Nintendo's Bill Trinen has explained why Nintendo consoles, including 3DS, don't have an equivalent of the Xbox 360's achievement points system. According to Trinen, exploration in games is more important than obtaining mythical rewards.
While Nintendo's marketing man told Kotaku that the company isn't opposed to achievements, he went on to make the case against them.
He added: "Basically, the way the games are designed is they're designed for you to explore the game yourself and have this sense of discovery. To that end, I think that when you look specifically at games from EAD [the group long led by Mario and Donkey Kong creator Shigeru Miyamoto] and a lot of other games that Nintendo has developed as well, there are things you can do in the game that will result in some sort of reward or unexpected surprise.
"In my mind, that really encourages the sense of exploration rather than the sense of 'If I do that, I'm going to get some sort of artificial point or score that's going to make me feel better that I got this.' And that, to me, is I think more compelling."
Nintendo 3DS will be released in the UK on 25 March. According to Nintendo UK's David Yarnton, hardcore gamers will be blown away by it.
Comments
19 comments so far...
MutilateTheDead on 24 Jan '11 said:
Achievements add depth to a game, sort it out nintendo, they're an excuse to play games on harder difficultys so you don't seem like a wimp to your mates, and they're evidence!
AussieCrysis on 24 Jan '11 said:
I personally don't give a flying f**k about trophies/achievements, but i know millions of others do, so Step Your Game Up Nintendo.
Athrun888 on 24 Jan '11 said:
I completely agree with Nintendo, I'd much rather figure stuff out then go through a checklist that effectively tells you how to 100% the game.
I'd also point out that I actually feel achievements/trophy's are, to a certain degree, resulting in lazy productions (there are, of course, exceptions), but for the most part it seems most devs nowadays instead of creating actual post-game content are instead creating lists for the player to complete, personally I'd take the "set your own goals" mentality of Nintendo to the "have you completed this list?" mentality of most games on the hd consoles.
mfnick on 24 Jan '11 said:
Guess this means they wont be on their next console either. Gutted
I really like Trochievements.
Mark240473 on 24 Jan '11 said:
In my eyes, trophies and achievements are a way of competing with those on your friends list who are playing the same game.
If Nintendo had a similar system (which they should) then Mario Galaxy fans could, for instance, compare how many stars (or coins) each had collected. It's almost another way to compete with friends online, without actually playing together.
I've had loads of messages from friends asking how I'd collected certain trophies - and I've sent messages asking the same questions too. It's just a bit of fun and an extra challenge to go for if your really into a game.
Also, I'm sure that Ninty could also create some pretty imaginative achievements too.
Oh well.
DarkIcy on 24 Jan '11 said:
I don't like them they just bug me mainly when you get them for doing nothing but playing the game!
In gta4 you get one for stealing a car your going to do that why give you a pat on the head for that!
In fifa you get one for scoring a goal the game is about football that's is crazy!
I wouldn't mind getting them for hard stuff but to many 360 owners brag i have this many thousand gamer score and played my little pony to get some easy points! They are worthless little rewards that are meant to make you feel better and condition you in to playing games and keeping up with your friends so buy more games.
So be good little boy's and girl's keep trying to get a bigger score it means so much
Ps in fifa11 you get a reward for going to the online store so if that doesn't convince you its just marketing nothing will
KippDynamite on 24 Jan '11 said:
I can see where he is coming from but I think that this is a big mistake. He speaks some truth, however - I liked trying to unlock stuff in Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the sake of the game, not for trophies. However, there is a nice sense in having your gaming accomplishments aggregated.
The Uncharted games handle the situation well - they have in-game rewards and unlocks, and the trophies simply coincide with them. That way you are unlocking things for the games sake and there is a permanent record of it as well.
Augustus_aka_AG on 24 Jan '11 said:
Trophies/Achievements add lifespan to just about any game. There are plenty of titles I have continued playing, because I enjoy the challenge of obtaining trophies in a game that I have already completed.
paulhudd on 24 Jan '11 said:
exploration bla bla bla, I dont play my wii nor playstation as much as I am into my achievements, I had my ps3 first but then bought an xbox and found out about the achievements and then about a years later sony done the trohies, I thought too little too late. was well into my 1000s on my gamerscore by then. the achievements are my fav thing about this gen. I'd love it if Nintendo jumped into bed with MS and use their live system. cross platform gamertags and chat, and even some games would be amazing. it'll have to be next gen now but I would love all three consoles, PC, and all handhelds to adopt the LIVE system WITH achievements. need to get a windows 7 phone for even more achievements
Achievements can be boring like ppl have mentioned, score a goal, hurrah, achievement, those are wasted, I prefer "completing the game" achievements, dif ones for dif difficulties, and achievements that make u do stuff u wouldnt normally do under regular circumstances, perfect example, GTA 4,I got the one which is do 5 car rolls in a singles crash, much harder than you might think and was thoroughly joyful in obtaining, (spiffing choice of words there) and I now have proof I have done it. the other type of achievement I love but rarely see, is 100% complete a game, as in, do everything there is to offer, own everything, buy everything, unlock everything etc.
Mario galaxy would be ace with achievements, showing that u got EVERY star would be cool to show off. I'm expecting ninty will adopt them but I put my money on that they call them "Badges"
roxcolin on 24 Jan '11 said:
well i for one hate achievements, yes they do give games longer lifespan, but you can then over play a game again and again just for one poxy trophy or achievement,you end up cursing the game you once loved, its one of the reasons i got rid of my ps3 and 360, games should be about fun, the trouble with trophys/achievements is many people, like myself dont play online much, and as many trophies are ment for online use, games are never completed 100%, it should be seperated in some way, and so many trophies/achievements are pointless, i really hope nintendo stay well clear of these and carry on the way they are,
boskersrevenge on 24 Jan '11 said:
I've always maintained that if there was any reason to them, I would care but in some games you'll have them thrown at you with others, stingy as all hell.
Then you look at the list of games people have played and often you'll see a bunch of cheap crap people have played just to get their score up.
Lame.
mfnick on 24 Jan '11 said:
To people that hate them - you can just ignore them. Whats the problem? & if you're a dirty Achievement whore that will play any old s**te or do the really tedious stuff just to get a few points which then makes you hate the game, surely thats your problem. If you're not enjoying it, stop.
@ Bosk - while you're right. The overall score is a load of s**t. I think they are great to look at for individual games. If im playing something, at the quick press of a guide button I can check who else has the same game & how far they are into it or what incredible feats they may have pulled off. If I want I can try & beat their score in it too. Plus I received a load of message from people on my FL congratulating me for my 100% Achievement in SMB or the Marathon one in Trials. It may sound stupid but I freaking loved that. & it was so satisfying getting them.
Achievements have made me replay games I may have just shoved to the side otherwise too. COD4 was the first game that made me really appreciate achievements. I played that on Veteran for achievements & actually ended up loving the game even more than I did before. The same has just recently happened with GoW 3. I would have replayed that anyway but for the trophy I decided to do it on hard & found the game was even better played on that difficulty. These are things I just wouldnt have felt inclined to do before this gen.
Then theres just the fact you have a permenant record of all games played & what you've 'achieved' in each game to look back on or show off anytime you want tied to your profile. I think thats great.
What annoys me most about this is you just know Nintendo will eventually adopt this system. They've always been like this "carts are better than discs", "gamers dont care about online", "we're not using DVDs for our games" etc. Eventually they cave & adopt these things. But then they're alreday out of date with it so its never as good as hoped.
I wish for once theyd just stop being so backwards. Like it or not, Achievements are here to stay & they will one day have their version of them. The earlier they build it into their consoles - along with 1 ID across all Nintendo platforms (with a proper tag instead of a string of numbers too) - the better.
plain_kloz_cop on 24 Jan '11 said:
Achievements are the gaming industries Bovril. You cannot take the middle ground. I hate them myself because, as Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw once pointed out, they break the atmosphere of moodier games. Just wait until you start playing Dead Space 2 and you'll see what I mean. It's cheap and vulgar like a 50p whore.
As for online gaming...? Well, if anything is guaranteed to bring out cheating little s**ts with egos, it's a chance to wag one's willy for the motherland. I mean come on, CVG has put up articles, on more than one occasion, showing that most of us absolutely hate playing against some screaming little b**ch from Massachusetts after he nail-guns your ass for the 50th time in a row. Trophies give such a crummy, thin veneer for context to that bo**ox.
I have been gaming for long enough to know that after I finished a game I came back, not to prove something to a t**t in the next county, rather for the simple love of the game. I know there's some parallel here for the state of modern football but f**k it, I'm done.
Balladeer on 24 Jan '11 said:
I'd like to have achievements, 'cause I like shinies. Then again, I'd rather they didn't pop up on-screen, at least not in all games. I'd like to be able to go back to the menu after a good gaming session and see whether I'd earned anything. Trouble is, I'd do this incessantly until it annoyed even me.
Anyway, I don't see why games can't have achievements. What's to stop developers including unofficial ones? Hell, even Nintendo included something similar for Wii Sports Resort.
mfnick on 24 Jan '11 said:
You do know you can turn the pop ups off dont you? Thats what I do when im playing games like Dead Space.
Which is even more confusing as to why they dont do it properly. & you still cant compare them to your mates either since they are in game. Thats a lot of the appeal for me.
Balladeer on 24 Jan '11 said:
No, I didn't - never played an XBox, y'see. And I don't have any problem with "comparing them to your mates" - that's what fora are for.
lukesoad on 25 Jan '11 said:
Ever thought about the younger generation or the casual gamers, who may also like to collect achievments? As long as it's not a large amount of gamerscore I don't see your problem. Gaining 5g for stealing a car for the first time could be the taste needed to get people aiming for the more rewarding achievments.
The_Jaster on 25 Jan '11 said:
^This.
boskersrevenge on 25 Jan '11 said:
I totally get you, I really do and if they work, then great.
It's just my experience of them is that 1. indeed the overall number is pish and means nothing if even one of your games was got for the points and/or (usually 'and'), a large portion of your points are from on-line multi player and 2. they ask you to do something just plain stupid that either requires no skill, just time or create something mind-numbingly stupid hard that it comes down to luck more than skill.
I gave up pretty quickly when I realised that whether it's on Xbox or PS, the vast majority of the numbers have little meaning.
Foamy the Squirrel says it best... NSFW, contains swears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1A-Ymf1VYY
lol.... Foamy...
Anyway, while I like the little thing going "poing", I have very rarely actually looked at the list of achievements thinking "ooh, I really must do that...."
Nintendo not having them? Good! They don't need to be on everything and really, people who can find the "poing" intrusive, like seeing when a friend comes on line, you cannot decide what to turn off. Unless something has changed? I would like to see when I get a game invite and a PM, without having to see who is updating a game (they're coming on and off-line, just to p**s you off
) and the fact that you've just taken a picture of your 50th zombie.
Achievements are largely unimaginative and for the sake of it.