The BBFC has rejected Manhunt 2 on PS2 and Wii, the ratings board has revealed, meaning that the sequel "cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK".
We've called Rockstar several times but have yet been unable to contact anyone.
According to the BBFC, the decision to refuse the game a rating was taken by the Director and the Presidential Team of Sir Quentin Thomas, Lord Taylor of Warwick and Janet Lewis-Jones.
Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act, distributors have the right to appeal the Board's decision.
David Cooke, Director of the BBFC said:
"Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board's published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.
"Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game. That work was classified '18' in 2003, before the BBFC's recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category.
"Against this background, the Board's carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public."
Check back for updates this afternoon but be sure to join the debate below.
Update 2: The Irish Film Censor's Office has also banned the release of Manhunt 2.
"A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2. The Order was made on 18th June 2007 under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to 'acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture)'.
"IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable." Update 2 out
Noooooooooooo, I really want this, do you think that if it gets accepted in another PAL territory we can still get hold of it? Providing they have an English option!!
A hell of a lot of gamers are going to be dissapointed by this, although I kind of Agree with the bbvwhatever. Its very violent, and although Ive never played the original, my dissapointment isnt great, It just isnt my cup of tea.
Heres an idea, don't let parents buy the games for their derranged kids! This way, people that are legally old enough to play the games can enjoy them for what they are, games, and we don't have to hear more of "manhunt made my child, thats too young to play the game anyway, go crazy and kill his best friend!" =O
they've gone mad, this has really tickled my p**sed off nerve! I'm sure if this was a movie it would get released. Just because some old fart can't understand video games and thinks it influences young people the rest of us have to suffer! Is there not a petition to get this game released if not please CVG START ONE!
Noooooooooooo, I really want this, do you think that if it gets accepted in another PAL territory we can still get hold of it? Providing they have an English option!!
I'm curious how entirely violent and graphic films never fall under this same category. Further more it seems like absolute political correctness gone mad to deny the game to adults, will it now also be decided for us what we can and can't watch/read/listen to?
If it doesn't come out over here I'm sure plenty of people (like me) will end up importing it. A Wii freeloader disc should hopefully be available by then.
Oh, and how come PEGI can't rate it? Why does it have to be the BBFC?
The BBFC's research on games was very good and even handed and if they think this game should not be released I trust their judgement. Games like this are very damaging to the industry. Look at what has happened to Resistance Fall of Man at the moment, thats overeaction, but people would have a field day with Manhunt 2. Rocksatr a just chasing controversy and they have shot themselves in the foot by releasing somthing with no artistic merit to justify content.
I'm with the BBFc on this one. The game is overly violent and to be honest, I was surprised the first manhunt got released. On another note, violent video games do affect young children. they may not go out on a killing spree, but it does desensitise them to violence, which can't be a good thing. Yes, i know children shouldn't be playing the game, but they will be i'm afraid
I f**king dispise the BBFC with their 'holier than thou' attitude. Who are they to tell me or my family what's suitable and how it might affect us ?
I wrote an A-level piece on these cretins once, and took great pleasure in highlighting their double standards when it came to film censorship.
I'm not so annoyed about the fact that it's Manhunt 2 (let's be honest, the original was hardly a classic), no, it's the fact that these f**kers have now gone and set a precedent.
M'eh, stick with yer PCs games I guess, at least you can play imports relatively easily.
*picks up a plastic bag*
*throws away plastic bag in favour of a rusty spoon*
Now, where's the head of the BBFC......I want his f**king kneecaps
I personally think this is a load of bulls**t. I am not rly interested in the game myself, but the fact is, it is our right as adults to decide what the f**k we want to play/watch/read etc, not theirs. If they are really being fussy about it, why not jst make a new rating, like 21 or something if they feel as if the 18 rating is too low. Though to be honest i think 18 is more than adequate for any game/movie etc. Really p**ses me off when organisations like this think they have the right to decide what we as individuals can and cant watch, p**ses me off more that they have the authority to do it.
Oh, and how come PEGI can't rate it? Why does it have to be the BBFC?
From what I understand PEGI, is only a guide rating system. Were as the BBFC is a Law based rating system, that is required. Games do not need a PEGI rating to go on sale but they do need a BBFC rating.
They must have good reasoning to actually ban the game from retail in the UK, as like it was stated they didn't take the decision likely. Besides the fact that previously other games that encouraged sadistic killing such as Carmaggeddon for example, or movies to that extent, have been provided a rating.
Though if you remember, the original Manhunt was used as an explicit example by the mass media as a connection between videogames and murders that occurred some time ago, albeit an unproven connection. If the ratings board did not ban the sequel, then they would'nt not be seen as acting in the public interest which could dent parents confidence in the system.
Plus Rockstar have always been controvertial in the content of their videogames, so the ban of Manhunt 2 would be sending out a clear message that glorifying violence beyond a set point is unacceptable.
I am surprised and disappointed at the cries of disbelief that this game has been banned.
1 - Since no one has played Manhunt2, how can you say whether it is suitable or not? 2 - After the age of 18, does it really matter what kind of content you can watch? 3 - Speaking of content, the argument that "we are adults (and some of the comments above makes me think some of us aren't) so we should be able to watch what we want" is clearly wrong. What if someone released a game where you go around and casually rape children? Would that be acceptable? Is it not fair and necessary for the BBFC to enforce standards so that this, admittedly extreme, example does not occur? 4 - As for comparisons to other media, this is an unfair comparison. Firstly because all other media removes you from the experience so that you are an observer rather than a partaker. Secondly, to say that Clockwork Orange is all about violence is to miss the point of that movie entirely. Most other movies also have some element of relief or fantasy that clearly marks the title as just that (Hostel and it's ilk may be an exception).
The games industry is it's own worst enemy, at times, and is very immature in some of its product executions. Manhunt 2 is an example of this and nothing good will come of it.
Personally, I think that there should be a compulsory rating system for games.
Please tell me what I can do, Mr Government Man, because obviously I'm too f**king stupid to work it out for myself.
How about instead it gets an 18 certificate, and you ban the STORES who let people under that buy it? Or if parents buy it for their children, ban the PARENTS from buying games ever again?
If we let them start this, we'll be Orwellian within the century.
I'm with the BBFc on this one. The game is overly violent and to be honest, I was surprised the first manhunt got released. On another note, violent video games do affect young children. they may not go out on a killing spree, but it does desensitise them to violence, which can't be a good thing. Yes, i know children shouldn't be playing the game, but they will be i'm afraid
1st it looks like I will not be getting it from Oz. I'll have to try Amsterdam in sep (get to kill three birds with one stone.
If places where you can buy games actually vigourously enforced the age restrictions, I don't see why a game like this couldn't be released as an 18, or at an extreme, 21.
There's been fair point's posted so far but my main gripe is that they're taking away people freedom of choice. Most people so far arn't really bothered about the game and after having bought the first one i dont think i'll be investing in the 2nd game but that's up to the consumer not BBFC.
I've watched films recently that are out and out violent, degrading and disgusting so why is a videogame any different.
If manhunt was made into a film i bet it would be passed no problem, and watching a live person die on camera always seemed more real than polygons!!
I never realised the UK was turning into china. This is over the top censorship that has no place in our "free" country. Like many have said, what about films like hostal, where images of real people are tortured and killed in the sickest ways possible. To censor a work of fiction that (due to last gens graphics) looks very unrealistic, then not censor real people being "murdered" in a movie is a disgusting double standard.
typical,an actual game comes along that i want eventually for my Wii,and they ban it....is the 18 certificate not worth s**t anymore because of dizzy parents just buying it for their kids>?
oh,and Manhunt 2 is also expected to be banned in both Australia and Germany<<according to Kotaku(but not confirmed yet)
I am surprised and dissapointed at the cries of disbelief that this game has been banned.
1 - Since no one has played Manhunt2, how can you say whether it is suitable or not? 2 - After the age of 18, does it really matter what kind of content you can watch? 3 - Speaking of content, the argument that "we are adults (and some of the comments below makes me thing some of us aren't) so we should be able to watch what we want" is clearly wrong. What if someone released a game where you go around and casually rape children? Would that be acceptable? Is it not fair and necessary for the BBFC to enforce standards so that this, admittedly extreme, example does not occur? 4 - As for comparisons to other media, this is an unfair comparison. Firstly because all other media removes you from the experience so that you are an observer rather than a partaker. Secondly, to say that Clockwork Orange is allabout violence is to miss the point of that movie entirely. Most other movies also have some element of releif or fantasy that clearly marks the title as just that (Hostel and it's ilk may be an exception).
The games industry is it's own worst enemy, at times, and is very imature in some of its product executions. Manhunt 2 is an example of this and nothing good will come of it.
Personally, I think that there should be a compulsary rating system for games.
Russell
Spot on.
As for saying this is turning Britain into a nanny state... well that's bulls**t, as very very few games are banned over here. The games which are banned are deemed unfit for consumers, the same way that out of date food is deemed unfit for consumers. Yet we don't moan at Tesco for not selling us out of date food on the cheap and calling it a nanny state then do we.
Good, about time some of Rockstars games get banned, i think they just purposely make games that hit the headlines, gta, bully, manhunt all spring to mind. And to the person who said 'its only a video game' sure it is, but tell that to the psycho killers that cant tell the difference, same for videos, we have ratings for a reason...i for one applaud this decision.
Erm, not meaning to be insulting at all but you're all surprised?
Strip away the "story" and you are left with a product which simulates murder.
The story goes some way to altering this to self-defense, but still... as I understand, from what I know about the game so far, it gives you creative means with which to dispose of people.
It is possible it's a saving grace. Imagine if it got released, caused a flash of negative press for this industry, with the knock on effect being we in the UK get the same, if not worse censorship than Germany.
I gotta agree with the board on this one. I love games and love shooting aliens and blasting things. There's a fine line where the action is 'exaggerated' or comical and where things get too realistic. God of War, GTA - thumbs up whereas Manhunt just borders on the edge of sadistic human insanity. It'll just have to go underground I reckon. Leave it to the curious and deranged sickos to dig deep and get their hands on it.
Good, about time some of Rockstars games get banned, i think they just purposely make games that hit the headlines, gta, bully, manhunt all spring to mind. And to the person who said 'its only a video game' sure it is, but tell that to the psycho killers that cant tell the difference, same for videos, we have ratings for a reason...i for one applaud this decision.
BULLS@!T, rockstar are where they are today making contraversal games such as manhunt, GTA and bully, and they are 3 of the best games ever to grace the PS2, so to say what you said is ludacris
on a more personal note not only am i disappointed in manhunt 2 being banned because im a massive fan of the first one, but this looks like we will never get to see a 'next-gen' manhunt. How long until they consider banning GTA!!!
The point is that it will eventually get released.
There is no such thing as bad publicity as Rockstar have proved numerous times in the past, what with the first manhunt and hot coffee.
The amount of sales they generated from them outweighed the amount of money lost.
Rockstar would not have let one of their studios work for the best part of 2 years on a game, pile in a load of cash to keep the project afloat, only to not release it in a large market such as the UK.
Mark my words, it'll be like Carmaggedon all over again... we'll be snuff killing zombies with green blood in no time, and rockstar will have a number 1 "banned" game come autumn!
Sorry, but I doubt you'll be able to do that. The Australian authoritiess are even more anti-violence than the British ones, so if a game is banned here in all likelihood it'll be banned there, too.
Our best bet is the Republic of Ireland; I've never heard of any games being banned over there.
I was looking forward to manhunt on Wii, i think it actually looked a good game, that improved upon the original.
I'm not really hugely bothered about it getting banned, but it is worrying for other games. This is a last gen game, with the 360 and PS3 games are going to explore high definition shooting and killing, could any game like that get banned now too?
I wonder what people blamed for violence before games and movies... witches and the devil wasnt it? when will people learn its not media that makes people violent, its people that make people violent. Vioence will always be around, always, im just wondering what they will blame in the future.
I wonder what people blamed for violence before games and movies... witches and the devil wasnt it?
Well, there's also art and music, which have been being blamed for centuries. Comic books have been under fire since they came into existence, and during the 19th century there were calls to ban penny dreadfuls.
No they are where they are because of GTA and only GTA, sure its a violent game but not to the nature of Manhunt, so no reason why GTA will ever be banned, unless they go way over the top with it one day, which with Rockstar you can never tell....
Excellent post from Russell, but you all seem to disregard his very valid point.
You watch a film, but in these games you make a decision to force an act, and you are frequently encouraged to do so by the narrative or by the simple fact "it looks cool". There isn't even a voice of reason these days. For example, Mafia let you kill random people, but the cops would be on your back in seconds.
A huge milestone in film censorship was Peeping Tom. Very tame today but it was banned because it was the first film from a serial killers literal viewpoint and audiences felt like they were being forced into complying. Has society fallen so far that viewers now WANT to be complying?
And to those posters who say films get away with so much: b******s. A lot gets through for over 18s because we're supposedly adults. But not everything. Last House on the Left is still cut for instance (bloody good decision too).
Great call to suggest criminalising shops that sell this stuff to underage. Off-licences already unfairly get all the blame for underage drinking; kids will get the games, no matter what and in most cases the seller will be blameless.
What a lot of you are also forgetting is that games are like comics and cartoons, and considered by the ignorant to be for kids. Films don't have this problem, but I think it's a generation thing.
I think our grandparents didn't recognise the new flashy horror and sci-fi films as being adult, therefore the BBFC had to ban a lot more. This generation grew up on sci-fi and recognise what's for kids and what's for adults. The BBFC can leave us alone, but now games are the misunderstood flashy things that must be for kids. Give it ten years and a game like this will be recognised as adult and the Daily Mail will have found some new scapegoat.
Why is Ireland not an option I live here and hopefully will be able to pick it up, Also play.com is based in Jersey so they may sell it and even CD wow might sell it.
Bottom line is they r wrong to not release it, people should be given a choice to buy it if they want. If you don't like the game or think it's "too violent" simply just don't buy it, don't wine about it because you've got nothing better to do with your life.
And for the people who say "but little kids will play it" of course kids will get a hold of it but kids get a hold of alcohol,porn, and 18 movies, its what freedom is all about. And for one fat bold bloke to say it shouldn't be released is just wrong.
BULLS@!T, rockstar are where they are today making contraversal games such as manhunt, GTA and bully, and they are 3 of the best games ever to grace the PS2, so to say what you said is ludacris
What?! Did you even play the first game? It was a gigantic pile of foul smelling, boring s**t. I'm glad the sequel never got a rating, it means I don't even have to see that utter crap on the shelves.
Why is Ireland not an option I live here and hopefully will be able to pick it up, Also play.com is based in Jersey so they may sell it and even CD wow might sell it.
Click on my link - I was referring to you won't be able to import it from Ireland.
And I could be wrong, but I don't think Play would be legally allowed to import it if they knew they were selling something that hasn't been rated in the UK to someone paying with a UK credit/debit card.
Bottom line is they r wrong to not release it, people should be given a choice to buy it if they want. If you don't like the game or think it's "too violent" simply just don't buy it, don't wine about it because you've got nothing better to do with your life.
And for the people who say "but little kids will play it" of course kids will get a hold of it but kids get a hold of alcohol,porn, and 18 movies, its what freedom is all about. And for one fat bold bloke to say it shouldn't be released is just wrong.
Well, I'm a fat bloke too and he saying "tough"... somehow you're going to have to learn to get on with your life... IFCO classfied it, thusly:
MANHUNT 2 VIDEO GAME PROHIBITED
A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2. The Order was made on 18th June 2007 under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to ‘acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture)’.
Adequately describes Manhunt, doesn't it?
And b******s... you're as much for freedom as I am for lettuce, you just want to play this game, simple as at.
Think of it like this: if the UK, Australia and Ireland have all independently decided to ban it, perhaps they're not the "f**king idiots" that some people here seem to think they are.
I'm 21, and I have played the first game. To be honest, I was shocked at what they got away with back in 2003. And, after all the controversy and criticism Rockstar courted with the original, I can't help thinking it was irresponsible to make a sequel, regardless of the monetary benefits for the company. I can't help but agree with the point that, sometimes, Rockstar seem to create controversy for controversy's sake.
I can't say I'm not disappointed - finally a decent, adult orientated game coming out for Wii, but I think the BBFC were spot on with this one.
I don't want to get it since simulating vicious murder isn't my cup of tea but for those of you who are intrested play.com seem to be seeling it. Gameplay etc. have taken it off their sites.
"Well, I'm a fat bloke too and he saying" First off over eating will do more damage to u than this game would, so maybe u should be banned?
MANHUNT 2 VIDEO GAME PROHIBITED
A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2. The Order was made on 18th June 2007 under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to ‘acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture)’.
and thats a load of rubbish the amount of films which violate that is too many to count. There picking on video games because the bloke who decided not to release it is old and dosn't understand games and the culture of video games as a whole. He still thinks all games are made for children.
Unfortunately many parents today believe that the onus is on the authorities, and not the parents, to restrict children from viewing/playing/hearing materials which may not be suitable. Because of this culture, responsible adults are being deprived of the opportunity to choose whether or not they'd like to play this game. It's a scandalous situation, and possibly the start of a dangerous trend. Hopefully in years to come people will laugh at this decision - look at other games that caused controversy in the past such as Mortal Kombat and Carmageddon, both no more violent than many games freely available today (indeed, many games available around the time of their release as well). There will always be a scapegoat for entertainment industries - Manhunt 2 is the video game world's one now.
I can understand why those of us who are legally old enough to buy a game such as this are annoyed that it's been refused release. But on the other hand I also understand the BBFC's refusal, because even though it's an adult only game, it's still a game and many people think computer game = for kids.
So you'd see many adults buying the game for their child but ignoring the 18+ certificate on the box because they think "Oh it's a game, there won't be anything nasty in it". So I think the BBFC are protecting kids from the ignorance of the parents who really should take more notice of what they are buying.
It's a problem that's been going on for a while. My parents wouldn't let me watch Alien or Terminator until I turned 18, but on the other hand they had no problem with me playing Dracula on my C64 which was one of the very first 18+ games ever made.... The game was rubbish, but that's beside the point
The thing that is very annoying though is the fact that the BFCC will allow movies like Hostel and the Saw series to be release, which are nothing more than an excuse to show some needlessly gratuitous violence, with very little plot, yet they wont release a computer game that's of a similar style.
Also another point to add is banning something NEVER WORKS! The BBC radio banend the song "relax" in the 80's and it still managed to get to the top of the charts and stay there for weeks because everyone bought it just to see what the fuss was all about. The movie The Exorcist was banned but I know of loads of people who had bootleg copies of it even before the ban was lifted in the 90's.
All this is going to really do is increase the games piracy problem. Most people who can't buy the game over here will try to import, but a lot of people will get their internet buddies in other pal countries to send them a copy.
So it "cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK"? In this modern age of online-retailing and eBay, surely it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of a copy. Even if Rockstar manage to overturn the BBFC's decision, I can't see the high street retailers and supermarkets stocking it now. So, Rockstar must also be considering selling it direct and shipping the product from the US or wherever it can.
And as for all these idiots saying "Great! It should be banned!" just grow up, you're missing the point. Every adult should have the right to watch, read or play whatever he or she chooses.
"Well, I'm a fat bloke too and he saying" First off over eating will do more damage to u than this game would, so maybe u should be banned?
MANHUNT 2 VIDEO GAME PROHIBITED
A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2. The Order was made on 18th June 2007 under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to ‘acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture)’.
and thats a load of rubbish the amount of films which violate that is too many to count. There picking on video games because the bloke who decided not to release it is old and dosn't understand games and the culture of video games as a whole. He still thinks all games are made for children.
You're making assumptions there.
It is not one persons judgement, BTW. It is usually a panel, the days of Mary Whitehouse are over.
Funny, I think there are quite a lot of video games in which you can kill loads and loads and loads... ooooh, Dead Rising, Fable, Oblivion, GTA, COD, Halo, Resident Evil, in fact... I cannot be bothered.
Your argument is flawed when I simply say that on Saturday I greatly enjoyed chainsawing flesh in Gears of War, watching the screen get coated in gore.
I also watched the demo to Bioshock, by the end of which you are set up to kill a child who trembles and cowers as you approach.
Thing is, the context of the game is what matters... its who you're killing and how.
Where do you draw the line, Plodalong? Or do you think that any subject matter is open for gaming?
No. This game has received a fair judgement, in my opinion... it is obvious you're simply p**sed about it.
Everything is always upsetting somebody in this country and its really beginning to get beyond the joke. Smoking is banned, games are banned say anything that might offend about 1% of the population and you're vilified! were turning into a nation of politically correct idiots. I read that eastenders recieved 80 complaints for the storyline about dawn about to recieve a caesarian section but how many people watch the show? 80 people out of millions!Its pathetic catering to the pc idiots all the time Jedi is an official religion now better stock up on Star Wars games before they are all banned!
This p**ses me off now. The Irish Film Censors are on the case as well. When the hell did the IFCO start rating games?! They never have! That's why the F in their name stants for FILM. Here in Ireland we go by the ESRB rating for games, and it's worked fine so far. This is straight-up bullsh*t. I wonder if they are doing this just to stop people from sneaking it out of the republic and up into UK territory... If so, you Brits have ruined the whole game for me! A game I wasn't anticipating in the slightest and have absolutely no desire to play!
Jokes aside though, while I wouldn't have bought the game anyway, state controlled censorship p**ses me off. I live in a free country, I am 21 years of age, I am a tax payer and a productive and equal member of society. I have the right to view whatever the hell I want and the government has absolutely no grounds to step in and tell me I can't... but they've done it anyway.
And as for all these idiots saying "Great! It should be banned!" just grow up, you're missing the point. Every adult should have the right to watch, read or play whatever he or she chooses.
Thank you for calling me an idiot, I felt I deserved it ...
You are missing the point. It isn't about restricting an adults choice, it's about restricting the vunerable from being able to see it, because of the responsible adults that don't care.
Why doesn't everyone just calm down a bit... Rockstar haven't even announced an official statement on the matter, and as i have already mentioned... it is highly unlikely that Rockstar will p#ss away the money they have piled into the game to not release it.
Give it some time, changes will happen, and it'll be on the shelves a little later than scheduled... theres to much publicity around it now for Rockstar to waste the perfect opportunity to make a killing... pardon the pun.
And as for all these idiots saying "Great! It should be banned!" just grow up, you're missing the point. Every adult should have the right to watch, read or play whatever he or she chooses.
Thank you for calling me an idiot, I felt I deserved it ...
You are missing the point. It isn't about restricting an adults choice, it's about restricting the vunerable from being able to see it, because of the responsible adults that don't care.
You idiot.
You won't get through to them... somehow they've totally forgotten about the majority of videogames contain violence and weapons and one little game gets the ban stick and it's tears all round and suddenly... Oppression.
f**k, honestly... the phrase "don't know you're born" couldn't be more apt here... really couldn't.
It's making me laugh... it really is.
They'll have to make do with slitting someones throat in MGS, or snipering someones head off in Gears... deray me, you poor oppressed bastards. Life must be so hard...
Where do you draw the line, Plodalong? Or do you think that any subject matter is open for gaming?
No. This game has received a fair judgement, in my opinion... it is obvious you're simply p**sed about it.
Haha, is it obvious yeah I am p**sed about it, tbh I wasn't planning on buying this game either. What I'm annoyed about is that if they don't release it that it's starts of a chain reaction and they start banning other games knowing they can. Which game designers start taking note of and take less risks making games and I think its too early in the video game industry to start banning games.
There is many reasons why this game shouldn't be banned, the main reason I like to think people these days should have the choice to buy or not to buy the game.
And as for do I think video games can get away with anything, then no I don't there are obvious things video games should never get away with, but with killing and torture in video games I think it should be allowed because in the end of the day its all a bit of 'harmless' fun.
Thank you for calling me an idiot, I felt I deserved it ...
Well, It was f***ing idiot at one point, but I thought that was too harsh. See, I'm a reasonable, responsible adult.
My issue is with censorship and knee-jerk reactions from sensationalist media. If I want to play this game, I should be able to. And at the end of the day I WILL play this game even if I have to go down the piracy route.
I am surprised and disappointed at the cries of disbelief that this game has been banned.
1 - Since no one has played Manhunt2, how can you say whether it is suitable or not? 2 - After the age of 18, does it really matter what kind of content you can watch? 3 - Speaking of content, the argument that "we are adults (and some of the comments above makes me think some of us aren't) so we should be able to watch what we want" is clearly wrong. What if someone released a game where you go around and casually rape children? Would that be acceptable? Is it not fair and necessary for the BBFC to enforce standards so that this, admittedly extreme, example does not occur? 4 - As for comparisons to other media, this is an unfair comparison. Firstly because all other media removes you from the experience so that you are an observer rather than a partaker. Secondly, to say that Clockwork Orange is all about violence is to miss the point of that movie entirely. Most other movies also have some element of relief or fantasy that clearly marks the title as just that (Hostel and it's ilk may be an exception).
The games industry is it's own worst enemy, at times, and is very immature in some of its product executions. Manhunt 2 is an example of this and nothing good will come of it.
Personally, I think that there should be a compulsory rating system for games.
Russell
*applause*
It seems odd that some people here don't realise that it's not being banned because children will play it, it's being banned because its content is unrelenting, excessive and brutal violence, with no other options. They aren't banning it for adults just because children might play it, they're banning it because the adults might play it.
They'll have to make do with slitting someones throat in MGS, or snipering someones head off in Gears... deray me, you poor oppressed bastards. Life must be so hard...
I can't understand why some say this will set a precedant. The BBFC have had the power to ban games for ages and it's taken this long to happen. They know what they are doing.
Frankly, I could care less about this game. I tried the first, hated it and have no intention of wasting time on this. I'm more impressed by the fact that the BBFC still have teeth and balls, and haven't folded despite the weight of the oppressed (I love that description!).
My real obsession isn't with games anyway, it's with cinema. So I've been on this merry go round many times before. The fact is, the BBFC hardly ever ban anything, but on one side you have tabloids demanding they should and on the other a bunch of people assuming they already have and that somehow it affects them and the future of society.
Anyway, despite the odd misunderstood blip, most material judged "bannable" can also be judged "dog turd".
I can't see how anyone wants to play a game like this. Mind you, I couldn't understand why my cousin laughed when he played GTA and his character got injured, so he went to a prostitute to refresh his health and then murdered her to get his money back. Apparently it was "cool" ...
I wonder if Manhunt 2 is being made a scapegoat after the furore over the Resistence:FOM (non) issue...
Unlikely.
For some reason some people think video games are vilified in some way... when the evidence to the contrary surrounds us.
I have to leave this thread cos it is p**sing me off now...
My final word is that your gaming collection got on your shelves cos the same people who have banned this game approved a classification for all the other times you've shed blood, cracked skulls etc...
It's just, this time they thought perhaps a game comprised entirelly of murder is taking it a smidgeon too far.
Thank God there are people in other parts of CVG who do see Manhunt 2 as salacious and contraversial for the sake of itself.
It's like that guy who thought he was a character from WoW, and he stole a load of stuff because he was a mentalist. What would he have done if he had been playing this game instead? It's material which fuels some mentalist's fantasy's so it can be a bit dangerous.
I dont know what your all worrying about theres a good chance the BBFC have saved us from a God awful game!! Every game that I ever remember being banned in the UK and subsequently imported has been horrendous! Anyone remember Thrill Kill? Probably not cos it was crap!
How fu*king sad is this?????????????? OH NO, MY LITTLE BRAIN CAN'T COPE WITH LIFE, I NEED A DIACTATORSHIP GOVERNMENT THAT'S CALLS ITSELF A DEMOCRACY TO MAKE ALL MY LIFE DECISIONS FOR ME AS I'M FAR TOO STUPID TO DO IT MYSELF.
Oh, Hang on a mo, what's that. Oh why it's the BBC or ITV tea time news showing REAL FU*KING LIFE DEAD FU*KING BODY'S IN IRAQ!!! Or how about on News 24 one night they showed a video of a checkpoint in Iraq being blown up, INCLUDING the poor soldier stood next to it at the time being blown away to the fu*king side in all it's ffing gory glory.
OH but a fu*king video game, OOOHHH NO WAY BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT.
I HATE THIS FU*KING COUNTRY, YOU GET TREATED LIKE BRAINLESS DUMBASS MORON MORE AND MORE EVERY DAY THAT IS TOTALLY INCAPABLE OF RUNNING YOUR OWN LIFE!!
Sorry for the shouting but this country rrreeeaaallyyy makes me sick sometimes. If I win the lotto I'm off quicker then a flea can jump!
I think you guy's that say the game is going too far should actually watch the news just to see how far they go into gory detail, oh look a missile has just killed a few people in real life! But a game that involves murder goes too far WTF??
it's being banned because its content is unrelenting, excessive and brutal violence, with no other options.
So? That's the content of many other video games since Space Invaders. It's fantasy! It's fun!
There's a market for this style of game just like there's a market for movies like Hostel and Die! You Zombie Bastards!. And because of that market (as in the opportunity to make some money), games like Manhunt 2 will continue to be made. If you don't like them, don't play them. Just please don't tell me what I can or cannot do or judge/label me for my tastes in entertainment.
If the game is so bad, how come the people at the BBFC that reviewed the game haven't gone home and murdered all of their relatives?
How come the rock star employees that made the game haven't gone on a huge killing spree?
Who says the employees at the BBFC are so sound-of-mind that they won't kill or murder anyone in the future?
If someone is going to go out and kill someone, they are going to do it because they are mental in the first place, not because they were playing a game.
I've just been playing viva pinata. I'm off to bash a defenseless animal to death with a shovel.......
I can't see how anyone wants to play a game like this. Mind you, I couldn't understand why my cousin laughed when he played GTA and his character got injured, so he went to a prostitute to refresh his health and then murdered her to get his money back. Apparently it was "cool" ...
Now I laughed at that comment, I'm the sort of person who would do that several times as it's funny, but does it mean I'll turn into a mudering bastard and run rampage through the streets with guns? Er, No to be frank it doesn't,
I've just been playing viva pinata. I'm off to bash a defenseless animal to death with a shovel.......
I've just finished Okami and I'm struggling to resist the temptation to paint lines across demons. Or is it OK to kill demons with paint (as long as it's not red)?
I'm with the BBFc on this one. The game is overly violent and to be honest, I was surprised the first manhunt got released. On another note, violent video games do affect young children. they may not go out on a killing spree, but it does desensitise them to violence, which can't be a good thing. Yes, i know children shouldn't be playing the game, but they will be i'm afraid
Sorry had to comment at it seems a few post mention this so...
Hmmm, let me see now, Is.. that.... no.... hmmmm... oh wiat,, no.. hmmmm... AHA I've got it!!! How about you put an 18 certificate on it and ONLY let 18 year olds buy it and play it rather then getting it for your 12 year old son and moaning that he now runs around cutting peoples throats??? Idiot. God that's a genius thought isn't it?
If parents can't parent properly then that's their tough s**t, not a video games fault. Oh I forgot parents can't think for themselves any more in this country can they?
Some people on this forum seem to think we should have the freedom to watch whatever we want to. Would it be right to allow people to watch children being sexually abused or to watch actual murders take place? No, because these images are unacceptable and it would take someone quite disturbed to watch such images. Manhunt is a video game, but even so, there is a limit as to what is acceptable.
Whether you agree with them or not, the BBFC have given valid reasons why it has chosen to ban the game. It seems the main reason for banning it is because the gamer is given no other choice but to kill characters in the most grusome way possible with no other alternatives being given. At least the likes of Gears of War gave the gamer a choice as to whether to use the chainsaw. Metal Gear Solid even gave you the choice of using a tranq gun instead of snapping people's necks.
At the end of the day, whther you like it or not, this decision may well be a good thing. For years, Rockstar has released controversial games and has not once defended itself from the likes of the Mail and Jack Thompson. Instead they've always hid in the background and relied on you, the gamer, as well the gaming bodies to defend their actions. If they do want the game to be released over here they will, for once, have to stand up for themselves and give valid reasons why they included such violence in their games and justify their decisions.
One final point to all those gamers complaining about the BBFC's decision - If this game continuously encourages you to commit murders in the most grusome way possible as the BBFC seems to indicate, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why you're so desperate to play the game. If you want to play the game just so you can enjoy sticking a pen in someone's eye, what does that say about yourself? Something for you to think about.
Would it be right to allow people to watch children being sexually abused or to watch actual murders take place? No, because these images are unacceptable and it would take someone quite disturbed to watch such images.
NO! BECAUSE THAT'S REALITY!!!!! MANHUNT IS FICTIONAL!!!! FICTIONAL!!!!
Glad it fell upon a game I wasn't interested in anyway....
(BTW if you really want it you can probably import a copy from Italy or wherever... and it'll still work as the same region... that's how you can get a PAL copy of things like "Rule Of Rose", after all....)
I've just read this thread and some of the posts shock me. Frankly some of you appear to be totally taken in by this governments obsessive way's of controlling what you can and can't do, what they can and can't play etc. Wake Up! Was it like this when I was growing up, no. We had freedom of choice and not a dictatorship government, and I bet the BBFC only banned it cause of the RFOM issue.
I like the fact that I live in a country with choice, that's what I'm supposed to have, that's what world war 1 and 2 was supposed to be about, freedom right? But a back door approach by law is fine? That's the whole point of thie argument though, it's not weather you want the game or not, it's that you want the choice.
Like I said though it seems more and more everyday that the British citizen is more then happy to be told what to do rather then decide for themselves, including parents who think it's fine for there 13 year old to play these games. And the reason they think this is because of items like the Iraq war being everywhere, your child being exposed to real life death and violence on all media types, but you think that won't affect a child's mind? And a video game will? That's bull crap, the Iraq war hass been projected in glorified gory detail with no hint of a complaint and that's what will ultimatly scewer a childs mind, real life modern warfare, not a make believe video game.
My last comment goes out to shadowsblaze who stated their is no real life murder on television, well their is unless your a politician who likes the media shown peope getting blown up as it helps support your war?
Yup, like I said in my previous post, the BBFC is staffed by hypocrites. I'm not anti-censorship, just wish it wasn't controlled by a room full of fossils.
I've just read this thread and some of the posts shock me. Frankly some of you appear to be totally taken in by this governments obsessive way's of controlling what you can and can't do, what they can and can't play etc. Wake Up! Was it like this when I was growing up, no. We had freedom of choice and not a dictatorship government, and I bet the BBFC only banned it cause of the RFOM issue.
That is b******s. There is less material cut or banned now than there ever has been in this country. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a lover of censorship at all, and as much as I have no interest in playing the next game in this shallow, pile of crap series I would want the option to do so if I chose, but compared to a lot of other countries we're pretty lucky. Stop making s**t up just to give yourself a platform to argue from.
Yup, like I said in my previous post, the BBFC is staffed by hypocrites. I'm not anti-censorship, just wish it wasn't controlled by a room full of fossils.
They're hardly controlled by "a room full of fossils" if they granted release to every other game ever released in the UK, are they?
God, these pathetic idiotic responses are ridiculous.
That is b******s. There is less material cut or banned now than there ever has been in this country. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a lover of censorship at all, and as much as I have no interest in playing the next game in this shallow, pile of crap series I would want the option to do so if I chose, but compared to a lot of other countries we're pretty lucky. Stop making s**t up just to give yourself a platform to argue from.
Well you've just spoken b******s in your comment, on the one hand you don't support censorship, yet on the other hand you don't care if people have a choice to buy this game or not becuase you thought the first one was crap. So you don't care about cencorship until it affects something that YOU want to watch or play then? At any other time what they do is fine or you just don't care?
Let me guess what kind of person you are. I think you have been abused when you were a child else you wouldn't bring it up. Second you put it forward as if people under the 18 MUST play this game, So i guess you are over the 40's. And by the sound of it you really want the government to control people lives, so either you are communist or a politician.
The arguement I'm making (and if you read the post in the first place instead of ranting, you would realise) is that if such games are to be released, then the likes of Rockstar have a responsibility to explain and justify why such a level of violence is needed in the game. And the question remains why you're so determined to support Rockstar, when they seem so unwilling to stick up for themselves. Perhaps you should also really ask yourself why you seem so desperate to have this game released (and don't go giving this freedom of expression bulls**t as it doesn't wash).
I can't believe people still think banning one game will lead to us all being braindead drones who can't make decisions! Hilarious. The end of society is nigh.
And keep trotting out the old argument about the news being just as bad. It gets funnier everytime. You don't watch the news screaming "SHOW MORE BLOOD!" do you. Do you?
How about someone writes a game, set in Irag, where you play as an insurgent. You get to attack western soldiers and of course, the violence has to be as real as possible. You choose your weapons and methods. Fun, fun, fun! I hope that sounds sick to you. And when Rockstar try to release it, I hope the BBFC is around to stop it. Because society can't afford for freedom to mean you can imitate persecution of anyone.
what if they just released the game in uk as the renamed..."Manhunt 2irectors Cut"? Would they be allowed then? ...i guess we all have to make do with our wii party games then
Was never interested in the game but im sure Wii owners that are desperate for decent games were. A sad day for the video game industry really. Shame on Rockstar for making a serial killer sim. Now excuse me while I go and live out my fantasy of high jacking a car and running the hoes down. God love Rockstar for brainwashing me!
Firstly, Rockstar are MASTERS at manipulating the media outcry that accompany all their 'adult' games. ALL of you decrying this as examples of the 'nanny state' are, simply put, easily led non-thinking idiots.
I guarantee that there are two versions of the game. One which Rockstar knew with 100 percent certainty would NEVER get past the BBFC which is the one they gave them. And the 'real' version of the game which is the one that they knew was always going to be the final retail version, the version that they also now know with 100 percent certainty you will buy just so 'show the censors two fingers because no one tells you can and can't buy'. Guess what, Rockstar just told you what to buy and you'll fall for it.
This is not to say I don't like Rockstar games. The first two GTA games were just bad games but GTA III and San An are very very good if morally ambiguous. The Midnight Club games have their moments as do many others they've made. However, the only truly shocking thing about the original Manhunt was just how bad it was as a game.
As to those of you saying how fed up you are about the BBFC, you really don't understand what it is they actually do. You should read up on their history, why they are there in the first place. Check out their web-site, read what they have to say about classifications they've made in the past. You will not find a classification body in the world that considers all the aspects of a film/game/DVD with such care and without bias. It is very rare for them to refuse certification for anything. Having read the reason's why they refused the game an 18 all I can say is that the level of violence in the game must've have been so over the top I'm glad it's not going to be out in that form.
I'm not pro-censorship as a general rule but the current fad of 'Gore-Porn' I think is really getting out of hand. I work in a video and game shop and having seen things such as Saw III and Hostel as part of my job, I'm beginning to be of the opinion that anyone that actually enjoys watching people being tortured, fake or not, should be sectioned under the mental-health act! And by the sound of it this game comes under the Gore-Porn heading but the difference between this game and the Likes of Saw III is that while watching a film is a passive form of 'entertainment', in this 'game' YOU are the person carrying out the violence and torture and that, in my opinion and I suspect many others, crosses a line.
Look, Im all for censorship for under 18's (maybe even under 21's) but to tell a full grown person what they can or cannot do is wrong.
I cannot believe films like Hostel and Saw can be released, but when a similar game is released they say no.
If anything, a game is better, because if people get to (virtually) mame people they wont want to try it in real life, but if the see it in a film they might want to try it themselves.
on a good note, at least it should put a stop to Wii bashers saying its only for kids
I guarantee that there are two versions of the game. One which Rockstar knew with 100 percent certainty would NEVER get past the BBFC which is the one they gave them. And the 'real' version of the game which is the one that they knew was always going to be the final retail version, the version that they also now know with 100 percent certainty you will buy just so 'show the censors two fingers because no one tells you can and can't buy'. Guess what, Rockstar just told you what to buy and you'll fall for it.
Actually, it appears to be more the tone of the game they take exception to. The BBFC Spokesman did say quite plainly that the BBFC don't think it'd be possible to cut the game in such a way as to make it passable for certification, as was the case with Carmageddon back in 1997.
Who knows if i'm in minority on this but i actually found the first one to be quite disturbing.I stopped playing the game shortly into it because i just couldn't see the point.I kill things all the time in games but never do i thnk of myself as really killing people - i did in Manhunt and it felt wrong.
Firstly, Rockstar are MASTERS at manipulating the media outcry that accompany all their 'adult' games. ALL of you decrying this as examples of the 'nanny state' are, simply put, easily led non-thinking idiots.
I guarantee that there are two versions of the game. One which Rockstar knew with 100 percent certainty would NEVER get past the BBFC which is the one they gave them. And the 'real' version of the game which is the one that they knew was always going to be the final retail version, the version that they also now know with 100 percent certainty you will buy just so 'show the censors two fingers because no one tells you can and can't buy'. Guess what, Rockstar just told you what to buy and you'll fall for it.
This is not to say I don't like Rockstar games. The first two GTA games were just bad games but GTA III and San An are very very good if morally ambiguous. The Midnight Club games have their moments as do many others they've made. However, the only truly shocking thing about the original Manhunt was just how bad it was as a game.
As to those of you saying how fed up you are about the BBFC, you really don't understand what it is they actually do. You should read up on their history, why they are there in the first place. Check out their web-site, read what they have to say about classifications they've made in the past. You will not find a classification body in the world that considers all the aspects of a film/game/DVD with such care and without bias. It is very rare for them to refuse certification for anything. Having read the reason's why they refused the game an 18 all I can say is that the level of violence in the game must've have been so over the top I'm glad it's not going to be out in that form.
I'm not pro-censorship as a general rule but the current fad of 'Gore-Porn' I think is really getting out of hand. I work in a video and game shop and having seen things such as Saw III and Hostel as part of my job, I'm beginning to be of the opinion that anyone that actually enjoys watching people being tortured, fake or not, should be sectioned under the mental-health act! And by the sound of it this game comes under the Gore-Porn heading but the difference between this game and the Likes of Saw III is that while watching a film is a passive form of 'entertainment', in this 'game' YOU are the person carrying out the violence and torture and that, in my opinion and I suspect many others, crosses a line.
Why do you people keep reffering to Saw and Hostel?? It's so fake it's unreal compared to the origionals, like Texas Chainsaw Mascre and a stream of other cult horror and gore films, the types where they would use animal guts for effects. Films have been violent and bloody far longer then the video games biz has been.
Why do you people keep reffering to Saw and Hostel?? It's so fake it's unreal compared to the origionals, like Texas Chainsaw Mascre and a stream of other cult horror and gore films, the types where they would use animal guts for effects. Films have been violent and bloody far longer then the video games biz has been.
Just because Saw and Hostel are recent films, so if they can be made, so should this game.
Ive just watched a few trailers on Youtube, and it dont look that bad, the worst things on there were people being hung (didnt we see that in the first scene of Pirates of the caribbean - you know, a family Disny film) and someone having his spine ripped out - Mortal Kombat anyone
This is nothing new, they are only doing it to make an example to Rockstar
As has been said ad nauseam, this has nothing to do with choice or people's rights. This has to do with what is socially acceptable, given the interactive nature of gaming.
Simply having a game where you murder people in an atmosphere that is unrelentingly grim and realistic - with no other point at all - is something I would consider unwholesome.
Let's take a hypothetical game called Pet Torture. In this game you go around stealing pets and score points on how long you can prolong its suffering as you torture it to death. Now, there are several questions about this hypothetical game, here, each of them pertinent to Manhunt 2 (given BBFC's feedback). Prime among these is quite why one would play a game that is so repulsive; if someone gleans enjoyment from torturing pets or killing people for no reason than "thats the 'game'" then there is something seriously wrong, both morally and ethically. Now, lets take the same game, but this time you play the pet - escaping from the clutches of the torturer. Still not family entertainment, but you can see where the game's premise has changed drastically to a socially acceptable level.
Don't think this is pertinent? then look at Manhunt 2, and instead of a pet running away from the torturer you are an escaped "person" running away from the criminals. In this instance, self defense is priority and how that comes about is up to the player, rather than actively seeking elaborate ways of killing someone.
For some my point above will be too subtle (probably those that put lots of expletives in their posts, doubtless), but for many the difference is a crucial one. I would like to think that we strive for a gaming experience that is more than simply murdering people; I want depth, immersion, involvement, choice and a remit that offers the moral incentive to question my ethics.
In this light, Manhunt 2 is an insult to the industry, once again demonstrating gaming's immaturity, and a game I am glad is no longer for sale.
Firstly, Rockstar are MASTERS at manipulating the media outcry that accompany all their 'adult' games. ALL of you decrying this as examples of the 'nanny state' are, simply put, easily led non-thinking idiots.
I guarantee that there are two versions of the game. One which Rockstar knew with 100 percent certainty would NEVER get past the BBFC which is the one they gave them. And the 'real' version of the game which is the one that they knew was always going to be the final retail version, the version that they also now know with 100 percent certainty you will buy just so 'show the censors two fingers because no one tells you can and can't buy'. Guess what, Rockstar just told you what to buy and you'll fall for it.
This is not to say I don't like Rockstar games. The first two GTA games were just bad games but GTA III and San An are very very good if morally ambiguous. The Midnight Club games have their moments as do many others they've made. However, the only truly shocking thing about the original Manhunt was just how bad it was as a game.
As to those of you saying how fed up you are about the BBFC, you really don't understand what it is they actually do. You should read up on their history, why they are there in the first place. Check out their web-site, read what they have to say about classifications they've made in the past. You will not find a classification body in the world that considers all the aspects of a film/game/DVD with such care and without bias. It is very rare for them to refuse certification for anything. Having read the reason's why they refused the game an 18 all I can say is that the level of violence in the game must've have been so over the top I'm glad it's not going to be out in that form.
I'm not pro-censorship as a general rule but the current fad of 'Gore-Porn' I think is really getting out of hand. I work in a video and game shop and having seen things such as Saw III and Hostel as part of my job, I'm beginning to be of the opinion that anyone that actually enjoys watching people being tortured, fake or not, should be sectioned under the mental-health act! And by the sound of it this game comes under the Gore-Porn heading but the difference between this game and the Likes of Saw III is that while watching a film is a passive form of 'entertainment', in this 'game' YOU are the person carrying out the violence and torture and that, in my opinion and I suspect many others, crosses a line.
Total nutter
I thank you for your well thought out and superbly executed response to my support of the BBFC's decision in this matter. I'm confident that once you get through puberty you will become a trusted and valued asset to your schools debating society.
I think it's fair to say we've all played to our dark side once in a while in games. I think it's fair to say that most games give us a moral choice as to the path we follow (eg, Fable, KOTOR, Bioshock, Splinter Cell: Double Agent). And even if we did follow the dark path, the violence is usually either kept to a minimum or unrealistic and over-the-top in order to reinforce that this is fantasy. However, it seems that Manhunt does not give you that choice. You are forced to kill people in the most violent, graphic way possible. Now, if you Rockstar supporters don't find that disturbing (whether it's a game or not), then I really think you need professional help.
I for one, appreciate what the BBFC does for us. I was at a lecture, years ago for college, given by one of their employees (who was only about 30 by the way, hardly a fossil). He showed us some of the things he had to rate everyday and described others. Having to sit there and watch such things, on a regular basis, cannot be good for a balanced mind. I am glad that there are these people there to filter out the crap that crosses the line; which I personally am not inclined to see. I am not pleased by this decision on Manhunt 2, as I was looking forward to playing it on the Wii; mainly to see what Rockstar did with the motion controls, gore aside. However, the BBFC seemed to have a fair point and to be honest made the game sound a bit crap. We know that the extreme violence in the original, was there to fit in with the snuff film mechanic (and for the controversy), but I thought Manhunt as a game was about stealth. Perhaps if Rockstar had gave you more flexibility in strategy, maybe using the violence as a last resort within a situation, then it wouldn't have been banned.
All these people saying that the UK is turning into a nanny state, should just calm down a bit and look at what kinds of games passed through our censorship.
I like some violent films and am all for artistic licence but when the sole basis of a game is depraved violence and murder I just don't see the point.
Played the first game and it was disturbing, more than happy to see this won't get a UK release.
That is b******s. There is less material cut or banned now than there ever has been in this country. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a lover of censorship at all, and as much as I have no interest in playing the next game in this shallow, pile of crap series I would want the option to do so if I chose, but compared to a lot of other countries we're pretty lucky. Stop making s**t up just to give yourself a platform to argue from.
Well you've just spoken b******s in your comment, on the one hand you don't support censorship, yet on the other hand you don't care if people have a choice to buy this game or not becuase you thought the first one was crap. So you don't care about cencorship until it affects something that YOU want to watch or play then? At any other time what they do is fine or you just don't care?
You need to read before you post. I said even though I don't care about playing it I would want the option of playing it if I did care... which means I don't think games like this should be banned. Pay attention and don't put words in my mouth.
Heres an idea, don't let parents buy the games for their derranged kids! This way, people that are legally old enough to play the games can enjoy them for what they are, games, and we don't have to hear more of "manhunt made my child, thats too young to play the game anyway, go crazy and kill his best friend!" =O
Idiots. The whole freakin lot of them.
I think the point is that this game is too much for even an 18 rating.
Look, guys, fuck off. The BBFC listen to gamers and are approaching the whole videogames violence area sensibly. If they decide that Manhunt 2 is too 'bad' for release, then I agree with them.
Firstly, Rockstar are MASTERS at manipulating the media outcry that accompany all their 'adult' games. ALL of you decrying this as examples of the 'nanny state' are, simply put, easily led non-thinking idiots.
I guarantee that there are two versions of the game. One which Rockstar knew with 100 percent certainty would NEVER get past the BBFC which is the one they gave them. And the 'real' version of the game which is the one that they knew was always going to be the final retail version, the version that they also now know with 100 percent certainty you will buy just so 'show the censors two fingers because no one tells you can and can't buy'. Guess what, Rockstar just told you what to buy and you'll fall for it.
This is not to say I don't like Rockstar games. The first two GTA games were just bad games but GTA III and San An are very very good if morally ambiguous. The Midnight Club games have their moments as do many others they've made. However, the only truly shocking thing about the original Manhunt was just how bad it was as a game.
As to those of you saying how fed up you are about the BBFC, you really don't understand what it is they actually do. You should read up on their history, why they are there in the first place. Check out their web-site, read what they have to say about classifications they've made in the past. You will not find a classification body in the world that considers all the aspects of a film/game/DVD with such care and without bias. It is very rare for them to refuse certification for anything. Having read the reason's why they refused the game an 18 all I can say is that the level of violence in the game must've have been so over the top I'm glad it's not going to be out in that form.
I'm not pro-censorship as a general rule but the current fad of 'Gore-Porn' I think is really getting out of hand. I work in a video and game shop and having seen things such as Saw III and Hostel as part of my job, I'm beginning to be of the opinion that anyone that actually enjoys watching people being tortured, fake or not, should be sectioned under the mental-health act! And by the sound of it this game comes under the Gore-Porn heading but the difference between this game and the Likes of Saw III is that while watching a film is a passive form of 'entertainment', in this 'game' YOU are the person carrying out the violence and torture and that, in my opinion and I suspect many others, crosses a line.
Total nutter
I thank you for your well thought out and superbly executed response to my support of the BBFC's decision in this matter. I'm confident that once you get through puberty you will become a trusted and valued asset to your schools debating society.
I for one, appreciate what the BBFC does for us. I was at a lecture, years ago for college, given by one of their employees (who was only about 30 by the way, hardly a fossil). He showed us some of the things he had to rate everyday and described others. Having to sit there and watch such things, on a regular basis, cannot be good for a balanced mind. I am glad that there are these people there to filter out the crap that crosses the line; which I personally am not inclined to see. I am not pleased by this decision on Manhunt 2, as I was looking forward to playing it on the Wii; mainly to see what Rockstar did with the motion controls, gore aside. However, the BBFC seemed to have a fair point and to be honest made the game sound a bit crap. We know that the extreme violence in the original, was there to fit in with the snuff film mechanic (and for the controversy), but I thought Manhunt as a game was about stealth. Perhaps if Rockstar had gave you more flexibility in strategy, maybe using the violence as a last resort within a situation, then it wouldn't have been banned.
All these people saying that the UK is turning into a nanny state, should just calm down a bit and look at what kinds of games passed through our censorship.
As has been said ad nauseam, this has nothing to do with choice or people's rights. This has to do with what is socially acceptable, given the interactive nature of gaming.
Simply having a game where you murder people in an atmosphere that is unrelentingly grim and realistic - with no other point at all - is something I would consider unwholesome.
Let's take a hypothetical game called Pet Torture. In this game you go around stealing pets and score points on how long you can prolong its suffering as you torture it to death. Now, there are several questions about this hypothetical game, here, each of them pertinent to Manhunt 2 (given BBFC's feedback). Prime among these is quite why one would play a game that is so repulsive; if someone gleans enjoyment from torturing pets or killing people for no reason than "thats the 'game'" then there is something seriously wrong, both morally and ethically. Now, lets take the same game, but this time you play the pet - escaping from the clutches of the torturer. Still not family entertainment, but you can see where the game's premise has changed drastically to a socially acceptable level.
Don't think this is pertinent? then look at Manhunt 2, and instead of a pet running away from the torturer you are an escaped "person" running away from the criminals. In this instance, self defense is priority and how that comes about is up to the player, rather than actively seeking elaborate ways of killing someone.
For some my point above will be too subtle (probably those that put lots of expletives in their posts, doubtless), but for many the difference is a crucial one. I would like to think that we strive for a gaming experience that is more than simply murdering people; I want depth, immersion, involvement, choice and a remit that offers the moral incentive to question my ethics.
In this light, Manhunt 2 is an insult to the industry, once again demonstrating gaming's immaturity, and a game I am glad is no longer for sale.
Russell
Although you make some salient and interesting points on the whole there Russ. I still have to So, its OK to shoot nazi's in realistic WW2 games, it's OK to beat hookers with your baseball bat in GTA, your average action movie with X amount of people killed is OK, but Manhunt is, for some reason, not OK? The only thing that's unnacceptable to the public is that these people are in a position to be able to tell the public what they are and aren't allowed to buy. Absolutely disgraceful and even though I care little for the game itself I'll be protesting this strongly for both versions of the game. This banning of things should stop. Governments want us not to smoke, not to drink, not to play certain games, not to watch certain movies etc. Seems there is little freedom these days, the government knows what's best for us... the funny thing is that that kind of attention will only help sales as more people want what they can't have, and some people just want to see what the commotion is all about.
I'm generally very anti censorship but I think the BBFC posted a very specific reasoned explanation as to why the game is being banned. This is only the 2nd game the BBFC has banned, compare this to most other countries and you'll see that the UK is hardly the most enthusiastic country with the big red "Banned" stamp.
Manhunt 1 was crap, it was a stealth game that had a slow and cumbersome control feel. If it wasn't for the outcry and subsequent publicity the game would have stayed in the bottom end of the charts where it belonged (if I remember correctly it jumped from 80th to 8th when the story hit).
The BBFC comment that it was the fact that you have no option to play the game in the most sadistic way possible was one of the factors in banning it.
On the whole I think Rockstar are a great games company (and I'm drooling with anticipation over GTA4 the same as everyone else) but sometimes they do love to push the controversy envelope as much as possible. They do it to make money, the moral outrage in the tabloid press is part of their marketing strategy. They've been pushing the limits for ages and now they've finally crossed them.
It's just a shame that we'll be missing out on what sounds like a genuinely playable title that's a marked improvement on the first in the series. Maybe they'll go back to making great games that weren't afraid to target an adult audience and stop producing game concepts that are purely designed to court controversy.
=This banning of things should stop. Governments want us not to smoke, not to drink, not to play certain games, not to watch certain movies etc. Seems there is little freedom these days, the government knows what's best for us...
The Government have not banned this game, the BBFC have.
Furthermore, the BBFC aren't known for banning things. This is the second game ever to be refused classification, and the first game ever to be "beyond cutting".
For note, the first to game to be refused was Carmageddon in 1997; the humans were replaced with zombies, and it was then deemed to be certifiable, and given an 18 rating.
Well I could bang on for ages about how we as adults should have the choice to play this and how many main stream games incorporate acceptable violence, as long as its 2nd world war Nazis or cyber terrorists you are shooting arms and legs off, anyway I digress, perhaps some popular online stores could be your savior, I may be wrong.
A bit of info on Jersey.
Jersey is not part of the UK, nor the European Union, but is rather a separate possession of the Crown, comparable to the Isle of Man. Jersey belongs to the Common Travel Area.
=This banning of things should stop. Governments want us not to smoke, not to drink, not to play certain games, not to watch certain movies etc. Seems there is little freedom these days, the government knows what's best for us...
The Government have not banned this game, the BBFC have.
Furthermore, the BBFC aren't known for banning things. This is the second game ever to be refused classification, and the first game ever to be "beyond cutting".
For note, the first to game to be refused was Carmageddon in 1997; the humans were replaced with zombies, and it was then deemed to be certifiable, and given an 18 rating.
From reading on here the BBFC has to obide by UK Laws as to what is banned or not, I THINK as in could be wrong that they have the full backing of the UK Government too.
...So, its OK to shoot nazi's in realistic WW2 games, it's OK to beat hookers with your baseball bat in GTA, your average action movie with X amount of people killed is OK, but Manhunt is, for some reason, not OK?... The only thing that's unnacceptable to the public is that these people are in a position to be able to tell the public what they are and aren't allowed to buy. Absolutely disgraceful ...
Firstly in most WW2 games you are playing the part of an allies soldier in a war whose beginnings and causes are well documented. Uncomfortable though the idea is of having people trained to kill people, this did actually happen and continues to happen today in different theatres of war. While you may criticise the reasoning behind the current Iraq war, WW2, I'm sure you'll agree is a rather different matter. In the case of Manhunt 2 it is rather like playing an SS trooper in the gas chambers, if you are to use the analogy as correctly as can be applied to WW2. Of course, whether you should be made to feel like Rambo when playing these games is debatable, but if you are encouraged to protect your comrades, help allies and realise the destruction that is being wraught - that is something completely missing from Manhunt 2 (apparently) but is all too apparent in Company of Heroes, for example.
As for GTA, would you call this a unremittingly grim game with not fantastical relief at all? Do you have to hit that hooker, or do you have a choice? Do you have to run folk over, or can you avoid them if you want to? There is no political satire in the GTA Games (I must admit to not fully exploring these games)?
The fact that some folk are in a position to do something most are not is a fact of life, be it politicians, police or censors: They are there to do a job and if everyone had a say in what that job was nothing would get done - it would be anarchy.
=This banning of things should stop. Governments want us not to smoke, not to drink, not to play certain games, not to watch certain movies etc. Seems there is little freedom these days, the government knows what's best for us...
The Government have not banned this game, the BBFC have.
If you take a look into the history of the BBFC, you'll find that in 1984 Parliament passed the Video Recordings Act. The act stated that, subject to certain exemptions, video recordings offered for sale or hire commercially in the UK must be classified by an authority designated by the then Secretary of State. The President and Vice Presidents of the BBFC were so designated, and charged with applying the new test of 'suitability for viewing in the home'. I don't want to get into an argument of semantics but the government did indeed have a hand in the initial setup of the BBFC, who in turn have subsequently banned the release of this game.
You need to read before you post. I said even though I don't care about playing it I would want the option of playing it if I did care... which means I don't think games like this should be banned. Pay attention and don't put words in my mouth.
So you did, my bad
Perhaps you would like to expand on why I was speaking b******s though, I mean most horror/ gore films are pathetically fake these day's. I watched Saw 3 and thought it was s**te, yeah the brain drilling part was realistic and as for Hostel, very crap. Like I said most affects are too fake and when they start to use CGI in horrors well it's just a joke so I'm not surprised most films get passed.
As for the idea, why a film dipicting violent murder of innocent victims by rich clients is OK but murdering people in a game isn't you tell me. Regardless if you use the Wii controller, I can walk into an arcade and use a plastic machine gun to blow up some people as can any young person, Double standards on that part I think. So again I draw back to the idea that it's ok to watch real life people being killed in a video game war live on the television at tea time. But it's not ok to pretend to murder someone in what is anything bar photo realistic graphics with my numchuck or wiimote which the last time I checked don't look like guns or knifes.
Perhaps you would like to expand on why I was speaking b******s though
I already did in my first post to you. I was only refering to the section I quoted about you 'having more choice when growing up'. It's rubbish. the censors are far more liberal now than they've ever been.
I already did in my first post to you. I was only refering to the section I quoted about you 'having more choice when growing up'. It's rubbish. the censors are far more liberal now than they've ever been.
Ah, I was reffering to freedom with everything, the fact you were treated like a human being and were expected to think for yourself and act like one, not just relating to games and films. You have to admit some of the laws that we have now make everyone out to be dumb thick idiots incapable of thinking for themselves, it's just shocking the fact some people happily accept this!
I've not read all the replies, so may be missing some information, but I have to say I agree with the game being banned. I was never looking forward to playing this kind of game - I really don't see why, of all the games you can play on the PS2 (and Wii?), what value there is in playing a game where you have to kill other nutjobs in as violent a way as possible. You must be a pretty sick puppy to want to reinact stabbing a person in the eye, etc. Thousands of children in the UK would end up playing this game, even if it was released with the highest ranking and I really don't think that kind of thing should be encouraged.
I've just read this thread and some of the posts shock me. Frankly some of you appear to be totally taken in by this governments obsessive way's of controlling what you can and can't do, what they can and can't play etc. Wake Up! Was it like this when I was growing up, no. We had freedom of choice and not a dictatorship government, and I bet the BBFC only banned it cause of the RFOM issue.
You're crazy - the BBFC is an non-governmental organisation. They are not controlled by the government. If you believe the government is pulling their strings then I don't see any point arguing with you. If not, then you've just made a mistake.
Oh, and Optimusfrag, interesting thoughts in that post. I liked it
i can see why this was banned and think it is a good choice, i believe that violence in videogames is NOT wrong, however this game is purely about the mutilation of other people, if you get fun out of that you must be a bit twisted, in games like call of duty the violence is not so overblown and is related to a aim so that is alright, its not just killing for fun.
@ earlier comments about murders ppl say r caused by videogames, maybe u should be ashamed of yourself, how insensitive you r to the family of the ppl that died, i bet u would not take that opinion if 1 of ur family were murdered in a similar situation
You're crazy - the BBFC is an non-governmental organisation. They are not controlled by the government. If you believe the government is pulling their strings then I don't see any point arguing with you. If not, then you've just made a mistake.
Oh, and Optimusfrag, interesting thoughts in that post. I liked it
Hmm, you didn't read my above posts where I said they may or may not have the backing of the government, I fully admitted to not knowing so please don't make me out to of said it as fact when I didn't. Also a quick look on the BBFC's website states it's non-governmental department. It also states:
In 1984 Parliament passed the Video Recordings Act. This act stated that, subject to certain exemptions, video recordings offered for sale or hire commercially in the UK must be classified by an authority designated by the Secretary of State. The President and Vice Presidents of the BBFC were so designated, and charged with applying the new test of 'suitability for viewing in the home'. At this point the Board's title was changed to British Board of Film Classification to reflect the fact that classification plays a far larger part in the Board's work than censorship.
So whilst it is independant and non-governmental, it IS their to uphold the law regarding the matter of classification.
This is beyond f**king ridiculous now. Its a f**king computer game!! This is censorship and denies us our rights!! We should have the right to buy this game if we want and this f**king rating board should not be allowed to stop us.this is going to cause an uproar. Do they not realise this??
A cowardly respsonse from the BBFC. I'm sure had this product not carried the "Manhunt" name, it would have sailed through certification without any trouble at all. The decision not to pass this game was most certainly made to avoid the inevitable rabid reaction of the tabloid newspapers on the day of release. AWFUL, and WRONG.
I'm seriously disappointed. In fact, I'm not, because I'll just do whatever I can to import it from Europe or abroad.
Fair enough maybe "considering" to ban it on the Wii, as that is a bit much (not for me, as I'm quite capable of drawing the distinction between reality and video games).
If the rating boards don't want kids to be witness to it, make your ratings stricter, i.e, 21+ for mature games, or do more to enforce them. Many times in the past, I've been able to go into my local Game and buy mature games that I was clearly not old enough (by judgement of these "ratings" to be playing, and not a word was spoken to the staff about it. Even Jack Thompson has sent his kids into games outlets, with the same intentions and results.
Don't make those of us who simply enjoy an atmospheric game suffer (and yes, I did say atmospheric - the same really you watch, read, or play any "horror", "thriller", or "violent" form of media)
Excellent! This piece of crap shouldn't have been programmed anyway. Or: What's so funny to rip down the familyjewels in a videogame? Sicko snuff stuff - great for kids and so called adults... enuff said!
I bet my car and my wife (not my xbox or my wii) on the fact that this game will still see general release within 6 months. All the big bad censors are doing is giving this game some of the best free advertising that Rockstar could hope for. I wasn't going to get the game, but probably will now just to see what is so special.
Mary Whitehouse has a lot to answer for. i wasn't going to buy an more games for my PS2 as i have an XBOX 360, but the fact that this game has been banned i will now actively seek to purchase it. i don't like it when i ,a fully fledged adult, am told by some moronic a##hole what i can or can't purchase. i really couldn't give a sh## that some one was murder after the bloke played the first if he was that mentally distured then he would have do it anyway. why not ban religion as more people are murder over this than some f##king game.
Mary Whitehouse has a lot to answer for. i wasn't going to buy an more games for my PS2 as i have an XBOX 360, but the fact that this game has been banned i will now actively seek to purchase it. i don't like it when i ,a fully fledged adult, am told by some moronic a##hole what i can or can't purchase. i really couldn't give a sh## that some one was murder after the bloke played the first if he was that mentally distured then he would have do it anyway. why not ban religion as more people are murder over this than some f##king game.
Personally, I'm all for the BBFC and the IFCO's decision. While freedom of speech is all well and good, Manhunt definitely pushes and crosses the boundaries of good taste. There seems to be a growing interest in this sort of sickening depravity in modern society, where the staging of completely stomach-churning violent torture and killings are carried out for entertainment. Look at the Hostel and Saw movies.
Manhunt takes it to the next level by putting you in the role of the person killing. Sure, making the leap from killing someone in a videogame to committing a real-life murder is a progression that 99% of people aren't going to make. It can be argued that someone who is going to be influenced to commit murder or some similar atrocity by this game (or indeed, by any other game) is unstable enough that the game alone cannot be blamed. I agree with this. I am a believer that videogames in general do not promote violence. Games like this however, that depict their violence and killings in such a gratifying manner, deserve to be banned.
Same goes for the Saw and Hostel movies, and all these new generation of "gore'em up" films. I think they should all be banned. When it gets to this level of depravity, screw freedom of speech, or whatever people will argue. Many of you are arguing about censorship and rights and so on. Would you approve a videogame that promotes racism? Or discrimination against someone based on their religion? Or homophobia? (perhaps many of you would, based on some of the immature reactions I'm seeing here). This game has been banned to protect people, and if in doing so, it spares the life of even one person, then it's completely worth it.
FYI Game, gamestation, cdwow and amazon(.co.uk) have completely removed it from their websites. But play.com still has it for sale/pre-order and there's a healthy number for sale on eBay guaranteeing it on launch day.
It's strange how a game that actually has the intelligence to question how the player deals with violence (and its recreation through their avatar) is banned but it seems that it is OK to shoot someone from the Middle East, Russia, Germany etc. How many games have come out recently where the purpose is to go in all guns blazing with no moral questions asked?
Having played through the original Manhunt, I enjoyed the visceral thrill at first and it conveyed a convincing atmosphere of "kill or be killed". Although the premise was slightly dodgy, the viewpoint was the gamer as a voyeur and puppet of a higher power. Actions had reactions rather than a simple points tally and a medal at the end of each campaign. You weren't "brave" or a "hero", you were trapped and had to fight to find some sort of freedom.
Age, unfortunately, has no relation on maturity. 11 year old children will still do terrible things to other kids regardless of whether this game is released or not. To that effect, 18 year olds will do so as well (how old are the generals and world leaders and how old are the soldiers that have to follow their orders?). It takes a number of socio-psychological factors to create a violent individual - does a game provide a motive or a weapon?
We cannot live in a fantasy land where everything is made of cotton wool. Neither can we limit freedom of expression. We cannot promote violence for violence sake (or as "entertainment" but what are movies like Die Hard 4.0? King Lear is extremely violent but was a reflection of the times. It could be argued that Manhunt 2 is the same.
I wouldn't want a kid reading American Psycho but should they be playing Gears of War and similar games where the purpose of the violence is not as satire or to question your own values but to dismember and destroy?
Parents do have a duty to promote moral values (but should this be done by the state, commerce, education or religion?). Censorship is necessary when harm can be caused directly from its publication. Should we wait until a tragedy occurs before we wring our hands? Can we stop these things happening anyway?
As the other posts have shown, this debate will always ask difficult questions and I don't think we have the simple answers yet.
I dont belive the BBFC for doing this, i had no intention of buying the game anyway, but to say its un suitble for adults is taken the p**s, fair enough if they had asked rockstar to tone it down to get a 15 age rating, but its was 18 and over only, so basically their turning around and telling me a adult, a tax payer, a decent member of society what i can and cant watch?
Its not f**king on, i'll decide if it's too violent, not a bunch oof people out of touch, what next, their gonna ban hostel 2 from being released in this country? lets face it the differences between the 2 are slight.
Im against censership, if the people who made the game want to release it un cut, un edited, then it should have got an 18 rating, that simply, the only way it should have been cut if the developers wanted a 12 or a 15 rating, other than it should have been left to adults to decide.
Computer games as a whole are an "art" form. All this game is depicting is Hollywood's and the general public's fascination with violence, the same argument can be said about any slasher horror movie. When the sole purpose of the "bad Guy" is to hunt and stalk their victims before they strike, does this mean we ban ALL slasher films. No it doesn't as this would be disadvantageous to those who can tell the difference between reality and fantasy. so to ban this game under the believe that it could "possible" corrupt anybody who plays it, is WRONG. a ban on Video Nasties in the Eighties only heighten the believe that the films banned were so bad that anyone watching them would want to kill some one in a similar fashion, when in actual fact they were so ridiculous over the top no-one could believe they where banned. I have still to see some one wearing a hockey mask running around the streets murdering large breasted blonde haired women. people who are influenced by the media i.e. video games, films, books, et al. Have probably an underlying mental disability. Classification of computer games in Britain is purely voluntary, but without a classification no-one will stock the product in question. the classification of computer games started after the outcry of carmaggedon as you scored points for running over people, so to get an 18 certificate they changed the people to zombies and turn the blood from red to green. That was deemed fine as it was then in the realm of fantasy as zombie really don't exist. But it wasn't long before some one had brought out an unofficial update that turned the blood red again, but as this wasn't part of the ORIGINAL design there was nothing that the BBFC could do if people wanted to change the colour of the blood.
just be glad you all don't live in Germany as its illegal to OWN a copy of Gears of War as it has been totally banned over their, and yes it WAS government legislation that made that happen, as they had introduced a ban on ALL Arcade machines and almost all violent video games during the eighties as they thought that they would corrupt the youth in to another breed of physcokillers, this legislation is still inforce today.
I'm bloody glad they banned it, and i'm sure the parents of the lad you who got killed by a psycho copycat killer you played the first Manhunt will be pleased by this decision as well.
I'm bloody glad they banned it, and i'm sure the parents of the lad you who got killed by a psycho copycat killer you played the first Manhunt will be pleased by this decision as well.
Once again this person was mentally disturbed he would have found some other thing to put the blame on, the blokes lawyer probably only said this game made him do the murder in this fashion to try and get him off the hook...... and correct me if im wrong did the person who said that the manhunt game was responible have to make a PUBLIC apology as therewas NO evidence to support his accusation.
Classification of computer games in Britain is purely voluntary, but without a classification no-one will stock the product in question. the classification of computer games started after the outcry of carmaggedon as you scored points for running over people, so to get an 18 certificate they changed the people to zombies and turn the blood from red to green
Actually classification of computer games is not voluntary, and all games have to go through the BBFC since the elusive "video nasties" scare of 1984.
The PEGI/ELSPA system is the only voluntary rating system and is used as a guide only.
Carmaggedon was banned initially, but as we saw in 1997, it was released after some tweaking..... then low and behold, Carmaggeddon 2 comes out 2 years later not only with more advanced graphics, heightening the realism, but also all the things that caused the first game to be banned (red blood!)
What I'm saying is that in a year or 2, this will be questioned as to why it was (temporarily)banned, due to future developers pushing a little bit further.
This game will come out, in some guise, as too much money (several million pounds) has been spent paying the development and management team, not to mention the amount of money they will make from all this press. The amount of posts I've seen saying they weren't interested in this game but now want a look is amazing.
Hats off to Nintendo for wanting to bring this out on one of their consoles, when in '94 they wouldn't bring out Mortal Kombat cos of the violence. Nice to see that even they know audiences have grown up, as have the games.
Lastly from the sounds of things the game sounds quite good, and looking at the screenshots, it doesn't look that believable. So why all the fuss?
People always try to find something to blame for todays society, except themselves. After hundreds of years of oppression to the art medium, people need to start excepting responsibility for themselves and problems they cause.
In conclusion Rockstar are set to make a mint... again! And with a 92% review for manhunt 2, and gta4 on the way, it looks like they'll have earnt it.
Actually classification of computer games is not voluntary, and all games have to go through the BBFC since the elusive "video nasties" scare of 1984.
The PEGI/ELSPA system is the only voluntary rating system and is used as a guide only.
thanks for verifing that for me i knew that there was a voluntary system out there but couldn't remember what it was called. i thought it was the BBFC but i stand corrected.
No worries, I actually did a dissertation on censorship in the videogame industry for part of my animation degree at university.
This sort of thing is unfortunately a part of the industry. But when it calms down, the game will be on the shelves in no time!
At least Rockstar have got an agreement with Jack Thompson so he can't start another lawsuit.... I bet he is in agony dying to start legal proceedings and have his say about this
this is a supposed rant from jack thompson after learning of the apprent sucide of a fellow gamer...Earlier this month, gamer named Mitchell S. with the online screenname "Kuja105" who posts on a few online videogame forums (including GameFaqs.com and MetalGearSolid.org) committed suicide. On January 2 he posted a message in both forums detailing his intent to end his own life, citing overwhelming complications with school and finances. A very brief period of initial disbelief was followed by a barrage of replies from fellow forum members pleading that he not take his life, trying to talk him out of it.
For days, no word was heard from Mitchell. Fearing the worst, members and administration from metalgearsolid.org began searching for contact information, spending hours on the phone trying to get in touch with him. Finally on January 4, Ryan K., an administrator at metalgearsolid.org, got him on the phone and spent hours desperately trying to talk him out of it.
Sadly, Mitchell soon ended his own life by consuming antifreeze and painkillers.
Later, members from the site contacted Mitchell's family to find out the grave news. They reported it to their online community, and posted a tribute to their passed friend on the front page of metalgearsolid.org." Full Report Here.
Mr. Jack Thompson then sent in the following letter regarding the situation to MetalGearSolid.org, one of the forums frequented by Mitchell, where he was known well:
"Your "gamer friend" will find peace through the Lord, Jesus Christ, but sadly it's too late for that.
There is a void in every heart. You can fill it up with the things of God, or the things not of God. This unfortunate soul chose to fill it up with combat games. The playing of these video games is masturbatory activity, meaning senseless self-stimulation. If you gamers could use a dictionary you would know that that term is not necessarily a sexual one.
The real tragedy here extends beyond the life and death of this one fellow. There are literally millions of young people and young adults whose despair is deepend by turning to the things of this world and then finding them meaningless.
All of you gamers need to put down the controllers and get a life. The utter inanity of the vast majority of postings here shows how vapid "gaming" really is.
You are one of the cheerleaders for this wasting of time and the wasting of lives. Do you feel any remorse for having contributed to this "culture of death?" Of course not. Hey, let's all play MORE games, and ignore all the really productive things to do with our lives.
Let's pretend to be shocked that a gamer might descend into deeper depression, as his gamer "buds," knowing he was killing himself, couldn't figure out how to call 911 themselves for him. That would have involved leaving their computers I guess.
Sad. Sad for all of you."
Now does this not say that even NON-gaming religious fanatics are sick in the head.
I CANT f**king BELIVE THIS s**t WHO THE HELL ARE THE BBFC TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANT PLAY, I SUPPOSE ITS OK FOR PEOPLE TO SEE PEOPLE GET CUT UP IN HOSTEL 1 AND 2 AND OTHER SICK FLICKS(that i like by the way)BUT LETS BAN MANHUNT 2 OH YEAH THATS REALLY GONNA SAVE LIVES IS IT. BULLs**t!
Computer games are made the scapegoat for all of societies wrongs. Just like The Beatles were in the 60s when John Lennon said they were bigger than jesus, just like the so called 'video nasty', just like rap music etc etc. If someone cannot distinguish real life from a computer game then they're a bit puddled anyway. Manhunt 2 should be available to those who are old enough to play it. People act as if murder is a recent thing People have been killing one another for thousands of years what was the excuse then?
Computer games are made the scapegoat for all of societies wrongs. Just like The Beatles were in the 60 when John Lennon said they were bigger than jesus, just like the so called 'video nasty', just like rap music etc etc. If someone cannot distinguish real life from a computer game then they're a bit puddled anyway. Manhunt 2 should be available to those who are old enough to play it. People act as if murder is a recent thing People have been killing one another for thousands of years what was the excuse then?
it looks like it's still on for the states,apparently it's on to be the first ever AO(adults only) rated title (gta doesn't count as that was re-rated after the hot coffee incident).on a nintendo console!?
im really annoyed at this as the game was meant for adults so why not give it an adults only rating? i can understand why they dont want children playing it, but its the shops or parents fault giving it to them in the first place
BBFC said Manhunt 2 featured an "unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone" along with "sustained and cumulative casual sadism". He concluded that allowing the game to go on sale "would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors".
I agree with the ELSPA spokesperson though, who said to GI.biz:
"With any truly cultural industry, the creativity within that industry will always push the boundaries. It's what creative people do, and that's excellent. "But I think it's right that as a responsible industry we support the structures that are in place."
I think he is bang on the money with his comments there.... I am just interested to see if the BBFC were right in doing what they have done. Especially considering America are normally far more confrontational with adult aimed games, what with GTA Hot coffee and the like, as until now they haven't had any sort of age restriction system, and they are allowing it to be sold!
so basically their turning around and telling me a adult, a tax payer, a decent member of society what i can and cant watch?
Break out the child porn! They were willing participants!
This is beyond f**king ridiculous now. Its a f**king computer game!! This is censorship and denies us our rights!! We should have the right to buy this game if we want and this f**king rating board should not be allowed to stop us.this is going to cause an uproar. Do they not realise this??
How about a game where children are abused? How about a game where you enslave minorities? How about that game, Ethnic Cleansing, where you (if I recall correctly) had to exterminate minorities and finish off the holocaust, ending with killing Ariel Sharon. There Jews were depicted in practically the same manner as the Nazi party portrayed them, except with some modern updates. It sounds pretty funny, until you realise that people will play this in all seriousness.
"With any truly cultural industry, the creativity within that industry will always push the boundaries. It's what creative people do, and that's excellent. "But I think it's right that as a responsible industry we support the structures that are in place."
As I said, I think that this quote sums up perfectly what is going on... but its the game in question that makes me wonder what the hell it has done compared to the last one that warrants being banned!
This isn't child porn or xenophobia, its a survival game with a lot of violence.... bit strange as its not very realistic either and also has more of a story line apparently then the first.
Heres an idea, don't let parents buy the games for their derranged kids! This way, people that are legally old enough to play the games can enjoy them for what they are, games, and we don't have to hear more of "manhunt made my child, thats too young to play the game anyway, go crazy and kill his best friend!" =O
Idiots. The whole freakin lot of them.
i agree with you but i dont think i would buy it anyway even if i was old enough
I think he is bang on the money with his comments there.... I am just interested to see if the BBFC were right in doing what they have done. Especially considering America are normally far more confrontational with adult aimed games, what with GTA Hot coffee and the like, as until now they haven't had any sort of age restriction system, and they are allowing it to be sold!
The U.S. rating group only usually get worried if there's nudity involved, I mean you wouldn't want people think that there's such a thing as sex would you?
U.S. = Violence (Yay!) t**s (Boo!) Europe = Violence (Boo!) t**s (Yay!)
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when will people learn its not media that makes people violent, its people that make people violent. Vioence will always be around, always, im just wondering what they will blame in the future.
