Rockstar puts it down to nothing more than required extra development time - but then they also said less than three weeks ago that it was "absolutely on track" for October. So what's the real reason Grand Theft Auto IV was delayed to next year? Here are four possible conspiracy theories we'll gladly throw into the mix...
The PS3 version held it back Rockstar has had Xbox 360 development kits for a long time now, and released Rockstar Presents Table Tennis on the system last year - which, it's important to remember, uses the same RAGE engine that powers GTA IV. So in some form at least, GTA IV's engine is already up and running in a shippable form on Xbox 360.
Couple this with the fact that no-one has seen anything of the PS3 version of GTA IV, and that every demo we've been to has been with a 360 pad firmly in view, and alarm bells start to ring.
Rockstar blames "certain elements of development" for the delay, could these "certain elements" be the PS3 version? You can't say that it isn't a possibility.
Rockstar bit off more than it could chew Rockstar founder Sam Houser says it all: "The game is huge and is pushing the hardware platforms to their absolute limits." And "Certain elements of development proved to be more time-intensive than expected, especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms."
Was it a bit ambitious for the company to announce a release date - to the day - over a year and a half early, and before we'd even seen or heard the slightest detail about the game? It looks like developing and prepping GTA IV for a simultaneous release was trickier than Rockstar thought...
It was never going to make it In our recent sneak peak, we couldn't overlook the significant number of graphical glitches in the GTA IV demo. Sure it was early but shadows and lighting systems weren't quite up and running and there was a small bit of pop-up in the crowded Liberty City. Rockstar warned us that this was early code we were seeing, but we can't ignore the demo's graphical state now that the game's been delayed for possibly six entire months.
Manhunt 2's to blame Another thing we can't ignore is that little over a month ago Manhunt 2, one of the company's biggest releases, was denied release in the UK - something that despite Rockstar's continuous pushing of boundaries has never happened before. This must have caused a massive shake-up inside the company.
Is it far fetched to suggest that perhaps, looking at the BBFC's decision, Rockstar decided to scale back on some of the more explicit content in GTA IV? After all, we're not looking at blocky PS2 graphics anymore.
Or do Rockstar believe Manhunt 2 will be released and don't want to to go head-to-head with GTA IV?
Feel free to add your theories below. The truth is out there. Probably...
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Maybe at this stage, even with the game compressed, it can't fit on a normal dvd.
Or, maybe because of the amount of compression to get it to 9GB's the game runs too slow compared to the uncompressed game on blu-ray.
I thinks its more possible that is delayed because of the 360 version, and since R* have got alot of money from microsoft they arn't going to dely it for just the 360.
maybe i'm wrong, maybe the PS3 can't run the RAGE engine to well, maybe the lack of PS3 sales makes them want to push it back to allow for more PS3 owners. but you can't overlook the possibilitys of shortfalls for the 360.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Maybe at this stage, even with the game compressed, it can't fit on a normal dvd.
Maybe cos the PS3 is newer and you have to make tools to make games and the PS3's game developement tools are still being created as games are being made. As are the 360's, but thats been out longer so has a few more tools to use.
Fair point about storage on the 360, though. If the game is as big as R* are selling, then maybe compressing the game onto DVD has been more challenging than they thought?
The thing is, we're never really going to know though, are we?
It's going to make Sony the least happy, MS have got huge games lined up for this season - right before Christmas too.
I think the Manhunt 2 issue is the most interesting, with the current climate of gaming being very much under a harsh media spotlight - Resistance, RE5, Zak and Wiki etc it really isn't conducive to selling an adult title. Say what you want about no bad press but with R* at the forefront with a large percentage of their game containing adult material in relation to other companies, they really can't afford to suffer more losses.
There are also so many big names and anticipated titles coming out between Sep/Oct and Christmas, that stepping out of that mad scramble also makes sense. Especially if they come back with an improved game.
Personally I just don't think it was ready on either platform and the amount of actual game coverage speaks to that, we'd have seen much more of a game that was 'close' to release than we have. Whatever the reason I'm happy to wait as long as it improves the game.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
Seriously though. Any possibility that they're just fixing bugs? Beta testing a free-roaming game is a nightmare, because you have so many combinations of what you do and how you do it that testing every single one is almost impossible.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
Thats flawed. The game was weeks away, why would they hide it if it was better... I couldn't imagine people who only own a 360 would suddenly by a PS3 just for GTA4.
I don't doubt the 360 version has problems - the vid I downloaded looked extremely choppy for a game coming up in the Autumn.
Thinking about it, I would guess it was R* and Take Two biting off a hell of a lot.. makig life difficult for both the 360 and the PS3.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
You're an idiot.
The 360's problems have been well documented on this site.
Also if you read the news post properly it is a speculative news piece.......as he has stated the PS3 version has not been seen at all, hence speculation.
This fanboy bulls**t really has to stop, it's getting tiresome and defies all f**king logic.
I agree, that seems like an incredibly biased story?
Didn't you just say that you've never seen the PS3 version and only seen the 360 version, then go on to say the version you saw was incredibly glitchy? Doesn't that mean then that it's the 360 version that's glitchy? For all you know the PS3 version is running fine!
Also the 360 has had more resourse given to it recently "putting the PS3 development 2-3 weeks behind", now if the PS3 was the problem wouldn't you expect resourse to be diverted to that version not the other way around?
Maybe only previewing with a 360 controller is part of MS's $50M deal to hype their console, in the same way Assassin's Creed didn't have the 360 logo on their site at the start with! And for $50M I'm sure they wouldn't let R* delay it on their console because the PS3 is buggy.
The most compelling evidence in favour of the fault being down to the 360 however is in R*'s other recent announcements, namely that their next big franchise and LA Noire will be PS3 exclusive. Now that's hardly the actions of a company that's having trouble developing for the PS3 is it? Quite the opposite I would say.
In addition their new franchise is PS3 exclusive to fully exploit blu-ray space and the cell. That would therefore imply GTA IV is not fully utilising the PS3, which I suspect is being held back by the 360.
If I was a betting man I would guess that compression on the 360 without a HDD is proving troublesome, especially given their goal to have no load screens. If you think about it GTAIV has a day/night cycle and a lot of car models with damage physics, so not unlike a certain other game that a developer let slip couldn't fit on DVD *cough*PGR4*cough*
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that there is a lot of compelling evidence to point the finger of blame at the 360, perhaps more so than the evidence against the PS3, which makes this news story incredibly biased to the 360...
Do i sell my soul to become a fanboy or keep a level head and go with my thought's that R* are probably having problems with both formats. Bit off more than they can chew? More than likely.
My personal view is that the PS3 version held it back. Its the most logical choice. Rockstar have had no development experience with the PS3 before creating GTA4. The PS3 is supposed to be very difficult to develop for. The 360 version looked like it was at least 80% complete. We haven't seen anything at all from the PS3 version. They could hardly ship the game exclusive to 360 this year so they delayed both versions.
Face the music PS3 fanboys. Don't go blaming the 360 as anyone with half a brain could figure out which theory is most likley correct.
This is exactly why I will stick to ps3 and wii! 360 owners think they are always right but call everbody else fanboys for liking other consoles. What the hell is going on in the world when even journos can't be unbiased anymore! At least the snes and megadrive days were tongue in cheek fun - now it's just speculative crap!
The CVG staff are hardly biased. They have listed logical possibilities rather than complete fanboy statments such as 'cant fit it on a DVD9', 'PS3 version looks better but they choose to showcase an inferior version'... I mean WTF? The real reason is that the PS3 version has given them problems and is behind schedule meaning they decided to delay the whole project or the simple fact that they took on more than they could handle developing for 360 and PS3, two formats that are very different...
I honestly believe that rockstar has bit off more than they can chew. I think there is problems concerning both consoles, and whoever said that they won't show the ps3 version because its better is certainly trying to find a reason to justify their ps3 purchase. Right now sod all has been seen of the ps3 version because its not ready. Point blank. Ms are not exclusive with GTA just the added content. Everyone needs to calm down and let rockstar finish what they started.
Do i sell my soul to become a fanboy or keep a level head and go with my thought's that R* are probably having problems with both formats. Bit off more than they can chew? More than likely.
That's the likely story. Going by everything I've read they are really pushing the envelope in some areas of the game. It's got it's own internet for pete's sake. Some of the features have never been implemented before so give them a break.
I applaud the decision, regardless of what console you own there will be plenty to keep everyone occupied, there always is. Rockstar know that it will sell by the bucket when it comes out anyway so no one's worried. They've obviously just holding fire until everything's perfect....they know they cannot drop the ball with the first GTA of this generation.
this is a major f**k up for sony for christmas. who in there right mind is gonna buy a ps3 for £425 with mostly dire games? the games in there 'starter pack' are pathetic.
an xbox360 and halo3 for half the price is what most people will get for christmas.
sony must be s**tting their pants - they need a real price cut now or theyre out of the game
That is such a deluded fanboy post, I almost couldn't bring myself to acknowledge it!
For your information mate, the world doesn't revolve around Halo 3, which is mainly an obsession for the hardcore Xbots. There is more to gaming than FPS games you know?
Besides having one big hype-bloated release for Christmas is hardly fantastic you know, especially now they have lost their "perfect storm" of releases. If you look E3 this year the MS event basically revolved around Halo3 and GTAIV!
If anyone should be sh*tting their pants it should be MS who have basically lost the heart of their final big sales push before the PS3 big hitters like MGS4 and KillZone 2 come out to completely upstage it. Make no mistake Xmas 2007 was much more important to MS than it was to Sony, E3 should tell you that.
Sony will come into it's own next year, which is when you will really start to see the PS3 pull away, both in terms of graphics and sales. My guess is Xmas 2008 will belong to Sony, so Xmas 2007 was really important to MS. Not that I expect you to see that through you're Xbox coloured glasses!
In the mean time I'm sure us PS3 owners will console themselves (pun intended) with the likes of Heavenly Sword, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted, Haze, UT III, Little Big Planet, Home, Warhawk, PS EYE, and big multi-plats like Assassin's Creed to name but a handful off the top of my head. And don't even get me started on what we have to look forward to in 2008!
The CVG staff are hardly biased. They have listed logical possibilities rather than complete fanboy statments such as 'cant fit it on a DVD9', 'PS3 version looks better but they choose to showcase an inferior version'... I mean WTF? The real reason is that the PS3 version has given them problems and is behind schedule meaning they decided to delay the whole project or the simple fact that they took on more than they could handle developing for 360 and PS3, two formats that are very different...
No, I think you'll find that the 360 not having a definate hard-drive built in is also a good enough theory but I don't see CVG harping on about that one...
I think that Rockstar are confident that Manhunt 2 will get the go ahead and are prepping the game for a Christmas release so since it got severely delayed they decided to hold off GTA. Holding GTA back will also help with their share price for 2008. You know share prices mean alot to these companies, so they delay games for that purpose too.
Also did they not just announce Bully for Wii and Xbox 360, not sure if its this year or not, but that could be another reason so as to give the title room to breath as I dont think they would want to release a relative 'port' of the game too late as it could potentially get lost amongst next years releases.
Also I was thinking that because we have only seen Xbox 360 GTAIV, could Microsoft have a clause in the contract with Rockstar to say that when demoing the game to the media only the Xbox 360 version will be shown? It could be possible seeing as Microsoft paid shed loads of money for exclusives and would want the best bang for their buck....
But at the end of the day, I just think the game is not ready and that Rockstar thought just delay it so that the company can have a bigger and better year in 2008. They have some big titles for next year Midnight Club: LA, LA Noire come to mind....so to have all of those big releases for next year will raise the value of the company and let them put behind an underwhelming and disappointing 2007.
I am disappointed as I was doing some work for the release of the game which will obviously now be delayed...but hey, if it affords time to make it better, I'm all for it. The rest of this year is crowded enough already....I bet a few publishers are giving a quiet sigh of relief???
some ideas of the game are totally new, so give the developers a break. im p**sed off but rather happy at the same time, because this will give me more time to buy a PS3 and upgrade my PC to a 8800GTX card.
Maybe its just plain not ready. The PS3 version hasn't been seen, so we'll make the informed assumption that Xbox 360 is the lead platform... even then it simply may not be polished enough. Watch the trailers again, for the most part it's fairly smooth, but there are several instances of the game dropping frames like an earthquake at Specsavers.
Didn't Rockstar also say the PS3 version was only 2 weeks behind the 360 one? I know they also told CVG they were on schedule so they're perhaps not the most reliable chaps, but if it's true I'd guess that they simply need more time to refine the game, and that there is no single factor or platform to blame. I know a lot of what I've said was already suggested in the article. Just my €0.02.
I kinda wish R* would just give a reason to shut everyone up.
At the end of the day. Whatever of the consoles you own, your gonna have to wait to next year to play it now.
Just DONT go using this as a reason to take pot shots at the console you didnt buy. Its boring and pointless. Its sunny outside, go and get some sun, I'm going out RIGHT NOW!
The most compelling evidence in favour of the fault being down to the 360 however is in R*'s other recent announcements, namely that their next big franchise and LA Noire will be PS3 exclusive. Now that's hardly the actions of a company that's having trouble developing for the PS3 is it? Quite the opposite I would say.
Or maybe Sony have done an MS and paid R* a huge amount of money to secure an exclusive. It makes no sense to only release a game on one console (especially if that console is not exactly selling well) as these companies are in it to make money and to make money it is usually best to maximise the possible userbase.
I would be more inclined to think that the delay maybe either the fact that there is just a little more work and testing to be done or that they are having problems extracting the power from the Cell. Yes cell is more powerful but it was also not designed as a games chip (it's architecture is not game friendly at all! Only one of its cores is asynchronous and it isn't available to the programmers, the other 7 cores are all synchronous and I don't think even all of these are available to programmers either).
I know a couple of the ex DMA guys that work at Rockstar North and it`s the ps3 version that`s the problem.
Not saying that the ps3 version won`t be as good or anything like that, but it`s taking longer to get to the same stage. The tools and ps3 layout being the bottleneck. Having developed on the ps3 myself, I understand their pain.
EDIT
But still, it`s no biggie really.. I`m pretty sure by the middle (late ) next year we`ll all be playing what`s looking like the best GTA yet on BOTH platforms.
It's so obvious its the PS3 version thats the problem..the worse part is why not release the 360 version this year and PS3 the next? I mean its not like they have exclusive deal on timed releases on either platform, that way the hype for the game will still sell and maybe if the PS3 is even better ala PS2-Xbox GTA3 then alot of people who own both consoles will buy that version as well...just a damn shame they make 360 owners suffer the most.
i think the real reason for its delay is they're still working on the Wii version. let's hope it isn't banned like manhunt2, a murder simulation game! if it's ever released i'm gonna kill all you fanboys with my motion sensor remote weapons. lol
he says if the ps3 version wasnt ready, Rockstar wouldnt have minded the drop in sales from small install base. Instead they would have got revenue from 360 version]
i was actually expecting u cvg ppl would want to blame the ps3 AGAIN!! WTF!!! get a life u jerks, rockstar has had alot more development experience with the Playstation family of consoles than crapbox! hell, if there is anything that MAY be limiting the development, it can be the xbox's limited DVD size. u cvg journos are so damn pathetic!!
he says if the ps3 version wasnt ready, Rockstar wouldnt have minded the drop in sales from small install base. Instead they would have got revenue from 360 version]
UKRebellion.com blame the 360 version also
UK Rebellion is a s**t site at the best of times, you only have to look at the posts below spouting garbage to know its all probably made up to get people like you linking their crap site around the internet.
You know whats really funny about this whole situation? WORLD WAR FANBOY....for example "t**t one" blah blah its all Sonys Fault....then t**t two responds by saying your a fanboy shut up I hate fanboys blah blah, then in the next sentence gos on to say its not sonys fault its MS fault...MS is crap sony is best.....GROW UP RETARDS YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE......I love GTA but bottom line is ITS A GAME....it dosnt matter what system you own if your a ps3 owner then good for you...if your an xbox owner then well done....if you own a Wii then GUTTED suckers...whoops Ive done it now havnt I?
very true. i will be getting a 360 and halo3 now my ps3 is as useful as a solar panel in scotland.
this will hurt sony unbelievable come christmas. make or break type s**t.
Do you constantly talk s**te? If you already have a 360 then why are you bothered about ps3 not having it this xmas? That solar panel has more chance of falling on my head than your (alleged) ps3!
maybe it just has bugs in it hence the delay. thats what most delays are for, why blame any platform as they could be released separately as the software is completely separate code branches.
to all the dvd9 bashers, i'm sure they designed with this format in mind. the whole process will be planned from start to finish and they knew all the limitations from the start. if they didn't then they are stupid.
very true. i will be getting a 360 and halo3 now my ps3 is as useful as a solar panel in scotland.
this will hurt sony unbelievable come christmas. make or break type s**t.
Do you constantly talk s**te? If you already have a 360 then why are you bothered about ps3 not having it this xmas? That solar panel has more chance of falling on my head than your (alleged) ps3!
u talking about spaz? i said i HAD a 360, no more. why am i bothered about ps3 not having GTA this year?? everyone is bothered about it - cause theres f**k all else to play on ps3. so i will just buy another 360 and halo 3 cause i would be buying a 360 for PGR4 anyway. theres no other big game this christmas
Woah, if you read your own post it clearly states MY ps3. Get it right next time dickwipe.
very true. i will be getting a 360 and halo3 now my ps3 is as useful as a solar panel in scotland.
this will hurt sony unbelievable come christmas. make or break type s**t.
Do you constantly talk s**te? If you already have a 360 then why are you bothered about ps3 not having it this xmas? That solar panel has more chance of falling on my head than your (alleged) ps3!
u talking about spaz? i said i HAD a 360, no more. why am i bothered about ps3 not having GTA this year?? everyone is bothered about it - cause theres f**k all else to play on ps3. so i will just buy another 360 and halo 3 cause i would be buying a 360 for PGR4 anyway. theres no other big game this christmas
Woah, if you read your own post it clearly states MY ps3. Get it right next time dickwipe.
Why so hostile?
He HAD a 360. If I remember rightly, he chopped it in for his PS3. Now seems to be regretting his decision.
Looks like YOU'RE the one that mis-interpreted his initial post, and have just gone off on one.
I cant see the first reason listed as being true, if anything MS would have been quite happy for the game to come out on 360 this xmas, leaving rockstar to fix the PS3 version, it wouldnt have harmed MS, on some notes it might be true, nothing has been seen at all of the PS3 version, heck even the version sony were showed of the game was in fact the 360 one.
But with the huge payment by ms to rockstar, then i doubt this delay is to fix the PS3 version upto the standard of the 360 one.
The second one, could be more true, the development team making it, could simply have chewed off more than they can handle with the pushing each platform to the limit vibe coming off rockstar.
The game was finished, but it handle and played like a smelly turd, so its going in for a good 6 months of play testing to get the game up to speed either that or the bugs were making 360's go into RROD mode, and ms asked for the code to be fixed, so the game dosnt break 360's.
again not to sure on this one, if the game was finished, then surely rockstar would be releasing it on time, even with bugs and all, bugs can be fixed with patches from both download services.
and im sure it wouldnt have killed any more 360's either, now that all being sold are 65nm ones.
The 4 reason listed is more than likey to be the key, it could be rockstar cant afford another manhunt 2 type ban, so its been taken back and tonned down quite abit, afterall the violence in early previews of the game, appeared to be more real, less cartonny of the past gta games.
take two shareholders would have killed managment if this game was banned from sale and the company would have went bust, thats for sure.
The reasons listed above are all a possiability, but here are some more....
They want to include a new character in the game a one john smeatton, he works at the airport, and he batters anything that trys to blow itself up around him, after all the developers are scottish, why not include a scots hero in the game?
they didnt want to go up against halo3, bioshock, cod4, mass effect, on the 360, so its getting held back to increase sales on the biggest format its coming out on?
Sony have asked for it too be held back to make sure its out on a double wammy for them along side MGS4?
actually rockstar said a while back that they were havin trouble fittin all the content on a 360 disc and that it was harder than ps3s bluray disc so it could be the 360, after all blue dragons on 3 discs and gta4 is probs much bigger
very true. i will be getting a 360 and halo3 now my ps3 is as useful as a solar panel in scotland.
this will hurt sony unbelievable come christmas. make or break type s**t.
Do you constantly talk s**te? If you already have a 360 then why are you bothered about ps3 not having it this xmas? That solar panel has more chance of falling on my head than your (alleged) ps3!
u talking about spaz? i said i HAD a 360, no more. why am i bothered about ps3 not having GTA this year?? everyone is bothered about it - cause theres f**k all else to play on ps3. so i will just buy another 360 and halo 3 cause i would be buying a 360 for PGR4 anyway. theres no other big game this christmas
Woah, if you read your own post it clearly states MY ps3. Get it right next time dickwipe.
Why so hostile?
He HAD a 360. If I remember rightly, he chopped it in for his PS3. Now seems to be regretting his decision.
Looks like YOU'RE the one that mis-interpreted his initial post, and have just gone off on one.
Play nicely, children!
haha. spot on
If that is the case then just take the sodding thing back and get another 360 so we can stop hearing your moany hole.
Regardless of which version of GTA IV 'may' have caused the delay, the argument that they would release the other one early to backup your opinion does not stick.
R* obviously have good business relations with both MS and Sony and to release THE major title of the year on one system before the other would seriously harm one of those.
That said, I think R* decided both versions probably need more polish. There's a massive amount of hype they need to live up to!
Personally I'm glad its been put back as I was wondering how I was gonna afford £400-500 for all the games I wanted this Xmas.
Having all three next-gen consoles I'm in a position not to be a fanboy but a true gamer starting from the age of four years old, with my Atari 2600. (25 years of gaming).
Something from Rockstars original statement springs out at me though, making it sound as if nither console is to blame
"Rockstar founder Sam Houser added, "The game is huge and is pushing the hardware platforms to their absolute limits. The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.
It doesn't matter what console you have, as each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Their own 1st party titles, exclusive to its own system. This has always been the case SNES Vs Megadrive Vs Amiga/ST, Mario Vs Sonic etc.. each console is very different to code for, tools have to be made and storage space to consider as well as install base to take into consideration and competition from other titles, if its a Q2 2008 release I welcome it, as summers are always a boring time for games, at least I have this and Resi 5 to look forward to now."
My current outlook on my consoles is this though.. My Wii has gathered dust since I completed Zelda through lack of releases, my PS3 is in the same position as my Wii. I'm still playing my 360 but only socially and I'm still bored with it, as every other game seems to be an FPS at present so roll on Xmas and we can all be distracted from our Fanboy'ish behaviour and forum posts and concentrate playing on those big hitters we all want on our own consoles.
Personally I'm glad its been put back as I was wondering how I was gonna afford £400-500 for all the games I wanted this Xmas.
Having all three next-gen consoles I'm in a position not to be a fanboy but a true gamer starting from the age of four years old, with my Atari 2600. (25 years of gaming).
Something from Rockstars original statement springs out at me though, making it sound as if nither console is to blame
"Rockstar founder Sam Houser added, "The game is huge and is pushing the hardware platforms to their absolute limits. The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.
It doesn't matter what console you have, as each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Their own 1st party titles, exclusive to its own system. This has always been the case SNES Vs Megadrive Vs Amiga/ST, Mario Vs Sonic etc.. each console is very different to code for, tools have to be made and storage space to consider as well as install base to take into consideration and competition from other titles, if its a Q2 2008 release I welcome it, as summers are always a boring time for games, at least I have this and Resi 5 to look forward to now."
My current outlook on my consoles is this though.. My Wii has gathered dust since I completed Zelda through lack of releases, my PS3 is in the same position as my Wii. I'm still playing my 360 but only socially and I'm still bored with it, as every other game seems to be an FPS at present so roll on Xmas and we can all be distracted from our Fanboy'ish behaviour and forum posts and concentrate playing on those big hitters we all want on our own consoles.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Maybe at this stage, even with the game compressed, it can't fit on a normal dvd.
Maybe cos the PS3 is newer and you have to make tools to make games and the PS3's game developement tools are still being created as games are being made. As are the 360's, but thats been out longer so has a few more tools to use.
Fair point about storage on the 360, though. If the game is as big as R* are selling, then maybe compressing the game onto DVD has been more challenging than they thought?
The thing is, we're never really going to know though, are we?
It's going to make Sony the least happy, MS have got huge games lined up for this season - right before Christmas too.
If they're short a few "PS3-tools" they should come here, there's plenty of 'em on these threads.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
holy shi@ your are the first one to talk. blah blah blah why cant you blame the 360 why does everyone assume its the ps3's Fault. THE BIGGEST "FANBOY" HERE IS YOU. WHO CARES WHOS FAULT IT IS. WHY DO PEOPLE COME IN THESE FORUMS AND ALWAYS WRITE THE STUPIDEST CRAP ABOUT 360 SUCKS PS3 SUCKS. DAMN SHUT UP. JUST GET A JOB AND GO BUY BOTH. ASSHOLE!!!
Personally I'm glad its been put back as I was wondering how I was gonna afford £400-500 for all the games I wanted this Xmas.
Having all three next-gen consoles I'm in a position not to be a fanboy but a true gamer starting from the age of four years old, with my Atari 2600. (25 years of gaming).
Something from Rockstars original statement springs out at me though, making it sound as if nither console is to blame
"Rockstar founder Sam Houser added, "The game is huge and is pushing the hardware platforms to their absolute limits. The top engineers from Sony and Microsoft are working closely with the team in Edinburgh right now, helping us to fully leverage the power of both platforms.
It doesn't matter what console you have, as each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Their own 1st party titles, exclusive to its own system. This has always been the case SNES Vs Megadrive Vs Amiga/ST, Mario Vs Sonic etc.. each console is very different to code for, tools have to be made and storage space to consider as well as install base to take into consideration and competition from other titles, if its a Q2 2008 release I welcome it, as summers are always a boring time for games, at least I have this and Resi 5 to look forward to now."
My current outlook on my consoles is this though.. My Wii has gathered dust since I completed Zelda through lack of releases, my PS3 is in the same position as my Wii. I'm still playing my 360 but only socially and I'm still bored with it, as every other game seems to be an FPS at present so roll on Xmas and we can all be distracted from our Fanboy'ish behaviour and forum posts and concentrate playing on those big hitters we all want on our own consoles.
THANK YOU ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO POST ON HERE WITH SOME COMMON SENSE. GO GET A JOB andy3050. you shmuck
Once again a bunch of morons who have no inside knowledge show up and proclaim that it's the PS3 version holding it back. If I remember rightly Peter Moore showed up a while back with a GTA IV tattoo harping on about how MS had 'secured' a simultanious release. No doubt they paid Rockstar to secure that privilege yet there has been no talk from Sony of the same sort of deal. Now if the 360 version was going to be finished in time for christmas don't you think they would be happy to launch it before Sony? It could be that it's actually the 360 version holding them back... no matter what the fanboys think.
The most likely explaination however, is that both versions still need a lot of work.
Agreed I believe that its likely both consoles that are to blame as per a previous statement made by Rockstar.
"To be honest with you we haven't solved all those riddles yet." The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box**, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges" and that "both have their own particular pleasures and pains".
**Refering to the storage limitations
Also I cound be wrong in saying this but that $50 Million deal that someone mentioned about release was only for Microsoft to secure exclusive episonic content, though dates for these would now have changed also (see below), so has nothing to do with release. Its likely Sony would have made its own deal on content also by now.
"The first 25 million is for the first episodic content package that 's supposed to go out and that is in March of '08," Take Two CFO Laine Goldstein is reported to have said. "That's why it moved into current because it's in the next 12 months. The second 25 will be for the second episodic, the episode, and that will be later in fiscal '08."
I would suspect that the real reason is a combination of a number of issues. I don't doubt that Rockstar have had challenges with both the 360 and PS3 versions for different reasons, a game that complex is never going to be simple. Both consoles have a lot riding on GTA IV it's the first real blockbuster on the PS3 and argueably the biggest game so far for the 360 (argueably means you argue whether Halo 3 or Gears of War are bigger, but given that GTA is a non-360 exclusive franchise it's certainly a very big test for the format). For these reasons Rockstar, Microsoft and Sony all need GTA IV to be a top quality product and a rush release to met a deadline is going to harm all three (okay Sony won't mind if the 360 is knacked and vice versa but Rockstar will).
I suspect that the Manhunt 2 fiasco (as well as the Hot Coffee mod) has had an effect too. Rockstar needs the game to get past the censors and Rockstar are number one on their radar. I would suspect that every part of the game is being closely reviewed to make sure that it will get a certificate and this is also contributing to the delay.
Overall I don't think that the delay hurts MS or Sony too much. MS have Halo 3 to dominate their Autumn schedule and by next Spring SONY should have sold quite a few more Playstation 3 (riding on the MSG4 boom (assuming that doesn't get delayed)). Rockstar, however will feel the pinch more with both Manhunt and GTA IV delayed, maybe that explains the Wii and 360 ports of Canis Canem Edit.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
holy shi@ your are the first one to talk. blah blah blah why cant you blame the 360 why does everyone assume its the ps3's Fault. THE BIGGEST "FANBOY" HERE IS YOU. WHO CARES WHOS FAULT IT IS. WHY DO PEOPLE COME IN THESE FORUMS AND ALWAYS WRITE THE STUPIDEST CRAP ABOUT 360 SUCKS PS3 SUCKS. DAMN SHUT UP. JUST GET A JOB AND GO BUY BOTH. ASSHOLE!!!
Right, ok, i do realise that my posts have appeared to be very fanboyish, for that i do apologise, i would have apologised earlier but i was stuck in work till 9pm.
I would like to announce that i am the proud owner of both consoles. i've had a 360 since launch and a PS3 for about a month now.
I'm defending the PS3 because there doesn't seem to be a strong following, and evryone points the blaim at the console when somthing goes wrong with a multiplatform game. Also I'm now getting to the point where i'm starting to question why i bought the machine so early when theres clearly a drought of games at the moment.
I love both my consoles, but i don't like to see one fail, i want my £425 purchase to be justified.
I've read on this board so far alot of people slating others who try to say they arn't a fanboy so i'm going to try to proove myself with these 2 pictures.
My Consoles
My games
Again i apologise for my earlier fanboyish comments, i didn't mean for them to sound fanboyish. I just wanted to bring to light any problems that could occure on the 360 version, which CVG choose to overlook as a possibility.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
Never have i heard of a company showing the worst version of its product thats just bad business its more likely to be either the ps3 slowing things down (if thats not the case r* show us some footage from a ps3) or the manhunt 2 problems which if i was r* i think i would like things to settle before releasing another controversial game
I agree, that seems like an incredibly biased story?
Didn't you just say that you've never seen the PS3 version and only seen the 360 version, then go on to say the version you saw was incredibly glitchy? Doesn't that mean then that it's the 360 version that's glitchy? For all you know the PS3 version is running fine!
Also the 360 has had more resourse given to it recently "putting the PS3 development 2-3 weeks behind", now if the PS3 was the problem wouldn't you expect resourse to be diverted to that version not the other way around?
Maybe only previewing with a 360 controller is part of MS's $50M deal to hype their console, in the same way Assassin's Creed didn't have the 360 logo on their site at the start with! And for $50M I'm sure they wouldn't let R* delay it on their console because the PS3 is buggy.
The most compelling evidence in favour of the fault being down to the 360 however is in R*'s other recent announcements, namely that their next big franchise and LA Noire will be PS3 exclusive. Now that's hardly the actions of a company that's having trouble developing for the PS3 is it? Quite the opposite I would say.
In addition their new franchise is PS3 exclusive to fully exploit blu-ray space and the cell. That would therefore imply GTA IV is not fully utilising the PS3, which I suspect is being held back by the 360.
If I was a betting man I would guess that compression on the 360 without a HDD is proving troublesome, especially given their goal to have no load screens. If you think about it GTAIV has a day/night cycle and a lot of car models with damage physics, so not unlike a certain other game that a developer let slip couldn't fit on DVD *cough*PGR4*cough*
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that there is a lot of compelling evidence to point the finger of blame at the 360, perhaps more so than the evidence against the PS3, which makes this news story incredibly biased to the 360...
The reason PGR4 could not store day and night versions of tracks, is because all the lighting is pre-baked. This means all the shadows are prerendered and laid like a texture over the models they affect. They will not update/alter becasue the light source never changes. GTA on the other hand would have realtime lighting and shadowing, which means the shadows are all calculated as they appear on screen, and display depending on where the constantly changing light sources are coming from. This means that the shadow/lighting system is all hard coded into the game engine, which takes far less room (text based coding files) then all the multiple textures (Picture files) would take up on the disk!
As for multi-format games. The majority of bugs appear across platforms, as it is essentially the same engine and code. Obviously there are alot of bugs that occur indiviually on each system, but generally all the assets are the same! SO if the 360 version shown was quite buggy, it is amost certain that the PS3 one is the same, if not slightly more so as has been said, the RAGE engine has been up and running on the 360 since table tennis came out. ALthough the alterations on that would be enourmous to go from the enclosed environments of the table tennis arenas.... to Liberty City!
I doubt its the Manhunt 2 idea, as although ROckstar NOrth oversaw development, it was ROckstar Leeds developed it. In the same way that R* Leeds developed the PSP GTA's, and R* north oversaw development of them. Manhunt and GTA are very different games, and although some aspects of the origianl manhunt went into GTA:SA, such as shadows and stealth kills. I don't think GTA4 would have many of Manhunt2's ideas, as the 2 games have very different tones.
Alot of the "blame" can probably be from Take 2, who obviously think, like Eidos and numerous other publishers, that a same day multiplatform release is far more profitable for them then losing profits on the version that comes second.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
so, have you seen the PS3 version? I doubt it, so why are you making a wild presumption that the PS3 version will look better? bloody fanboys.
Why are you so quick to put somthing about PS3 holding it back without saying anything about the 360?
Because no one has seen it...
That doesnt mean you can't ignor the other consoles possible problems, seems a bit faboyish tbh.
And as to saying no ones seen the PS3 version, that doesn't mean it doesn't play as well.
thay probably show the 360 version because the PS3 version might look slghty better, the colours might be more vibrant on PS3, the visuals might beshrper, it coud hve betterdraw distance.
you might think "then they should show the PS3 version", but if they do that then when peple buy 360 they would colain about it not looking as good as what they saw in demos/videos/screenshots. its better to show the less visually stuning version, then people who buy the better version won't complain. its ll about marketing without complaints.
but, thats if there are differences between the 2 versions.
so, have you seen the PS3 version? I doubt it, so why are you making a wild presumption that the PS3 version will look better? bloody fanboys.
i'm not a fanboy, i explained a few posts up, you should read all posts before posting your own
Hello britain im going to get straight to the point im sick of all these bastard delays its not gta4 all of the best games for ps3 are being pushed back why?we dont know because the 360 customers can play colin mc rae dirt from june we have until september to wait and have to pay an xtra tenner for the privilege !!! its total bs!!! lve been a sony disiple since i can remember ive never been so p**sed before with them we need new games no s**te movie tie in games we cost 50 quid a pop hurry sony your loyal customers are waiting
Found this today...don't know if it will do more than stir the broth.
Michael Patcher has been wrong about the majority of his recent 'predictions'. I don't understand why sites keep reporting on his baseless guesswork, he's no better or more 'in the know' than anybody else on any other message board.
Found this today...don't know if it will do more than stir the broth.
Michael Patcher has been wrong about the majority of his recent 'predictions'. I don't understand why sites keep reporting on his baseless guesswork, he's no better or more 'in the know' than anybody else on any other message board.
Fair enough, where can I get a job as an analyst? Sounds like fun.
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) next year we`ll all be playing what`s looking like the best GTA yet on BOTH platforms.
