Posted on 26-Jan-2012

If Xbox 720 cans pre-owned, we all lose

Opinion: Don't declare war on the used game market, says James Jenkins

Amid the news, rumours and wild speculation recently over the next generation of consoles, one story in particular has given me cause for concern; I'll give you a guess, it doesn't involve graphics cards.

The report yesterday linking the new Xbox console with Blu-Ray support also came with worrying claims of Xbox 720 (or whatever you want to call it) featuring a system that blocks the ability to play used games. In theory, the next-gen system could link all of your games to your specific Xbox Live account.

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Ok, now this is purely rumour at this point - a Microsoft spokesperson, of course, dismissed it as "rumour and speculation" - but if the house of Xbox is genuinely thinking about pursuing this, I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say this is a monumental mistake.

It's huge, it's brash, and it's potentially crippling to the industry and the gamers that fuel it.

It's not such a way out idea to predict a console to introduce a concept like this either, if you've read the signs. PC games have had launch codes, so to speak, for years, which doesn't restrict you to one install, but doesn't let you go wild handing out the code to everyone leaving a GAME either.

More recently publishers, dollar signs glinting in their eyes, have incorporated online pass requirements for certain games. Yearly releases like FIFA now force you to buy new, unless you want to fork out even more just to access the rich online features.

Judging from how FIFA 12 has hogged the top spot and gained so much money, akin to a digital Man City, the formula's worked hasn't it? It's certainly forced me and a number of friends from an old pattern of buying last years copy for a fiver.

Unfortunately this will only encourage big publishers and now console makers to push their luck even further.

Obviously the first casualties, if Microsoft chooses to declare war on used games, will be the little guy, the consumer.

At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new in this economy, especially with the fantastic haul of titles in 2011. The popularity of Amazon and Play.com give just a subtle hint that many gamers can't afford RRP's.

But it goes higher than the guy with the low pay packet. Certain businesses will be left crippled by this, and not just the obvious ones like CEX, a store that centres its whole strategy around pre-owned media.

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What would happen to Lovefilm or Blockbuster? Both popular options for gamers who now have the ability to sample a number of games for a limited fee, especially good for those single player experiences that offer little replay value.

But what would Lovefilm do, get a brand new copy sent out every time someone sticks that title in their wanted list? They'd run out of revenue after a week.

Beyond the consumers and businesses though, the ones I really feel will suffer are the game developers themselves.

Without the pre-owned market games like Alan Wake, Dead Space and Heavy Rain might never have been properly appreciated, with the first two eventually benefiting from the word of mouth via sequels and the latter claiming to have been played by millions via pre-owned. At £40 a pop, a game is no longer an impulse buy. We can't afford to take a scatter-gun approach and hope that we bring home something we like - and the new IPs with fresh ideas like Enslaved, Bulletstorm and Mirror's Edge get the sharp end of the stick.

If gamers are forced to pay full whack for every game they'll inevitably have to limit their purchases and stick to what they know. Which ultimately means creativity will suffer for publishers' attempts to get back some of that 'lost money'.

At the risk of sounding very familiar to Microsoft: don't do it!

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Comments

52 comments so far...

  1. fat_tony2001 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    If true, it's possible that they'll implement something like the "Online Pass" functionality that's so prevalent these days, except for all content. That would allow users to buy the actual game second hand still, but would require purchase of a new unlock code to access the content.

    It's sad that this is the way things are going, and a lot of retailers would really struggle if this were to happen. Personally I like to be able to sell games on via ebay when I'm done with them, so I'd be rather disappointed if this turns out to be true.

  2. gmcb007 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Oh for fuc...

  3. Barry316 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Pretty much what the comments in yesterday's story about it were saying, they'd be cutting their nose off to spite their face.

    It'll never happen, like fat_tony says, it'll be more likely games will have a pass. We've got games already that lock single player content so expect that in almost everything.

  4. beemoh on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Sorry James, this is only an argument if, should the used market disappear, nothing else at all will change.

    Here's the thing: that's not going to happen, so all your points are moot:

    >At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new in this economy, especially with the fantastic haul of titles in 2011.

    The sole reason (new, AAA) games are £40 is because of the used market. The used market goes away, prices drop like a stone. Here's why:

    #1: it's in retailers' best interest to keep new prices artificially high to increase margins on used titles. If there was no used market, retailers would have to lower new prices to compete. Case in point, HMV used to have good prices on games. Then, they got into the used market.

    #2: There's an argument that the reason certain people are happy to part with £40 for a game is because they can come back later and get £20 of that back. This is a reasonable argument, but proves my point exactly. The used market goes away, prices have to drop if they want sales.

    >What would happen to Lovefilm or Blockbuster?

    They'd evolve with the market. The bottom fell out of the physical DVD market, so they moved to online streaming. They will do the same with games.

    Metaboli and Green Man Gaming offer digital rental services for PC games. OnLive's PlayPack is NetFlix, but for games. Gaikai is effectively a white-label version of OnLive. It wouldn't be hard for either of those companies to get into that business.

    If those companies don't evolve, they'll die. And it won't be a loss for anyone.

    >Without the pre-owned market games like Alan Wake, Dead Space and Heavy Rain might never have been properly appreciated ... At £40 a pop, a game is no longer an impulse buy.

    The used market at the moment is the "games-late-but-cheap" market. Even if new AAA games stayed at £40 following the death of the used market, a new market for budget re-releases and additional, lower-priced games would be able to emerge.

    Take the PC market. It basically has no used market, and yet:
    *AAA PC games are usually £5-10 less than their console equivalent
    *Double- and Single-A games can be bought new at retail, which is not the case for console, usually at a lower price
    *Sticking with retail, older titles can be picked up on budget labels, often in 3-for-£20 deals, which again is not the case for console

    Your Alans, Deads and Heavies would be able to come to market at a lower price and still be taken seriously, as opposed to now where the only option is to send it out to die at £40.

    The "the guy with the low pay packet" has nothing to worry about- he will still be well-served by a used-less future. If anything, he'll be better served than he is today.

  5. TheLastDodo on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I don't think I've ever re-bought a game with an Online Pass, what happens (currently) if say I redeem my BF3 Online Pass, trade BF3 in then buy it pre owned 4 months later?

    Would I need to buy an Online Pass for my pre owned copy or would I be able to re-use the code from my new copy on the pre-owned copy?


    EDIT: Good post beemoh.

  6. FixBeatGames on 26 Jan '12 said:

    i 100% agree with the article, there's one thing that i don't fully understand though.

    "At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new"

    let's be fair, games nowadays compared to games in the master-system/nes or even the mega-drive/snes days are FAR superior in most ways. certainly in the price it costs devs to put them together. and games back then were £40+, the bigger ones (with expansions on the cartridges) were even more.

    considering everything else in the world, from the price of bread to the price of a tv has gone up by about a million% in these 15odd years, it's pretty damn good that new games still cost what they did back then. whether this is a reflection that games back then were simply way overpriced or what, i'm not sure.

    but £40 for a game isn't that bad (when the game is good, of course).

    forget about pricing though, being able to trade your games in should simply be everyone's right. plain and simple.

  7. beemoh on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Would I need to buy an Online Pass for my pre owned copy or would I be able to re-use the code from my new copy on the pre-owned copy?


    EDIT: Good post beemoh.

    I thank you. :D

    To answer your question, BTW, you might have to re-download the actual data, but you wouldn't need to buy a new online pass, certainly not as I understand it.

  8. TOKEN on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Prices will have to come down if people buy pre owned and also pay for online play with cash.Retail will suffer as well as the customer,i wont buy BF3 at £36/7 then 7 to 8 for the right to play online.

  9. placid ca5ual on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Suprised no-ones mentioned this. I love to colect retro games. In the future there will be a time when xbox 720 software isn't available in the shops anymore and you will never be able to buy it...

  10. G00N3R on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I've got two words that destroy this entire article.

    Digital Distribution.

    Yes, these two words primarily relate to PC market right now. But the users of services such as Steam - both customers and developers, are doing just fine without the ability to have a pre-owned market.

    This will not be the doomsday scenario that the article makes it out to be. At the very worst, people who can't afford to pay £40 for a brand new game, will have to wait 2-3 months for it to come down in price. And it might not even be that long. Video games prices fall ridiculously quickly.

  11. TheLastDodo on 26 Jan '12 said:

    "At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new"

    Thats true, I can't afford to buy everything new so you know what I do? I wait.

    You really don't need to buy pre-owned these days (unless it's for something rare), just wait a few weeks and you'll be surprised at how fast prices can drop, especially online, Resistance 3 was reduced to £20 NEW before Xmas, Deus Ex was £9.99 NEW within three months, just be patient and shop smarter.

    Honestly, instead of paying 35 quid for a used copy of Battlefield 3 in Gamestation, get online, create an account with amazon or shopto and buy a new copy for 25 quid.

  12. MagicBoughie24 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I don't think I've ever re-bought a game with an Online Pass, what happens (currently) if say I redeem my BF3 Online Pass, trade BF3 in then buy it pre owned 4 months later?

    Would I need to buy an Online Pass for my pre owned copy or would I be able to re-use the code from my new copy on the pre-owned copy?
    .

    I done that with Bad Company 2, I didnt need to pay all I had to do was download it again.

  13. Fr33Kye on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Yes mirror's edge will get the sharp end of the stick as opposed to the successful franchise it turned into now....... -_-

  14. a3HeadedMonkey on 26 Jan '12 said:

    BE AFRAID!!! YOUR WORLD IS ABOUT TO CRASH DOWN AROUND YOU!!

    This message is brought to you by The News of The CVG corporation

    In other news: Kid who isn't connected to the internet, goes out & buys 2nd hand Xbox 720 game. Not a single f**k was given.

  15. TheLastDodo on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Yes mirror's edge will get the sharp end of the stick as opposed to the successful franchise it turned into now....... -_-

    Do not speak ill of Mirrors Edge :evil:.

  16. disgustingtramp on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I can't believe some people are almost trying to justify this as being an ok thing to do. The pre owned market has always been there, do you realise how hard this will hit so many of the game stores? Do you realise how big that market is? Why price people out of playing games?

    The thing is, games are making millions and millions. While certain developers are pushing the same s**t out year after year and wondering why their buying public are becoming more and more disinterested in their game (cough COD) they are looking for ANY way possible to make even more money. This is exactly what this is, a way to make even more money and its really f**king sad. No one should be priced out of gaming...gaming is for everyone. Whether you are a schoolkid with a fiver pocket money a week, a benefit hound, a hard working millionaire, whatever you are it should be accessible to you. Whether you buy all new games all the time or not, makes no difference, so the people that do buy new all the time, please, get off your high horse, remember that you are not the only ones who like to play games. I buy all my games new, on release date, but I should have the right to sell one of those bought games to a kid who gets a fiver a week, so he can play it...Isn't that what its all about??

    Gaming, especially since the boom of online gaming, has become so centred around making money, it never used to be like this did it?, this constant focus on sales figures, charts, paid for download content etc I'm getting frankly sick of it. Its taking the passion out of what technically, is a form of art.

  17. DAEDALUS79 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    It isnt going to happen, anyone thinking it will doesnt have a clue. Think of all the groups that would lose out, not just consumers but companies. Shops like HMV, Game, Gamestop etc that thrive on used game sales, sites like blockbuster, lovefilm, netflix and the like that use games for rentals. Microsoft would face an unholy backlash from these corporate giants if they tried this, with the companies either negatively promoting the microsoft console or just pulling it from shelves all together like weve seen in the past with smaller firms. Add to the equation, what do microsoft have to gain? Yes they publish some games but not many, certainly not enough to make such a backlash worthwhile, and it cannot be argued that publishers will pressure MS because neither sony or nintendo offer such a feature.

    Wont happen, mark my words, and if it does but a playstation!

  18. Mmmmgrolsch on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Without the pre-owned market, the whole industry would suffer. I know for 1 fact, I'd buy half the games I'm buying now due to fear of buying a game I didn't like and being stuck with it. People who buy broken unfinished s**tty games like Syrim deserve to make some of the loss back by selling their copy.


    Anyway. No Pre-owned = nowhere to stock the console. So good luck with that.

  19. flyfletch on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Sorry James, this is only an argument if, should the used market disappear, nothing else at all will change.

    Here's the thing: that's not going to happen, so all your points are moot:

    >At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new in this economy, especially with the fantastic haul of titles in 2011.

    The sole reason (new, AAA) games are £40 is because of the used market. The used market goes away, prices drop like a stone. Here's why:

    #1: it's in retailers' best interest to keep new prices artificially high to increase margins on used titles. If there was no used market, retailers would have to lower new prices to compete. Case in point, HMV used to have good prices on games. Then, they got into the used market.

    #2: There's an argument that the reason certain people are happy to part with £40 for a game is because they can come back later and get £20 of that back. This is a reasonable argument, but proves my point exactly. The used market goes away, prices have to drop if they want sales.

    >What would happen to Lovefilm or Blockbuster?

    They'd evolve with the market. The bottom fell out of the physical DVD market, so they moved to online streaming. They will do the same with games.

    Metaboli and Green Man Gaming offer digital rental services for PC games. OnLive's PlayPack is NetFlix, but for games. Gaikai is effectively a white-label version of OnLive. It wouldn't be hard for either of those companies to get into that business.

    If those companies don't evolve, they'll die. And it won't be a loss for anyone.

    >Without the pre-owned market games like Alan Wake, Dead Space and Heavy Rain might never have been properly appreciated ... At £40 a pop, a game is no longer an impulse buy.

    The used market at the moment is the "games-late-but-cheap" market. Even if new AAA games stayed at £40 following the death of the used market, a new market for budget re-releases and additional, lower-priced games would be able to emerge.

    Take the PC market. It basically has no used market, and yet:
    *AAA PC games are usually £5-10 less than their console equivalent
    *Double- and Single-A games can be bought new at retail, which is not the case for console, usually at a lower price
    *Sticking with retail, older titles can be picked up on budget labels, often in 3-for-£20 deals, which again is not the case for console

    Your Alans, Deads and Heavies would be able to come to market at a lower price and still be taken seriously, as opposed to now where the only option is to send it out to die at £40.

    The "the guy with the low pay packet" has nothing to worry about- he will still be well-served by a used-less future. If anything, he'll be better served than he is today.

    Perfect!! Couldnt have said it better myself, im not one bit worried about this happening! The market will adapt to it, they have no choice, i will add that i dont think MS will do it, but in the slim chance it does, it will be no problem. And as for saying retailers will not stock the machine, i would love to see the retailer brave enough and cash rich enough not to stock a new Xbox, this isnt a new Atari machine we are talking about, almost guaranteed to fail, its a machine that will in all likely hood fly off shelves. And if they did for some crazy reason not stock it, you can be sure MS would find a way to sell it! :)

  20. disgustingtramp on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Perfect!! Couldnt have said it better myself, im not one bit worried about this happening! The market will adapt to it, they have no choice, i will add that i dont think MS will do it, but in the slim chance it does, it will be no problem. And as for saying retailers will not stock the machine, i would love to see the retailer brave enough and cash rich enough not to stock a new Xbox, this isnt a new Atari machine we are talking about, almost guaranteed to fail, its a machine that will in all likely hood fly off shelves. And if they did for some crazy reason not stock it, you can be sure MS would find a way to sell it! :)

    The problem with his post is, piracy is massive on the PC. That is why there is no real pre owned market and why it can't be compared to the console market. Another reason why this would be a terrible idea. The market will adapt, so too will people and the people who can't afford to buy new all the time, will have to look to other options, how can that be good for the industry?

  21. Mmmmgrolsch on 26 Jan '12 said:


    Take the PC market. It basically has no used market, and yet:
    *AAA PC games are usually £5-10 less than their console equivalent

    Sorry but the only reason the prices are £5-£10 cheaper is because it's a open platform and they don't have to pay anyone per copy sold to release their game on the platform. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the used market.

  22. TheLastDodo on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Perfect!! Couldnt have said it better myself, im not one bit worried about this happening! The market will adapt to it, they have no choice, i will add that i dont think MS will do it, but in the slim chance it does, it will be no problem. And as for saying retailers will not stock the machine, i would love to see the retailer brave enough and cash rich enough not to stock a new Xbox, this isnt a new Atari machine we are talking about, almost guaranteed to fail, its a machine that will in all likely hood fly off shelves. And if they did for some crazy reason not stock it, you can be sure MS would find a way to sell it! :)

    The problem with his post is, piracy is massive on the PC. That is why there is no real pre owned market and why it can't be compared to the console market. Another reason why this would be a terrible idea. The market will adapt, so too will people and the people who can't afford to buy new all the time, will have to look to other options, how can that be good for the industry?

    Without a pre-owned market publishers would have no choice but to lower new games prices if they want their games to sell, most would have to anyway, I'm sure the big name franchises could get away with it but for games like El Shaddai, De Blob, Shadows of the Damned, publishers would have to be crazy to price those games at the same as a Halo, FIFA or CoD.

    The pre-owned market is pointless now anyway in regards to buying, you can go into Game/Gamestation/HMV these days and regularly find pre-owned games more expensive than new titles, go online and you'll find new copies cheaper than pre-owned/new copies at retail so again (besides rare/unpopular games which can be still be found cheaper on ebay) what's the point in popping into town and buying pre-owned anymore?

    If some people weren't so damned impatient and were a little smarter in how they shopped they'd realise they could buy new games cheaper than pre-owned these days.

  23. KK-Headcharge78 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    There is only one conceivable way this will happen and that is if Sony and Ninty agree to do the same, now if that happended I would not be surprised, but if one does it alone I'll eat a skip of batsh*t.

  24. disgustingtramp on 26 Jan '12 said:

    The pre-owned market is pointless now anyway in regards to buying, you can go into Game/Gamestation/HMV these days and regularly find pre-owned games more expensive than new titles, go online and you'll find new copies cheaper than pre-owned/new copies at retail so again (besides rare/unpopular games which can be still be found cheaper on ebay) what's the point in popping into town and buying pre-owned anymore?

    Pointless to some maybe, but it's a big market. That can't be denied right? I mean everyone has a pre owned section, they buy used and sell used and make money from it. It works and its been proven. You might be right on new titles, but you forgot to point out that people also buy old titles. Which you won't find cheaper new or even find new in the first place. I mean £5 for super street fighter 4? Come on..thats a great deal isn't it?

  25. beemoh on 26 Jan '12 said:


    Take the PC market. It basically has no used market, and yet:
    *AAA PC games are usually £5-10 less than their console equivalent

    Sorry but the only reason the prices are £5-£10 cheaper is because it's a open platform and they don't have to pay anyone per copy sold to release their game on the platform. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the used market.

    Licencing fees like that are an irrelevancy in the grand scheme of things- the expensive part of gaming, and therefore the important thing when it comes to price-per-copy, is the development- programming in particular.

    The cost of programming a PC version of a game can be spread across more sales over a longer period of time by comparison to a console version- for the console version to make its money, then the developer has to take £20 per copy in the first week before the used market takes over. For the PC version, they can afford to take £10-15 in the first few weeks, knowing that they'll be picking up an extra £5 here and there when it's being sold on budget- if there was no budget label then PC games would have price parity with their console equivalent as they would need the difference in order to break even.

    The main point is that PC games have a 'long tail' which, owing to the used market, console games do not, and this has an upwards effect on games prices.

  26. beemoh on 26 Jan '12 said:

    The problem with his post is, piracy is massive on the PC. That is why there is no real pre owned market and why it can't be compared to the console market.

    Pirates aren't the same market as used buyers- pirates don't want to pay for it and WANTITNOW, used buyers are happy to pay, just not that much and not right now.

    While the first market are probably a lost cause, the second market can be- and are- served by budget on PC.

    The market will adapt, so too will people and the people who can't afford to buy new all the time, will have to look to other options, how can that be good for the industry?

    If the other options are those digital rental services I mentioned, then it'd be good because it would be paying into the industry.

  27. Mmmmgrolsch on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I just hope pre-owned never goes away. For the sake of everyone and the industry.

  28. nolim on 26 Jan '12 said:

    I was with him until he said "especially good for those single player experiences that offer little replay value", which is exactly why the next Alan Wake game is download only.

  29. Fr33Kye on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Yes mirror's edge will get the sharp end of the stick as opposed to the successful franchise it turned into now....... -_-

    Do not speak ill of Mirrors Edge :evil:.


    Dude i would never, the game's a masterpiece. I'm annoyed at the idea of using mirror's edge as an example of why the Used market is important. Mirror's edge did not sell incredibly well, and wasn't given the same chance as deadspace. It annoys me when people imply that the Used market is good because then people buy the sequel. WHAT IF A GAME DOESN'T GET A CHANCE FOR A SEQUEL? WHAT IF A GAME DOESN'T NEED A SEQUEL?

  30. oOo ZOMBIE oOo on 26 Jan '12 said:

    What if like me son and I have seperate xboxes but share games ...do I buy 2 copies now....??? also I have 2 xboxes one upstairs of my own and one downstairs of my own a by product of upgrading to a slim...do I have to buy that console copys of the game too...also like another post I collect retro consoles and game this makes the "720" a dead duck....if this comes to pass it will suck epically!

  31. Mastermue on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Its all speculation at this point. No point in losing our sh*t over rumours.

  32. Dragon Furry on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Also. If this possible future was the case. One could still get the single player games pre-owned. One just play off-line. Having a consol that is needed 100% online to play games cut of a large marked for countries that have very poor internet or close to none. Many places in the US still have terrible internet so there is no sence in locking games like that.
    Plus how would you do it. If the machine is not online how can it tell if the game is used? Is not like it can save data on the disk :p

  33. kmcroc on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Everyone is mad at a so called rumor that states it is a concept MS is looking into , but here's the thing will other platforms follow suit ,if every publisher & delveloper backs it . that's what i want to know, yeah it sucks for those straped for cash or those just looking to make a buck off thier games & it will must definately cut into gamestop billion dollar profits. Again if thiers a unified front from delvelopers ,publisher & this one hardware maker will all others follow suit. ( just a thought)

  34. xxx128 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Do not buy it. Simple as that. And once they get the message perhaps they get in touch with reality again :D

  35. Phaedros on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Great article. Can I expect to make money off of something I sold to someone when they sell that same thing to someone else? Of course not, once I've sold it, it's no longer mine and I have no rights on it.

  36. vitorfernandes83 on 26 Jan '12 said:

    Microsoft cant be that stupid, it would just shift half of the 360 fans to the ps4. If it is true, and sony doesnt do it, thats a win for sony next gen. If both sony and Microsoft go for this, my only solution will be piracy. I can afford plenty of games at 40pounds, but gaming is so bad nowadays that I will not pay those prices, hell, even Uncharted 3 is not worth that much, I finished it in 3 days and it doesnt have much replayability. I would pay that money only for a new super mario galaxy with better graphics, maybe skyrim is worth it as well. My most expensive game this generation was 19 pounds.

    There's another problem as well, what if I dont like a game and want to trade/sell? Nobody would buy it and I'd be stuck with something I dont like. I can allways sell my car, clothes, phones and everything else.
    So, my friends, I recommend piracy.

  37. 360_Fan on 27 Jan '12 said:

    If at E3 M$ turns around and says that this is the case, then I will be the first to get up in arms and protest. Until then, I will take everything I hear from anyone who is not M$ with a very large grain of salt. At the moment it seems anyone with a website can say what they want and it is taken as gospel. The more unlikely it seems, the more hits they get.

  38. Old Skool Gamer on 27 Jan '12 said:

    I think for online gaming it will be reinforced with hardware but I think this is also for piracy as well as the 360 took time to be opened up with JTAG's etc but now it is easy to mod using a USB stick and flashed DVD drive, same with the PS3 as we all know what happened on that platform :wink: :wink:

    If games were not s**t like 99.9% of titles are nowadays then pre owned would be like it was years ago, only a small minority.

  39. EvilWaterman on 27 Jan '12 said:

    I've got two words that destroy this entire article.

    Digital Distribution.

    Yes, these two words primarily relate to PC market right now. But the users of services such as Steam - both customers and developers, are doing just fine without the ability to have a pre-owned market.

    This will not be the doomsday scenario that the article makes it out to be. At the very worst, people who can't afford to pay £40 for a brand new game, will have to wait 2-3 months for it to come down in price. And it might not even be that long. Video games prices fall ridiculously quickly.

    Not quite sure your argument stacks up as I bet that the developers also have other IP's that are on console as well that will be part of the used market just like the consumer will likely have a console as well as a PC.

  40. Asinine on 27 Jan '12 said:

    That's a massive piece of one-sided conjecture.

    If MS do this we all lose?

    If they do this and prices rise then they will essentially be safely regarded as complete lying cun7s, but, what they have been saying for some time is that due to piracy (and the second hand market), prices on games are high as a revenue recoup of lost earnings. Some games are made at a loss and some are made at a profit, one pays for the other in general.

    However, if, as they suggest, piracy and the second hand market losses are regained, prices can drop, games shops and gamers can breathe a sigh of relief and buy to their little hearts are content nice cheap titles.

    However, this is all a stop-gap as far as MS are concerned, they want everything to be digital only anyway. As soon as they get their way, the game shops will be closed permanently.

  41. billysastard on 27 Jan '12 said:

    I've got two words that destroy this entire article.

    Digital Distribution.

    Yes, these two words primarily relate to PC market right now. But the users of services such as Steam - both customers and developers, are doing just fine without the ability to have a pre-owned market.

    This will not be the doomsday scenario that the article makes it out to be. At the very worst, people who can't afford to pay £40 for a brand new game, will have to wait 2-3 months for it to come down in price. And it might not even be that long. Video games prices fall ridiculously quickly.

    we are talking about the games console market and the idea of blocking LEGAL used games sales is about as criminal as online passes and the rest of the download rip off content industry, its time all gamers took a stand and stopped buying anything that utilises any of these anti consumer tactics, it will only benefit us all in the future if we can convince this greedy scum to change their ways or put them out of business.

  42. corkscru74 on 27 Jan '12 said:


    >At £40 some people simply can't afford to buy all the triple-A releases brand new in this economy, especially with the fantastic haul of titles in 2011.

    The sole reason (new, AAA) games are £40 is because of the used market. The used market goes away, prices drop like a stone.


    Firstly, there is no sole reason that games are priced at a certain level, there are many market factors that affect this. Production costs, marketing, shipping, shoplifting are just some of them.

    Secondly, pre-owned is certainly not one of them. If you'd done a bit of research you'd see that the price of console games has always been this high. Actually this high, not 'by adjusting for inflation' but literally £50 new. The only pre-owned market back then was your local carboot sale! No ebay, no gamestation.

    So how you can make this assumption is completely beyond me.

  43. Agent75 on 27 Jan '12 said:

    No matter if you can afford to pay stupid prices for games (at launch usually), they're just not worth it. If all games roughly sell for £40 each, does that mean they all cost the same to develop, publish and advertise etc.? I'd say no. I never pay a penny over £20 for games, most of which I buy used then get rid. Also, there's a trend with these Game of the Year Editions / Complete Editions, so it's best waiting. But a big blow is this is true, but I just can't see it happening.

  44. vitorfernandes83 on 27 Jan '12 said:

    Do people really think prices would go down if there was no piracy neither second and? Companies are greedy, they always want more, as since the customers are acostumed to those prices, they would let it be. Customers would gladly pay 40pounds for a game if it was really good, but it seems they just trow us unfinished games, fifa and call of duty are examples, they could take 3 or 4 years and make real good games, instead we have smallish improvements, dlc's, updates, fixes, customers pay 40pounds and then have to pay another 20 for the rest of the game. Hence the games as they are at launch are not worth of the prices. Why on hell would I pay every year 40 pounds for fifa? Its just the same game, hasn't really change since 2008, at the end of 3 years you are paying 120 pounds for 1 game updated yearly, that was more expensive than my Wii console. Solution? second hand or piracy. As I mentioned before there are some games out there worth 40 pounds , Super mario galaxy 2 and sky rim being prime examples.

  45. Joe90_Remy700 on 27 Jan '12 said:


    we are talking about the games console market and the idea of blocking LEGAL used games sales is about as criminal as online passes and the rest of the download rip off content industry, its time all gamers took a stand and stopped buying anything that utilises any of these anti consumer tactics, it will only benefit us all in the future if we can convince this greedy scum to change their ways or put them out of business.


    sorry, but if you want to do this, it will only ruin the games industry. haven't there been articles before about how the pre-owned market is ruining development? online passes are a good idea, its getting money to the developers to hopefully fund better development and better games. i'm not saying i welcome all charges, such as Elite and 1200m$ map packs, but some content is well worth paying for (upcoming skyrim dlc... when it gets here!)
    more money to developers should= better games
    used games are bought from customers for pittance compared to what they sell them on for. i'm not saying there is no need for charges, as retailers have overheads to pay, but buy saving 10 quid on a game, you are in fact giving double to the retailer and nothing to developers. if you want to support gaming, SUPPORT THE DEV'S you scrooge

  46. gmcb007 on 27 Jan '12 said:


    more money to developers should= better games

    That's debatable. If anything it can lead them to doing the same cocktail over and over again. I mean how many games are trying to go down the COD route now?

  47. TheLastDodo on 27 Jan '12 said:

    No matter if you can afford to pay stupid prices for games (at launch usually), they're just not worth it. If all games roughly sell for £40 each, does that mean they all cost the same to develop, publish and advertise etc.? I'd say no. I never pay a penny over £20 for games, most of which I buy used then get rid. Also, there's a trend with these Game of the Year Editions / Complete Editions, so it's best waiting. But a big blow is this is true, but I just can't see it happening.

    You do realise that if everyone thought that way and decided to wait for the GOTY Edition then there would never be a GOTY Edition yeah?

  48. BOYD1981 on 27 Jan '12 said:

    It makes no sense for Microsoft to take the decision to prevent used games being played on the system at a hardware level, they'll be looking at it from a hardware manufacturer's point of view rather than as a publisher. The second hand game market takes hardly anything from them as not all xbox games are exclusively published by Microsoft, whereas a second hand console market only increases software sales.

    I guarantee you that all a move like this will do is make some individuals buy multiple copies of a game on release, play one copy and sell the rest at an inflated price later on.

  49. Richyrich316 on 28 Jan '12 said:

    I have really enjoyed both Xbox consoles &am starting to look forward to the next gen Xbox but if they do this then I am out either that or I would be buying very few games as I only tend to buy games that i really really want brand new at full price for others I either wait till they come down in price or get a 2nd hand copy

  50. sevvybgoode on 28 Jan '12 said:

    Can't anyone remember the rumours of Sony implementing a similar system with the ps3? That didn't come to fruition either...

    I think it's far more likely that there will be a bigger emphasis on digital purchases next gen and if Sony, ms and nintendo get their acts together and offer much cheaper versions than physical versions it may even take off. Prices being the same as rrp is insane for a tonne of reasons. You lose out on the value of the item (I have over 100 xbla games on my 360 but that adds no real value to the system, I might get a few quid extra off eBay but game etc wouldn't give a monkeys). You can't say you have a collection really as it's just a bunch of ethereal 1s and 0s, this is the main reason that portals
    Ike comixologys won't replace LCS' in comic sales. I know plenty of people who use comixology to pick up digital copy's of their pulls but not to replace them as again they have no value.

    There are a few comparisons between comics and games that are false however as in general comics increase in value over time whereas the opposite is generally true of games (barring the really rare titles which may be considered retro in 15-20 years). There is no real market for second hand comics in general retail although collections are far more common online. Comics also have that general pricepoint that can lead to them being impulse buys when browsing for other titles. Due to games cost it's pretty rare vie gone into a games store and walked out with another full price purchase on a whim.

    Enough rambling about comics though but looking at peoples anger towards ms for just a rumour is crazy. If it's confirmed then bring on the bile but until then...

  51. murphy7801 on 28 Jan '12 said:

    This is one of the stupidest made articles ever with lees amount logic used in awhile. Ok from someone who works in the industry pre owned games are the bane of alot publishers and developers the reason? because the millions some times billions of dollars that go to making a title and years work then to get no financial return on that effort and investment. The money going to retailer who has no hand in making the products you love, pre owned makes it less likey that you will ever see a sequel or dlc or patches. In this tough economic pre owned is killing developers and even a few smaller publishers. Pre owned is one of the biggest threats to the industry and is hurting it bad articles like this are just plain stupid and hurtful if you claim to like the industry.

  52. richard99 on 28 Jan '12 said:

    If Microsoft (or Sony/Nintendo) tries to do something like this I won't be getting their console, simple as that.
    This kind of thing annoys me on PC, I don't want consoles doing it.