An independent female developer has argued the way to tackle gender imbalance in the games industry is to change perceptions in school.
"The only difference between me and my maths-inclined, game-loving friend - who does advanced needlepoint instead of engineering - is that she succumbed to the peer pressure," Dunki told Develop.
She argued that gender imbalance is a problem that is too big for the industry to solve all by itself: "The outreach needs to go down to the [early] school levels. That's where the research shows girls stop studying maths and science due to pressures from peers and other sources."
Develop reports that 42 percent of all game players are women, according to recent ESA data, but it's believed that only one tenth of game developers are female.
If efforts are made in schools now, Dunki thinks we will see results in the industry in a couple of generations. "In the meantime, the best thing we can do is provide role models. If you're a female engineer or scientist, put yourself out there," she added.
Dunki's words echo those of LucasArts' creative director Chris Hocking, who said on Wednesday that the industry needs to attract more female workers and become a little less obsessed with fart jokes.
Comments
37 comments so far...
Imaduck on 8 Jul '11 said:
"Gender Imbalance" won't be sorted by moaning about it or trying to pass laws or ram it down kids throats, like most things, the best way to sort it is to f**king stand up and do something about it. I don't really think there is an "imbalance" though, men and women are different, why does everyone want to be the same?. If women want to make games, all they have to do is, like men, stand up and do it
. If at first you don't succeeed, try again! You can do anything if you try hard enough.
Just as a note, I have absolutely nothing against girls, in gaming, or anywhere. I would beat the s**t out of anyone treating a girl badly or bashing her around without a second thought. I'm just tired of our society
PMIKE5 on 8 Jul '11 said:
Games companies need to take female gamers seriously to make that happen. I have a friend who is a hardcore FPS player (she often helps her mates get the Legendary Achievement in Halo 3) yet she was refused entry for a gaming research company just because she's a girl.
Pretend all you like that the problem lies with women, but really, the problem lies with the companies.
Imaduck on 8 Jul '11 said:
Indeed, but the companies won't change because they're told to or forced to, and that wouldn't be good for anyone. So really, it's in the hands of the women who want the change, to really push it, to not give up, to show what they can do. They need to show their strength to the industry basically, that's why getting legal action etc. wouldn't help as it would make them look weak, which they aren't.
rbt2 on 8 Jul '11 said:
Gender imbalance?
Next you'll be telling me that wimmin are equal to us!
Girls, know your place.
Preferably in the kitchen.
Where you belong.
*Incoming.....again*
Balladeer on 8 Jul '11 said:
rbt, this is for you...
Megatrons_Fury on 8 Jul '11 said:
It's amazing how quick people are to blame others for their own shortfalls in life.
I sincerely hope one day all of us can just own up to our own failures without having to resort to falling back on our sex, colour, gender preference etc etc etc. The over the top rebalancing that's going on for the mistakes of previous generations is just insane, you cannot fix things by reversing everything previously done, it just won't work. Life is a marathon not a race, things take time.
It's very much like men trying to understand women in the first place or women trying to understand us i really don't think science will ever help us out on this, maybe another thousand years of human evolution will help but who knows. What the games industry needs goes far beyond female developers, to even think that is a huge concern is reverse sexism to begin with.
The games industry needs leaders, moulders and new ways of thinking, it needs individuals in companies to be bold enough to stand up and tell shareholders what they want as opposed to what they think they need. Until that happens we can all expect another round of cut & paste games with flashier graphics and even more held back download content.
I also have to add that having a skillset in playing games does in absolutely no way mean you could even begin to have a clue in games design they are literally worlds apart, i love music and i have a very good understanding of it but i know for a fact i could never write a good song, i know my limitations.
it's 2011 and we all like to think we are in touch with the modern world, we are all cool with everyones opinions and beliefs yet here we all are having another round of who can be the most politically correct forum members and its quite frankly embarrasing, i simply do not care if your black, white, brown, purple, luminous green, female, male, old, young, fat, thin, stupid, clever because like everyone else on here i have my own damn problems without trying to look cool and fake understanding of others problems. Personally i like to think that if you try your very best to treat others the way you would like to be treated everything should all fall into place, maybe we should all try that instead of the blame game.
Considering that the fashion, perfume, make-up and beauty industries make billions of pounds every year and are percieved to be female orientated / dominated yet most of the top designers, stylists and make-up artists are in fact men means it can be done. If you want to do something in life, just do it..... Or at least try, don't make excuses and fall back on predjudice before anything has even begun.
Bottom line early medicines which are still used today were invented by a woman called Lydia Pinkham around 1876, if that can be done in those sexist times then trust me women can make games if they choose to.
originalbadboy on 8 Jul '11 said:
ookkkkkk ........
Headline has too many words ... Surely it should just read 'Female Developers need to put out' ...
Imaduck on 8 Jul '11 said:
Nice post Megatron, agreed
Why does everyone want to be totally the same? Do the same jobs etc.? We aren't the same, why can't we see that as a good thing instead of an insult?! That for no reason means that those so inclined can't do things not normally associated with themselves. In success, they become unique, different special. Remind me what part of this is bad?
I f**king despise Political Correctness too. It's just iced over lying. People should just say what they mean! And we should each be strong enough in ourselves to accept that and do the same. Seriously, we're such a stifled, dishonest, fake culture now. The way we're all meant to pretend to be super loving and accept absolutely everything, or be looked down on as bad or evil, is pathetic. All it does is let anger and prejudice fester in silence, breed extremism and make everyone a total tool
TheLastDodo on 8 Jul '11 said:
A woman created Uncharted 2: Among Thieves.
Nuff said.
#ThankyouAmyHennig.
Megatrons_Fury on 8 Jul '11 said:
@imaduck
Iced over lying..... Possibly the best description of politicall correctness i have ever heard, everything you wrote was spot on and maybe like me you feel frustrated, angry and embarassed to live as part of this generation. If you don't say what you mean and stand up for whats right not just whats in fashion then to me your just fake and hollow and are as much of the problem and those who are causing the trouble in the first place.
@thelastdodo
Uncharted 2....... Well played!!! and i would also like to express my thanks to the creator of that franchise, i would also like to thank the programmers, the artists, the sound engineers, marketing department and the person who cleans the damn windows of the building they all work in Because real class stands out a mile and that game oozes it.
woodins on 8 Jul '11 said:
I was once under contract for part of a gov initiative that was set-up specifically to promote female IT professionals, programmers etc. In order to find them top jobs in the IT field (this was about 4yrs back before the ol' crunch kicked in) or to secure gov funding for them to start their own IT enterprise. The comedy of it was that hardly any women could be found (the first few were 5hit-hot mind) and the entrance criteria was watered down further and further as the sense of desperation creeped up to almost palapable levels. The gov department overseeing the project was stamping its feet as to why these "oppressed" women couldn't be found and we were not hitting our targets. The majority of those found were frankly unmotivated and ineffective. The undertone behind the whole project (seriously, it was so PC and "right on" it made your average Guardian reader look like Bernard Manning) was that men, the testoserone fueled neaderthals that we all know they are, were responsible for locking women out of the IT field and that this initiative would be the start of readdressing that. The project was a monumental failure and a waste of taxpayers dough.
Probably an un-pc attitude, but their some major differences in the way in men and women interface with technology in general, and it has nothing to do with it being socially constructed or gender stereotypes being enforced from an early age. Anyone involved in education will tell you that teachers and schools are desperate to get girls to be as passionate as possible about IT, and they create lesson plans, programs etc. to cater for the "special" way girls learn (much to the detriment of boys, but hey, boys aren't so important). This is drilled into prospective IT teachers the minute they turn up for training. Even so, if you pop your head into your average mixed comp, you will see a massive difference in the way that boys will work in a group round a PC and engage with the tech, as opposed to a group of girls. Its both frightening and impressive to see a group of lads block everything out around them and get to work on the task at hand. Granted, the girl teams communicate alot more, whereas boys quickly establish the old "alpha male" leadership model - but the work rate and problem solving achieved by the boys is amazing to see. I hate to say it, but the girls spend more time talking and trying desperately to get some kind of "group conciousness" going before they even begin to tackle the problem. I'm not for one second suggesting that women are less intelligent, but I will say that logic and an affinity with tech isn't most womens default mental "alogorithm."
Theres a reason why we don't see so many female developers or female centric games. They already have the best game in the world built just for them. Facebook. The object of the game is to get as many carefully constructed pictures on their profile (better yet if they can get pictures of them out and about - battles ensue between women as they all strive to prove they are of higher social status and that their lives are soooo much fun) and convert them into "friends" and "attention" (the two forms of tracking a score and levelling up on Facebook). They can break and form alliances as and when they see fit in the "Facebook World," and can say pretty much what they want with little fear of recrimination. The ensuing bitchiness and drama in "Facebook World" is what really attracts and holds female gamers, because its like having a persistent online episode of "EastEnders" just waiting for them on their laptop - but with them as the star.
Sorry, but your gonna have a hard time convincing me of the plight of the poor female developer. Still in its infancy, the gaming industry is still wrestling with the "frat boy mentality" it has with regards to the maturity of its subject matter, but I will pick that any day over the misandry that is pervasive throughout all other forms of entertainment and media.
nb_nmare2 on 8 Jul '11 said:
No.
Imaduck on 8 Jul '11 said:
Alright Mare, since your opinions are clearly more valid than others, and you have ever so much to add, lets hear your opinion
Also, what do you consider a "hardcore FPS"? Lets all stand around and look down on people huh?
nb_nmare2 on 8 Jul '11 said:
Two words: regenerating health. If all you need to do to get back to 100% health is hide behind a wall for 10 seconds, that really isn't very hardcore, now is it? If you want a hardcore Halo game, look to the original (or indeed the upcoming remake).
Things like the degree of linearity in level design and checkpoints (or lack thereof) are also factors, but I would say regenerating health is the biggie.
Felly117 on 8 Jul '11 said:
Its not just gaming industry that needs more women. I work in engineering and its a right sausage fest. Theres only 4 women out of 443 people in production side. Admittedly there is more in HR but thats just futher stereotyping.
icedmetal57 on 8 Jul '11 said:
Yeah... I don't see it as a women can't sort of thing, I see it more like, they don't want to be game developers. Sure there are some, there just aren't as many females as males in the industry. The same can be said for the cosmetic industry or fashion industry, there's more females working in it, I imagine, than males. It's not like game developers are hanging up a "No Girls Allowed" sign, that's just how it is. If a woman wants to become a game developer, that's fine, go ahead, no one is stopping them. The game industry is an industry of talent and skill, as long as you have either of those, there's no reason why you can't work in it. The game industry, being one of the newer industries, doesn't suffer as much as other industries to prejudices and whatnot, it's too new.
Trav141 on 8 Jul '11 said:
When I first saw the headline I was thinking something else entirely...
Megatrons_Fury on 8 Jul '11 said:
This forum has really provided a great insight into how little society really needs political correctness.
From everyones replies so far and the fact that nobody as of yet has thrown the men are scum line into the equation its clear to me that at least on this website people are completely level headed and when push comes to shove we all know right from wrong.
Considering how badly us gamers are stereotyped in the media for being depressing violent cavemen trapped in bedrooms playing shooting games and swearing down microphones its refreshing to see that really we are just a group of like minded people who whilst being very pasionate about our hobby are open minded and fair.
Considering how bad things were sexually and racially 100 years ago and 50 years ago and even 10 years ago it fills me with hope that maybe our childrens children can one day come onto a games website to talk just about GAMES and that none of the articles on there would ever be about this rubbish because finally the human race has evolved past such rubbish.
I don't know about you but i'm very proud of us all here today.......
GROUP HUG!
kimoak on 8 Jul '11 said:
I love women that put themselves out there. The dirty minxes! Purrrr!
Megatrons_Fury: I have gone and screwed the thread up now, haven't I?
gmcb007 on 9 Jul '11 said:
Gender doesn't matter, just skills.
Also, isn't one of the main developers for Deus Ex a woman? If you look at most game credits you'll see that there's a fair share of women present.
I agree with the political correctness comments. It's a load of govermental-ego-boosting toss.
Yellow6 on 9 Jul '11 said:
That's not society, that's capitalism.
If the demographics say the majority of your customers are male aged 12-35 then the marketing folks (mostly women) only want to interview males aged 12-35.
If you happen to be the best FPS player on the planet but sport a womb it's not going to change the demographics for a particular game type.
How many (straight) males get excluded from market focus groups on Sims or My Little Pony?
Women make up 42% of gamers?
Well that's the minority.
It's also only in specific genres.
If the 53% of the actual population that are women took up gaming, in all gaming genres, then the entire industry would be aimed at them.
The industry are here to make money, not keep women down.
If you can guarantee that I'll get 53% of the market I'll sell whatever they want, and employ whoever I need to get that product out there. As a shareholder or GM I'd be an idiot not to.
There are no rules (in the West) about what females can or cannot do (any more).
It's just cold hard money that talks.
Women, get out there and buy more games.
Women get out there and buy more FPS's.
In the meantime stop subjecting me to your whining!
Beetle Bum on 9 Jul '11 said:
GET YOUR TITS OUT!!!!!!
rbt2 on 9 Jul '11 said:
I know what you mean.
Surely a more apt thread title would have read...'Female developers need to put out'.
Well only the lookers.
Balladeer on 9 Jul '11 said:
Oh Jesus. This is why there are so few women around here. Do I need to post the xkcd comic again?
rbt, you're a nice guy but your sexist "jokes" ceased being funny about... well... the first time. And
? Please.
Here's the xkcd comic again. Before you post another one of those jokes, read the comic and think.
rbt2 on 9 Jul '11 said:
I am neither nice nor a guy, Balladeer. I'm a bloke.
And when you get out into the big wide world, you'll know what I'm on abaht.
Balladeer on 9 Jul '11 said:
I've known enough women to make a judgement. Arguably, you're the one whose viewpoint has been skewed.
rbt2 on 9 Jul '11 said:
You're 21, aren't you?
Then you know f**k all.
eXciSioNz on 9 Jul '11 said:
Female developers need to 'put themselves out there',
What so male developers could put themselves in there?
Not fooling anyone xD
Balladeer on 9 Jul '11 said:
Not saying I'm a genius. In fact, I agree that 21 is too young to have an in-depth opinion of the world, or of women. And yet, even at my tender age I know that "SHOW US YOUR TITS!" isn't funny or clever, and is even quite offensive.
And I don't think you're a genius either.
dragonjim on 9 Jul '11 said:
why don't they tell their peers to !?#% off?
rbt2 on 9 Jul '11 said:
You're dead right. I'm no genius. If I was then I wouldn't be on here talking to you.
You're right about one thing though. You have no in-depth opinion of the world.
Wait until you're a bit older and have left your mummy and daddy and Camden and then get back to me.
Balladeer on 10 Jul '11 said:
This is the last post I'll make on this, because I don't deny my naïveté.
You cannot use my inexperience to sweep my arguments under the carpet. You need to provide reasons and explanations just like you would to anyone else. If I'm wrong, tell me why. And frankly, I think the subsection of the female world you've experienced is likely to skew your views unfairly, just as mine has.
Right, done. Moving on.
Yellow6 on 10 Jul '11 said:
I cannot for the life of me remember who it was but somebody on here used to have a great signature:
Balladeer on 10 Jul '11 said:
Yes, but that was actually funny.
jtthegame on 10 Jul '11 said:
You know i wouid not mind if these women wanted things to be equal between men and women because thats how i feel they should be but my problem is women want women to dominate and that is wrong
treesmurf 11 on 11 Jul '11 said:
Females need to put themselves out there.
rbt2 on 13 Jul '11 said:
Yes I can.