Last year's Pro Evo was the game's most significant overhaul since the shift to Xbox 360, with a new slanted wide camera and a whole new trick system and feel.
This year's is a less dramatic change, more a refinement of the - largely - welcome strides made last year. The question is - can Konami evolve fast enough to nullify the obvious, and often unkind, comparisons to FIFA 12?
Here's two key observations from our brief hands-on with PES 2012: 1) We enjoyed it; 2) We were struggling so much to isolate the changes, bar the odd flicker of animation, that we had to put PES 2011 - a game we played for 60 hours - on again to reinforce the contrast.
Oddly, both games are converging on the same destination, just from different starting points - and in most people's eyes, PES starts further behind. PES 2012 features subtle dribbling improvements, so 180˚ stop-turns are much sharper and skilled players are better equipped to 'hold up' the ball using subtle direction changes with the left stick - yes, not dissimilar to FIFA 12's precision dribbling.
The positional defending system from PES 2011 which, to be fair, has been largely copied by FIFA 12, feels a bit less stiff and robotic. There's a new collision system, too, which reacts specifically to the area of impact triggering unique animations. It's impressive, but less fluid than FIFA 12's new physics-generated Impact Engine.
Best of all, players no longer get 'locked' in collision animations, so you retain control and can still offload the ball, even as your player locks shoulders or stumbles.
Another key change is that the CPU AI applies a lot less mindless pressure, which is to say that the game plays more like a human than a robot, allowing you a bit more time to pick a pass. This works in tandem with the noticeably enhanced new off-the-ball AI, where teammates make dummy runs and overlaps to buy space.
It's a big improvement over the frustratingly stiff PES 2011, where you'd find yourself shouting at the AI to make runs, but the lack of a 'run prompt' button, like FIFA, is still frustrating.
STICK IT TO 'EM
Its omission - at least in current code - is odder yet, since you can now use the right stick to gain control of any player as you defend, without having to cycle to the 'right' option. You can even use the right stick to move players during set pieces and throw-ins, creating dummy runs and allowing for a faster flowing game.
What PES does well: player individuality, likenesses, punchy shooting and tight dribbling is as strong as ever. The frustration is, that while FIFA 12 very clearly addresses the fans' biggest complaints, PES 2012 cherry picks the niggles.
The tighter feel and response will delight hardcore fans, but the comparatively stiff animation - perhaps the biggest complaint - still lags clearly behind FIFA 12. Still, this is the earliest we've ever seen PES code, and the most solid it's ever looked so far from release.
Bar a complete overhaul, we doubt the animation will rival FIFA 12, but if they can take Master League to a new level, or the Champions League mode, this could yet prove a satisfying alternative; and for the truly hardcore willing to embrace Pro Evo's subtleties and peccadilloes, the former King of Footie Games and scourge of lunchtimes could well prove to be a crisper, more tactical game.
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Comments
7 comments so far...
skabone on 24 Jul '11 said:
bah....just cant see it coming back. real shame. I remember the days when pes was god. I'd play for hours with friends and couldn't be happier.......online it was attrocious tho and never captured that feeling i'd have playing with friends next to me. 2 v 2 online play one year, missing the next. outdated squads that were never updated...good looks but lag central no matter what and animations that didnt do what u asked. rubbishy unresponsive clunky controls, balls 'phasing' through players chests. goalies that regularly missed a backpass to them and put the goal in their own net with alarming regularity.
pes goalies huh - surely an articles worth there
u can put in as many ill thought out gimmicks as u want but fifa is definetly blowing this out the water. sorry - it hurts but its true. pes might be hailed as being more tactical, but only cos u can never quite get your players to do what u want them to do. until true 360 degree control happens (STILL only 16x) - well.....lets just say i'll betray pes a little longer - fifa is just more fluid and fun - although rife with online unfairness...but regarding that u still can stop the majority of exploits by being pragmatic (wingbacks, holding the ball etc...) with your team setup and style of play....pes is entrenched in yesterdays glory days like liverpool and arsenal etc. might as well stick gerrard on the cover and call it PURE pro evo...it will look that rubbish net to fifa....
talking of which....i'd forget putting messi on the cover, surely yakubu (rubbish), gazza (old and drunk) or rory delap (who?) would be more apt choices.
laminated0 on 25 Jul '11 said:
While I agree that online pes has been atrocious in recent years, I really think their game is an enjoyable alternative, if you can look past the sometimes obvious quirks and faults, but fifa is not without it's own. I think PES is beginning to turn itself around, the PES team are working to address the faults but i believe a PES every year is possibley to blame for the drop in quality. I don't think the PES team have the resources and man power that EA can put into their game, which means there just isn't time for them to rectify every complaint. I enjoyed the demo of last years game and enjoyed fifa but I didn't buy either, this year I think both look good, fifa never manages to re-capture that PES magic though, it just doesn't feel the same, but it does play a very good game of football.
2v2 online play was good on PES sad to hear they got rid, sometimes the decisions they make are baffling like how they ruined the dummy shot?? I never understood why they broke something that worked perfectly. Looking forward to being able to play the demo though the playes finally making runs etc by themselves and the other changes seem like some good building on a solid foundation.
hany3 on 26 Jul '11 said:
fifa 12 Hands On Impressions
Introduction
I wanted to write the bulk of my thoughts up fairly quickly as I’ve got exams over the next couple of weeks, so I’m getting this out there quite early. Couple of things to get out of the way first: firstly that I want to thank EA, Alistair Reid, who organised the event, and the other members of EA who were involved, incl. Dux0r and Robb who were both present and talkative. The GameChanger programme and these events are precious, and we should grasp these opportunities with both hands. They are an opportunity for both EA and the online community to work together for mutual success: so long may it continue. It was fantastic to finally meet many of the more prominent members of the FIFA community – putting faces to the words and voices: some great and productive conversations (and some less productive ones!).
What I have played is an early build (‘Pre Alpha’), and we had just two teams (Arsenal & Chelsea). The things I experienced may or may not turn out similarly in the full game, but it seems reasonable to expect that things will improve, the game will be polished and a lot of the more blatant issues will probably be eradicated. This is primarily a critique, and thus it will probably leave people with a more negative impression than fair: I am focusing on the negatives because those are the things which EA need to take heed of.
I thought it would be interesting to count against the thread I made over Christmas, The Enemies of FIFA , to see how many of the things had been touched, improved, or solved. Out of the 26 topics I can make a reasonable judgement of, I found 15 of them relatively unchanged, 6 improved, and 4 solved. It’s fair to say due to this that I’m not overwhelmed. There are a number of issues in FIFA 11 which are seriously damaging, but are nearly identical in this early build to what they were. In particular, the AI, passing, and movement are still affected by many of the same problems they were in FIFA 11. At this stage they are just as gamebreaking as they were before.
Tactical Defending
If I had to name the part of the game I’m most happy with, it has to be the way defending now works. I say that with a number of reservations, but this is a massive improvement, from a really horrid system which I believed should be torn out, to one which can certainly be built upon into a really great defensive system. To make the system work so that you actually have to tell it to tackle is gamechanging. There is no automated tackling (though players will still try to get the ball to an extent if you run directly into someone), and the automated system which the ‘press’ function has been replaced by (contain) cannot be used to tackle. It alters the game to one where the attacker is attacking, and the defender defending: you have more time on the ball, and breaking down attacks via intelligent defending and positioning is now the key rather than gung * charges. How does it work? Well, there has been a little bit of a shuffle. A/X activates the contain function (and moving the left analogue stick allows you to raise and lower the distance you are tracking the player by), and B/O will tackle. Secondary press has been replaced by Secondary Contain, and this is on now on the previously vacant RB/R1 button. From a casual perspective I fear this may be quite hard to swallow immediately – it took us all a fair while to get used to holding A, letting go of A, pressing B, and so on: it doesn’t feel quite as intuitive as many of FIFA’s features often are. It’s important I think that this feature is just right, hitting the realism and the accessibility well, so that it doesn’t turn people off: defending like this is much, much more satisfying – and steps must be taken to ensure it’s not going to become a common casual complaint. I do have a few concerns which really surround the inertia/momentum system in the game – firstly that the contain function often looks quite unnatural – the defender mirrors the attacker so perfectly and so quickly. If there is any plausibility for the new system to be exploited it will be through this, utilising the extreme reaction of the CPU to boost defensive capability.
I questioned when seeing the feature announced in the webcast whether it was even necessary, and I am almost convinced now that the contain function is liable to do more harm than good. Quite a few of the people playing around me admitted to barely using the contain function, instead opting to defend using the jockey button alone. The advantages of this to a competent player are obvious: you don’t have to deal with the fiddly letting go of A*, and you can laterally position your player much more wisely than the contain function will. The contain function places the player directly between the goal and ball, whereas you can yourself block off options and passes, force players onto the wrong foot or shepherd them in various directions using jockeying instead.
I can understand why EA may want to replace ‘press’ with something, but, at the moment it hits neither the usefulness for the experienced players, or the accessibility for the casual players which it needs to hit the right balance. The only reason I can see to use it right now, is to exploit its unreal reactions.
*example: Consider a situation where you are ‘containing’ a player who is close to you, when the attacker then pushes the ball directly at you. As you are holding A, your player will move away exactly as the attacker is moving towards you. Situations which should be nearly certain tackles become really awkward if too reliant on contain.
Movement
Momentum and inertia as a whole are still ominously missing. It is hard to say much more than that really: it affects EVERY single part of this game – and until it's sorted, this game is always going to be behind its main competitor (and reality) in a very important sense. The whole way football works is governed under real world physics, and reaction speeds – being able to subvert these is so often what makes FIFA an inadequate simulation. Whether it is making defending properly too hard, or making defending improperly too easy*, making dribbling too free, but making it really hard to get past, and away from a defender, it’s making it impossible to do so many things you see game in game out in real football. It’s something which affects every turn for every player, on the ball or not, which affects every touch, and every trap. The fact it is still missing in FIFA is absolutely ruinous to its flow, and how natural it feels.
*Defending against an attacker who can defy momentum makes for a very hard to predict job. Being able to consider where an attacker is likely to go next (or where he can easily go next) is important to being able to break down an attack; when players can run and turn with such ease, which does not come across. However, it helps a lot when you screw up, allowing defenders to turn very fast and start catching up really fast.
Little has changed in terms of players touch either, it is still all too common to see players managing ridiculous feats of control, things which only the absolute crème de le crème can achieve occasionally when it comes to trapping. When quite a lot of the hardcore have been crying out for more constraint on movement, it seems to once again (at least so far) been ignored by EA.
[b]Fatigue and stamina are equally untouched, still being a thoroughly ineffective way of penalising sprinting around like a headless chicken. The self injuries which will occasionally occur when you’ve run a player into the ground are nice, but so far it’s another year of basically no penalty for sprinting around too much, and another year where (at least on a single mach basis) there is little reason to substitute on fresher legs instead of keeping on the better player.
Precision Dribbling
EA have been talking up their new precision dribbling mechanic, which allows players to take a lot closer control when it seems contextually useful. This works as you’d expect – allowing you to make small and tight touches. It makes the region around the area easier to play in. This allows good dribblers to be more effective, something which has been called for time after time – to represent great dribbling with less need for tricks, ala Messi. Unfortunately though, because the inertia model is poor, it still isn’t feeling quite right in the sense of how you beat a defender. It still doesn’t allow the quick and fluid drop of the shoulder that PES does so well – it’s still not a case of feinting and timing the perfect moment to use a burst of pace – rather using lots of tight, quick turns to pull a defender inside out. It combines with skilled dribbling well, though I think a bit of polish still needs to be applied for the transitions in and out of skilled/precision dribbles.
Passing
Passing too seems to have taken a backseat this year. Pro Passing last year left FIFA’s passing in a limbo state, somewhere between the farce of Pro Passing and passing that would match up to the real world experience – it’s difficult to mention anything which has changed at all with passing. Simple passes are still lethargic (in particular in manual where the charge up is still sluggish, and length still madly unpredictable), and complicated passes still well within the realms of possibility. There is a lack of snappiness to simple passes – it makes it hard to play reasonable one touch football with short low angled passes. It is however barely any more difficult to pull off the 180 degree passes which I presumed Vision AI was meant to solve. It has to be questioned whether EA actually intended vision AI to affect humans, because, in my hours of playtime with FIFA 12 not once did I find it really changing the way I played, and from watching people play with all ranges of assistance, it was still almost inevitable for the spin-passes to come off.
The issues with Pro Passing that I had before still remain: error is always in terms of ‘slowness’, over hitting a pass never happens and you rarely feel a pass missed because it was too hard, rather just because the game picked the pass poorly. That leads me onto my primary criticism of assisted in the current game: the AI which chooses where the pass goes is awful. It still feels like a constraining force on good football – lateral passing is an absolute nightmare because it still loves to randomly put the ball in front or behind of a player when you’re looking for a direct pass*. I thought it was clear with FIFA 11 that the control settings and passing were still frequent, but perhaps EA feel that with Pro Passing their job was done. Not so: assisted, like the contain function, is useless for good football and primarily good because it is unrealistic. Manual has not been altered at all: making lengthy passes with manual is almost impossible due to the ridiculous charge up time, and EA have made no moves to make manual less awkward to use^.
*This is not error: making passes up and down the pitch still feel pinpoint, but it is vitally uninventive and unpredictable when it comes to making passes which you want to be direct. It seems to be constantly second guessing you: this is a side-effect of the assisted pass only really taking your input as to who to pass to.
^Like, for example, differentiating the direct pass and through pass buttons so one does short passes and one long, or fixing the erratic pass weighting when you do first-time passes, volleyed passes and so forth.
[b]Impact Engine
The other major feature EA have advertised is the impact engine – a more organic collision physics engine which radically advances the systems capabilities. The best way to describe this as it was in the play test is that it has lots of potential, but some quite big kinks. This is the kind of stuff which I am pretty certain will be improved lots before release – but at the moment the collisions do have a tendency to be a bit over the top. More worryingly there are a lot of refereeing errors and also a lot of rather glitch looking collisions, as well as too many off the ball collisions*. At the moment it would be nearly gamebreaking, but I think by release it’s likely to be showing off its potential without so many of the warts. A lot of people have made the incorrect assumption that its reach will be aesthetic, but given the way that they can now properly calculate for injuries, and the fact that players have tackle avoidance and resilience built into them, it actually does mean something in terms of game play. It is critical that EA work on the bugs, and do something to prevent the annoying off-the-ball collisions which would be better not included.
*Players seem to have far too many off the ball tussles. As opposed to just passing by each other or lightly jostling, full on collisions are occurring between players with nothing to fight for. Like this I’d be concerned that it would be easy to exploit this on Clubs by running non-ball carriers into defenders to clear paths, which would of course be both ridiculous and disastrous.
AI
As for AI, little has changed, My defensive lines were still wrecking themselves constantly – randomly deciding (completely independent of my team, tactics, or what I did) to move forward or back of the defensive line leaving holes, or playing men onside for no reason. The number of occasions I found one CB twenty yards behind the rest of the line was ridiculous: it does not feel at this stage that any major change has been made. It’s something you can work around but it’s astoundingly poor for a game which has received as many accolades as FIFA to be tactically so weak. Attacking AI is little better: it’s not offering passing support well, nor is it making incisive runs. It still feels very sluggish when it comes to pushing into attack or pulling back to defend – it’s still common to see cases when the midfield is just strolling around when they are on the wrong side of the ball, or, when the ball is near the area and they aren’t piling forward. It’s something you can improve with the custom formations and custom tactics, but not enough, and even so it’s preposterous to have a 4-4-2, the bread and butter of football, being as useless in attack and defence as it is now. The tactical depth in FIFA has been pretty inadequate for a long time, and until this is addressed it’s a massive gap which will forever prevent FIFA from being the game for the purist.
As for the CPU AI which you play against, it still seems essentially psychic. While it is much less problematic than last year due to defensive changes, it still feels that it knows what you’re about to do far, far too quickly and reacts to it far, far too quickly. The consensus which I have come to, having talked about this at length with others who were there, is that the AI seems to have knowledge of what you do on the pad before the player actually reacts. The AI needs to feel that it’s reacting (with a human reaction speed of 2 tenths of a second minimum) to the animations, rather than the button presses. The CPU should become aware of a turn as it becomes obvious that the player is turning. It is more possible to play in and up close to the CPU than it was before, but it’s tackling and dribbling skill is still inhuman. It doesn’t feel like I’m playing the same game as the CPU. That isn’t to say that it’s necessarily easier/harder than last year, but that it is still going to be a case of having to deal with the CPU at the things which it is far too good at, and exploiting what it isn’t so good at. I can’t profess to having played a huge amount of FIFA 11 against the computer but it did seem to be more varied in its approach this time around.
Excitement, Shooting, Keepers
One thing FIFA is often criticised for is its lack of excitement in the goal scoring: a lack of variety in terms of goals and a lack of atmosphere are large parts of this. The atmosphere of the game has improved a tad, with the presentation becoming more like the match-day TV presentation. But goals still feel quite predictable. Shooting is still over accurate – they rarely curl or knuckle as smashed shots so often do. More importantly for me, the goalkeepers are far too predictable, still react really fast, and they are so consistent. You can make some fantastic shots, but if they aren’t in the corners they will very rarely go in, even in cases where they should be unstoppable. I’d suggest that the shooting is made less accurate, and more dependent on good positioning*, and that the goalkeepers reactions are toned down considerably (and preferably put more of a weight into anticipatory saves). Goalkeepers still seem a little unintelligent when it comes to dealing with balls coming across them too, very rarely coming out to claim crosses.
*In that a shot when a player has been given a lot of space and isn’t being pressured should be massively more likely to go well. Most long shots in real life are scored when a player is given lots of time: this should be represented better.
Aesthetics...
Graphically the game has improved a tad, the lighting seems much more natural and this does seriously improve things. I also felt that the player faces (at least, those done with the 8-way camera tech) had taken a jump, some looking absolutely life like, like Gael Clichy's. The interface/menu has been revitalised, but the tactics menus which are probably the most in need of change remain as they were. Pre match build up involves 3d models, which is a nice and more appropriate way to see how the kits will appear when you start playing.
There are some nice aesthetic changes in terms of quick throwins, which happen without the game cutting, and drop balls if the referee blows up due to an injury. This stuff improves the authenticity and the atmosphere, but I can't help but feel that the crowd noises deserve more work and would improve the atmosphere so much more. The crowd noises are improved in terms of noise, but there is still none of that sudden excitement and rush when a team are on a breakaway or about to score - the changing of tempo and pitch which characterise watching a football match.
To Conclude...
I suppose in conclusion I’m not exactly overawed with what I played with FIFA 12. If you can tolerate FIFA 11’s problems, then I’m sure they won’t annoy you here either, but those who are disillusioned with the status quo will not be won over without some serious improvements in the next few months. Bugs aside, there are still some gaping design flaws. This is not the definitive football sim, and it can never be when it’s tactical depth is so negligible and when every turn and touch defies physical logic. It isn’t that EA haven’t done some good stuff this year, they have more so than in 09, 10, or 11: Precision dribbling, Vision AI, and tactical defending are all really crucial alterations which implement things that FIFA 11 sorely missed: but these elements do need some tweaking and tuning if they are to hit the mark. It does not meet up to the revolution tag line EA have pushed – there are small areas which are revolutionary – but the game itself is still FIFA, and it still feels like FIFA. That is a good thing in some areas, but in many cases it’s a continuation of poor gameplay mechanics.
FIFA is technically magnificent, but so often misses the basics which make football a beautifully flowing, exciting, atmospheric and strategic sport. FIFA 12 has made some of the necessary steps: if they can build on what I've seen so far, and deal with the problems listed above and below, then FIFA 12 could be great. At the moment though, it's not going to change many people's mind one way or the other.
Priority Changes which need to be addressed
• Defensive AI – simply gamebreaking
• Attacking AI – lacks of variety
• CPU AI Psychic Nature –severely damaging to single player
• Momentum/Inertia/Touch –key issue in FIFA’s lack of realism
• Passing – lethargic when it should be simple, still far too possible to make ridiculous passes
Other Issues
• On-the-ball movement penalty needs to be decreased
• Heading needs to be less of a 1 on 1 event
• Shooting accuracy to be decreased
• Goalkeeper reaction speeds decreased
hany3 on 26 Jul '11 said:
So for those who didn't know, on July the 11th a small group got to go to Guildford to playtest FIFA 12's career mode and gameplay. We had opportunity to play the PC, PS3, and 360 games, with almost any team in the game, and were given freedom to alter the assistance and gameplay options. The build we were playing with was a few weeks older than the builds we'd played before (we'd actually played Career mode at the same time as the last test but this was embargoed), so there is a fair amount of new information. I won't go over stuff which hasn't changed unless I feel it is particularly warranted, so my previous gameplay hands on is here: click here.
I'd like to once again thank EA for their hospitality and time. This time around David Rutter (line producer) and Ian Jarvis (PC) were present, so it gave us some opportunity to discuss things directly with people at the head of FIFA. Hopefully then, things we passed on will get listened to. In terms of getting feedback regarding gameplay and career mode passed on, I think we did pretty well. The ball is certainly in EA's court with that one and I feel that we represented this communities' feelings pretty well.
Gameplay
It's safe to say that I wasn't overwhelmed with the gameplay on display last time. Aside from a host of bugs and glitches, I didn't feel that some of the new additions quite hit home, but more importantly far too many things which were problematic in FIFA 11 were still present in all their glory. Unfortunately (and perhaps not surprisingly) not a huge amount has changed since then. Polish has generally improved considerably and there is still a long way to go with that.
Impact Engine
In June I left fearing somewhat that the Impact Engine could well release as a badly buggy addition - there were considerable problems with glitchy interactions, and occasionally shocking refereeing decisions. The improvement over the last couple of weeks (a lot of the glitchiness had been eradicated) renews my confidence and while there were still some odd refereeing decisions it looks well on track. The only major concern with this is that the off the ball collisions are still happening all over the place. The potential exploitability of this in OTP/Clubs is tremendous, so EA really need to come up with a solution to this fast. Ideally we need to move to a situation where players who are off the ball don't try to stand strong against eachother - and rather brush past eachother.
Flair Passing
Unfortunately, the biggest change between June and July was something I cannot praise at all. The new flair passing, activated by the left trigger and the various pass buttons, causes your player to do the same kind of skill type passes that used to happen with only players with the flair trait, in specific contexts, and with not a huge degree of predictability. The new flair passing on the other hand has almost no restrictions whatsoever. Any player, any context, immediate and ridiculous flair passes, with seemingly similar accuracy as normal passes. It sounds like this is caused by a bug - I suspect it's meant to be only for players with the correct traits, but even so, I really don't want to see half the Barcelona team doing this stuff for every pass, and that's what this will turn into. The error needs to be tuned up even for the best players. I should feel that a flair pass is risky, regardless of who it is with - the advantage is one of style, or, one of fooling your opponent, and that needs to be balanced. These are things which happen a few times a match with the creme de le creme - it must not be every pass.
It is not just that it seems to be completely unaffected by error, or the player doing it, there is also something deeply questionable by design. The left trigger is used for far too many things for it to be a modifier like this - for anyone trying to an intricate pass and move game, the left trigger is critical. It acts as the trap/turn button, so that as you get the ball you turn on it without moving, and the slow movement modifier. It's therefore very difficult to be letting go of LT as you pass when you don't want to do a flair pass (which would always be most of the time). I don't see the point of it. It seems to be put in there to please those who want to replicate the antics of Hjerpseth et al. but even if they radically reduce the ability for lesser players to do this, I feel the use of the left trigger button is really naive, especially given that for direct/through passes the RB button is spare. The left trigger button is also used to indicate you want to volley, and that seems fine from the small number of times I tried using it. It's really quite good to finally be able to remove the ambiguity of whether you want to volley or head.
AI, Passing, Movement
The problems I outlined in my original hands on with AI, passing, and movement mechanics remain, so make sure to read/reread as appropriate if interested in those areas. However, David Rutter did enlighten us somewhat in regards to AI. Firstly, we had ample opportunity to make our feelings about the AI's hyper-reaction and almost mind-reading like ability to David Rutter, so hopefully that will get listened to. If it isn't, however much career mode comes on this year, it will be let down entirely by the unrealistic, personalityless and dull AI which simply feels like it's not playing the same game to you.
In terms of the defensive and attacking team AI, David Rutter informed us that this is one of the absolute last things which they dial in, so hopefully it will be improved quite a lot before release. I still think it's a bit concerning that EA aren't doing this at an earlier stage - it's not like the AI has been a strong suit over the last few years (FIFA 12's AI currently is pretty much FIFA 11's afterall), but given that we have a pretty solid promise that there will be considerable change in this area, we just have to trust that and hope.
Vision AI is still more or less invisible, perhaps this is something which isn't properly tooled into the game at this stage, but as one of EA's bigger gameplay announcements it is fairly disappointing to not really sense this on the ball or off it. I am still not entirely sure whether Vision AI is actually intended to have an effect on the controlled player, but I'll hopefully find the answer out to this soon. Certainly, if it doesn't, I'd be fairly disapponted as at the very least I expected this to eradicate some of the 180 degree pass accuracy that still plagues FIFA. So far, I don't sense it, and, I'm not sure I'd notice Vision AI had I not been told to look for it.
Sliders
Sliders are indeed going to make their appearance in the game for FIFA 12, which will please a lot of people. On the face of it a lot of the things which I feel are somewhat wrong with FIFA do have sliders so you can fiddle with them. I suspect that this area of the game may see some quite big shakeups before release and now, as they do feel unfinished to a large extent. I do have some concerns though, first, as a matter of usability, it feels quite clumsy. There are a good 20 or so sliders, from error sliders and speed sliders to power bar charge speeds and acceleration, but none of these have any reference to them. You have a bar with maybe 50 settings on them, with the default stuck directly in the middle. The sliders at the moment have such considerable play in them, and it's difficult to guess what the effect of the sliders will be (with some it's not obvious which direction on the bar will correlate with an increase/decrease in the effect too). You can set each slider differently for the user and the AI - but unfortunately these are done on two seperate menu with no 'mirror' function, so it's awkward to replicate the settings for both you and the CPU.
Unfortunately at this moment, these sliders are not going to realise the dream of allowing one to fix FIFA or make it more realistic. The sliders do not give you enough control over enough areas to affect things in the way you'd want. For example, if I wanted to alter the passing error, I can only increase/decrease the amount of error. I have no way of dictating what is causing the error, or how that error is represented, and thus if I try to increase the directional error on the passes as I believe should happen, what it tends to mean is that passes become more lethargic and more bouncy long before you get the desired directional effect. There are some tweaks and touches you'd be able to improve, but it's minimal so far, and currently I feel that a lot more thought will have to be put into how these sliders work (or, a massive increase in the sliders available) if they are going to supply the potential for a simulation. I'm also slightly worried that there are a few different sliders right now which affect things like defensive AI (line depth, width, full back positioning and so on). These feel like they should not be gameplay sliders so much as tactical settings. At the moment, these will be things you can use to improve FIFA a smidgeon here and a smidgeon there. They will not open up the possibilities some have hoped for in terms of setting trading to perfect a simulation of the game.
Some of what these revealed was also quite worrying. The passing error slider only affects ground passes, and the shooting error slider does not affect finesse shots. This not only means that the two areas which are probably most wrong (lobbed passes and finesse shots) are not slider-alterable, but it perhaps also implies that the way error is handled on these works in a different way to how it is for normal shots/passes. As both finesse shots and long passes/lobbed through balls are far too accurate, that perhaps is reason. The simple question of why 180 degree clearances with the long pass button seem to land at the strikers feet every time may be answered very simply by that: there is (basically) no contextual error on long passes and chipped through balls.
Shooting
Ball physics are generally really good, though finesse shots are still the clear exception, and shooting has a good ping to it. The goalkeepers still having over-the-top reaction times means that far too many unstoppable shots get saved with far too much predictability - and I'd still suggest that AI move to reduce shooting accuracy (in particular for assisted/semi) while at the same time reducing goalkeeper reaction, to keep the goal scoring in balance while hopefully radically increasing the enjoyability and variety of goals (as well as having the nice side effect of balancing the assisted-semi-manual issue).
Heading feels good, but still deeply flawed by the fact that it seems that just one player on each team is allocated to go for the ball, and this could well mean that heading will be overpowered again (and I think crossing is still looking quite over-accurate, there are still remarkably few occasions of crosses going long, and they all too often seem to be perfectly aimed onto the attackers head. It still feels preordained, and out of your control. The winner of the header is usually dictated primarily by the luck of which defensive player is picked to head the ball. A striker surrounded by four defenders seems no less likely to win the header than one who is marked by just one, such is the problem with this one on one system.
Tactical Defending
The new defensive system could still do with a little work in terms of its intuitiveness, but I think people will grasp it within time. I hope that by FIFA 13 they will manage to remove the contain system too, but until they make considerable alterations to the way the CPU AI reactions work and to the player weight/momentum/inertia, it would probably be somewhat disastrous. The system thus far just doesn't quite feel natural, but it's a big step in the right direction, and worlds better than the pressure fest of FIFA 11, even if it is still a long way from being perfected. Frankly, I still think it could feel better if they swapped the buttons around a bit. Having the tackle button as X/A, contain as R1/RB, and secondary contain as B or O, would be an easy way of removing a part of the learning curve. It is a pity, but EA seem to have once again caved to the fear of a casual revolt by putting an assistance option to revert back to the old defending style. Online I suspect this will be forced off, like with pro passing assistance, but it's another sign of EA not having the confidence to push people to try something new which takes time to get used to on the grounds that it's better.
and finally
Tactical and strategic setup is still a real weakpoint, but is patently something which will have to be for FIFA 13 at the earliest - nothing has really changed in this area, so the sluggish and clumsy tactical side of FIFA, which should really be at the heart of the gameplay, still remains one of its weakest areas. Having said that, there is a small but nice addition here where, instead of swapping players on and off the bench by scrolling up and down endlessly, you can press triangle/Y on the player you want to swap out, and then you can press left/right (which brings up a compare) to show alternative players to put in that spot. Really neat, and definitely saves a lot of time.
At the end of my last hands on I listed a bulleted list of what I thought needed to be changed, though the game has improved since last test, the list remains identical to previously, with one big addition, and one small.
Priority Changes which need to be addressed
• Flair passing – so arcadey
• Defensive AI – simply gamebreaking
• Attacking AI – lacks of variety
• CPU AI Psychic Nature –severely damaging to single player
• Momentum/Inertia/Touch –key issue in FIFA’s lack of realism
• Passing – lethargic when it should be simple, still far too possible to make ridiculous passes
Other Issues
• On-the-ball movement penalty needs to be decreased
• Heading needs to be less of a 1 on 1 event
• Shooting accuracy needs to be decreased
• Goalkeeper reaction speeds need to be decreased
• Some work really needs to be done to long pass and finesse shot accuracy
Career Mode
We were able to play career mode and though no-one got hugely far into it, between the two days I've had time to play CM I feel quite positive about what I've seen. The consensus amongst the group was that, while FIFA 11's CM was severely below satisfactory, the new attempt is more than passable. It's not FIFA's strongest point, but it's certainly not its weakest anymore, and in fact I feel that the gameplay is probably letting CM down more than the mechanics specific to CM. I'm not a massive CM buff (as simply put the last few efforts have kept me from getting interested in it), so I won't go into too much depth.
For the first year in a while, I could actually envisage playing this years CM, at least, if the CPU AI gets to the point where I could enjoy playing against it long term. The new interface is mostly really smooth, but let down badly in some specific areas. The email screen is as boring as you could imagine and could really do with some optimisation, as far too much time is spent going in and out of messages and the email itself. The way news stories are represented though is excellent, and, assuming that the stories do not become repetitive, they should make sure that you feel part of a football world, rather than slogging through match after monotonous match. The commentary is at its absolute best here too - the new commentary team(s) seem to have quite a lot of lines which refer to how the career is going, and it benefits quite a lot from an increased attention to man management, as players will make their feelings known to you regarding your management and their position in the squad.
Form and morale return, and player stats have been made massively easier to interpret and compare as they are now colour coded. The new 'squad report' screen allows a much more in depth look at each player, all his attributes shown on one page, and on another page it details his current form, morale, and how he's doing on the pitch. It's a huge pity that this way of showing all stats on one page has not been replicated across the game, and most of the time you are looking at player stats, it is still a case of scrolling through many pages. FIFA is still a game which struggles when it comes to screen space management, and slow menus - a lot of space is still not used around the edge of the screen, and FIFA is in desperate need of a better way of quickly showing you a players stats. The hexagon/pentagon based representation which is used in PES, is something it could definitely do with, and this is something which has been passed on, so hopefully next year it shall be there.
The transfer/loan system has been improved, with you now being able to offer to loan players who aren't listed as loanable, and, being able to stall on decisions. Unfortunately there is still no option to offer players + cash, nor player swaps, and you cannot demand a particular price from clubs who are looking to buy either. A lot of work has surrounded transfer deadline day which is presented wonderfully, and now allows you to go hour by hour to make some last minute deals, and it's great to see so many visual touches similar to real world transfer deadline day on the TV (like the player in/player out for each club which rotates throughout the day).
The youth scouting function will be your way of getting in on new players, and the youth players you find will be randomly generated. You can select a region to scout in and specify what type of player you want to search for, and you can have up to three scouts at the same time. Every so often the scouts will come up with some suggestions of players you can pick, who can be as young as 14, who will then join your youth academy. You get an estimate of their overall, and over time you start getting estimates of their statistics, which hone in over time as you get the decision of whether to take them on or ditch them. There is no normal scouting system however (though there is still the scout picks on the transfer search), and hopefully this is something they'll look into for next year.
The biggest let down right now is certainly the sluggishness. The amount of time it takes to fiddle with your formation, to receive bids, to go through the days (especially in the transfer window) is frustrating, and simming games is as minimal as it could possibly be still.
But what FIFA 12 represents is a satisfactory manager mode. One which, in itself, is enjoyable, and lively enough to make it feel like more than a series of games against the CPU. When it comes to the enjoyability of CM, I feel that the CPU AI is more likely to be a problem than the mode itself, which is solidly made though there is still a lot further to go. It does give me a lot of confidence in next years version too - EA are on the right track and from a couple of conference calls with Humber and others on the CM team, I think FIFA 13 could have a very good career mode indeed. CM will not be the gem in FIFA 12's achievements, nor is it the quality of Football Manager, but it's getting there.
Conclusion
There is still time for FIFA 12 to go from being a game which is better than FIFA 11 to being a really great football sim. The career mode is coming along nicely, and even though there is simply no way it's going to be 'great' this year, it's looking that it may well manage to be 'good'. The gameplay problems are primarily AI based, so hopefully the AI will improve once they start working on it towards the end of the cycle. It's always difficult to estimate how much people will like something, but I'll give it a go, splitting it dependent on how people feel about FIFA 11:
Someone who is still enjoying FIFA 11
Will find that the game they like has improved, but not in any drastic way. It's still FIFA, but hopefully some of the frustrations have been removed, and hopefully the new defensive system will revolutionise the way people have to play in defence. The precision dribbling and impact engine will likely give you a lot of extra fun.
Someone who is finding FIFA 11 frustrating
Is likely to still find some of their frustrations in FIFA 12 - some have gone, but many remain. The newness of the title may give a few months of joy, but after that I suspect it will be back to feeling the frustration.
Someone who is teetering between FIFA11 & PES 2011
May well find that another year of slow change in key areas is a bit of a last straw
Someone who prefers PES 2011 to FIFA 11
Likely to not have their mind changed a huge amount. Still lacks in key areas
So that's it really - some may find this pretty depressing, but it's only an estimate from an eternal pessimist. Naturally I'll be happy to answer questions as best I can, on career mode, and gameplay, and I'll make sure to add anything I've forgotten to the thread if I remember. I'm not really into discussing boots and hair though, so you know.
hany3 on 26 Jul '11 said:
this is the worst pes 2012 review i've ever read
unbalanced and biased toward fifa
i posted above a review for fifa 12 from official EA forum
this is whay reviews should be
another point i just read teh word "fifa 12 " in this review more than "pes 2012" what a joke !
laminated0 on 27 Jul '11 said:
i took the time to read that whole preview you posted (not all at once though lolalso these are previews not reviews) and I must say compared to that preview this does seem very sparse, but to be fair I don't think they had as much time with the game as the fifa guy who posted that preview. PES 2012 does look very good this year and from other previews ive read elsewhere it does seem like it will be a good game.
MatTheCat on 16 Sep '11 said:
Who the hell is this stupid f-ing reviewer?
Firstly, he states that PES 2011 saw some of the biggest overhalls to the game even (I mean wtf
), and then he bleats on about only minor changes being made to the game engine without ever bothering to mention that Konami have added the ability to completely control a 2nd man off the ball and run him into any space/direction that you wish. This feature works a treat and is a massive game changing addition to the series, offering a level of gameplay possibility that FIFA with all its bells and whisltes simply cannot touch.
This reviewer has cleary not done his job properly and in effect is misinforming his readers. I think he should be sacked.