they better stop teaching history in schools as it is all made up of violent conflicts and millions of deaths. Obviously they would prefer we all lay down in a coffin now never go out and saw or experienced anything again unless it makes them some money the greedy pigs of mass public and one sided oppinion
G1x3r on 3 Apr '10 said:
I have been playing videos games since for near on 25yrs+,, I have played all manner of games from your FPS to your MMRPG, It does rattle that we have z list celebrities jumping on a topic that has been brought up more than Paris Hilton's dinner. I'm a massive GTA fan but not once have I felt like doing any of the stuff you can get up to in the game in the real world, I know the difference between real and fantasy.
As stated games have ratings just like films so it should be down to the parent or guardian to prevent their children from playing them.
But just to add to the pot, how people used to watch the good old martial art films or knows somebody that watches them and they have gone and brought the weapons that are used in the films because they look good, and how many people that watched these movies and have gone into the town and started fighting, thinking they can do the same as they saw on the movie, there are properly more acts of crime from people influenced from movies than games. noth said.
Susano on 7 Apr '10 said:
I cant helping laughing at this. Blue shell those anti-gamers!