Microsoft's Xbox 360 successor will be capable of graphical detail level with James Cameron's movie Avatar, according to hardware giant AMD.
Robison claimed the A.I. and physics capabilities of the next-gen hardware will allow for every pedestrian in a game such as Grand Theft Auto to have a 'totally individual mentality,' meaning no more mob mentality - 'every NPC will actually be an individual character'.
THQ boss Brian Farrell recently told investors he expects next-gen Microsoft and Sony consoles to be less centred on raw power and more focused on accessible services and user interfaces - "if there are consoles".
2K boss Christoph Hartmann recently claimed Microsoft and Sony are already "experimenting" with Kinect and Move for what could be the foundations of their next-generation console plans.
Comments
71 comments so far...
kimoak on 17 Jul '11 said:
There's a lot of s**t talking going on this weekend. Graphice like Avatar on a home console? What a load of poppycock!
monkeyd_93 on 17 Jul '11 said:
if each individual NPC has it's own character, should we expect devlopment time and costs to sky rocket? Although it would make it more interesting, im pretty sure the average gamer is happy at the moment with the NPC, as i for one wont be too happy if videogame costs are on the rise again (paying an extravagant amount in Australia is a pain in the wallet)
kenneth50 on 17 Jul '11 said:
I could believe it if they said the PS4!
RetroJB on 17 Jul '11 said:
"It'll be like jacking into the Matrix"!
kenneth50 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Morelike Xbots "jacking into the disc tray"!
Obviously, that's something us PS3 owners are unable to do since Sony have abandoned this archaic method of disc entry.
BenThomasFoster on 17 Jul '11 said:
Well be capable of those graphics possibly but sadly Game Dev's don't have budgets of £200mil and 6-7 years development cycles
mennwhite on 17 Jul '11 said:
I can already do that by putting the blue colour channel on full.
TechnoWolf on 17 Jul '11 said:
I'll believe it when I see it, because at the moment it sounds like a bunch of empty promises.
liveswired on 17 Jul '11 said:
By the next gen in 2015 it should be feasible. The current top of the range gaming PCs could probably handle that now but due to most games being multi format there's nothing really out their being specifically engineered to make use of PC hardware bar Battlefield 3. (Crysis 2 is just a console port with DX11 shoe horned in because of the quite right outrage)
i agree with the s**t talk though! Who cares or even wants every NPC to have a different personality? I don't.
toaplan on 17 Jul '11 said:
AMD gpu for Xbox720 too? That would be a surprise, as Microsoft has close ties with Nvidia. There's even that old contract which gives MS the right to match any bid, in case another company tries to take over Nvidia. MS wanted to secure the supply of xbox gpus with the contract... Also, this reminds me of when the graphics supplier for the N64 claimed that it would have graphics like Jurassic Park. In the end we had to settle for Turok the dinosaur hunter, which was decent enough, but graphically light years from the movie it was inspired by.
Mmmmgrolsch on 17 Jul '11 said:
Haha
who are these guys kidding? Avatar standard graphics? Not a chance, be a few more consoles before we even get close. Not even PC's are half way there yet.
ricflair on 17 Jul '11 said:
Doesn't someone come out and say this every gen? At least that we will expect graphics to match the CGI movies of the day, which we never actually get!
And isn't the 360 GPU was an ATI?
flash501 on 17 Jul '11 said:
My arse will it have graphics like Avatar!
NGP on 17 Jul '11 said:
@toaplan Why would it be a surprise... the Xbox 360 uses an AMD (ATI) GPU. The original Xbox had an nVidia GPU and that didn't work out well because nVidia refused to shrink it later on seeing as it wouldn't be worth their while, reducing MS's ability to redesign and price reduce the original Xbox.
Crossblade_2000 on 17 Jul '11 said:
A textbook example of the usage of the word, "exaggeration".
toaplan on 17 Jul '11 said:
Yes the 360 does have an ATI gpu, just wiki-checked it... so those ties must have loosened a bit. Nvidia supplied the gpu for the ps3 instead... However, the acquisition deal with Nvidia is still valid. I recently read an article about it, which must have distorted my memory... Here's a link about the MS-Nvidia deal: http://mobile.informationweek.com/10996 ... 266f6873e/
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 17 Jul '11 said:
You forget there was the debalce over the XBOX, and because of Nvidia the 360 had to use emulation to play originals. Also I have posted this elseware, if the console is to run a OS it would need a desktop processor able to process out of order. Rather than in-order as the Xenon & CELL does, this with the low amount of RAM in both the PS3 & 360. Is why I sometimes considered handing back over the big TV for half an hour, after I pressed the guide button and making a couple of drinks
(now I just sit under the stairs with my PC, like the old times 
)
ANYWAY
It would make sence to get both there CPU & GPU chips from the same vendor, bigger discount lower risk of a bottleneck in the system too. And they are the same vendor who provided for the 360 so backwards compatibility would be covered (even though MS own the rights to that chip design). And when the big draw for XBOX is LIVE that is a real must for the system.
jtake9 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Nice to hear the xbox 720 will be fully utilizing an imagination output.....
aawells07 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Id say its correct or close. Im sure the guy knows something we dont or else he wouldnt have said it and the only reason Xbox is mentioned and not PS is the fact that OXM did the interview so Sony guys relax a little cause im sure the PS will be right there with it lol.
Fr33Kye on 17 Jul '11 said:
O.o I find that unlikely but that depends on when it shows up. I t's interesting that there are this many rumors. It may be a case of asking the question, or maybe it's actually coming soon. Eh
El Mag on 17 Jul '11 said:
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/04/30/navi-motorboat.jpg
Smurfing hell.
gmcb007 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Jesus, do you PS3 trolls ever p**s off?
aawells07 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Morelike Xbots "jacking into the disc tray"!
Obviously, that's something us PS3 owners are unable to do since Sony have abandoned this archaic method of disc entry.
Jesus, do you PS3 trolls ever p**s off?
I was wondering the same thing. Every chance they get. We get rid of one and another takes its place. Its just a matter of time before they get banned for not being able to contain p*ss poor comments and starting flame wars.
ricflair on 17 Jul '11 said:
That reads to me like ps3fannyboy/shmuppet/armbar or whatever the last one was.
KMakawa on 17 Jul '11 said:
Free warnings, for fanboy-baiting trolls.
Who wants one?
The_Jaster on 17 Jul '11 said:
all abooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard the Hype train.
http://www.thailandtravel.co/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/train-1.jpg
In fact what am I saying this train doesn't go to my stop.
flash501 on 17 Jul '11 said:
MOTORBOAT!!!!!!!!!!!
El Mag on 17 Jul '11 said:
You'd suffocate flash, but what a way to go eh!
flash501 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Indeed, I'm goin in!
El Mag on 17 Jul '11 said:
Good luck. If you don't make it i'll tell the world of your brave sacrifice, you'll be remembered as a hero.... and a lucky fecker.
toaplan on 17 Jul '11 said:
By the way, AMD is not such a hardware giant anymore. Their current market capitalization is only about 4.4 billion dollars. Even though they seem to be getting a lot of gigs these days. Nintendo and Apple have recently chosen AMD over Nvidia, and they have been gaining pc gpu market share too, as their recent cards seem to handle dx11 and tessellation better. And they have the fusion-line of chips for the pc, which has significantly better integrated graphics compared to Intel chips (though still not so great for gaming, i would assume). But market cap-wise they are tiny compared to true giants, such as Intel (worth 118 billion) and Microsoft (an astronomical valuation at 225 billion, second only to Apple in the tech sector). Even Nvidia is worth over 8 billion, thanks in part for the hype around their tegra mobile chips. This is probably of limited interest, I just wanted to point out that AMD is quite tiny and MS the giant that one day may collect all our souls. Unless Apple has already collected them first...
1589vaughan on 17 Jul '11 said:
Just a thought, but wouldn't have to have graphics double that of Avatar, seeing as avatar was release last year or the year before, and if the next xbox is throught to be coming within the next 5 years, the graphics would be outdated somewhat
just a thought!!
rick on 17 Jul '11 said:
Funny, I remember some idiot saying the N64 would be able to create graphics on a par with Jurrasic Park.
Avatar level visual quality is at the least a generation ahead of the next generation.
sweatyBallacks on 17 Jul '11 said:
We would all be excited about graphics on a console being that good but for sure the graphics would only be artificially impressive. What I fear we end up with is Crysis 2-style graphical representation in future games: great textures and lighting but a poor level of interaction with the game world.
It's all well having an enemy that looks completely life-like but then when you shoot him you get a crude blood splash that disappears in a sec and said enemy carries on as if nothing happened.
Which is Crysis 2's approach to graphics in a nutshell.
Tom tom tom on 17 Jul '11 said:
I see it now. Ps4 will be all out casual with graphics barely better than a wii U and xbox will go for power. Ps4 will outsell xbox 4 to 1 and Microsoft will bow out of the console race allowing nintendo and Sony to completely destroy gaming as they see fit. Sony and nintendo fanboys will claim that sales mean a console is actually good because obviously nothing else matters. Nintendo fans will look forward to Mario 341. Sega fans will look forward to a new sonic game, every three days.
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 17 Jul '11 said:
While true AMD's market share is low due to it's processor market share, that is impacted by the lack of the "Bulldozer" chipset. This will likey get bigger when they take there finger out of there proverbial, and put it out market I would of went AMD if they would of launched Bulldozer by now.
Now as regards of the formentioned company's two are software, and by that the largest, AMD only in competition with intel & Nvidia. The GPU market is small, but AMD have a trump card there GPU's are AMD branded now so I can see them slowy claw at intels market share because of that. I would also hope to see powered by AMD on the next gen consoles, I like the underdogs.
Barry316 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Anybody going to jump on the Xbox fanboy like they did the ps3 one ? no ?
AaronRider on 17 Jul '11 said:
How is that comment anywhere as near as bad as the comments from the ps3 fan boy?
Mobius01 on 17 Jul '11 said:
This is what it took to render Avatar: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/arch ... nd-avatar/
How in the name of sanity is a home machine gonna accomplish that in real-time
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8808/8890137copy.jpg
CrispyLog on 17 Jul '11 said:
The Xbox already has graphics like avatar. Have you not seen the little avatars on your Xbox which you can pick hats and clothes for, you can't tell me they are graphically ahead of the current Xbox games!
xxx128 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Reality check: Knowing m$ and $ony their next hardware will consist of low spec PC's made up of low end affordable PC components with hardware tessaletion. The era of when home consoles have been made up of original and superior hardware is long gone. So for one minute of avatar quality like graphics we probably need 60 xbox720's or 60 ps3's. Dont believe every bs that you read.
nihilism on 17 Jul '11 said:
the next consoles will come with a built in 2 story house
MRHONGKONGDAVE on 17 Jul '11 said:
Don't mean to burst the bubble but even if you spend £3,000 on a rig you can't even get close to the level of rendering involved! With home consoles launching between £300-£400 I don't think we're anywhere near these expectations!
I know consoles are holding PCs back at the mo so what we could expect is PC gaming to get half way there. But going by the truck loads of cash Nintendo have made from the actual Wii console I'd expect something a little more modest from MS and Sony. Even the VITA has been reigned in recently and downspec'd to take on the DS and 3DS price wise.
Things have changed in the hardware stakes, I am willing to bet that both Sony and MS are going to release something that can be upgraded later on, console / PC half breed with interchangeable SDD, GPU and RAM.
WATCH THIS SPACE!!!!
Jensonjet on 17 Jul '11 said:
I just want all the games I buy to run at 60 frames a second next generation. It would be nice if animation were a little less robotic and a little more realistic, although the problem is less hardware related than down to the quality of the animators currently working in games.
If the standard for facial animation were closer to LA Noire that would be nice too. Apart from that I absolutely will not expect Avatar quality graphics for at least two more generations. I will hope for better-than-Avatar stories, acting, music and design-work in my games!
Barca Azul on 17 Jul '11 said:
Well....you never know, but its a big statement. As long as it makes me a coffee too ill be happy!
Kinect and move can do one mind!
alan666 on 17 Jul '11 said:
stuff the Xbox-720, i have it from a good source that the Xbox-1440 is going to be the first 4D games console !
WOOOO holodeck here i come
horngreen on 17 Jul '11 said:
Just like the PS2 was to have Toy Story graphics. Hell we haven't even reached that yet! I really hate when the new console talk starts. It's always overblown just like this article. Crowds in driving games won't have herd mentality. I think they said that last gen but they still do. Who the hell cares what a crowd does in Forza? In order for each person to don't something original that individual has to be programmed to do that. Programming thousands of individuals cost money and for what purpose? Remember the blue Saleen that slammed into the wall and showed that the 360 would be able to have realistic physics so cars didn't blow apart the same each time? Well has any game really pulled that off yet? Seems like a lot of work and even if the console can handle it will anyone bother programming for it?
KippDynamite on 17 Jul '11 said:
Uh, games don't even look as good as most of the original Toy Story, and that movie is getting on in years . . .
djhazardous on 17 Jul '11 said:
I SMELL BULLs**t.
aawells07 on 17 Jul '11 said:
Id love to see something like this in the future for consoles.
The_Jaster on 17 Jul '11 said:
yeah it will have graphics like avatar
http://images.wikia.com/avatar/images/d/d0/New_Avatar3.png
Joe90_Remy700 on 17 Jul '11 said:
good to see it AMD powered. personally i thin they make superior chips. nice with a big lump of CoD
but seriously, the experiences i have had with nvidia and itel powered machines have been far from stisfactory, and i'd say the processor for the nextbox (please dont call it 720!) will dump on the competition
Beetle Bum on 18 Jul '11 said:
i feel sick
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 18 Jul '11 said:
If it runs a OS this could be be the case, I would too like to see that the RAM as a mandatory upgrade (sold with a game maybe?). No SSD though, look a little into them I was going to get one myself. And then I found out they only last two years, thank fook I bothered to look into them. The GPU could be optional like running a game at lower setings, this way a console could be viable over a ten year time frame. With a optional GPU upgrade 5 years in & two mandatory RAM upgrades, three and seven years in to a cycle.
FlacidDonkeyGuy on 18 Jul '11 said:
This true, but consoles were never made up of original superior hardware in there first place don't quite agree on low end also though. Older maybe but in-order to hit the power heat & heat requrements, they would have to be made at 28Nm, that would give them a perfomace boost just by being smaller.
Also a 2008 desktop duo core would exponentially increase the output of current consoles just by being able to do things out of sequence. Yet alone a quad or hexacore by todays standards, mind you there will be no point in buying these new consoles until the old ones die. That is because 720 & PS4 games will be gimped like current PC games, and if reading in these forums has told me anything. Most won't even care for the gimped improvements or so they say when the time comes I guess that will change. And there will be a flood of angry posters harping on that should make use of "new" console hardware.
Barca Azul on 18 Jul '11 said:
I doubt it, it would kill console gaming forever! People buy consoles so they dont have to upgrade, safe in the knowledge that if they put a game in, it will work! Its why people dont play games on PC´s and willing to accept that it may look as good.
wrightandrewjame on 18 Jul '11 said:
I somewhat remember the original Xbox being pitched as a virtual reality console by the big man Bill Gates (that butterfly tech demo for anyone that remembers). Somehow I don't quite believe that the next gen will look like Avatar. Considering the amount of computers it takes to render those images (32 machines each with 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of memory left on for months, 24 hours a day) and the amount of years it would take if you did it on one computer (a standard PC would take about 72 years to do 10 seconds of Avatar) I really can't see it anytime soon.
I still think we're decades from Avatar in real-time. We're just about getting to Toy Story levels and they claimed they could do that 10 years ago (Mircosoft and Sony). Even the most ardent PC enthusiast can't hope to have a PC that powerful anytime soon. Unless they want a supercomputer in their room. Scratch that, they probably would...
richard99 on 18 Jul '11 said:
Well not having a disc tray meant I lost a DVD when my old 60gb yellow lit so I wouldn't boast too much
If PS4 and the next xbox are that much more powerful that'll be great, it'll be cool to see how things like gameplay, AI and the scale of games change next time round as well as just graphics.
I'd guess an improvement even close to that means it'll be a few more years before we see those consoles but that's fine by me.
Sleepaphobic on 18 Jul '11 said:
Ya but run at 1 fps right? Either way that's BS.
AJDarkstar on 18 Jul '11 said:
Not only poppycock, but too expensive for the majority of devs. Is it even necessary?
Mark Hayhurst on 18 Jul '11 said:
People said that when it was touted that graphics on consoles would be as good as in the arcade.
They also said that when people said graphics on consoles would be as good as toy story.
It sounds far fatched (certainly for this coming generation) but it'll def happen
Soviet1918 on 18 Jul '11 said:
Xbox 720 will have 'graphics like Avatar' - AMD ,, "like" meaning not the same as.
Anyone else notice that?
Vampyre on 18 Jul '11 said:
We're years off this being playable realtime in a game but I suppose it's feasible to render a non-playable CGI movie at movie-industry standard on a current high-end PC. There's that guy who's used the Crysis engine to do something similar and that takes ages to render each frame.
In my opinion we've had absolutely nothing in the gaming market yet that even approaches the quality of the T-Rex in the original Jurassic Park film (and I mean a playable game with that level of visual fidelity), and that's approaching twenty years old. To quote Avatar levels of visuals in a playable game is frankly laughable for the forseeable future. Xbox 5/PS 6 maybe.
woodins on 18 Jul '11 said:
Christ, the specs on the nextbox and PS4(?) havent even been announced yet, and the hype train is already pulling out of the station (thanks devs and publishers for your mental "fall" sales strategy, no 2011 "Arkham Asylum" to keep us going, and a dead summer that causes journos to flip out in desperation to fill up a website).
Being a 30yr old git, I always remember the hype building up to the PS2 hardware release whenever someone makes a statement like this. Any other old gits remember reading in the games mags (paper things with words and pictures and photos in them - yes kids, very antique, but the "pop-ups" were much easier to ignore) about how revolutionary the "Emotion engine" was gonna be? That Square demo of that old mans face that apparently was going to be representative of how every NPC was gonna look in future FF games? Even the face-scanned loveliness of LA Noire doesnt even come close, and that was what, 15yrs ago?
I've said it before on this site, and I will say it again, one thing these hardware reps fail to consider is the diabolical dev costs that are hitting publishers with regards to making games, and the subsequent development times. Anyone see the E3 Carmack interview where he pointed out that all the big firms will be recycling their "assets" for the next-gen as the development costs at the moment have been astronomical? I'm not expecting anything that will blow my brains out the next time round. Yeah, the "Samaritan" demo was cute, and before a PC fanboy pipes up and says "bring it on, our systems are gimped because of those "fisher-price" consoles anyway!", consider the economics of a dev actually knuckling down to make a game with anything close to those visuals, expecting their customers to have the hardware to run it, and for it not to be torrented to oblivion and for them to make a decent return after all that investment. Yeah, theres piracy on consoles, but its a piddle in the ocean compared to the PC. Oh and, please don't bring out the STEAM straw-man arguement.
If things really want to push forward, I think everyone has to sit round a table and figure out how to make some decent tools to lower the costs and break this current dev cycle we are in. Realistically, I expect the next-gen to be a MOVE/Kinect/3D wankathon with the visuals of todays high-spec PC and alot more HD space to stop those pesky consumers from daring to trade in their games.
Dalaeck on 18 Jul '11 said:
It would take 4 years to render the game, let alone write it. They better get those developer kits into people's hands soon otherwise there won't be any games until 2015-16...
anytime on 19 Jul '11 said:
I can play avatar on my xbox360 just now. It's s**te.
Deinsleaf on 21 Jul '11 said:
I'd be happier if they posted the expected or actual specs of the XBOX 720. Not something that is being speculated. But seriously, I'd rather not hit the inevitable graphical wall sooner. I want to be wowed by the incremental steps of graphical fidelity as I slowly grow old. I want enemy A.I.! A.I. that is smarter than your average Call of Duty gamer
.
REALTALK1987 on 22 Jul '11 said:
I dont know why some people get so bent on new consoles, why speculate that its going to be Avatar? Really? From my point of view, this gens console cgi will be close to what we get for the next gens in game graphics qaulity. (give or take some bells and whistles). If I had to chosse a pc card ( I dont pc game by the way ) for the new 720 or ps4 it would be something in the range of a gtx 580. I think I'd be be ok with that considering how often better gpu cards come out. Why worry just wait until september and the following months and your brains will be putty by the time you play Q4's line up of ps3/360 title ie Gears 3, UC3, BF3, Skyrim, Batman, Rage, etc... You see where I'm going with this plenty of great games you keep you busy. I'll be chill til 2012 E3 then get anxious. REAL TALK
CJG on 22 Jul '11 said:
It's possible, because by the time the new Xbox is out Avatar will be outdated. Need to wait and see, but I'm sure the next box will have some power under the hood. The PC right now comes very close, so the next Xbox and PS4 should do just fine. That is if Sony and MS don't take the Wii U route.
Astounding on 23 Jul '11 said:
You're quite ignorant.
bawrash on 24 Jul '11 said:
With current techology having games that look like avatar is certainly achieveable, the reason we wont see them on the next generation of consoles is cost. Consoles have to fall into a market which is afforable to the majority so they can get as many as they can out there quickly. A £800+ console wont sell.