Microsoft has suggested that multiplayer gaming through Live on Windows Vista will be a free service, unlike on Xbox 360 where users have to subscribe to Gold membership to access to multiplayer.
During an interview with 1UP.com, Microsoft's Shane Kim was asked whether it'd be free for PC users to play against friends, while certain premium-level stuff would be locked behind Gold. "Theoretically speaking, that's exactly the kind of thing we'd want to do", he replied.
PC gaming's traditional 'multiplayer for free' ethic that exists with the platform is a factor being taken fully into account by Microsoft for Live on Windows.
"In the Xbox world when we created Xbox Live, there was no other option. We're sort of creating it as we go, we established that model and that framework. As we come into the Windows gaming world, there are alternatives that are out there so we have to be cognizant of that", said Kim.
"We do recognize that, unlike the Xbox 360 environment, there's existing competition in the PC online space. So we have to take that into account as we think about how we're going to structure our services, what they'll pay for and what they won't".
It's possible that Microsoft's plan for an integrated Live experience across PC and Xbox 360 could prove positive for 360 owners in regard to paid-for content. If multiplayer gaming's provided free through Windows Live, then the company may just see fit to offer the same to Xbox 360 fans.
It would be nice but let's face it, there's no competition for microsoft's Live service on the 360 therefore they c an charge what they like. If there was no competition on the PC you'd better believe microsoft would be charging.
Free play, possible for the PC platform but I reckon it's highly doubtful for the 360.
I don't actually begrudge Microsoft's decision to charge Ł40 for a year's gold subscription. I get my money's worth from the service and have no complaints about it. I could see someone's point if they only wanted to play occasionally online but weren't prepared to fork out for it, but I'm on as often as I can and imo I'm getting more than I pay for.
If Sony provide a credible, reliable, well supported & free online gaming service, then MS will follow suit and drop the price tag currently attached to XBox Live. Until then, MS have no requirement to change things - most people are happy enough with the service to consider it to be good value for money. Until that changes, MS's pricing will stay as it is.
Interesting. I think MS knows what a hard sell their Live service will be to PC gamers who have had things pretty good - not to mention free - for a while now and see no reason to get excited about a closed, proprietary system for online gaming. I still want to hear much more about what Live will actually offer PC gamers because TBH at the moment being able to play (*cough* beat *cough* ) XBox gamers online isn't really that much of a draw in itself.
Interesting. I think MS knows what a hard sell their Live service will be to PC gamers who have had things pretty good - not to mention free - for a while now and see no reason to get excited about a closed, proprietary system for online gaming.
You say that as if PC gamers have been abusing some special privilege, when of course the reality is that Xbox users get ripped off. It's just a classic case of a company abusing its monopoly.
You pay for the console You pay for the game You even pay for the internet connection And you have to pay a superfluous FEE on top of all that?!
Well, it was obvious that MS were not gonna have any joy trying to charge PC users for what they already have.
I would be interested, though, if they would be cooperating with all the developers out there, as well as all the people that run the servers, to give us a unique 'passport', so as to protect our nicknames, keep track of some serious league play across different servers, and generally track what badasses we are, etc etc.
For such an inclusive, all-in-one service, I might even pay as much as Ł5 a year....
...I still want to hear much more about what Live will actually offer PC gamers because TBH at the moment being able to play (*cough* beat *cough* ) XBox gamers online isn't really that much of a draw in itself.
Agreed. I think the major draw for me (being a subscriber already) would be the ability to access the friends list and the functionality that it provides when integrated with PC games. Cross-platform play would only interest me if developers start innovating with it (e.g. RTS player on the PC directing Xbox players in an FPS maybe).
Even so, the Live framework is very good and allowing PC developers access to it could potentially reduce the strain of writing network code and allow them to spend it on improving gameplay instead.
IMO this whole idea sucks! why fix what is not broken?!?! PC gamers have been playing online games fine for YEARS way before the xbox was even a glint in Bill Gate's eyes! why F*ck with PC online gaming? what is it going to offer more? Please Microsoft F*CK OFF
What a surprise. English_Crusader doesn;t like something that Microsoft is doing
It sounds like a great idea to me, and opens up the prospect of pc gamers playing against console gamers. I do think the pc lot should have to pay an equal amount for the service though.
Personally, I've no problem with subscribing to the service. realistically, it's less than the price of a full game, and it adds so much to the whole experience. Have you lot any idea just how much a service of this quality costs to run, and do you really expect them to run it for free?
You only have to look at Sony's effort (which relies on the development houses providing the gaming servers instead of being located centrally) to see how much nicer the live service is for the end user.
What a surprise. English_Crusader doesn;t like something that Microsoft is doing
It sounds like a great idea to me, and opens up the prospect of pc gamers playing against console gamers. I do think the pc lot should have to pay an equal amount for the service though.
Personally, I've no problem with subscribing to the service. realistically, it's less than the price of a full game, and it adds so much to the whole experience. Have you lot any idea just how much a service of this quality costs to run, and do you really expect them to run it for free?
You only have to look at Sony's effort (which relies on the development houses providing the gaming servers instead of being located centrally) to see how much nicer the live service is for the end user.
What a total T*at you are! lets take a step back shall we! I said i don't want Microsoft Fu*king with what us pc gamers have been doing fine for years! why the hell would i want to play with console players on my P.C? if this did happen then what would happen to the things us pc gamers love like mods? and you think that pc gamers should PAY to play online when we have been doing it free for way over 10 years??? THINK next time you post crap! I have been playing PC gaming FREE since 1997 and if Microsoft think im paying for it they can suck my D*CK! also how much cash do you get to be Microsoft's bit*h?
If MS bring the whole Live service to the PC, then it'll bring with it the whole service wrap (level of service etc) that we're used to seeing on XBox Live. The service will not be compulsory (more so than it is at present on the XBox platform, as obviously on the PC there are other ways of gamin online and other online gaming services) - as such, MS are only doing what they have done elsewhere; providing feature rich services for a premium. Those that want them will pay, those that don't, won't... Quite frankly I don't see a problem either way...
For me, Live is easily worth Ł40 a year. Cheap as fook if you ask me. It really does add so much extra value to the games I own and will own in the future.
Good for you, your a PC gamer who gets online for free. Personally I couldn't give a f**k about playing PC gamers who see it as their god given right to treat everyone online like noobs and take the p**s!
At least the live community can be competitive AND friendly at the same time. I get exactly what I want, a quick blast, or hours online whenever I want it and it's extremely reliable. If that's not worth Ł40 then I don't know what is.
PS. No I don't get paid by MS and you can suck my d**k if you think otherwise.
I said i don't want Microsoft Fu*king with what us pc gamers have been doing fine for years! why the hell would i want to play with console players on my P.C?
Well, I've been playing PC games for probably 12-13 years now, (and on other platforms since 1979) so I think I can have an opinion on the subject. The thought of playing MMORPGs with vast persistent worlds populated with both console and pc players sounds actually quite intersting to me.
if this did happen then what would happen to the things us pc gamers love like mods?
What difference would it make? For If you are talking about the mods that modify the game so that you can unfairly cheat against other players, then irradicating this from PC gaming can only be a good thing in my book. It's one of the main reasons I hardly ever play online games on the PC any more. There's just too many cheats out there.
For other mods, (things that add extra levels etc) then this shouldn'e make any difference. Even no (without live) all players have top have the same mods in order to play.
and you think that pc gamers should PAY to play online when we have been doing it free for way over 10 years???
Where? Practially every decent online game I've installed in the last few years has required something like gamespy to be installed to have even a half way decent game. Gamespy is not a free service either and it's been around far longer than the new Live stuff.
THINK next time you post crap! I have been playing PC gaming FREE since 1997
Considering that online games hadn't actually really appeared in 1997, that's quite a feat. I've been playing and coding games since 1980.
and if Microsoft think im paying for it they can suck my D*CK! also how much cash do you get to be Microsoft's bit*h?
Lol, you really are a nice person aren't you. I guess it makes you feel big hurling insults at some complete stranger on an internet forum just because they have a different opinion to you
I don't give a toss about who provides the service. All I care about are great games, and a great platform to run them on. If it's a good service, I don't mind paying for it, especially if it addresses the rampant cheating, and extrememly fragmented online experience that is currently the case on the pc.
p.s. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, and to be honest, from your attitude, the system would be better off without you on it anyway
not to mention that for games like BF2, clans actually pay an expensive yearly subscription and allow pubbers to play on them for free. In all honesty how could M4 charge for that?
As for the xbox owners who are complaining that us PC gamers should have to pay also, remember, your xbox is subsidised by M$ selling it below cost, and they get their money back from you guys buyign games and gold subscriptions, us PC heads payed for our hardware
Hmmm.. definately a 'them and us' sort of thing going on, eh?
Hat off to the chap suggesting RTS PC 'game master' coupled with FPS/action-adventure xbox soldiers... a mix such as this could mean a new twist on some very common genres.
Imagine talking through Live, directing/being directed... 3 generals and 24 soldiers all tactfully playing against one another - the generals close linked to their 8 soldiers and all 3 groups of 8 soldiers able to listen in on each others covnersations...
I said i don't want Microsoft Fu*king with what us pc gamers have been doing fine for years! why the hell would i want to play with console players on my P.C?
Well, I've been playing PC games for probably 12-13 years now, (and on other platforms since 1979) so I think I can have an opinion on the subject. The thought of playing MMORPGs with vast persistent worlds populated with both console and pc players sounds actually quite intersting to me.
if this did happen then what would happen to the things us pc gamers love like mods?
What difference would it make? For If you are talking about the mods that modify the game so that you can unfairly cheat against other players, then irradicating this from PC gaming can only be a good thing in my book. It's one of the main reasons I hardly ever play online games on the PC any more. There's just too many cheats out there.
For other mods, (things that add extra levels etc) then this shouldn'e make any difference. Even no (without live) all players have top have the same mods in order to play.
and you think that pc gamers should PAY to play online when we have been doing it free for way over 10 years???
Where? Practially every decent online game I've installed in the last few years has required something like gamespy to be installed to have even a half way decent game. Gamespy is not a free service either and it's been around far longer than the new Live stuff.
THINK next time you post crap! I have been playing PC gaming FREE since 1997
Considering that online games hadn't actually really appeared in 1997, that's quite a feat. I've been playing and coding games since 1980.
and if Microsoft think im paying for it they can suck my D*CK! also how much cash do you get to be Microsoft's bit*h?
Lol, you really are a nice person aren't you. I guess it makes you feel big hurling insults at some complete stranger on an internet forum just because they have a different opinion to you
I don't give a toss about who provides the service. All I care about are great games, and a great platform to run them on. If it's a good service, I don't mind paying for it, especially if it addresses the rampant cheating, and extrememly fragmented online experience that is currently the case on the pc.
p.s. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, and to be honest, from your attitude, the system would be better off without you on it anyway
Hold up im damm sure in 1997 i was playing Starcraft, TA, and dark forces 2 jedi knight online! oh and i have never payed to play BF2, CS:Source, DoW or Guild Wars online so i really doubt you play PC games online at all. Please get your facts right before trying to be a smart ass because now im sure you feel like this
I had figured they'd just slightly modify the gold/silver subscriptions so that Silver included player matches, and you had to have gold to get fully involved with the ranked games and trueskill stat tracking. I had considered that fair until a mate pointed out to me that actually, gamers with Vista will have paid plenty upfront for this kind of functionality to be included.
I'm actually quite surprised by the lack of comments from current Live players saying this is unfair. The only negativity here is from the occassional PC player saying "Grrr MS and money and grrr and its always been free!!111"
Hold up im damm sure in 1997 i was playing Starcraft, TA, and dark forces 2 jedi knight online!
I stand corrected. I've been playing games for so long, the dates tend to blur after a while (and I'm not sad enough to try and remember them). Starcraft was released in 97 - I was sure it was more recent than that
oh and i have never payed to play BF2, CS:Source, DoW or Guild Wars online so i really doubt you play PC games online at all.
Because you haven't payed for an online service that means I can never have played online pc games. Could you please direct me to any logic in that arguement...
I have played a lot of online games on the PC, (I was even a member of a BF1942 clan at one time). I've pretty much given up recently due to the general poor standard of it. The Live experience on the 360 is far superior. I only tend to play single player stuff on the pc now.
Please get your facts right before trying to be a smart ass because now im sure you feel like this
Why? Just because I got a date wrong
My comment about pc online gaming still stands. It is fragmented at best, and most games seem filled with cheats, campers and other idiots determined to make the experience for genuine gamers as poor as possible.
I'm actually quite surprised by the lack of comments from current Live players saying this is unfair. The only negativity here is from the occassional PC player saying "Grrr MS and money and grrr and its always been free!!111"
I think it is a little harsh for Xbox owners to have to pay whilst PC owners get it for free but the reality is that current set ups for both systems are just that. One pays whilst the other (apparently)* gets it for free.
I think the question is are xbox owners getting value for their Ł40 subscription?
For most people I think the answer is probably a yes. I know I don't have a problem with it.
* Disclaimer. (I'm no expert when it comes to PC online gaming)
Xbox gamers pay for Live, but what do they pay for the operating system that it runs off?
I'm a 360 player and a PC player by the way, and can't wait for Live Anywhere to really kick in (though i suspect I will be forced to wait for a long time yet).
I think they may well adjust the live service for 360 users to maybe allow for playing online could be made free where you would have to upgrade to Gold & pay for additional services like content download & movies etc.
i've been a live subscriber from the very start and i have no problem about having to pay the subscription.But y should we have to pay between Ł10-20 more for a multi-format game which has no difference to the pc version, after all the 360 is based on pc technology and microsoft said themselves it's pretty easy to port to 360 with their xna toolset.
i've been a live subscriber from the very start and i have no problem about having to pay the subscription.But y should we have to pay between Ł10-20 more for a multi-format game which has no difference to the pc version, after all the 360 is based on pc technology and microsoft said themselves it's pretty easy to port to 360 with their xna toolset.
Partly this is because when releasing games on consoles, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo get a cut of the revenue. PC games do not have to generate that money.
Partly it is historic. Console games have always cost more than PC games (originally cartridges were more expensive to make than floppy disks or casettes).
There are more reasons, but you are right, console games are probably more expensive than they need to be. On all formats, not just the 360 though.
PC has generally been free online gaming because the company which makes the Game includes it's own online multiplayer client.
Seriously, if Microsoft tries to put Live on PC, it just won't work. Companies won't want to use it if people have to pay becuase It'll lose them sales. Why get BF3 if it uses live, and thus have to pay 40Ł a year, when you could get UT4 which doesn't?
Seriously, if Microsoft tries to put Live on PC, it just won't work. Companies won't want to use it if people have to pay becuase It'll lose them sales.
On the other hand, they won't have to spend millions of dollars running their own servers. Microsoft will do it for them. So, in that respect they will save an awful lot of money.
Why get BF3 if it uses live, and thus have to pay 40Ł a year, when you could get UT4 which doesn't?
Seriously, if Microsoft tries to put Live on PC, it just won't work. Companies won't want to use it if people have to pay becuase It'll lose them sales.
On the other hand, they won't have to spend millions of dollars running their own servers. Microsoft will do it for them. So, in that respect they will save an awful lot of money.
Why get BF3 if it uses live, and thus have to pay 40Ł a year, when you could get UT4 which doesn't?
You might if you want to play BF3 and not UT4.
Then again, who is going to buy an FPS which doesn't have multiplayer? Sure, they sped money on server costs, but if they don't put in multiplayer no one buys the game. And presuming that the server is only used for storing server data, and that the people themselves host the actaull games or pay other people to host them for them, I don't think that server budgets for the company would stretch into the millions. If they did, indie games wouldn't have multiplayer (Toribash is one example)
So basically, Xbox360 owners will be subsidising PC gamers? That doesn’t seem fair.
I would be gutted if I was paying for gold and then PC gamers came in and got it all for free. MS is now making money from 360 sales, yes, I’m sure Live is wonderful and Ł40 over a whole year isn’t a huge price. But it’s the principle and there isn’t one 360 gamer out there who isn’t going to be a little mift at this, is there? And don’t lie. With a possible influx of PC owners then I think the price can be cut, a lot, to somewhere nearer Ł15. Offer it to PC gamers for free for a set time and then charge them – if Live is as good as every one says then I’m sure a large number will be willing to pay.
And to English Crusader going on about PC gamers not wanting to play console gamers – get a grip! Why would PC gamers not want to play console gamers? Are they all snobs who look down on consoles? Do they all think that because they game on PC’s that they are superior somehow? And if this is the case why are you – clearly a PC gamer/snob - always banging on about how you will be getting a PS3 as soon as it hits the shops? Gonna slum it with the riffraff are you? We’re all gamers, whatever platform we choose to do it on shouldn’t matter one way or the other.
So basically, Xbox360 owners will be subsidising PC gamers? That doesn’t seem fair.
Sorry but I don't think so.
So console jockeys pay around Ł300 for the console, and then Ł40 per annum for the Live gold service.
Now, has anyone here seen the prices for Vista upgrades/oem's/boxed??? We're talking the cost of the xbox360 to get Vista Ultimate. Add to that the cost of a decent PC to run Vista in the first place (it can be rather resource heavy) and then having to upgrade to every couple of years to play the new shiny games.
So no, I don't think the Xbox owners are paying over the odds at all.
I don't think the Xbox owners are paying over the odds at all.
I do.
Just because the 360 costs less than a hi end PC with Vista doesn’t mean PC owners should get a service for free that 360 owners have to pay for. PC’s do a lot more than just play games and when you buy one you get all of that and you pay for it. You should still have to pay for a service that other people pay for. It costs money to run Live after all. If you are going to bitch about upgrades and the cost of PC’s I think we would be entering a different discussion, and one that’s not really relevant. If Live is free to one section of the gaming community then it should be free to all.
I don't think the Xbox owners are paying over the odds at all.
I do.
Just because the 360 costs less than a hi end PC with Vista doesn’t mean PC owners should get a service for free that 360 owners have to pay for. PC’s do a lot more than just play games and when you buy one you get all of that and you pay for it. You should still have to pay for a service that other people pay for. It costs money to run Live after all. If you are going to bitch about upgrades and the cost of PC’s I think we would be entering a different discussion, and one that’s not really relevant. If Live is free to one section of the gaming community then it should be free to all.
I'm not bitching (hell, the only games i'm playing at the mo is WoW and UFO: Enemy Unknown!!!!) I just feel that the cost of upgrading to Windows Vista pretty much covers the costs associated with Live. Let's face it: if you wanna play online from a console, ya gotta get an Xbox (at the moment, and it's M$ so money to them). If you wanna play on a PC, you need Windows (and yes I know there are Mac and Linux lovers out there, but we're not talking overly new user friendly systems here) Either way, M$ wins the prize one way or another.
If you don't want to pay or play their way, well then don't. Take up another hobby. Like fishing.....or dogging!
And to English Crusader going on about PC gamers not wanting to play console gamers – get a grip! Why would PC gamers not want to play console gamers? Are they all snobs who look down on consoles? Do they all think that because they game on PC’s that they are superior somehow? And if this is the case why are you – clearly a PC gamer/snob - always banging on about how you will be getting a PS3 as soon as it hits the shops? Gonna slum it with the riffraff are you? We’re all gamers, whatever platform we choose to do it on shouldn’t matter one way or the other.
So, You are suggesting that games like Counterstrike would be playable to the same standard as PC? CS:S needs good reactions and fast movement AND accuracy at the same time, and in my opinion, that just isn't possible on a console controller. Seriously, People would just host servers that say "low ping no 360" and stuff like that.
also, What I don't get is why Microsoft feels they HAVE to have Live on PC, and force everyone to use it. The current systems work fine.
i've been a live subscriber from the very start and i have no problem about having to pay the subscription.But y should we have to pay between Ł10-20 more for a multi-format game which has no difference to the pc version, after all the 360 is based on pc technology and microsoft said themselves it's pretty easy to port to 360 with their xna toolset.
It's becuase Microsoft loses ~75Ł per Xbox360 they sell, so they make the money back by charging insane amounts for the games.
The only reason xbox would be doing this is to desperately make some quick sales before the ps3 bursts through the door and farts on the 360's. Nuff sed
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
) XBox gamers online isn't really that much of a draw in itself.
