Sony confirmed this week that it has already begun PlayStation 4 development, but has said that post-PS3 hardware projects won't be granted the same level of investment as the costly current-gen console.
The company spent many, many millions designing the PS3's Cell processor and its own semi conductor facilities, and Sony chief financial officer Masaru Kato told investors (via Andriasang): "It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3."
Kato said the main factor in the PlayStation division's losses in prior years had been the big difference in the PS3's retail price and the cost to manufacture the system.
Comments
54 comments so far...
JakeyBaby on 27 May '11 said:
It will make sense not to add barely used features, that when removed introduce bottom feeding lawsuits. Overkill bit Sony in the bum big time. They better not make that mistake again... But then again, this is Sony haha!
Just give a a basic console designed specifically to be a powerhouse in gaming, movies, and music.
Asinine on 27 May '11 said:
Fudge that, I have had had most consoles and I love core gaming and that is obviously what we're all interested in, but I love the fact that my PS3 is my home entertainment hub capable of all and sundry and long may the tradition continue into the next iteration.
But reduced cost could quite mean that they will be using the existing core architecture for the PS4 as the majority of the development into Cell is already done and could simply be built on for the next model, not that they will be cutting functionality.
LEEROY_UK1 on 27 May '11 said:
Hmmm The new consoles are going to be weak even in comparison with todays PC's me thinks, The economy wont allow MS or Sony to produce high spec consoles sold at a huge loss like has been the norm in the past.
I mean even in 2 years a gtx590 (derivative of) is still going tobe £200 which would be far too expensive for just one component if they want the machine to launch at less than £300.
pRM8 on 27 May '11 said:
Costs will also be down considering that BR technology is/will be a lot cheaper than when the PS3 was being developed.
Apart from maybe implimenting motion tech into the console itself which I don't think will happen there really is no new major tech that isnt just an upgrade from this gen.
They should really spend some money on designing a new controller though, the 'duelshock' design was old before the PS3 was even out. There is no way the can get away with the same design yet again surely?
ensabahnur on 27 May '11 said:
Does this mean we won't have to get 2 jobs to afford the next gen? I guess the trade off is the PS4 won't instill discipline in children and adults alike? Oh wait the PS3 never did that eh?
boskersrevenge on 27 May '11 said:
Agree with universal comments about reusing tech bringing the costs down.
Might make the PS3 look like an expensive stop-gap, though.
meh2allfanboys on 27 May '11 said:
Sweet i hope this is the case in the retail price aswell because the old 60gb fat ps3 WAS NOT worth the £425 it launched at even if it was backwards compatible.
ensabahnur on 27 May '11 said:
Doubt it, just cause its cheaper to make doesn't make it cheaper to buy. Launch day prices will still be high because people will still mindlessly (and hey i've been guilty of this myself) go buy it making the company extra profit then they can drop the price after 6 months and see another swell in sales.
And i ain't just painting Sony with that brush before someone says the inevitable "but MS do the same".
monty_79 on 27 May '11 said:
These comments really swung me to buying an xbox. I'm still offended by these and i believe Sony has yet to apologise.
In your face, Ken. You can stick your discipline and 2nd job where the sun don't shine.. and I'm not talking about the sea in Final Fantasy 7 where you find the white materia and fight emerald weapon.
buffig on 27 May '11 said:
A couple of 32 SPU Cells with 8gb of ram wouldnt cost much to develop compared to the PS3 and would be quite welcome. How much it would cost to buy is another matter
fps_d0minat0r on 27 May '11 said:
whats the point? thats what differentiated playstation...their hardware was specially created rather than picked off the shelves like other systems.
oh well...they still have interesting patents like the upgradeable GPU and 2 player local MP on 1 tv without splitting it via 3d.
but i really wanted a quad-cell processor just because it sounds epic =(
metallicorphan on 27 May '11 said:
good,maybe it wont cost me £425 on launch
yourmumwasfun on 27 May '11 said:
They should do two models. Simple, capable of gaming only and premium one, for those who wants all the extras.
damianwhitley on 27 May '11 said:
Actually, if i'm not mistaken, this will be the first time that Sony hasn't changed optical formats between consoles.
PS1 - CD
PS2 - DVD
PS3 - BR
PS4 - BR?
prof_crunchy on 27 May '11 said:
I wonder what kind of cooling system would be needed to run 4 cell processors in one box? my ps3 overheats enough as it is.
groble on 27 May '11 said:
I don't think I've got my moneys worth out of my PS3, it's barely ever turned on.
so the thought of Sony jumping ship to a new console and leaving me with an even more useless gaming machine which no longer has games being made for it does not fill me with joy
yourmumwasfun on 27 May '11 said:
A happy wii owner maybe?
svd_grasshopper on 27 May '11 said:
it will be an updated BR player. heard they were working on 500GB discs or whatever it was. plenty anyway... and make it a bit speedier and it will be ideal.
no need for another format is BR holds more than enough.
MS will be forced to use it, unless they still think they could get away with another DVD drive...
theak47 on 27 May '11 said:
Lets not kid ourselves guys. Regardless of how much money it costs to make the PS4, we will still be paying big bucks for it!!!
ensabahnur on 27 May '11 said:
Maybe they'll stick a HD-DVD drive in there and finally find a use for that warehouse of blank discs.
anytime on 27 May '11 said:
How about just not buying it when it comes out.
Ghostface_K on 27 May '11 said:
I'll wait for the PS4 slim, just like i did with the PS3. Plus the PS3 has many years left in it I think the PS4 won't be until 2014 I reckon
markyR on 27 May '11 said:
I remember seeing 360 games bundles at launch costing £600 in GAME. So Sony are not the only ones that need to keep initial console costs low...... but Sony does need to restore confidence in the company so it has to get it right next time more then anyone, and it desperately needs to charge for it's PSN and make it the same standard as XBL but they won't..
jim2wheels on 27 May '11 said:
Early adopters always get shafted in price and quality games to play - it goes with the territory.
I generally wait until the first round of price cuts come in.
Soviet1918 on 27 May '11 said:
Oh will will deff be BR, Sony and others have put a lot of money into BR and its a standard now so.
And im gonna guess PS4 will be water cooled & at least 2gb ram.
humanhand on 27 May '11 said:
As a fan of Sony this is disappointing, but understandable. However, what has kept me loving my PS3 is how over the top backwards fat is. Now I’m getting the sense that Sony might be moving towards a Nintendo cost and development type style. Nothing against Nintendo, but I just hope that the PS4 isn’t left in the new Nintendo console’s dust. …”Sony, it only does half.”
PS3UberTool on 27 May '11 said:
I wouldn't bank on it.
meh2allfanboys on 27 May '11 said:
“I remember seeing 360 games bundles at launch costing £600 in GAME.”
You always get 1
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 27 May '11 said:
I think you are missing the point Sony are telling you it's going to be cheaper to make. This will mean that it will turn a profit at launch. This will mean it will not have 4 cell processors, or warter cooling, the GPU will be a mid range on you can buy today. In short a top of the line PC brought today will be more powerful than a PS4 the big N model.
My guess would be:
Will it use CELL likey will it have a four no, what will most likey happen is it will be a duo core cell. And it will have more PPE's (eg:16) per core. Memory will be around 3-4 gig of dual channel DDR3, suported by a modded nvidia GPU based on a GTX 460 (without CUDA). The memory will be shared to cut cost's & a SATA 3 1TB 7500rpm 64GB cache HDD, no SSD they only last upto two years. BD-Rom as standard, PS3 emulation fan cooled with heatpipe's over CPU & GPU.
sweatyBallacks on 27 May '11 said:
Like others have said, surely this is the way to go for PS4:
1. Multiple Cell processor
2. High-end Nvidia GPU
3. Blu ray drive (discs with 50gb capacity)
4. 4gb memory at least
5. 500gb hard-drive (or more expensive 250gb flash drive)
Bang that should be viable at about £350.
sweatyBallacks on 27 May '11 said:
Oops you beat me to it. Funny though how your predicted specs are pretty similar to mine
jim2wheels on 27 May '11 said:
Nothing but guess work and speculation.
The PS3 put nearly 50 million blu-ray players into homes across the world, this and allowing porn on blu-ray helped them win the format race against HD DVD. They learned from the Betamax v VHS race. They earn money on every blu-ray player, game, film and so on. It compensated for the PS3 loss, and then some. They don't need to worry about that with the next gen, hence the "cut in costs" statement.
I don't think there will be much compromise at all with the next console. The PS3 done all the donkey work already.
humanhand on 27 May '11 said:
All of this talk makes me gravitate towards the thought that Sony is merely shooting for updated graphics, and memory. Which is fine, but I hope there is some innovation. Otherwise, they seem to be just trying to keep up with MS and possibly the idea of Nintendo’s new console crashing the party soon. That being said, I think the argument can always fall back on, having great exclusive games at launch will potentially forgive all.
damoxuk on 27 May '11 said:
My guess is PS4 using same processor as PS3 but maybe quad core or more also at least 8 times more memory and a better graphics card.
As they got the factories themselves all setup from PS3 days the reduce cost will come from the fact cell is already in place but the other MAJOR factor overlooked is simply Blu-ray in 2006 was new tech and very expensive but now it's a lot more common so that will factor in.
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 27 May '11 said:
@jim2wheels
For one I said my guess and two I think it's wishful thinking on your part, as for making money on Blu-ray games only Sony make games on that format. Also Sony have only just started posting proft there is no way shareholder's are going to bite the pillow again. Infact I expect Microsoft's next console to do the same what would micosoft's spec's be?
Tri-core AMD six BD mddule processor 3-4 gig Dual DDR3 custom AMD GPU based of a HD5670. Shared memory 1TB HDD using Tri-layer HD-DVD as game format heat piped CPU/GPU fan cooled.
splitter on 27 May '11 said:
I think Sony have learned a trick from Microsoft here...and I hope I'm wrong.
The 360 got the jump on them this gen', because Microsoft rushed out an unreliable console that lacked the quality the PS3 had (no Blu-Ray, no built-in Wi-Fi, noisy fans for example). I hope this isn't a sign Sony are going to take a similar route.
Felly117 on 27 May '11 said:
The PS4 must surely have bigger memory if mothing else. I findit hard to believe that I can buy a 2tb hard drive for my computer for £60-70 yet PS3 memory is only 320 gb at top spec. Also I hope they don't implement move as an unoptional extra, if I wanted to move my right arm around while playing with myself I'd just ....
jim2wheels on 27 May '11 said:
Read your first paragraph again mate, starting from "this will mean". "my guess" started from the 2nd paragraph. Just saying...
Yes it is wishful thinking, nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mention any format, you did. Read it again.
My reason for posting was purely on the economic point. Sony as a company were prepared to make a loss with PS3 because it would reap huge benefits elsewhere. The other point I was making was that blu-ray has already been established (with a big help from PS3 units), so they don't have to "bite the pillow again".
I'm not going to repeat myself again.
chamony on 27 May '11 said:
its been touted round that the next gen will be the last of the consoles before cloud gaming hasn't it?
so you'd have thought they would go out with a big bang,
ie, fairly expensive but very powerful, with 'special' architecture that no one can program properly for the first couple years of its life - the usual sony approach,
where this sounds a lot more microsoft,
bang a load of powerful pc bits in a box, make it easy to program and bobs your aunty PS720!
i mean Xbox 4 er PS Xbox DAMN Sony Xbox sh1t no bollox MicroSonysoft 4 what eh? Psxbox 720
fook it
guyston on 27 May '11 said:
PS3's were sold at a huge loss so they could smuggle Blu-ray players into the homes of millions of PlayStation fanatics helping them win the format war between HDDVD (Toshibia owned) and Blu-ray (Sony owned) so they can earn millions from licensing on films etc, way more than they have lost from PS3s.
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 27 May '11 said:
If your are comming from a
"My reason for posting was purely on the economic point"
Sony have Posted a 3.17 billion dollar loss.
"They earn money on every blu-ray player, game, film and so on"
How many other game formats apart from Sony use BD-Roms for games exactly?
You do know that Sony is part of 9 company's that take royalties for blu-ray all of which manufactor players and disc's. That is again partenered within the Blu-ray Disc Association, you make it sound as if Sony are sole benefactor.
Also case in point Sony are cutting back on NGP spec's, do you think this won't carry over to PS4?
"Sony has informed its development partners that the NGP will include 256MB of RAM, down from the 512MB the company initially planned to include in the system. VRAM has been similarly halved, with video memory now expected to come in at 128MB." (taken from Gamespot.)
nocturnal on 27 May '11 said:
Blu ray will be the media format of choice for at least the next few years. There is just no possible way things can get much better than that on a disk as we know it. If PS4 didnt include blu ray playback I would be extremely shocked. Sony makes a fortune from blu ray.
jim2wheels on 27 May '11 said:
@Flaciddonkey
Mate, you're reading it in the context that you want hear. I can say anything and you will twist it to whatever suits your argument, which you displayed all the way through your last response. I'm not saying you were wrong in your original post, I never did, but you clearly cannot understand what I am saying. You have misconstrued everything I said twice now.
I'm done with this conversation.
united5876 on 27 May '11 said:
Good because this probaly means the ps4 won't cost an absolute s**tload to buy.
gmcb007 on 27 May '11 said:
Just stick to making a games console and don't bother trying to make it a full blown entertainment machine full of features we may not want but have to pay for anyways because theres no core console.
g_marrs on 27 May '11 said:
Yay, PSWii on the horizon then.
Barca Azul on 28 May '11 said:
Its a tough one and potentially will mean a much shorter life cycle for the PS4.
Also worried it will be PS3.5 instead.
I blame nintendo TBH, if the wii hadn't sold so well, I'm sure it would be different.
Also needs to be as good as anything MS do. Otherwise it will hold the next gen back.
I have to say, the PS3 has been a great all rounder, but with TV's becoming the new smart phone, you never know!
fonjackerjon on 28 May '11 said:
I dont want a Ps4! game companies really p**s me off, it has taken 5 years for the Ps3 to get going and now they are talking about a sucessor, Whats is it gonna have super HD graphics?? slightly more RAM? not good enough, There is still so much left in the PS3, Game companies are so friggin' lazy they keep saying 'no new next generation hampers creativity' NO lazy ass developers hamper creativiy. Graphics on the PS3 still look amazing and its 10 year lifespan isnt up till 2016, so unless you have created something ultra amazing sony leave the PS3 alone a graphics update simply isnt good enough!
jim2wheels on 28 May '11 said:
Do you wanna buy a step ladder? 20 quid and it's yours.
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 28 May '11 said:
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdwHrCT5jr0
Possible on current PC's (well of if you have 3 GTX 580's but it's not been scaled yet )if epic were to bother doing PC games. By 2016 current consoles would be a joke, Tablets would have more grunt than a ps3, NGP is almost there. Thing's move on, current consoles can't run at 60fps at 1080p without very noticable v-sync (GT5 I am looking at you). You forget also that both the 360 and PS3 are all in one enterainment boxs, not just for games. 512 total ram don't cut it that's why console system GUI's chug and freeze.
Developers biggest problems now this gen are memory (lack of) & read speeds, ever noticed texure's load in before your eyes? That's because of disc based formats, streaming will only go sofar, in a ideal world we would be going back to cart's. A usb memory stick cost's little today and you would see a massive overall perfomace boost on your software.
You say that the PS3 still looks amazing and in some repect's it still does, however has the leap from each these games, uncharted, resistance, killzone, Gears of War, Halo & Fable been in anyway huge from the one before it? The consoles have been almost running at peak almost right off the bat. Due in no small part to PC games already two years before this gen started to run (some) games almost at that level.
In anycase when you see NextBox & PS4's running you will wan't one, and all will be forgot. Me I gave up on consoles about a year into owning my first (of many refurbed) 360's & paying through the nose for games. Got a PC and haven't looked back, it's not for most people (granted). As you will have this programed into you that pc gaming is expenisve (it can be, even more so when your 20ish it means less money for the sundissential clubbing fund). But if your furgal my old intel duo i got back in 2007 has been able to run anything it threw at it (with a extra GTX8800 I got for it later). And only recently have I had to start over with a new PC and it's been less to buy as I don't need a new monitor or anything other than the tower
metallicorphan on 29 May '11 said:
LOL,yeah lets talk about this games bundle...how many games was with it? 10? ....because i bought the 360 on day one for £279.99
cooloneuk on 31 May '11 said:
I can honestly say I don't blame them really. I mean they lose money for every PS3 they sell. They made a loss of more than 1 billion US Dollars from the sales of the consoles. Just think of how many games would have needed to be sold to turn that into a viable profit.
It wouldn't surprise me if the core of the the PS4 will be based on the current PS3. It will be more cost effective methinks and will defo mean compatibility with PS3 games and accessories without having to invest more into that. I have a funny feeling Nintendo did that with the Wii from the Gamecube.
As for the price at launch, I seriously doubt it will be much cheaper (if at all) than the PS3 was at launch. But then again I doubt it will stop it from being a good selling console.
cooloneuk on 31 May '11 said:
There was no way in hell anyone sold an Xbox 360 for anywhere near that £600 price tag. Was u drunk or stoned or something or even dreaming when you "saw" that?
krazykunal85 on 2 Jun '11 said:
So Sony...will this mean it will cost less on release day????