Renowned US games designer American McGee has spoken out in a forthcoming interview with CVG, to lambast Microsoft and Sony as 'focused on money' before going on to describe Nintendo's Wii as the only true next-generation console.
In an extensive and forthright interview which will be appearing exclusively on CVG tomorrow, McGee, who's currently in the throes of releasing Bad Day LA as well as working on movie projects Grimm and Oz, responded to our question about the prospects for the next generation race by saying, "The only truly next-gen console out there is the Wii. Everything else is just a video card and processor upgrade."
When quizzed further, McGee told us he thought that Nintendo would be the true next-generation champion for gamers adding, " I sense that Nintendo is going to capture the hearts of gamers while Microsoft and Sony stab each other in the neck for market domination. Nintendo is focused on innovation and games. The other guys are focused on making money."
Controversial views indeed, but McGee seems certain that Nintendo speaks to the true gamer's soul, while picturing the other two monolithic corporations as engaged in a massive bunfight not for gaming, but for cold hard cash. Harsh or right on the money? You can offer your own thoughts in our comments field, and be sure to tune back in tomorrow for the full and fascinating interview where McGee discusses US politicians' hostility to games, episodic content, outsourcing and where gaming's future truly lies.
I do agree with McGee with Microsoft and Sony competing for market domination which results in hard cash. This is somthing we all know. Lol what makes me laugh is the way he is bang on with Xbox 360 and PS3 just being technical upgrades with out much user interface being re-designed.
Wii will win alot of people over just like the DS has and I'm more interested in playing the Wii rather than admiring the graphic qualities of the PS3 and 360.
He is probably right in saying that. With the success of the DS worldwide it shows that innovation is now the key to success. Graphics are not that important now - people want something new and something fun - not just the same old boring shooting game. The Wii in my view will become number 1 in most territories espicially in Japan however the UK is still anti-nintendo and so a lot of people may still buy the PS3 due to brand loyality.
The sad thing is that with so many Sony and MS fan boys unwilling to step outside their comfort zone, unless the Wii does well, this could be Nintendos last stab at the console market.
I agree with Mcgee to a certain extent but I think microsoft deserve a little bit of credit for at least trying to offer gamers an alternative with Live arcade and the forthcoming XNA. Live arcade is about gameplay over graphics and by imposing a 50mb limit on live arcade titles it forces the publisher to look at ways of being innovative rather than flashy.
I did just type a big whole load of s**te about fanboys and stuff but i thought screw it - bottom line of my massive post, Wii+Nintendo in general are gonna wipe the floor with Both MS and Sony, the price, the games, the innovative new controller - everything about it is just going to appeal to every level of gamer, hell i'm 21 and own a 360 and a pretty sweet PC, and have owned most consoles throughout my life (actually everything except PS1, PS2 and PSP) my favourite games are usually games where i blow stuff up with a great big f**koff gun (Doom, HL1+2 etc) but i still always go back to my Gamecube for some Mario Kart lovin or to see if i can get any further on Zelda:WW (the answer is no - i cant) In summary, Wii, DS and Nintendo have definitely got a whole lot of life left in em - and i can't wait to be there with em.
What a tool, I wonder how much Nintendo paid him. Nintendo is the only company that will be making profit on the hardware units while sony and microsoft are losing money on every sold xbox360 or PS3. So if someone is 'focused on making money', it's nintendo from my point of view.
What a load of crap. At least the Xbox360 and PS3 consoles have upgraded CPU's and graphics. The Wii console is just a slightly faster Gamecube.
Is he really trying to say that next gen is solely determined by the controller. Let's face it, if Nintendo was running NASA then we wouldn't have reached the moon yet. The Wii isn't next gen it's old gen.
What a load of crap. At least the Xbox360 and PS3 consoles have upgraded CPU's and graphics. The Wii console is just a slightly faster Gamecube.
Hold up, your trying to tell everyone that better graphics and more storage space is the way forward for next generation?? i have to disagree, surely its gonna be how us users become involved with the games.
The graphics are actually slightly stronger than the xbox not gamecube. As the xbox was neva really pushed, im sure the Wii will be and the games will look good. Have a look at the sonic games for Wii and PS3, the difference is quite a bit but both look beautiful.
Im not saying Wii will dominate, but it will improve the way people look at games and get more people playing. Warioware was a great party game on the gamecube but you still had to play with controlpads. Playing with the Wii remote will be alot more fun, making you look stupid and hopefully having a good laugh with ur mates as a result.
You are both soo closed mineded, i am fed up with playing the same old games but in a different wrapper. i want Completely new, innovative games that capture my imagination not the same old cyborg shooting the same old aliens but with better graphics. Nintendo shall lead the way for year to come IMO.
Movies that rely on CG instead of plot get boring real fast. Why would I want the same thing done to gaming.
Oh and I forgot - they will also be adding advertising into the games I pay for? Bugger Off Sony & Microsoft.
Also I don't trust Sony quality. What if that expensive Blew ray drive blows - how much does the PS3 cost again? What is the Warranty period? Doesn't sound good to me.
Is he really trying to say that next gen is solely determined by the controller. Let's face it, if Nintendo was running NASA then we wouldn't have reached the moon yet. The Wii isn't next gen it's old gen.
Its not the controller SPECIFICALLY that he's talking about. Its just doing something different and revolutionary. Sony and MS have done nothing except upgrade their graphics which McGee said. Which is not "revolutionary" as its been the trend since games consoles began...
Hold up, your trying to tell everyone that better graphics and more storage space is the way forward for next generation?? i have to disagree, surely its gonna be how us users become involved with the games.
Ow come on, 'next generation' has always been about more powerful hardware and more storage so developers can make better games with new features. It's not because nintendo doesn't have the resources anymore to compete in the hardware race and decides to take a different path that more powerful hardware suddenly isn't 'next generation' anymore. That's just what nintendo wants you to believe.
i am fed up with playing the same old games but in a different wrapper. i want Completely new, innovative games that capture my imagination not the same old cyborg shooting the same old aliens but with better graphics. Nintendo shall lead the way for year to come IMO.
Too bad you'll be playing the same old shooters, nintendo franchises and fifa games on your wii but with a different controller ..... and gamecube graphics.
What a tool, I wonder how much Nintendo paid him. Nintendo is the only company that will be making profit on the hardware units while sony and microsoft are losing money on every sold xbox360 or PS3. So if someone is 'focused on making money', it's nintendo from my point of view.
no, thats called having business acumen - being prudent and actually able to budget properly
Quick new flash: A Business wants to make Money. Update at eleven.
What a dumb, dumb, possibly paid-in-full, statement. Mind you, with McGee's recent record of sales, you can be sure he isn't interested in the money.
Interesting as well that he slams the 2 companies that lose money on each sale as money-grabbing, when the main reason for Ninty to bring out the GameCube v. 1.1 was so that they made money on each console sold. Guy's friggin' lost it. Go back to Oz, ya freak.
He's right. People who disagree with him are in the minority! Definitely!
Sony and Microsoft are so boring! Lighten up! Have some fun!!!!!
More like people who buy his games are in the minority.
So you're saying that the nintendo Gamecube v. 1.1 is going to out-sell both the 360 and PS3 put together (as they would be this minority you are talking about)? Are you out of your mind, or have you been wearing those Ninty-tintied specs for so long you've forgotten that they're on the end of your nose?
If they do outsell both (and that's a very distant possibility), then it truly proves what suckers the Ninty fanboys are, as they are prepared to throw good money at a company that should, if they truly love their fans, have sold it as a peripheral for the Gamecube. But then they would not have made as much money.
What a tool, I wonder how much Nintendo paid him. Nintendo is the only company that will be making profit on the hardware units while sony and microsoft are losing money on every sold xbox360 or PS3. So if someone is 'focused on making money', it's nintendo from my point of view.
no, thats called having business acumen - being prudent and actually able to budget properly
Dude, did you read what you typed before posting it? Just that I'm confused which side of the fence you're on as you start your post with "no", I'm guessing because you don't agree, and then the rest of the post goes on to prove that Ninty is focussed on making money, them being "prudent" and being "able to budget properly".
Too bad you'll be playing the same old shooters, nintendo franchises and fifa games on your wii but with a different controller ..... and gamecube graphics.
A whole new way in playing those games again " BRING IT ON "
Instead of playing those same old games now with nothing but a face lift( nothing underneath has changed )& higher price tag, just to be traded in in a matter of days due to their lack of longevity ,originality & after the initial attention of the "next gen "eyecandy has worn off .
They could've brought something fresh to the table ,not just continued with what is really just a natural advancement in technology.
Sony are offering more than just a simple processor upgrade. They are trying to give us the power of Next- Gen technology. Free online anyone? NextGen Dvd as standard with huge storage capacity. (also a quieter runner and more effeciant than its HD-DVD counterpart which is benefitting only from dual layer at the moment and studio choice higher quality video codec. Once Sony start with Dual Layer discs expect HD-DVD to look worthless. Poor old Toshiba)
MS are doing the very same. They have had ATI develop a top notch graphics card, possibly future proof due to the shader tech. Also they are trying to offer a concrete and fun online service.
So there we have it. Sorry Nintendo, your not the only one trying. Your just backing off from spending to much on your punters.
Movies that rely on CG instead of plot get boring real fast. Why would I want the same thing done to gaming.
Oh and I forgot - they will also be adding advertising into the games I pay for? Bugger Off Sony & Microsoft.
Right, since you're using movie analogies, how many silent movies do you watch a week? How many using stop-motion special effects rather than CG?
What you're getting from Ninty is restrictions, whether they have that controller or not.
By giving a greater cpu speed with parallel tasking, and much greater graphics, Sony and MS are allowing developers the freedom to work on greater physics, greater AI, and greater gameplay. Do you think GameCube v. 1.1 will be able to house the technology that LucasArts have come up with for their upcoming games, technology which allows true freedom as you'll be able to perform actions that the developers haven't even thought of themselves?
Then freedom isn't a favourite word at Ninty, whether it's the games themselves, where you're free to do what Ninty tell you to, or the developers, who are only free to do what Ninty tell them to. Remember when they said that if it was up to them, GTA3 would never have come out? One of the most groundbreaking games to have been released in the last 10 years, and Ninty would have just stomped their foot on its throat.
And as for "advertising", it's product placement, and has been around for decades in gaming (even on Ninty products), and is only as annoying as it is obtrusive, i.e. if it doesn't interfere with the game it doesn't really matter. For example, and going back to the film analogy, if someone in a film drives a car, that car is product placement but doesn't really matter, as the guy's got to drive a car. However if for example I went to see a kid's film, I would be a bit peeved if the entire film was made to advertise one product. Like "The Wizard". Which was a 90-minute advert for Super Mario Bros. 3.
Im sorry but im sick and tired of this crap cliche, of how poor old nintendo are the only company concerned with making good games for the consumer, and the 'evil' microsoft and sony are just big bad corporations trying to take your money away.
Its total b******s, and would appear to be working very well for nintendo.
They are ALL huge companies, and whether your too naive to believe it or not, they are ALL intent on trying to take your money.
And dont forget, before the wii, all nintendos consoles were just video card and cpu upgrades, so they arn't superior this time around simply because they're using a fancy controller.
Poor old nintendo, the only company focused on delivering quality games, hahah, please, what a crock.
A whole new way in playing those games again " BRING IT ON "
Instead of playing those same old games now with nothing but a face lift( nothing underneath has changed )& higher price tag, just to be traded in in a matter of days due to their lack of longevity ,originality & after the initial attention of the "next gen "eyecandy has worn off .
They could've brought something fresh to the table ,not just continued with what is really just a natural advancement in technology.
It's posts like these that make me sigh. This facelift/better graphics argument is so silly, and seems to be borderline obsessive by the Ninty fanboys.
Firstly, the Sony and MS consoles offer far more than just a facelift or better graphics, I could go into the whole physics/AI/freedom thing, but I've done so in another post.
Secondly, how many of these fanboys bought a SNES? Or a N64? Why? When the NES was supposed to provide great games, why didn't they stick with that? After all, the graphics don't matter so long as you have great gameplay.
Aah, you might say, aah but the other machines allowed bigger and better games. What, with their better CPUs?
And if it's the innovation you're after, then where were you in Ninty's darkest hour, the Virtual Boy? That was innovation city. Okay, so it gave users blinding headaches and vomiting, but no other console offered that, huh?
When I play games, I do so to relax or let off steam. And like I didn't want the side effects of Virtual Boy, I don't want to get sweaty and flail around like a tw*t, so that is one of my many reasons to not get a GameCube v. 1.1. I'll stick with my "facelift" machines.
I do agree with McGee with Microsoft and Sony competing for market domination which results in hard cash. This is somthing we all know. Lol what makes me laugh is the way he is bang on with Xbox 360 and PS3 just being technical upgrades with out much user interface being re-designed.
Wii will win alot of people over just like the DS has and I'm more interested in playing the Wii rather than admiring the graphic qualities of the PS3 and 360"
just like what i said in my comment in the xbox360 formum. the two giants MS and Sony are just competing with each other..not the next gen systems...Sony will have less originality compared to MS as MS invented the the online console gaming in the next gen area..Sony are just copying that now, which is nothing new.
Wii as I said, is the console for fun, new games (hopefully) and a bit more innovation.
I hope Wii is successful, and i hope a lot of people buy it.
Its only the rich kids in the Uk that will be buying the PS3 or more so ignorant ones, well most of the kids in the Uk arent ignorant, they just go for the ones everyone else has and if the Wii can be that one, i believe nintendo will own the Uk.
Movies that rely on CG instead of plot get boring real fast. Why would I want the same thing done to gaming.
Oh and I forgot - they will also be adding advertising into the games I pay for? Bugger Off Sony & Microsoft.
Right, since you're using movie analogies, how many silent movies do you watch a week? How many using stop-motion special effects rather than CG?
What you're getting from Ninty is restrictions, whether they have that controller or not.
By giving a greater cpu speed with parallel tasking, and much greater graphics, Sony and MS are allowing developers the freedom to work on greater physics, greater AI, and greater gameplay. Do you think GameCube v. 1.1 will be able to house the technology that LucasArts have come up with for their upcoming games, technology which allows true freedom as you'll be able to perform actions that the developers haven't even thought of themselves?
Then freedom isn't a favourite word at Ninty, whether it's the games themselves, where you're free to do what Ninty tell you to, or the developers, who are only free to do what Ninty tell them to. Remember when they said that if it was up to them, GTA3 would never have come out? One of the most groundbreaking games to have been released in the last 10 years, and Ninty would have just stomped their foot on its throat.
And as for "advertising", it's product placement, and has been around for decades in gaming (even on Ninty products), and is only as annoying as it is obtrusive, i.e. if it doesn't interfere with the game it doesn't really matter. For example, and going back to the film analogy, if someone in a film drives a car, that car is product placement but doesn't really matter, as the guy's got to drive a car. However if for example I went to see a kid's film, I would be a bit peeved if the entire film was made to advertise one product. Like "The Wizard". Which was a 90-minute advert for Super Mario Bros. 3.
You really are talking a load of crap! So you say, you need to have better graphics, and more power to make better games. Therefore a console which is going to be more successful is a more powerful console. Is that what you think?!
Where do you stand on the Psp v Ds argument. Either way, you lose. If you support the Psp, you lose, because it has sold nothing compared to the massive success of the Ds which continues to outsell the Psp by huge amounts. Ds is a lot better than Psp, it has sold a lot more than Psp but which is more powerful!? I would say Psp, would you?
If you support the Ds, you lose, because you are again, going on about power winning the day when your Ds is giving the Psp the thrashing it deserves.
Why do you keep calling the Wii a Gamecube 1.1 or whatever! Are you mad?! Yes you are! Surely if you think a console is just an update, then you have to say both Microsoft and Sony have updates. It has shinier graphics! Woo hoo! How boring!!! Nintendo have exciting new games, exciting new ideas, where as Sony are releasing what?! A new Gran Turismo. The same as the last but this time it looks awesome! Oh yes, reason enough to spend £500 on it. Sod off! Ps3 and X360 are both a rip off. They've not put any effort into creating new, fun ideas. Nintendo have. Nintendo are going to win the next gen war.
If you are a true games fan, then i would imagine you've searched the Net looking at other comments and opinions by other gamers. Surely you've noticed the console with the most positive comments. It sure aint the Ps3! It's the Wii! Ps3 is a pile of junk! You are in the minority!
What a tool, I wonder how much Nintendo paid him. Nintendo is the only company that will be making profit on the hardware units while sony and microsoft are losing money on every sold xbox360 or PS3. So if someone is 'focused on making money', it's nintendo from my point of view.
You sound a little ignorant, nintendo has said they will at least take more than a one yen hit. And every work we do in this world all boils down to money in the end, so i wonder what you are yammering about and i believe Sony is more after money than any of the other giants.
What a load of crap. At least the Xbox360 and PS3 consoles have upgraded CPU's and graphics. The Wii console is just a slightly faster Gamecube.
Is he really trying to say that next gen is solely determined by the controller. Let's face it, if Nintendo was running NASA then we wouldn't have reached the moon yet. The Wii isn't next gen it's old gen.
To make a new console, as I see it, you have two options that are perfectly fine to go for.
Tecnical improvement Control improvement
Ideally I'd go for both. I prefer control improvement tbh, as I am not unhappy with the graphics we have today.. The PS3 is trying to do both, with the motion sensing. Oh but there's a snag-the price tag. Oh yeah and PS3 is s**t.
Someone earlier was talking about the new power being able to give physics and more advanced AI. Except for in the really decent games this won't happen. It'll be flash and bang looking better, though it will look a lot better. But will it feel better.
The same is true for the Wii. Not everyone will fully embrace the fantastic controller and its oppertunities, but make stale old games with maybe the controller getting a look in.
Also, with the power arguement, you hit a brick wall called the PC. PC gaming is evolving much quicker than consoles can keep up with. Unless the 350 and PS3 plan to have upgrades made for their consoles then they can't compete with PCs in the long run. And if they do? Well, they're basically PC's anyway.
These arguements are quite pointless really. Before long we'll have the answer to the Next/New gen thing. Anyone who knows me will know I want Nintendo to win. But I try to be impartial on these forums if I can.
Lastly, this is the way I see it. The PS3 and 360 are taking a meal with a recipie years old. They add spice and flavour, trying to improve this forumla. The Wii is instead changing the ingredients. Hmm...I want food...
Movies that rely on CG instead of plot get boring real fast. Why would I want the same thing done to gaming.
Oh and I forgot - they will also be adding advertising into the games I pay for? Bugger Off Sony & Microsoft.
Right, since you're using movie analogies, how many silent movies do you watch a week? How many using stop-motion special effects rather than CG?
What you're getting from Ninty is restrictions, whether they have that controller or not.
By giving a greater cpu speed with parallel tasking, and much greater graphics, Sony and MS are allowing developers the freedom to work on greater physics, greater AI, and greater gameplay. Do you think GameCube v. 1.1 will be able to house the technology that LucasArts have come up with for their upcoming games, technology which allows true freedom as you'll be able to perform actions that the developers haven't even thought of themselves?
Then freedom isn't a favourite word at Ninty, whether it's the games themselves, where you're free to do what Ninty tell you to, or the developers, who are only free to do what Ninty tell them to. Remember when they said that if it was up to them, GTA3 would never have come out? One of the most groundbreaking games to have been released in the last 10 years, and Ninty would have just stomped their foot on its throat.
And as for "advertising", it's product placement, and has been around for decades in gaming (even on Ninty products), and is only as annoying as it is obtrusive, i.e. if it doesn't interfere with the game it doesn't really matter. For example, and going back to the film analogy, if someone in a film drives a car, that car is product placement but doesn't really matter, as the guy's got to drive a car. However if for example I went to see a kid's film, I would be a bit peeved if the entire film was made to advertise one product. Like "The Wizard". Which was a 90-minute advert for Super Mario Bros. 3.
You really are talking a load of crap! So you say, you need to have better graphics, and more power to make better games. Therefore a console which is going to be more successful is a more powerful console. Is that what you think?!
Where do you stand on the Psp v Ds argument. Either way, you lose. If you support the Psp, you lose, because it has sold nothing compared to the massive success of the Ds which continues to outsell the Psp by huge amounts. Ds is a lot better than Psp, it has sold a lot more than Psp but which is more powerful!? I would say Psp, would you?
If you support the Ds, you lose, because you are again, going on about power winning the day when your Ds is giving the Psp the thrashing it deserves.
Why do you keep calling the Wii a Gamecube 1.1 or whatever! Are you mad?! Yes you are! Surely if you think a console is just an update, then you have to say both Microsoft and Sony have updates. It has shinier graphics! Woo hoo! How boring!!! Nintendo have exciting new games, exciting new ideas, where as Sony are releasing what?! A new Gran Turismo. The same as the last but this time it looks awesome! Oh yes, reason enough to spend £500 on it. Sod off! Ps3 and X360 are both a rip off. They've not put any effort into creating new, fun ideas. Nintendo have. Nintendo are going to win the next gen war.
If you are a true games fan, then i would imagine you've searched the Net looking at other comments and opinions by other gamers. Surely you've noticed the console with the most positive comments. It sure aint the Ps3! It's the Wii! Ps3 is a pile of junk! You are in the minority!
Oh and GTA is the worst game i've ever played.
Okay DS v. PSP. Well I own a PSP and not a DS, so surely my opinion will be biased, huh. Well, as a games machine, I would say the DS is better, as there is more choice of games and the games are more suited to the handheld format (although I personally haven't enjoyed the games I've played on DS, but that's personal choice). As a handheld device, PSP is better as it offers so much more than the games, and some of the games are excellent.
Okay, my reason for calling Ninty's next console the GameCube 1.1, apart from the actual name they've given it being crap. Or p**s,. Or whatever. Let's switch the companies. If Sony were to bring out, as their next console a machine that is slightly more powerful than the PS2, and say that they're tired of this technology race, and bring out the controller which is....the EyeToy (let's pretend that the EyeToy hadn't come out before this) then the smallest unit of time ever mentioned would be the distance between the announcement and the Ninty fanboys crying Bulls**t. And quite rightly. Sony fanboys would start arguing that this is true innovation that the next-gen shouldn't be about giving the biggest spaces to do with what they will. This would be wrong.
Therefore I believe what Ninty have revealed is a slight upgrade to the GameCube. Ergo GameCube 1.1. The controller and marginal increase in power (mainly to support the peripheral) should have been packaged up as an add-on to the GameCube. But luckily, Ninty have a cult-like fan-base that would pay anything for anything they release, so they tell you it's a whole new console. Which, of course, you're excited about.
Of course, anything I say isn't going to bother you, because you know that you're right and I'm wrong. After all, the whole internet agrees with you, right?
And as for that last line, if you truly believe that GTA3 is the worst game you have ever played then you, sir, are either a liar, dumb as a stump, or haven't played that many games. Being a Ninty fanboy, it could be the latter, as they don't seem to release that many games for their consoles.
Nintendo have exciting new games, exciting new ideas, where as Sony are releasing what?! A new Gran Turismo. The same as the last but this time it looks awesome!
You would appear to be fairly naive here, nintendo have the biggest family of characters they re-use in games than any other console maker.
Already they have said they're going to release smash bro's, mario, zelda, metroid, wario, mario kart, and many others!
Yes, nintendo make many re-hashes of games. You seem to have forgot that simply because they are using a different controller
Read my other post on page 1
Oh and GTA is the worst game i've ever played.
Hmm, you obviously havent played too many games then have you
From what i've read all of you are counting the past as if it's the future and the future as if it's the past, It's as simple as this, all consoles offer something to those who want it, BUT most people think the Wii offers something to everyone so if you dont like that it has an improved graphics chip than the Xbox and can put out better frame rates than the other two competitors, then dont bloody complain and go get the other two while the other people who think the controller and the games of the Wii are innovation go get their Wiis.
yesterday it was the name, today it's the graphics, i just wonder when you guys will come to realize that we all have different opinions about what we want to see, i'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that when the Wiimote settles in after a few years everything will seem generic with better graphics and AI and then we'll be back to square one.
We should know that not everything is about AI and Graphics or control, it's about appeal, whosoever you can appeal to will buy your product, you guys can figure out the rest.
Too bad you'll be playing the same old shooters, nintendo franchises and fifa games on your wii but with a different controller ..... and gamecube graphics.
A whole new way in playing those games again " BRING IT ON "
Instead of playing those same old games now with nothing but a face lift( nothing underneath has changed )& higher price tag, just to be traded in in a matter of days due to their lack of longevity ,originality & after the initial attention of the "next gen "eyecandy has worn off .
They could've brought something fresh to the table ,not just continued with what is really just a natural advancement in technology. ...............................................
Wonder why we have such a lack of originality, "something new",?
When these "different" products which we (you will be one of these ) scream out for come out ,we then don't bother playing/buying them because they don't fit the " norm " and the cycle continues!
The same reason why games are so short/easy ,the casual gamer doesn't want to spend time playing a game which take him a long time to go through, he wants to be able to blast through so he can say how quickly and easily he completed ( owned ) the game,then moan about it not lasting long considering it cost xx bucks.
But if the games weren't made like this the casual gamers wouldn't buy them and the games wouldn't be made,cycle continues!
Yes, Nintendo are making a new Zelda, Mario etc. But they are going to have different storylines, different characters, different settings etc. Gran Turismo will have the same cars, the same tracks + a few new ones thrown in. Wow!
The new Mario game is unlike any Mario game before it! Come on, you aren't that thick are you?! Zelda looks great, and will have a different storyline and different places than in the past! Simple to understand isn't it! It has already happened to the X360. Same old games being released with shinier new looks. Look at PGR3. Played it in Game i think it was, after 10 seconds, i forgot i was playing 3 and not 2! It was exactly the same!
I have played many games actually. Just because i'm supporting Nintendo doesn't mean i like only Nintendo games. I've owned a Megadrive (no not a Snes!), Ps1, Dreamcast, N64, Gamecube, Xbox, GBA and a Ds. Is that ALL Nintendo!? No it isn't! I've got 20 or so games for each console. GTA is ONE OF THE WORST GAMES I'VE EVER PLAYED, maybe not the worst, but certainly up there! It's awful!
To make a new console, as I see it, you have two options that are perfectly fine to go for.
Tecnical improvement Control improvement
Ideally I'd go for both. I prefer control improvement tbh, as I am not unhappy with the graphics we have today.. The PS3 is trying to do both, with the motion sensing. Oh but there's a snag-the price tag. Oh yeah and PS3 is s**t.
Someone earlier was talking about the new power being able to give physics and more advanced AI. Except for in the really decent games this won't happen. It'll be flash and bang looking better, though it will look a lot better. But will it feel better.
The same is true for the Wii. Not everyone will fully embrace the fantastic controller and its oppertunities, but make stale old games with maybe the controller getting a look in.
Also, with the power arguement, you hit a brick wall called the PC. PC gaming is evolving much quicker than consoles can keep up with. Unless the 350 and PS3 plan to have upgrades made for their consoles then they can't compete with PCs in the long run. And if they do? Well, they're basically PC's anyway.
These arguements are quite pointless really. Before long we'll have the answer to the Next/New gen thing. Anyone who knows me will know I want Nintendo to win. But I try to be impartial on these forums if I can.
Lastly, this is the way I see it. The PS3 and 360 are taking a meal with a recipie years old. They add spice and flavour, trying to improve this forumla. The Wii is instead changing the ingredients. Hmm...I want food...
Now this is a decent, cogent, logical post.
I only have to take you to task on the P.C. area. If I were to be a P.C. gamer, I would only have the choice of cetain genres, those that fit the P.C. best. Consoles offer more choices in genres. Also the cost is something that shouldn't be glossed over. I own Oblivion on my 360, and a friend of mine owns it on a PC that cost over twice the price of my Premium 360, and yet it doesn't compare. If I wanted to play games the quality of my 360 on PC, I would have to part with a hefty amount of cash.
Also you move into bias with your last statement. If at the beginning you say they are both relevant, then this statement contradicts that. Plus, I'd question how what is essentially a peripheral (something outside the console) is food whereas the technological improvements inside the console is just spice. After all, did the steering wheel or light-gun provide more meat to games?
The new Mario game is unlike any Mario game before it! Come on, you aren't that thick are you?! Zelda looks great, and will have a different storyline and different places than in the past! Simple to understand isn't it! It has already happened to the X360. Same old games being released with shinier new looks. Look at PGR3. Played it in Game i think it was, after 10 seconds, i forgot i was playing 3 and not 2! It was exactly the same!
Most sequels are different from the game before it, that's why they're sequels, not remakes. So taking that into account, the only thing the next zelda's got going for it is that it "looks great". Wow, those graphics do matter then. And it's speaks volumes that the only games you're highlighting on the new, non-ninty platforms are driving games. If the game is simulating driving, there isn't that much scope for innovation. You can improve the graphics and handling and that is pretty much it. In GT's defence, what was shown at E3 is not what is being released, but an example of a game (albeit a last-gen game) running in graphics that have been improved to show off 1080p (a bit more research would have helped you with that). And 10 mins in a shop on PGR3, or any other game for that matter, cannot give you a fully informed opinion. A lot of the innovation involved in PGR3 is in its use of online, which adds much more depth.
And even if you've changed your mind and GTA3 is now only one of the worst games you've ever played, that's still pretty dumb. You can say that you didn't like it, but you must still recognise the impact it had on the industry, and on games in general. Plus you should be able to appreciate the freedom that the game offers. To sum up, "least favourite" and "worst" are 2 separate things and shouldn't be confused, lest it taints the rest of your argument.
I only have to take you to task on the P.C. area. If I were to be a P.C. gamer, I would only have the choice of cetain genres, those that fit the P.C. best. Consoles offer more choices in genres. Also the cost is something that shouldn't be glossed over. I own Oblivion on my 360, and a friend of mine owns it on a PC that cost over twice the price of my Premium 360, and yet it doesn't compare. If I wanted to play games the quality of my 360 on PC, I would have to part with a hefty amount of cash.
Also you move into bias with your last statement. If at the beginning you say they are both relevant, then this statement contradicts that. Plus, I'd question how what is essentially a peripheral (something outside the console) is food whereas the technological improvements inside the console is just spice. After all, did the steering wheel or light-gun provide more meat to games?
With regard to PC gaming the price is always an issue isn't it? I don't really have an answer for that issue. It's just the choice of the consumer and their cash amount.
As for PC gaming the only situation I have found that the mouse and keyboard fail is in adventure games. And even then it isn't failing, it's just being a little less easy to use than a console. FPS and strategy games are perfect for the PC. Sports sims and racing games can be made more liveable.
For my food analgy (sp?) the food, I suppose are the games. I don't think i contradict myself. Perhaps what I said gave the PS3 and 360 a negative connatation, but it was not my intention. It's just the difference of improving a game or changing it.
fustercluck: as soon as you use the word fanboy, i really can't take you seriously! Pathetic! You've already lost the argument!
Wow, it's taken how many uses of the word fanboy in all these posts for you to take umbrage?
Or is it that you realise that term hits a little close to home,?
Or is it that you realise that your comments are coming over as ill-informed, and even a little fan-boyish, forcing you to make ridiculous knee-jerk statements about certain games, that others are noticing and so feel you should quit while you're behind and hope that this last post gives you the upper hand.
Therefore I believe what Ninty have revealed is a slight upgrade to the GameCube. Ergo GameCube 1.1. The controller and marginal increase in power (mainly to support the peripheral) should have been packaged up as an add-on to the GameCube. But luckily, Ninty have a cult-like fan-base that would pay anything for anything they release, so they tell you it's a whole new console. Which, of course, you're excited about.
Its not a marginal increase in power, Nintendo have said that the Wii will have more than 3 times the poewr of the Gamecube, that's enough to make it a fair bit more powerful than the Xbox.
Another thing, its not the cult-like fanbase that Nintando have, and I'm not arguing that they haven't, who are really being targeted by the Wii. There will be games that satisfy this audience but Nintendo are targeting a larger audience, the people who never played games before and those, like myself, who have become bored and disillusioned with console gaming.
I only have to take you to task on the P.C. area. If I were to be a P.C. gamer, I would only have the choice of cetain genres, those that fit the P.C. best. Consoles offer more choices in genres. Also the cost is something that shouldn't be glossed over. I own Oblivion on my 360, and a friend of mine owns it on a PC that cost over twice the price of my Premium 360, and yet it doesn't compare. If I wanted to play games the quality of my 360 on PC, I would have to part with a hefty amount of cash.
Also you move into bias with your last statement. If at the beginning you say they are both relevant, then this statement contradicts that. Plus, I'd question how what is essentially a peripheral (something outside the console) is food whereas the technological improvements inside the console is just spice. After all, did the steering wheel or light-gun provide more meat to games?
With regard to PC gaming the price is always an issue isn't it? I don't really have an answer for that issue. It's just the choice of the consumer and their cash amount.
As for PC gaming the only situation I have found that the mouse and keyboard fail is in adventure games. And even then it isn't failing, it's just being a little less easy to use than a console. FPS and strategy games are perfect for the PC. Sports sims and racing games can be made more liveable.
For my food analgy (sp?) the food, I suppose are the games. I don't think i contradict myself. Perhaps what I said gave the PS3 and 360 a negative connatation, but it was not my intention. It's just the difference of improving a game or changing it.
That's fair enough. Maybe a different analogy along the same lines would be whether you want a higher grade of meat, or a more exotic dish from the previous meat.
Yes, Nintendo are making a new Zelda, Mario etc. But they are going to have different storylines, different characters, different settings etc. Gran Turismo will have the same cars, the same tracks + a few new ones thrown in. Wow!
I love the way your comparing all the ninty remakes i mentioned earlier to one racing franchise.
What about smash bro's, that wont be any different to the previous installments. In a way you could compare it to the new gran turismo, new tracks, (or levels in this case) couple of new characters, and better graphics.
And you never mentioned metroid, wario or mario kart. They will all be fairly similar to previous installments, the only difference been graphics. Hmm, you still sure nintendo are the 'innovators' of the games industry?
The new Mario game is unlike any Mario game before it! Come on, you aren't that thick are you?! Zelda looks great, and will have a different storyline and different places than in the past!
WOW! sounds just like any other remake of any other game! New levels and new story! Yea! Innovative!
Same old games being released with shinier new looks. Look at PGR3. Played it in Game i think it was, after 10 seconds, i forgot i was playing 3 and not 2! It was exactly the same!
Again, your using racing games to back up your argument.
A racing game, due to the nature of the thing, is never gonna change significantly, so you cant use that as a comparison to how nintendo are innovating games, while the 360 and PS3 are just making the same old racing games, thats daft.
The fact is, this is McGee's opinion of the new consoles coming out. Whether you think his opinion is worth the paper it's written on (or the USB flash drive it's stored on) is up to you.
Companies are out to make money full stop. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft want to make the most money from the gamers when they release their new consoles.
Nintendo know they cannot compete with Sony or Microsoft if they release a similar console to them, so they've opted to release something no one has done before.
We're all very impressed with updates. However, if Nintendo were to release a PS3-like console, I would be happy, yet I think I'd be just as bored with it as I am with my Gamecube. You've got the same games with better graphics, but better graphics only impress for so long. OK, so there's more space to put things on. We all know with most developers, this will be to put more story into the game rather than gameplay and you can't deny that. It may also be to add a few more realistic elements to games. Such as leaves falling of trees or steam coming off a hot cup of tea. Are you seriously saying this is what next gen is about?
Exactly how will AI and phsyics be improved on PS3 and Xbox360? Is it not just a case that, instead of the CPU having to work out the physics and AI for handful of items/NPCs, it can now work it out for hundreds? Well, again, that's going to get tired quite quickly.
With Wii, we have a new way to play games. I'm going to want to try a lot more games than I would with Xbox360 or PS3 because of the new way to play. I want to know what's like to control a speeding truck going over the hilliest tracks, what's it's like to make Mario jump from planet to planet, and what's like to slice people's head off with a sword with as realistic a movement as is possible at the moment. This means I'm going to spend a lot more money and Nintendo will therefore make more money.
Because that's what they're out to do. Make me spend my money.
Therefore I believe what Ninty have revealed is a slight upgrade to the GameCube. Ergo GameCube 1.1. The controller and marginal increase in power (mainly to support the peripheral) should have been packaged up as an add-on to the GameCube. But luckily, Ninty have a cult-like fan-base that would pay anything for anything they release, so they tell you it's a whole new console. Which, of course, you're excited about.
Its not a marginal increase in power, Nintendo have said that the Wii will have more than 3 times the poewr of the Gamecube, that's enough to make it a fair bit more powerful than the Xbox.
Another thing, its not the cult-like fanbase that Nintando have, and I'm not arguing that they haven't, who are really being targeted by the Wii. There will be games that satisfy this audience but Nintendo are targeting a larger audience, the people who never played games before and those, like myself, who have become bored and disillusioned with console gaming.
I would acquiesce if Nintendo, like all of the companies, were reliable in their figures (like when they said that the N64 was 64 bit), but for me the proof is in the games, and from what I've seen so far, they don't look that much more advanced (although I should take into account that the Zelda game is the one originally promised for GameCube, just shoe-horned into v. 1.1).
I also think this aiming at a larger audience is a bit of a marketing ploy. The excuse for the remote (which was before they revealed the nunchuka) was that the joypad is too confusing for the normal non-gamer and that is the reason that they don't play games. But with the addition of the nunchuk, which almost all of the games shown so far need, surely it is more confusing (especially taking into account reports of playing Zelda in e3 where journalists were saying that it would take a good hour to get comfortable with the controls).
Plus if they are after a larger audience, then why are they doing their same catalogue of titles, just adapted to the remote, and why are they targetting the younger end of the market, and so restricting growth? Particularly after the success of the DS in Japan, which can be wholly attributed to Brain Age, surely they must see that grown-ups may want to play games too. I would argue that the biggest barrier to the mass market playing games is that they are, in some sectors, still thought of as for kids. The huge furore over Hot Coffee would not be worried about in the States if it weren't for this attitude, one that is fostered by Ninty (for more info on Ninty's beliefs on who games should be made for, read the book Masters of Doom).
It won't be known truly how much Ninty want a larger audience until they start marketting the machine. I f the adverts are along the same lines as the DS adverts for New Mario, then we'll see that they are still going after their fanbase (the very model of preaching to the choir).
With the likelihood of coming off as a fanboy, I'd like to take everybody through a little bit of videogame history. 1983 the console market was shot down by the success of computers, mainly because they were similarly priced and marketed as similiar products, but that computers could do more. Store's had the hardest time selling videogames. So they stopped stocking them. Most Video game companies went under, and the few that survived decided that they'd be content with the arcade scene. not Nintendo. Instead they released the NES under the disguise of a robot toy, R.O.B., if it weren't for R.O.B. we'd all be stuck with computer's and arcades. there would be no consoles today. and the man Mario became a household name, The word Videogame was replaced with the word Nintendo in the U.S. Next generation around Sega bet Nintendo to the floor but the Super Nintendo had much better games. I remember the days when you were either a Sega Player or a Nintendo Player, thet was a tough rivalry, I lost a few friends over it! but the intuitive design of the SNES controller was just so much easier than the three button accross system Sega decided to use the invention of the "R" and "L" shoulder buttons was also entireley Nintendo's idea. and for innovation let's not forget Mario Paint. you could write songs, draw pictures, animate cartoons, it was great, and all at the click of a mouse. Then came the N64. with the added cost of sticking with cartridges, they lost some third party support, also having the games on discs would have enabled the system to play some amazing videos, (which i must say Final Fantasy did a brethtaking job with on the PS1) The choice to stick with Cartridges is oft times considered to be one of the worst decision's Ninendo ever made, but it was one that I think was well worth it, I can't imagine what it would have been like if i had to wait for each level to load on Smash bros. Anyway, the invention of the analog thumb control stick was pure genious, something that Sony would be quick to copy as the frustration of only being able to move in eight directions at a set speed sucks in good 3d games. Mario 64 was the first game where the hardware was built around the game, and i think it was done quite well. Nintendo's lack of third party support would have spellt doom for any of the other companies, in fact it shortly did for Sega, but Nintendo backed themselves up by showing their true spirit, Aside from the aforementioned games, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which has been labeled more often than any other as the best game of all time, sold the console and robbed me of many a proper teenage memory. (I have probably spent more time roaming the feilds of hyrule than i have spent in the real sun in my entire life)
Next time around Nintendo suffered with a late start that wasn't lead on by Mario or Link. they decided to compromise with the cartridge thing, but they still had to be creative, so the made their discs tiny, multi-layered discs that despite their physical size, were bigger than the competition's, they beat otu the PS2 their main competitor in power and graphical capability, but suffering from the childlike persona they had developed from the pokemon era they had a hard time appealing to the Mature Gamer, their box looked like a toy rather than the appealing DVD player look of the PS2. Where was the Nintendo Inovation? Honestly there wasn't much, the discs were smaller, the Controller had Analog "R" and "L" buttons, the analog stick was in a better position than sony's, the system looked like a box. That was about it. The Games kicked @$$. Smash bros melee. Mario Sunshine. Wind Waker. The copy of Ocarina of Time, with the new dungeon solutions and more enemies, Nintendo began to realize what a legacy they were, and they played it up. Nintendo's one weakness was lack of third party support due to the fact that gamers with money preferred the PS2 and later the Xbox. don't get me wrong I love out-running cops in a tank as much as the next guy, but that was rockstar's gift to gaming. Sony has no right to it. Why deny it? Halo was nothing more than a Remake of Perfect Dark for the New Generation. Not going to go into it, but the handheld market is also rightully Nintendo's and always will be.
Here comes the next generation, Every Innovation that makes us want to play games was invented by Nintendo, the next one is Viewed as a flashy "Last Stab" at it gimmick. it is no such thing. Nintendo know what makes games fun, and as I surf the net I have yet to find anyone who's actually played thing and been dissapointed. Nintendo suffered with the Gamecube, but now is their time to reclaim their rightful position as lead of the gaming industry. Sony and Microsoft aren't in it for the games, they're in it for the money, if not from the sales of their systems the publicity attained thereby, for sale of their other products. Nintendo just wants to make us happy and play a good game, I know that sounds like a biased view. and it is in alot of ways. I love Nintendo, My Wife and I would play Mario 3 on the real NES when we were dating, and that was only three years ago. but in conlcusion Nintendo is Genious, they are the true blue Artist style Company that everyone deep down roots for. Video games are a part of Popular Culture and Nintendo is the one who got them into our homes. My Favorite Poll I've seen online posed the question, what to buy? wii and 360, wii and PS3, or wii. by the way the mistake that Sony is making of releasing a more poerful system at double the price of it's competitors is a mistake that many people have made before. all of which didn't last. 3DO, Jaguar, Saturn, Dreamcast, game gear (or as I call it the battery burner), not to mention every single system that was around in 1982. As the Seventh Generation of Video games begins to take shape I can't help but feel Nintendo is the only one to step it up to a new level, or maybe they're already slipping into the eighth.
A whole new way in playing those games again " BRING IT ON "
Instead of playing those same old games now with nothing but a face lift( nothing underneath has changed )& higher price tag, just to be traded in in a matter of days due to their lack of longevity ,originality & after the initial attention of the "next gen "eyecandy has worn off .
They could've brought something fresh to the table ,not just continued with what is really just a natural advancement in technology.
It's posts like these that make me sigh. This facelift/better graphics argument is so silly, and seems to be borderline obsessive by the Ninty fanboys. The same thing can be said of the M$ & sony fanboy!
Firstly, the Sony and MS consoles offer far more than just a facelift or better graphics, I could go into the whole physics/AI/freedom thing, but I've done so in another post. Natural progression of technology which nintendo could have designed their machine around ,(then the argument would be an easier("what's unique amongst the 3 consoles"),why they didn't ?
So far this is all the M$ console has shown, the technology is there and being used but when the software developers don't really no how to put this together properly they end up releasing 2 minute eyecandy wonders that appear on the pre owned shelf within a matter of days ,which inturn has the devs complaining about why the games stores are not ordering more NEW copies of their wonder titles.
Secondly, how many of these fanboys bought a SNES? Or a N64? Why? When the NES was supposed to provide great games, why didn't they stick with that? After all, the graphics don't matter so long as you have great gameplay.
I myself started with the SMS,( the vast majority of the uk at the time were all playing games on ZX spectrums,amstrad cpc or the C64 computers,the first real take up of a nintendo machine in blighty began with the launch of the snes) never bothered with the NES then moved onto the grey import Megadrive because of seeing Ghouls n ghosts then when SFII came out on the SNES i went with that , it's been the same way ever since , no fanboy favourism at all, just on the quality of the software not on the "brand name" or "what's under the hood" VF5 is released i'll be getting a machine second hand for it ,the same when gears of war is released ( i'll be getting the firmware flashed to run a back up copy of it)
At that time my friend we were just young nappy wearing toddlers ,and the console market at the time was not as it is today , it was seen as toys for the children ,neither was the interweb there to supply us with the info on what was what
Aah, you might say, aah but the other machines allowed bigger and better games. What, with their better CPUs?
Yes they did that then as it allowed the software developers at the time to start putting their ideas into reality,but today those ideas aren't " fresh " as they were before now, they have reached a plateau ,( just about everythings been done )what can we do now to grab peoples attention after all it's NOW costing us millions to make these games ( just like movie production ), EB & the other retailers have shelfs full of second hand copies of these awe inspiring " not just eye candy " titles within days of their release, quicker than when the last gen consoles came out!
And if it's the innovation you're after, then where were you in Ninty's darkest hour, the Virtual Boy? That was innovation city. Okay, so it gave users blinding headaches and vomiting, but no other console offered that, huh?
It WAS something new & innovative but also had a major problem as you pointed out that made it flop,but they did do something new ,S-H-I-T but new ,and i didn't sit denying this with my rose tinted fanboy spectacles on or bringing up nonsense about other companies which haas nothing to do with what we're moaning about.
When I play games, I do so to relax or let off steam. And like I didn't want the side effects of Virtual Boy, I don't want to get sweaty and flail around like a tw*t, so that is one of my many reasons to not get a GameCube v. 1.1. I'll stick with my "facelift" machines.
Again with the virtual boy & old tecnology , the machines of now is what we're talking about!
Still people keep thinking the Wii controller relies on having to wave your arms about, just as you'll have to have your arms outstretched when using the tilt ps3 controller, not true!
Quality!
If nintendo had made their machine along the same specs as M$ & sonys then we'd not be talking (much )about what's under the hood,it would mostly be down to the lack of "something new" appearing on the machines, then the difference would be even more clear
Then came the N64. with the added cost of sticking with cartridges, they lost some third party support, also having the games on discs would have enabled the system to play some amazing videos, (which i must say Final Fantasy did a brethtaking job with on the PS1) The choice to stick with Cartridges is oft times considered to be one of the worst decision's Ninendo ever made, but it was one that I think was well worth it, I can't imagine what it would have been like if i had to wait for each level to load on Smash bros.
The retention of the cartridge format was nothing to do with the games themselves. It was purely financial.
After the success of their 2 previous consoles, Ninty believed themselves to be all-powerful (with history kind of repeating itself with Sony's "The next generation doesn't start until we say it does". They'd already refused Sony's add-on to their SNES because they realised they'd have to pay some money Sony's way.
By keeping the cartridge format, they were restricting the size of games distributors could make. But they could also charge the developers a licence fee to develop games on their console. Then they could charge them for the quality assurance testing. Then they could charge them for the manufacture of the cartridges. Then they could charge them for the distribution of the software. And they could do this because they were Nintendo. Developers would be stupid not to develop for one of the 2 world leaders in games, right?
This is why Sony managed to get great 3rd party support and so win that generation.
Also, Ninty did NOT invent the anolgue thumbstick on a consoles pad. This had been done as far back as the seventies (I remember using one on my Binatone Mk10 in the mid seventies).
This master of innovation owes everything to Nolan Bushnell, because without his true innovation (and I don't care what Ralph Baer says), Nintendo would still be making playing cards.
Again with the virtual boy & old tecnology , the machines of now is what we're talking about!
Still people keep thinking the Wii controller relies on having to wave your arms about, just as you'll have to have your arms outstretched when using the tilt ps3 controller, not true!
Quality!
If nintendo had made their machine along the same specs as M$ & sonys then we'd not be talking (much )about what's under the hood,it would mostly be down to the lack of "something new" appearing on the machines, then the difference would be even more clear
As far as Sony and MS fanboys are concerned, you're right. Although they are not afraid to say that more power and better graphics can make better games. Because of the line spun by Ninty that they can't there seems to be this blind following that dismisses more power as bad and detrimental to the games industry instead of the good that it can do.
Obviously I can't talk about the PS3's games as I haven't played them yet, just as I can't say, for sure, that Ninty's machine won't have good games. But I can tell you that the 360 has great games, that are next-gen, and it is because of the increase in power and graphics.
So what I'm objecting to is this instant dismissal of all that isn't Ninty because of this company line that's been fed to its fanboys. That this remote isn't the Emporer's new clothes that I believe it is.
As far as innovation, I see it as an improvement on Sony's Eyetoy, pure and simple. And when Sony brings out their peripheral, for which the patent has been reported throughout the net, which works in a similar way to the remote, but using the EyeToy instead of the complex setup for the Ninty console, will the Ninty brethren then suddenly have a road to Damascus-style conversion? or will they then cry foul and accuse Sony of copying (making sure they ignore Ninty's own copying in the past)? Or will they start going on about how the quality of Ninty's games are far superior? The former is never going to happen, the middle is more likely, where at least the latter is more acceptable (as at least it's personal choice that sways them).
Wow, loads of posts. Im really disapointed that an interesting topic went down the fanboy route.
Well, i know im buying a Wii just from the social point of view. Playing games like Warioware and Wii sports are not deep games and long lasting games but you would have alot of fun playing with your mates. If theres booze involved it would be jokes swinging away and putting top spins on your shot with a flick of the wrists or trying to solve silly tasks in a few seconds.
Yeah i am interested in the games that will get everyone playing. Anyone would find it easier to swing a remote than holding a control pad and revising which each button does.
I think this is one of the reasons why nintendo have gone down the slighlty cheaper route, i think alot of the games would be pick up and play. This might result in shorter games, but if ur paying less then I would assume thats not bad at all.
Alot of people have resentment for the Wii, im more curious to see how sensitive it actually is. Either way im defanatly gonna play Wii. I just cant understand how people are writing off such systems without even playing them. Oh buy the way, I have to be honest and say the first generation Xbox360 games have been rather depressing. Im hoping the second generation will be better but i think the 360 and PS3 will take at least 2 years before we see any real breath taking games.
I think the best combination is to have the Wii and 360 or PS3, thing i cant decide is it gonna be Microsoft or Sony. They seem so similar
fustercluck, my deepest regards go to Mr. Bushnell, although the 2600 had all but died along with the entire industry of console gaming until Nintendo picked it back up, and put it on it's feet. I'm very proud of the pre-NES history of video games. but the NES was the central turning point that changed videogames from a cheep multi company toy to a single reliable system that hundreds of games could rely on. despite the blowing.
Wow, loads of posts. Im really disapointed that an interesting topic went down the fanboy route.
Well, i know im buying a Wii just from the social point of view. Playing games like wario ware and Wii sports are not deep games but you would have alot of fun playing with your mates,(and if theres booze involved it would be jokes) swinging away and putting top spins with a flick of the wrists.
I think this is one of the reasons why nintendo have gone down the slighlty cheaper route, i think alot of the games would be pick up and play. This might result in shorter games, but if ur paying less then I would assume thats not bad at all.
I think the best combination is to have the Wii and 360 or PS3, thing i cant decide is it gonna be Microsoft or Sony.
Why not go for all 3? obviously not all at once, but if you get a 360 now, save up some money get your Ninty on in November, and get your PS3 next year when it's dropped in price, got more games, and is easier to pick up?
All this brand loyalty will come to an instant end amongst the adult male gamers when playmate interactive featuring your favourite piece of skirt gets released on Wii ( added attachments included)
Why not go for all 3? obviously not all at once, but if you get a 360 now, save up some money get your Ninty on in November, and get your PS3 next year when it's dropped in price, got more games, and is easier to pick up?
Hahaha thats the plan, only thing is being a student I cant afford two expensive systems. Maybe this isnt gonna be a problem with people with fully time jobs.
But fustercluck, i have to agree with your plan. Get the best of everything and if these companies are going to implement their systems for around 5 years then why not! plenty of time to save!
YCompletely new, innovative games that capture my imagination not the same old cyborg shooting the same old aliens but with better graphics. Nintendo shall lead the way for year to come IMO.
Ironic, considering one of the Wii launch titles is Metroid Prime: Corruption .
(This is from a lover of both the GameCube and Metroid Prime.)
YCompletely new, innovative games that capture my imagination not the same old cyborg shooting the same old aliens but with better graphics. Nintendo shall lead the way for year to come IMO.
Ironic, considering one of the Wii launch titles is Metroid Prime: Corruption .
(This is from a lover of both the GameCube and Metroid Prime.)
fustercluck, my deepest regards go to Mr. Bushnell, although the 2600 had all but died along with the entire industry of console gaming until Nintendo picked it back up, and put it on it's feet. I'm very proud of the pre-NES history of video games. but the NES was the central turning point that changed videogames from a cheep multi company toy to a single reliable system that hundreds of games could rely on. despite the blowing.
I think you're kinda right with the famicom picking the industry back up, in a way.
The crash happened, if I remember rightly, around late 1983/early 1984, and I think the Famicom was released around then in Japan, although we didn't see it here until years after.
I think, though that Sega should also be given a little credit in the revitalisation of the industry, at least in the west, as I seem to remember the NES and the SMS coming out for the same Christmas (I bought the SMS). I feel that it was the competition between the two, and their respective fanbases, as well as some good software on both sides, that kicked everything off again.
I do, though, think that Nintendo themselves regarded their earlier consoles as toys, particularly in the west (I know in Japan the dream was for it to be a kid's computer, but really it was just a games machine), and to a degree I feel they still think that to some degree.
Why not go for all 3? obviously not all at once, but if you get a 360 now, save up some money get your Ninty on in November, and get your PS3 next year when it's dropped in price, got more games, and is easier to pick up?
Hahaha thats the plan, only thing is being a student I cant afford two expensive systems. Maybe this isnt gonna be a problem with people with fully time jobs.
But fustercluck, i have to agree with your plan. Get the best of everything and if these companies are going to implement their systems for around 5 years then why not! plenty of time to save!
That's the spirit! Let them compete with each other, let them say the stupid things that they have been, and we can take advantage, getting the best games that they can release. Who then wins the console war? We do.
All this brand loyalty will come to an instant end amongst the adult male gamers when playmate interactive featuring your favourite piece of skirt gets released on Wii ( added attachments included)
I do, though, think that Nintendo themselves regarded their earlier consoles as toys, particularly in the west (I know in Japan the dream was for it to be a kid's computer, but really it was just a games machine), and to a degree I feel they still think that to some degree.
I don't think they ever changed in that approach they had to consoles, regarding them as toys, they always said they were essentially a toy company. Its almost certainly the main thing that turns a lot of people off, the perception that they're using a toy. I always thought that was kinda narrow minded, the name PLAYstation doesn't exectly smack of a grown up thing to me, so it'll be interesting to see how they get around to getting the message about the Wii to older (though not necessarily old) people who hold themselves above 'toys'.
I must agree with Mc Gee, simply because nintendo offers a next generation game play. And gives the consumers (excluding fanboys you know who...)something what hasn't been done in the previous generations. This next step in game- play has a lot of promesing posibilities to make fun (new) games. What is exactly what a console should do.
Sure the other "consoles"make larger games like just cause possible but, Nintendo is the only one that is offering a true console and propably will market it like a console,and not like some kind of computer/ mediacenter/(console). The ps3 and xb360 just remind me more of computers with upgraded "new generation" processors.
But he's sure pushing it when he is saying that nintendo isn't focused on making money. Last time I checked they weren't a non profit organisation. I would agree if nintendo would sell the console for 50€ or free but they propably won't . Cause most people like making money.....
As for the new generation disk player of sony. I thon't think it will last long in the next generation. Just think about it before calling me a fan boy how maney games on DVD need more than three disk like final fantasy(s)did on the psx... Sure it's nice to have and a lot of people will want it but it's just a generation to early.
The next generation of players are already comming, imagine the possibility of smaller disks "the sice of credit cards which can hold 10X more than bluy ray, imagine a player which makes less noice beacause the disks don't need to spinn at full speed but still ofer a faster data transfer, and the possibility to be cheaper. And it's calles HVD (Holographic Versatile Disc).
As a summary only nintendo came up with a next generation affordable console which probaply will fulfill all expectations. While the others are just using some new hardware (which they want to use to pook eachothers eyes out) from which the leap isn't big enough to call it truely next generation.
The retention of the cartridge format was nothing to do with the games themselves. It was purely financial.
By keeping the cartridge format, they were restricting the size of games distributors could make. But they could also charge the developers a licence fee to develop games on their console. Then they could charge them for the quality assurance testing. Then they could charge them for the manufacture of the cartridges. Then they could charge them for the distribution of the software. And they could do this because they were Nintendo. Developers would be stupid not to develop for one of the 2 world leaders in games, right?
I'd have to disagree with you there - their decision to stick with cartridges has more to do with piracy (hence yet another new format on the GC), software quality and to a lesser extent its capabalities (no loading times etc). Since the NES, Nintendo have insisted on quality assurance to counteract a flooding of the market of poor quality products (the main reason why the industry collapsed in the early 80's) and licensing to further ensure this. It's irrelevant what format Nintendo used as this all would have happened regardless (apart from manufacturing costs) Software distribution is down to the publisher therefore that's an errornous point as well. It's true they abused their position but that happened way before the N64, but your point still doesn't hold
Although of course getting back on topic, Nintendo have stated beforehand that to start with the Wii will just bring new controls to old games, but once developers have got to grips with the hardware then we'll begin to play new games with new controls. So people who aren't already impressed with the innovation should hold their judgement until the *truly* innovative games start coming out.
And furthermore, whoever mentioned about the Wii being marketed as innovative due to the controller and implying it was just some cheap tactic......geeeez! what about the PS1 and PS2!! they broke into the mainstream by being marketed as "cool" to put it bluntly - how is that any better!? As great as Sony were in helping grow the industry, my view is that Nintendo are the only ones in the next generation who have a strategy that will benefit and grow the industry - you only have to look at the state of the Japanese market to realise what could happen over here if things aren't changed. This is all of course not even considering the implications of the spiralling development costs by following the advancement of technology route for the game studios....
What a tool, I wonder how much Nintendo paid him. Nintendo is the only company that will be making profit on the hardware units while sony and microsoft are losing money on every sold xbox360 or PS3. So if someone is 'focused on making money', it's nintendo from my point of view.
no, thats called having business acumen - being prudent and actually able to budget properly
Dude, did you read what you typed before posting it? Just that I'm confused which side of the fence you're on as you start your post with "no", I'm guessing because you don't agree, and then the rest of the post goes on to prove that Ninty is focussed on making money, them being "prudent" and being "able to budget properly".
sorry to take it back but just to clarify my point - hell, of course all the businesses are interested in making money but the fact that Nintendo make profit on their console is a moot point - it just means they can actually design hardware (which is reliable as well...) and sell it at an affordable price without selling it at a loss, unlike Microsoft for instance, who just threw a ton of cash at the Xbox to achieve market penetration. The fact that Nintendo run a tight financial ship isn't something that can be held against them - as I said earlier, its business acumen. More importantly, the fact that Nintendo are attempting to bring gaming back to its roots, haven't diversfied and gone down the multimedia route, designed hardware specifically for gaming (which is more than can be said for the PS3) and actively aiming to broaden the gaming market is why I view them as the most important company in the next generation when it comes to benefiting the video-games industry, rather than just money-grabbing which the others have been accused of (which is what I care about the most, my last few posts aren't meant as a bashing towards the other two, im just putting my view across). The more we stray away from the primary purpose of a console, the more the gaming side suffers.
Fustercluck says the Wii wont have any great games,............my friend i have news for you 62 exclusives is not a joke 163 games in the works does not fall from trees and since the Wii will cost less and less time to work on, it will only take a few months before another AAA title comes out, examples of games you say? Well Xenias, Thorn, Orb, Darkness,100 Bullets, Sadness, Heroes etc and some other titles yet to be mentioned, let's face it the Wii will have lots of games, just say you wont be getting the bloody system instead of downplaying it.
I got bored after reading halfway through the 2nd page so i just thought i'd say:
If you want a PS3, get one of them, if you like the idea of the Wii, get one of them and guess what? if you like what the 360s got goin on - how about you get one of them?
Its really not hard people
Personally for me - its my 360 (which i own) and a Wii just to see what its about when that comes out, can see it being a lot of fun, especially if i take it round my mams house on xmas day, imagine your p**sed up family - now imagine them all falling bottom over tit into the xmas tree trying to play tennis
I think Man who this article is about (who's name i have forgotten cos this forums so damned long!) was obviously silly with his whole 'Sony and M$ r money focussed' clearly forgetting that Nitnendo make comaprable profit to the WHOLE of Sony.
This actual choice between consoles is pretty cool actually, the arguement is pretty stupid. Better graphics are not worthless, how tense was RE4 when you turned around to see someone lunge at you with a chainsaw??? Thats the kind of experience better graphics gives you.
But in this generation we are spoilt with the option to buy an inexpensive Nintendo console which will give us a brand new experience (and in my opinion should not be seen as an evolution of gamecube or in line with PS3 and Xbox). Wii will be AMAZING with friends and i trully believe could do what Nitnendo want and expand the gaming market. One of my friends who thought gaming was all about sweaty teenage boys playing FPS's loved Elektroplankton, I know of parents who have bought a DS for Brain Training. But I think core gamers will love the console as well with the Virtual Console and don't forget the graphics have been improved quite a bit.
I think we should be glad to be leaving this last generation where every platform looked the same and had the same games.
For me the best experience will be Wii60. The best games and systems designed for consumers. Not an over-priced cell concept which will cripple developers, gamers and probably Sony (yes i'm talking PS3).
How can any of you talk about any of these companies rehashing there games. I'm sorry. They all do. Don't be so blind.
If you really can't see what each company is trying to do without having your eyes clouded with rage, your obviously a bias rabid fanboy.
Any of you arguing either way, clearly don't give a sh*t about the advancements of gaming. You just want defend your father land in games consoles. Grow up.
All these companies want to make money. Nintendo had to make this console the way they are planning or they would grind themselves into the ground like poor old sega. At least they fathomed a way.
PS3 is offering untold glory which everyone refuses to acknowledge with their ignorant rants on price. The fact is, this machine is armed with a processor unrivaled at multi tasking. It can render high level graphics by its self. And if I remember correctly, Midway admitted that it was running rings round there £3000 PC's they assembled and owned playing UnrealTk2007(A game I don't care about). Cell is being used to do effects in video games, previously only done in cgi movies rendered 1 frame at a time for hour each. (Obviously on a smaller scale. But hey, look at Warhawk. Not only is there Ray traced Volumetric Clouds, but ridiculous amounts of enemies on screen and cell is drawing up seens for the RSX to paint. Impressive)
360 is a solid gaming platform. It has proved itself. Anyone not happy about graphical improvements and increased ability to handle physics and such obviously doesn't care about realism and advancements in any field that can add to your gaming pleasure. Also they are giving the choice to see HD-DVD movies at an unrivaled price. O yeah... on the subject of fun it offers live which is agruably adds no end to logevity.
Now here's something none of you will want to admit. GrandTheftAuto was probably the single game that clocked up more playing hours than any other. Hell, I've got friends who just sit there and play it for 2 hours at a time now. Something I couldn't say for many games.
On fun... I recently bought Kingdom Hearts, Now there is a game thats fun. O, and its new and original.
Stop crying like girls and realize who's doing what. Everyone is doing something. If you really want something... buy all the consoles and play the best of them all.
The retention of the cartridge format was nothing to do with the games themselves. It was purely financial.
By keeping the cartridge format, they were restricting the size of games distributors could make. But they could also charge the developers a licence fee to develop games on their console. Then they could charge them for the quality assurance testing. Then they could charge them for the manufacture of the cartridges. Then they could charge them for the distribution of the software. And they could do this because they were Nintendo. Developers would be stupid not to develop for one of the 2 world leaders in games, right?
I'd have to disagree with you there - their decision to stick with cartridges has more to do with piracy (hence yet another new format on the GC), software quality and to a lesser extent its capabalities (no loading times etc). Since the NES, Nintendo have insisted on quality assurance to counteract a flooding of the market of poor quality products (the main reason why the industry collapsed in the early 80's) and licensing to further ensure this. It's irrelevant what format Nintendo used as this all would have happened regardless (apart from manufacturing costs) Software distribution is down to the publisher therefore that's an errornous point as well. It's true they abused their position but that happened way before the N64, but your point still doesn't hold
If the issue was that Nintendo are paranoid about piracy, then why have they gone with the DVD format for their new console? This does not make sense. It may have been one of the excuses given by the mighty N at the time, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.
And software distribution for N64 product was done by Ninty themselves. This is why you had all software, regardless of country of origin, being released in Japan first (with usually around a year-long wait for European release).
Yes, they abused their position before, but the restrictions, and basically extorion, that Ninty were trying to pull with the N64 were what made most 3rd party developers, most notably Squaresoft, balk and jump to Sony, who at the time, wisely, presented a more developer-friendly alternative.
Fustercluck says the Wii wont have any great games,............my friend i have news for you 62 exclusives is not a joke 163 games in the works does not fall from trees and since the Wii will cost less and less time to work on, it will only take a few months before another AAA title comes out, examples of games you say? Well Xenias, Thorn, Orb, Darkness,100 Bullets, Sadness, Heroes etc and some other titles yet to be mentioned, let's face it the Wii will have lots of games, just say you wont be getting the bloody system instead of downplaying it.
Dude, where did I say that Ninty wouldn't have great games? Don't lie, or put words in my mouth just to support your own, blinkered, argument.
The only statement I have made regarding Ninty's games is this:
Obviously I can't talk about the PS3's games as I haven't played them yet, just as I can't say, for sure, that Ninty's machine won't have good games. But I can tell you that the 360 has great games, that are next-gen, and it is because of the increase in power and graphics.
If you got a little confused during this paragraph, and in your Ninty-tintied specs just saw the phrase "Ninty's machine won't have good games", then it says it all about the way you formulate your opinions, i.e. you only see what you want to see.
Next time you want to argue one of my points, I'd suggest you learn to read, then take the time to understand my point in the first place.
More importantly, the fact that Nintendo are attempting to bring gaming back to its roots, haven't diversfied and gone down the multimedia route, designed hardware specifically for gaming (which is more than can be said for the PS3) and actively aiming to broaden the gaming market is why I view them as the most important company in the next generation when it comes to benefiting the video-games industry, rather than just money-grabbing which the others have been accused of (which is what I care about the most, my last few posts aren't meant as a bashing towards the other two, im just putting my view across). The more we stray away from the primary purpose of a console, the more the gaming side suffers.
During their initial announcement for their new console, one of Ninty's main points was that it could now play DVDs. How is this not going down the multimedia route, and therefore making the gaming side suffer (granted the fact that DVD could be on it's way out means that they're a little way behind).
And I won't go much further into the whole business/money grabbing argument, as for me business IS money grabbing, just that one had positive connotations while the other has negative, but it doesn't seem like that's the case for you, so we would be butting heads for ages and getting nowhere.
And as an aside, how is going back to their roots going to make the industry grow? At their roots they had less gamers than they do now.
During their initial announcement for their new console, one of Ninty's main points was that it could now play DVDs. How is this not going down the multimedia route, and therefore making the gaming side suffer (granted the fact that DVD could be on it's way out means that they're a little way behind).
And I won't go much further into the whole business/money grabbing argument, as for me business IS money grabbing, just that one had positive connotations while the other has negative, but it doesn't seem like that's the case for you, so we would be butting heads for ages and getting nowhere.
And as an aside, how is going back to their roots going to make the industry grow? At their roots they had less gamers than they do now.
I've got to admit I've never heard about Wii being used as a DVD player, not arguing with you about that but I'd just never heard it before now but that hardly makes it really multimedia either, lets face it DVD players are everywhere now so there's probably not that many people who'll use it that way anyway.
McGee was wrong in his statement about the money making, of course Nintendo are in it for the cash, if they weren't they wouldnt exist. I think the point he was trying to make, badly it has to be said, is that Sony and MS have basically just upgraded their previous consoles and done little else to encourage developers to be creative. They just want games to be bigger and prettier, and Ken whats-his-name from Sony actually said that himself, he wants developers to make hugh games for this generation. This leads to the main problem for developers making games for the PS3 and 360, the high development costs make it hard for publishers to take a risk on an unusual game. The easier and cheaper development costs for the Wii mean that developers can make something different without as much financial risk.
As for going back to their roots, Its ont so much going back in time as making simpler games, this is Nintendo's idea to grow the games market, make games that are easy for anyone to play. The Wario Ware games are a good exmple of this, games that almost anyoenc an pick up and play, even my parents can play them but there's not a hope of either of them being able to play Metal Gear Solid or even a Mario game. There will still be the bigger more complex games, Metroid and Call of Duty spring to mind, for more established gamers as well, they'll not be forgotten.
The fact that so many publishers and developers have now turned round and decided to give the Wii a shot points to Nintendo being on to something, regardless of the machines relative lack of power compared to its rivals.
Ok, I wasn't going to say this but I feel that for the good of this thread, I have to. fuster, the reason everyone is arguing with you is because you're coming off as being rabidly anti-Wii and seem to have closed off to the ideas that Nintendo have put forward about this console generation. If you don't like the idea of the Wii and its aim then that's up to you to decide, but don't close it off completely, at least wait to see the machine in action and have a go first hand rather than dismissing it. The fact is that of all the media sources that were at E3 and other places and had a go on it there has been an overwhelmingly good resopnse to the Wii, how it works and the games that have been revealed so far. Just on that basis surely its worth giving a shot rather than just shooting down unmercifullly?
fustercluck you seem an intelligent guy with a good knowledge of gaming! now imagine the gaming world without nintendo, i hope the wii is a success or we are all doomed to halo99 and gta300!! sony and microsoft have done much for the industry but we need nintendo!!!
Ok, I wasn't going to say this but I feel that for the good of this thread, I have to. fuster, the reason everyone is arguing with you is because you're coming off as being rabidly anti-Wii and seem to have closed off to the ideas that Nintendo have put forward about this console generation. If you don't like the idea of the Wii and its aim then that's up to you to decide, but don't close it off completely, at least wait to see the machine in action and have a go first hand rather than dismissing it. The fact is that of all the media sources that were at E3 and other places and had a go on it there has been an overwhelmingly good resopnse to the Wii, how it works and the games that have been revealed so far. Just on that basis surely its worth giving a shot rather than just shooting down unmercifullly?
If I'm coming off as a bit rabid, then I apologise, however I think in response to some of the more reasonable posts, I have been fair. I have encouraged the purchase of Wii in one post, and have even stated that I can't judge the games on the console until I play them.
I do however reserve the right to call bulls**t on a lot of the crap being spewed by Ninty and regurgitated by their rabid fanbase.
When the likes of Ken Kutaragi or Peter Moore talk about 4d gaming or the zen of gaming, people call bulls**t, and quite rightly. But there doesn't seem to be the same critical mind used when listening to Nintendo. With the lazy enhancement of their console being hidden behind what is essentially an improvement, even if it is large, on the Eyetoy and then saying that they're going after the mass-market and then displaying the same old franchises but with a different controller, none of its fanbase seem to stop and think. It's such a good case of misdirection, that they should be in the Magic Circle.
So why did I bother adding to this forum? Well, back in 1993 the first real wave of attack on gaming and its supposed bad effects on youth went to the US courts, going after companies such as Midway and id. Nintendo sided with the prosecutors against these companies, with Howard Lincoln (then NoA Pres) keeping the company line that games are just for kids, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar. If Ninty had had their way, id could have been finished, and so would not have discovered talent such as one American McGee, so for him to come out with such a statement pretty much sickened me, more than the bulls**t of the companies themselves.
So I came on the forum to voice my disapproval and found the usual pro-Ninty, Sony and MS are evil and bad for games and they're not true next-gen, crap with huge factual inaccuracies and felt like responding, which then led to some more inaccuracy and even bending of my words.
This is probably when I got a bit rabid.
SO, I apologise, but somewhere in there you can find a couple of more reasoned posts.
And catgrabber (nice name), believe it or not, I don't want a world without Nintendo, as competition in gaming is essential (I've already acknowledged ninty/SEGA, but I could extend that to Spectrum/C64, Atari/Intellivision/Coleco or more recently Ninty/SEGA/Sony), but unfortunately Ninty seem to have taken themselves out of the competition, with comments like that they're not competing with Sony or MS, and that they're not "next-gen" but "new-gen" (the bulls**t statement that I feel kicked off this ridiculous next-gen argument). And I don't deny Ninty's important place in gaming, however it is only a part, and Ninty aren't the be-all end-all gods of gaming that everyone are making out, there are plenty of other names and companies that should be equally acknowledged, but aren't (personally I feel Sir Clive Sinclair should be named the father of modern gaming, but that's my view).
Wow, this was only supposed to be a short post before I turn in.
At no point did I really intend to discourage anyone from buying the Wii, but if there is massive criticism against the other two players (which, to go back to catgrabber's (snicker) point, conversely imagine gaming without Sony's input), then that should be held in context against Ninty's failings. Although some people here don't seem to have heard the phrase about people in glass houses.
Although I must say, as long as they keep the standard of quality up, I'd be happy with GTA3000, let alone GTA300.
hey imagine this devices could connect each other so that the PS3 would be the sparkling breaktrough fx graphics component, the xbox 360 would be the software especial really nice fancy platform, nintendo Wii would keep realtime storage device always cooler, the 3 devices forming the core processor and every controller and add-on peripheral were multiplayer cooperative ways of design....
hey imagine this devices could connect each other so that the PS3 would be the sparkling breaktrough fx graphics component, the xbox 360 would be the software especial really nice fancy platform, nintendo Wii would keep realtime storage device always cooler, the 3 devices forming the core processor and every controller and add-on peripheral were multiplayer cooperative ways of design....
Holy hell in a handcart - is that even a language? Put some pants on boy and go read a book, and stop whackin of in my tool shed!
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),why they didn't ? 
.
possible but, 
. Cause most people like making money.....
