Nintendo's Legend Of Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma has suggested that the motion-controlled swordplay of Skyward Sword will feature in future Zelda titles.
Skyward Sword maps the gamer's motions with the Wii Remote to Link's sword arm, and deliberate direction-based swipes play a key role in defeating the game's enemies and bosses.
This is clearly a system Aonuma is pleased with. "So," he added, "I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."
That's interesting because the key innovation of the Wii U hinges entirely on its tablet controller. If a future Zelda title on that platform required Wii Remote controls it would, we assume, abandon use of the tablet controller and, with it, any Wii U-specific features other than the increased graphical grunt.
Hmm...
Comments
58 comments so far...
TheCrimsonFenix on 12 Dec '11 said:
I'm sorry but to suggest the game wouldn't work the same on a traditional controller is just total bulls**t. You may have more control over specific movements your net/sword makes but it doesn't change the fact you're still just slashing an enemy in the same few ways. Don't get me wrong, the game is great but it's not exactly technically superior to other games when it sticks to the same idea that a lot of games have when striking enemies with a sword or staff or whatever. You may have total control control over a net to catch a bug but it still boils down to timing it right and waving forward. That is no different to timing a button press or even a forward stick movement. Same with balance mini games which can easily be done on sticks. The Wii controller is plainly just a traditional controller split into two with a lightgun thrown into the mix. The Wii has great games but it's talk like this that I can't take seriously when that not at all revolutionary control method was one of two things next to the Nintendo library that sold the console for the majority.
Reegeee on 12 Dec '11 said:
I've not played it yet but I was under the impression that the strategy behind the motion controlled combat was about how you actually swung the wiimote, as in it takes into account the angle and height of the strike. If it works as well as most say then if you went back to buttons then I think you would have to combine button presses with dpad directions which would affect the movement controls.
So yeah, potentially I might agree with him.
ste hicky on 12 Dec '11 said:
my tuppence: classic controls are entirely dead in the zelda series and i would be heartbroken to have to go backwards now. it's not even a debate, the old ways are redundant. zelda has now become something else.
buttons and classic controls may work in future zelda games but it will be utterly s**t compared to what nintendo have just achieved with skyward sword.
i don't think i've ever meant a post on this site more.
i'm praying that a wii u port of skyrim will be announced so i can do some of the same things there too, it would take skyrim to another plane entirely.
btw 'fenix it's actually far more than just the sword and bug net, the entire game is built on motion. you're making it sound a tad limited there man tbh.
greatno on 12 Dec '11 said:
Would be good to use the Wii U Tablet as a map while using the Wiimote and Nunchuck for actual gameplay.
TheCrimsonFenix on 12 Dec '11 said:
Not limited, just realistic as to what it can actually do and not exaggerating what it can do. Whether you're doing it through an accurate (at most times) motion controller or on a traditional controller, you're still largely doing what can already be done through other means such as analog sticks. Maybe some people find it difficult to do a simple button and directional press but I don't see how it is to be honest. I see too that people say it breaks immersion to use a button.. you're still playing a game with non-realistic looks. Exactly how is it immersing you to the point you're forgetting it's a game is beyond me. Twilight Princess is proof that it can work on both control methods, I'm just not buying this "can't work, won't work" talk. If people can't play with buttons after this then I guess that's up to them. To each their own.
Cogglesz on 12 Dec '11 said:
:O No way, i think this should be optional atleast, there are times we don't want to wave controllers about!
ste hicky on 12 Dec '11 said:
as long as nintendo don't gimp the experience for the likes of me then fine, they can offer an option to the people who want to press x or z, etc...
fenix i still say you're limited understanding of it is unfortunately clouding your judgement here man. what about the whip, or skydiving or the balancing on tightropes or the pointer free (btw) bow, beetle, etc... that's entirely using motion controls, or bowling bombs at targets or the harp, let's not forget flying either or the roller coaster rides with leaning for inertia and i could go on for quite a while here man.
it's not hype to say it's far more than merely sword, shield and bugnet on motion.
try the game for a while, see what ya think. i'm certainly not the only person who thinks this way, most reviews said the same thing.
quick thought: people have accused me of being a stick in the mud and they are right, i don't like change at all (i won't move beyond snes mario kart people), but i am more than willing to never see classic control again in zelda and that's my favourite series on earth that i've been playing for more than 20 years.
i'm sorry people, it's over. there's no going back.
Cazy008 on 12 Dec '11 said:
1. The Wii U controller is not a tablet..For the last frikin time.
2. He can't possibly mean every zelda game in the future because the handheld ones are not likely to use motion controll if you ask me.
charliecheswick on 12 Dec '11 said:
First off,i'll say that i have to wait until Christmas for Skyward Sword. I've not seen a lot of footage as i've avoided all trailers and video like the amorous glances of a fat lass at closing time. It's a big decision to make for Nintendo,are they really going to discard the new Wii U controller for their best franchise? I thought the E3 demo looked fantastic and can see how the touchscreen would benefit gameplay,also,one of the Wii U's heralded features is to stream the game straight onto the controller screen,hmmmmmm. I think they would have to give the option of motion or traditional controls for Wii U Zelda.
Knight on 12 Dec '11 said:
I don't believe you have played Zelda:SS with the Motion+ and if that's the case then your opinion has no basis. SS does not play like TP in the slightest.
You know, it's not even worth me spending any more time debating it, anyone who's played SS will know it would be a step backwards to do away with motion control and instead map sword swipes to a button-press. The game is simple more immersive & accessible.
Not sure how Nintendo are going to play this though With Zelda:U.
Balladeer on 12 Dec '11 said:
I completely agree with the topic title. The motion controls give Skyward Sword the best battle system of any Zelda ever. Of course, a cynic could say that you're just choosing to slash in one of eight directions, or thrust, or spin, or jump, but that instantly adds another layer of complexity to a game which has always been either "wait for the opening and hit lots" or "counter the attack and hit lots". (Of course those feature too.) And there is the added immersion. Yes there is, don't sneer. You actually feel it's you slashing up that robot totem, feedback or no feedback. I suppose you could try to mimic the experience with a second stick, but... it'd be rubbish.
I get the impression that a lot of the people saying that motion controls are worse haven't tried SS. They might have tried Move or Kinect or the original remote, but this is an entirely different kettle of fish. (Well maybe not to Move, because I've never tried that, but given that most of its control seems to come from the blue ball on the end I stand by my statement unless proved wrong.) So please, try before you moan. It's not perfect, mostly because of the lack of camera control (the WiiU needs a remote with a stick, or one of those 3DS thumbpad thingies), but it's better than what's come before.
And Phoneix, I think it's ironic that you mention TP as a Zelda which worked "both ways". I love TP to bits, but no it didn't. On the Wii, the motion controls were hurried and the button layout rushed. The swordplay was designed for a button approach and boy, did it feel like it. And I think this is why I disagree with you and Cogglesz (and Charlie), saying that both approaches should be catered for - at least one will be gimped. Design a game around buttons and the motion control will be shabby. Design a game around motion control and getting the sword to hit all those different ways will be difficult, if not impossible. Focus needs to be on one or the other. Of course, if there's a way I'd be happy to hear it, but I haven't even got onto bowling the bombs yet...
One point the article makes which is interesting is how to use both the remote and the WiiU tablet. I think this'll have to be a game where you use one or the other. Either that or the tablet lies on the table/floor, and you mark your map or have an entirely separate game on there. Maybe there'll be two Links, one controlled with the pad and one with the remote at different times. Hey, now everyone's (un)happy!
TheCrimsonFenix on 12 Dec '11 said:
All those weapons and actions you have mentioned there can be done on an analog stick and a button too and stick to the same principle of the other things I have mentioned. I understand you love the game and that's your opinion but not everyone is going to think of it as the revolutionary traditional control ending experience as you seem to think. They won't gimp the experience for you because there's nothing to be gimped. If that traditional method choice of control that games such as New Super Mario Bros Wii has is basically being thrown out the window, then the experience is being gimped for people who just aren't interested in motion control. That's overreacting though because if people want to play the game badly enough, they'll adapt to the small change.
Its not hype to say its just swish swish, but it is to suggest the motion control has made traditional control obsolete. Dismiss that as complete bulls**t all you want, that's entirely up to you if you want to be that ignorant. There is no right or wrong way about it. It all comes down to preference and impression from experience.
ste hicky on 12 Dec '11 said:
ignorance?
are you kidding me man?
look there's no mention of mario, starfox and the rest: aonuma works on zelda, this is about zelda's future, while nigh on everyone who has tried the game has fell in love with it. i'm not the only one extolling it's virtue here fenix.
anyway, listen or don't fenix, it's not a discussion fella.
i just don't think you know what you're on about.
peace.
charliecheswick on 12 Dec '11 said:
Good idea. Stick the inventory on there too and free-up the Wii remote buttons for more precise actions. Suppose we'll find out in five years time!
Balladeer on 12 Dec '11 said:
Fenix, you talk about everything being perfectly doable without motion controls. Ignore my previous post if you want, but answer me this: have you played SS? Yes/no?
TheCrimsonFenix on 12 Dec '11 said:
Well yes, you would say that when you're being backed up by someone else, people tend to do that when they're agreed with. Yes, ignorance because you're refusing to see anyone else's opinion just because you enjoy yourself with your preference and dismiss me as not knowing what I am talking about. Just one definition of ignorance right there. I have listened and I have explained why I'm thinking the way I'm thinking. Enjoy the game all you want but when you're proclaiming something is practically dead and call for a permanent change to a control method that's tried and tested to work the functions seen in SS all because you enjoyed it.. yeah, ignorance. No offence but I'm glad you're not part of the big game companies. We'd all be having to put up with what you want.
Enjoy the game all you want, I know I've been doing. I'm out of this discussion because I can't honestly put it any simpler than I have already. Feel free to pitchfork mob me out of the thread if you want. Love your preferences people. If you enjoy yourselves, that's all that matters.
ste hicky on 12 Dec '11 said:
Stryker89 on 12 Dec '11 said:
I'd love for the gameplay in Skyward Sword to continue on to future titles in the franchise, it worked perfectly. However, the environments in SS were a major let-down for me. For me, the perfect Zelda experience would combine the gameplay from SS with the scope and sense of discovery from Wind Waker. Although perhaps without the tedious sailing sections...
ste hicky on 12 Dec '11 said:
right, i've stopped laughing now, serious head on for a sec. peace fenix. we'll just never see eye to eye here.
to everyone else who will visit the board. LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR.,Please.
the rest of the industry can do what it likes, i really don't give a flying f**k.
if NINTENDO use classic control after SKYWARD SWORD in the ZELDA series it will be seen as a regression.
get it?
nintendo. zelda. context.
Izo on 12 Dec '11 said:
Tbh the is no way they can go back to traditional controls for console Zeldas after SWS, it would be a severe downgrade as that was 40% or so of the experience some, the immersion it added had a large impact on the gameplay. Wii U will use and very possibly be packed with a Wiimote.
Lol at Fenix's stance, using buttons and motions doesn't give the same experience as each other, doesn't matter if one can do what the other does as that's not the point of motion controls.
Knight on 12 Dec '11 said:
I've not played Skyrim yet (getting it for Xmas), but am I right in saying that you have no control of the sword swipes?
Does any other action/adventure games that doesn't use motion control map precise swipes to a second analogue? No? Is it not possible to do it convincingly?
That's why going back to buttons is a step backwards. Motion+ improved the sword fighting/puzzle solving experience.
MD1500 on 12 Dec '11 said:
I agree entirely.
Motion control really adds a level of depth to Zelda. And SS was amazing for a first attempt. No doubt Nintendo will expand and improve and refine the work they've done here for future Zeldas. And let's face it, we're talking about a game here that will be out in 2014 - if we're lucky. WiiUMotion++ may well be invented by then.
For everyone else that dislikes the new direction, well, I'm pretty sure the 3DS Zeldas will still use buttons.
Good on Nintendo for constantly trying to push gaming forward.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
I feel the exact opposite. It often doesn't work as intended. I'm constantly resetting the reticle as the screen drifts to the side if I change my seating position, and I find myself constantly having to think about what I'm doing with the controller which, far from its intended purpose of immersing you in the game world, throws me crashing out of it.
The swordplay is fun to start but gets frustrating, especially when, as it very often does, the game interprets a physical 'wind-up' motion as a premature slash on a different plane to the one you were trying to get your arm in position for in the first place. You can't be precise and quick. It makes 'flailing' just as, if not more effective than trying to be precise, which kind of defeats the point.
The bowling has been no fun at all. It's imprecise and nothing but frustrating unless I stand up to do it. I don't want to stand up to play a game, I play to relax. Same goes for the flying and most other related interactions with regards to being imprecise or having to physically move body position to cater to the remote. It means I'm constantly thinking about the remote rather than the actual game itself which, again, kills any immersion I may have had. I just find myself constantly longing for a classic controller option.
As I put it elsewhere - It's like drifting off into an amazing dream in the back of the car only to hit bumps in the road every few yards jarring you awake.
I understand people wanting to sing its praises but saying it couldn't be translated to pad without one or the other losing out is bulls**t. I've seen nothing during all my time with this game that couldn't have been effectively mapped to a classic controller. There's absolutely no reason to not have control options in the future and please everyone.
Izo on 13 Dec '11 said:
Sounds to me Ideal that the problem may be down to you doing text book mistakes here as the only people who I here having problems are those who don't know how to use WMP properly. Constantly resetting means that you are setting yourself up in a poor neutral set up and not comfartable with and moving out of your neutral position constantly an example is some people play the game constantly pointing at the screen then they lean back and they don't return their hands to their original neutral postion after a motion, normally it's best to just position yourself in your preferred set up then set the cursor, I have my Wiimote to the side and don't have to move to suit and I've found it easier to play while not pointing the Wiimote and don't really need to reset.
Incorrect motions is another classic one as people think fast swings are what's needed when in fact a calm casual motion is what you have to do otherwise you're actually sending more then one command to the Wiimote. An easy example is the thrust motion, I constantly got wrong moves because I was trying to do it fast then when I did it more slowly the command came out perfectly each time the same with other moves, the reason for this is people don't realize how sensitive WMP is it picks up on the slightest movement so when you try to be slick and do fast movements it picks up your initial movements leading to people flailing and not getting the right commands.
The bowling is also another one people don't understand, you hold the Wiimote pointing up or down to change the stance of Link then you do a simple flick (downwards for throw upwards for roll), people mess this one up by using too much motion. People aren't just singing it's praise for the sake of it when the player fully understands how to play it's far better then buttons.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
I know perfectly well how to set it up, calibrate it and use it, as well as to experiment with movements. Suggesting otherwise, and assuming that my concerns are due to me 'DOIN IT RONG', is patronising.
Izo on 13 Dec '11 said:
It's not patronising as a fair number of people have had problems only to sort them when given the same suggestions, what is patronising is you suggesting people just want to sing it's praise. playing like you're using a pointer has been the number 1 text book mistake, reviews wouldn't of been as positive if they had the same problems as you.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
You assuming that my issues are down to missuse and dismissing them as such rather than asking if that could be the problem is what was patronising. I'm neither a child nor a technotarded moron. I've been on the test teams for a couple of WM+ titles, I have a fair idea of how it works. People have happily stated their gushing praise for the controls, all I've done is state my preference for pad and an explaination as to why.
And I never said "people just want to sing its praise", I conceded I can see why people would want to, but suggested (in a less than subtle way, admittedly) that they not do it at the expense of regular pad just for the sake of strengthening their point.
I'm also stuck writing these on my ipad thanks to a dead PC, so please forgive me if I haven't gone into enough detail.
ste hicky on 13 Dec '11 said:
just wrapped up a sesh on it.
hard to argue with parts of that ideal but i couldn't say i've had as many problems man and couldn't feel stronger about not wanting to use a pad in zelda again. the aiming cursor point is fair, i've mentioned myself that i feel aiming isn't as stable as if nintendo just used the pointer.
however, i'm pushing 100 hours on it now and i'm besotted frankly to the point that every time i pick skyrim up i put it down as soon as i press x. yep, i think SS has killed traditional control myself and for some reason i can make this game sing.
the little things like being able to throw a skyward strike out on a diagonal/horizontal plane and cut all the grass at once is a joy for me and i have never felt as empowered in a game as i do in SS' final fight.
never. in all my years.
respect your opinion though, apart from the "bulls**t" part.
i truly feel i've glimpsed the future of the series here.
Izo on 13 Dec '11 said:
Simple fact is Ideal how is it most people have had minor problems at most yet you claim the controls are unresponsive and don't work often, as someone who has played heavily through the game and gone through the same learning curve the post doesn't come across as someone doing things right, it's not really an explanation at all. You can have a preference yes but that post seems more like you're unsure on how to really play with WMP, comments like you have to stand up and move around, how is it everyone else is playing it while relaxed then.
At the end of the day the majority seem to get on with the approach fine and agree with Aonuma and I'd rather them sacrifice standard controls to get the most out of MC if it comes to it, could care less about what games you've tested as each company use WMP differently it's not the same for every game.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
Again, you're implying that I don't like it because I don't know what I'm doing - which I've already said isn't the case - and using sweeping statements to do so, which is quite annoying.
I fear we're just going to be treading the same ground as this goes on and unfortunately the awkwardness of my current forum input method far outweighs my desire to do so.
Izo on 13 Dec '11 said:
If you're unable to explain your view as you say due to input then what other impression are you going to give? I'm at a loss on why you'd need to stand and adjust your body around for example it sounds bizarre.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
I don't understand your first sentence.
In my usual game playing position (slouched in the middle of the settee) effective under arm bowling is impossible unless i stand up or lean far forward. I have to move. Moving my arm up while still sitting, rotating my hand over so the remote points down, twisting it to aim then flicking it to bowl rarely garners reliable results, it's more reliable to lean forward or stand up. Both of those work but both contribute to dragging me out of the game and onto the controller.
You seem to assume that I'm too stupid to have tried every possible movement option, both slight and severe as well as stood, sat, slouched, leaning and all things in between to find something that works. I'm not. It may as well have been a test script I was following every time a new weapon/mechanic was introduced.
Maybe I should stick a video of me playing on youtube so you can tell me exactly how wrong I'm doing it.
So yes, I'm constantly aware that I have a controller in my hand.
I would like the option to play on a classic controller.
Over arm throwing is fine.
Izo on 13 Dec '11 said:
I'm still unsure on why standing is needed, I don't even need to point the Wiimote all the way down or up(literally I just tilt it) and Link changes stance I even lean back when I'm playing, are you actually doing a bowling motion as it only requires a flick of the wrist? If so either you have a faulty WMP (which is possible if you're using the Gold Wiimote as some have been reported as faulty) or something is causing interference, the's a video on youtube with someone displaying motions in SWS, not a lot of movement is actually required.
My mistake earlier but it's a common problem among players of SWS early on as how the game works is that the MP follows your movement and the player does casual motions to trigger commands which are preset (which is why you can't do curved slashes), so many people doing fast movements like with the thrust tend to move their hand in one direction before they thrust and the Wii picks up that initial motion and executes the closest command to it.
I had this problem during the early stages of the game then my friend just told me to think of the first playthrough as a training run and just do motion commands slower and more casual which made a massive difference, from your set up I can't think of any problems you should have.
theideal on 13 Dec '11 said:
Like I said, I've tried it all.
I'm also using a WM+ adapter. I didn't buy SS on launch day and there were no gold packs left when I picked it up. And I already had the adapter and it isn't broken.
moogiesboy on 13 Dec '11 said:
I try to like motion control but give me a pad anyday.
sakaspuds on 13 Dec '11 said:
silly nintendo you could map it to an analog or use swipes on the tablet or use tilting, i'd like to play zelda with dual analogs like you would any similar game, thrashing the wand adds nothing to the game for me, and its the reason why the last 2 zelda games are the only zelda games i have not completed
djreplay on 13 Dec '11 said:
Leave in classic pad control's for people that don't want to wave the controller about, problem solved.
havoc33 on 13 Dec '11 said:
I have to agree with theideal on this one.. I'm a diehard Zelda fan myself, and although I think the motion controls work great, there are times I wish I could just lay down on the couch and slouch without having to worry about pointing in the right direction etc. Fact is, there has been instances where I really felt like play SS, but didn't feel like using motion controls, so I ended up playing a different game altogether. I know more people than me feel this way, and that should be enough for Nintendo to pay attention and not alienate fans of the series. Although motion controls can be fun, it will never beat the old pad controls for extended gaming sessions.
kirankara on 13 Dec '11 said:
Motion controls added nothing to Zelda experience IMO, and.just became irritating tbh after few hrs.. The while motion control thing, sounds great in theory, but in reality, just was not all its cracked up to be.
As long as they make controls optional, then fine.
NEO_SUPERMAN on 13 Dec '11 said:
Oi!
Can you lot keep it down a little? Me and the fanboys in topic next door can hardly hear ourselves argue about PS3 v X360!
Besides, I think we can all agree that THE ABSOLUTE BEST CONTROL METHOD, ever designed by man, EVER....is the atari jaguar controller.
/topic
ricflair on 13 Dec '11 said:
I did 60 hours of Zelda in 3 weeks, and never once tired of the controls. I just don't see how you could do all the different slash directions with buttons, while running and the like, and do it well and intuitively. I agree the bowling of bombs was a bit cack, sometimes it was a bit tricky to differentiate diagonal from horizontal strikes and I would have preferred the IR pointer for aiming, but I'd be perfectly happy for them never to go back to buttons.
I played with my hands in my lap, like I always do, using pretty small wrist movement for my sword strikes and while there was the odd frustrating moment, it was more than made up for by the immersion and the fun I got from the controls. You don't have to point at the screen, in fact I rarely pointed at the screen and guided the reticule with the WMP in the same way I would do a mouse.
I get that some people just don't like motion controls as much, but when used well I think they can be much better than a pad for various reasons (and for many games pads are better) and SS is the best use of motion controls I've seen by a fair distance.
When I've read some of the comments on the internet about SS, I really wonder if a lot of the people have actually played the game properly, if at all. Not really in this thread, but generally. It definitely takes some getting used to and will take hours of gameplay for the (as I see them) benefits to show themselves.
ste hicky on 13 Dec '11 said:
to each his own people, already said that if it doesn't impact my play experience then i'm cool with an option. personally, i'm more than happy after 100 hours and i'm too tired of the subject now but can people stop mentioning pointing at the screen: that really doesn't happen in the game.
neither does thrashing the remote.
one thing i find a tad ironic is that quite a few people here who are against it have already put their cards on the table and stated that they won't be touching wii u no matter what games/exclusives nintendo pull out of the hat, so really this topic doesn't apply to them.
as for inaccuracy well... this is a really cool vid, be sure to check it all out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qOQ7LXfYjg
shadowsblaze on 13 Dec '11 said:
Personally I don't mind the sword control on the remote, though I can imagine the right analogue stick on the classic remote could be used to duplicate the sword movements. The biggest problem I've had is the reliability of the nunchuck when trying to execute shield bashes, sword spins or leaping from underwater. During the first half hour of gameplay, it seems to work fine, a slight flick and I'm able to repel enemy attacks, leap out of the water or perform spin attacks. However after a few times it requires greater movement until it becomes almost completely unresponsive. It should be noted I've tried several nunchuck attachments in case there was a fault in one - they all respond he same. One of the great things about OoT was that the controls were completely responsive - if you died it was always down to mis-timing. Whenever, I have died in Skyward Sword it has always been down to the blasted nunchuck not responding at the worst possible moment. It's not as if the enemies are difficult, but at times it feels I've spent more time battling the controls rather than the enemies. Personally, if future Zelda games prove this problematic, I won't be buying another one and this is from someone who owns every single Zelda game that has been released (apart from those god awful one's that was developed for the CD-i, or one of those consoles that failed years ago).
sonic_uk on 13 Dec '11 said:
Having played both the Wii version of Twilight Princess and having previously owned the Gamecube version I can say I didn't get on at all with the Wii version and that was due 100% to the controls being very unresponsive in combat. By the time the system had worked out I was trying to swing the sword to attack enemies I'd already lost three or four life hearts, whea's on the Gamecube I simply pressed a button. Having recently got a backwards compatible Wii last week I am on the lookout for Twilight Princess again...on Gamecube. I only hope Skyward Swords controls are a lot better as I love Zelda and really want to play that game having never played it before, but the thought of having another motion controlled nightmare like Twilight Princess is really putting me off.
The simple question I would pose to this man is this - why not have a control option to use either motion controls or a Gamecube/classic controller?
Reegeee on 14 Dec '11 said:
I haven't played on the wii in ages, but even after all this time are people still sitting there pointing at the screen with their arms outstretched? I found after about 2 hours that god created arm rests for the wii. As long as you keep your arm on the arm rest and just move it in your hand then it works a lot better.
ricflair on 14 Dec '11 said:
God invented my thighs/knees purely for this purpose!
I agree that TP suffered to some degree as the motion stuff was shoe horned in, but SS was built around the WMP. I guess yeah, maybe they could put 'normal' controls in, if only to try and answer the question of whether it's playable with button controls!
Reegeee on 14 Dec '11 said:
You know what annoys me about the wii? The fact that it is technologically redundant already. I can't use my Wii anymore because I have a pretty new TV and so it doesn't have scart sockets, just a s**t load of HDMIs. I would've bought SS ages if it wasn't for the fact I have to get new cables to play the damn thing.
sonic_uk on 14 Dec '11 said:
So is Skyward Sword really much better in the motion controls department than Twilight Princess (which I found unplayable on the Wii)? I really want to get it, but I'm worried I really wont get on with the control system. Is it something you get used to over time?
Ok, so why don't you use the composite or component sockets?
Balladeer on 14 Dec '11 said:
Then how would you map SS? (I'll ask you as Fenix apparently has me on ignore or can't bare to admit that he's never played the game.) With exactly the same (or more) flexibility? I can't comment on your other points, as I never had a problem with any of them save the reticule resetting (which is just as easy as a mouse to sort out; small movements sort out the "wind-up problem" and I've thrown all my bombs from my armchair), but I cannot see a way to map the swordplay to the CC. Second analogue stick for swordplay is a possibility, as I've mentioned elsewhere, but then the thrusts? The spins? And a mixture of analogue stick and buttons to give directions would causing unwanted strafing. Unless you can display otherwise, I'm going to stick with my claim that you cannot mix the two without pulling a TP. Speaking of which...
Yes yes yes yes yes yes YES. Hoo yes. As for the control system, see Ideal's post. Then see everyone else's posts (written by people who have actually played the game). You might not get it, but you'd be in the minority. Most people have no problem.
theideal on 14 Dec '11 said:
You answered it yourself. The second analogue stick would do the job fine. Skate style controls are the first thing that springs to mind - starting point to end point (down to up for vertical, up-left to down-right for diagonal, and all points in between, quick tap up for thrust, 360 for spin, etc). That's all just off the top of my head and I'm not even a game designer, I'm sure what amounts to a team of some of the most creative people in the industry, with years of experience, could come up with something even more creative and serviceable given more than ten seconds of thought.
Like I said, I understand a lot of people love the motion controls and I can understand them being enthusiastic about them but, in this particular case, there's no reason that there couldn't have been a classic option for the people who wanted it.
This thread has taken up far more time than I expected
Also well done on trying to dismiss my point by implying that I haven't even played it. Just noticed that
Balladeer on 14 Dec '11 said:
Implied that Fenix hadn't played the game. One of the "other people". Not you. I don't make snide remarks like that. I'm an Internet gentleman.
And that might work, although I maintain it wouldn't be as intuitive or as good for most people. I'm not going to try and nitpick. There is one thing - Skyward Sword was missing camera controls, and the camera was a pain in the backside. The one improvement I personally would make to the controls would be some sort of manual camera manipulation, which would ideally require a stick or nub on the next-gen. remote. And while your control scheme would allow for SS to be copied, it couldn't allow for a camera on top of that!
But as long as Nintendo, or you, or anyone, has an idea for non-motion controls, then I'll agree - nothing wrong with putting them in the game. Just as long as it doesn't interfere with the motion control or the motion control focus, I'm not fussed.
Reegeee on 14 Dec '11 said:
My TV has this stupid thing where it wants an adapter instead of having the component sockets on the back. Stupid new technology. Not to worry though, after a long search I found the blasted thing and all is once again right with the world.
theideal on 14 Dec '11 said:
Then I misread your closing comment. Apologies.
I'm actually pretty interested to see where they go on the inevitable Wii U game. Are they going to refine the motion stuff or are they going to go in the direction that the top brass, and likely their own creative curiosity wants them to go and use the new controller?
Maybe they have some ideas to comfortably integrate both. Should be interesting anyway.
TheCrimsonFenix on 15 Dec '11 said:
I just can't take you seriously Balladeer, I really can't. Two people stating basically the same opinion of it working more or less on a traditional controller, yet you dismiss one as not knowing what he's talking about all due to assuming they haven't played it, which has already been said further up this entire thread. If I said yes to another question of having played it, you wouldn't accept it and dismiss me as a liar/being in the unimportant minority not to be taken seriously. If I gave evidence of having played it, you would claim it was done from looking at walkthroughs. If I say no, that suddenly means I have no right to say anything. Again, I've basically already said one thing and you've instantly just passed it off as utter crap despite wholeheartedly agreeing with the statement when it's typed up by another user. It matters not about that any more simply due to the fact theideal has already planted the point in your head that I was saying all along. Of course, having your thumb do the actions wouldn't be quite the same as having full wrist and hand control but it would still work, the same way thumbsticks can give you the same results as a mouse but not quite as accurately.
Thanks ideal, pretty much agree with everything you have said. Thanks for having the time to do it. Everything which can be said has basically been said.
Balladeer on 17 Dec '11 said:
No, if you said you had played it I'd actually take you seriously. I'd argue, but I'd take you seriously. Like I did with Ideal. But since you didn't, you're right - it doesn't give you a right to say anything about the controls. Graphics, music, ambience, environments yes. Not controls or gameplay.
TheCrimsonFenix on 17 Dec '11 said:
Something tells me that one confirmation you asked for is just not good enough to come to a solid opinion regarding the controls, despite having got to Eldin Volcano which has taken a good 13 hours so far. I'm not in the habit of talking on subjects I have little idea or experience of.
Not my most favourite of Zelda games, that goes to Ocarina (cliche I know) followed by Wind Waker for how much charm that had. It's the Zelda that Nintendo should have released instead of TP imo.
Balladeer on 17 Dec '11 said:
I thought your last post said you hadn't played the game!
My mistake. In that case, obviously I withdraw everything I've said regarding your comments up until now, and offer an apology. And yes, 13 hours is a perfectly fine length of time to form an opinion about the controls. Five minutes at a friend's house wouldn't be.
Obviously I still don't agree with you, but fair's fair. If you think CC controls would still be better after 13h then that's perfectly justified. My above point about the camera still stands, though. As for replacing TP - no Midna.
Darkwun on 20 Dec '11 said:
*sniff* I do love a happy ending!
Which reminds me... nah, that one's too easy