Half-Life 2: Episode Three's release could mark the end of Valve Software's foray into episodic gaming, the developer explaining it'll be at a development crossroads once the finale is out in the wild.
"I think what we really want to do is have a couple of examples out there - Episode One, and how long it was to play and how long it took to develop, Episode Two, Portal and TF2 and then the third part of the trilogy; and then sit down with the community and say, 'OK, so what do you want?'", Valve's Gabe Newell told CVG in an interview set to materialise on these pages soon.
The benefits of episodic releases have included the ability to ship more technology to customers faster than if Valve were still waiting to ship another Half-Life 2-level monolithic project, Newell said. But once Episode Three is out "we just want to sit down with three examples in front of us and talk it over with gamers to find out what they would like us to do next".
"'Do you want us to do more episodes? Do you want us to really tighten down the time frames and look at the scope of what we're doing so that that's possible, for us to go back to the large monolithic projects?'"
Newell went on to explain that he'd also like to spend time with Sam & Max developer Telltale Games to share experiences with the episodic approach, along with Blizzard whose updates for WoW have been like "episodes in an MMO".
I think the question they should be asking themselves is "Why is our episodic content not actually working?"
We've now had a load of delays both with Ep1 and now Ep2 as well, so their original idea of 6 monthly updates turned out to be crap.
The fact that they're now using the very accomplished Source engine means there's no reason for extended development time - all of the tools are there and only need occasional modifications. So it's not like it'd be another 6 years between HL2 and HL3 anyway.
I'd prefer to wait 18 months and have another 30 hour story to play through than wait half that (when you include the inevitable delays) for a quarter of the content.
It takes them 18 months to bang out each episode, that was the timescale for developing full games not so long ago...perhaps they need to hire some more staff.
I was just about to say, but Valve themselves beat me to it, that they need to talk to Telltale Games. Telltale managed to deliver six high-quality, very polished Sam & Max episodes totally on schedule. Some of them were even done early in fact, with myself as a subscriber receiving emails sometimes the week before an episode was due to release. I don't see what benefit there is in talking to Blizzard though, they usually only release minor tweaks and bug fixes as far as I know, which is a big difference to releasing a new 6-8 hour game every few months. Valve can already have my vote on their development future, even before Episode 3 comes out (which is probably many years from now). My vote is for them to leave Episodic Gaming alone, because they can't handle it. In the time it's taken them to put out Episode 1 and develop Episode 2, we could be on Half-Life 3 by now.
Oh and Valve... Team Fortress 2 is crap and I'm hugely disappointed in you. Graphically it's fantastic but it's the exact same game as TFC was 8 years ago, and TFC hasn't aged well at all. It's incredibly boring to play, and no amount of cell shading can hide that fact. Portal and Episode 2 better be awesome because the Orange Box seems like a huge waste of money right now, seeing as how you forced me to buy two games in the bundle that I already owned.
They could have released ep 1 and 2 within a short period of time, instead its taken well over 2 years for it to happen, thats time, they could have been working on half-life 3.
By its nature episode can work, but like tv people arnt prepared to wait a year for the next one, they should have developed them all at the same time, then released them every few months, not huge gaps in the middle.
Hmmm… Love the HL stuff and can’t wait for Ep2 (and Ep3 whenever that might be). I don’t see why people complain because of the 2 games they already have. The way I see it is that these are given free to help entice the folk who don’t have them (same price with or without them).
The episodic release thing sounded like a good idea at the time but is taking ages between episodes. I understand that there are advances in technology to contend with and changes need to be made to the engine to compete with other games coming out, and that engine changes are needed to add elements to the game so that it will remain fresh. And maybe a lot of the delay came about due to the decision to ship with TF2 and Portal, or the decision to ship on 3 platforms.
With any luck work has already begun on Ep3 and it will have a relatively short development time (we can hope). Where to go from there I don’t know. I just know that I enjoy the games and hope they can keep coming and hope they can figure a way to reduce development time.
Portal and Episode 2 better be awesome because the Orange Box seems like a huge waste of money right now, seeing as how you forced me to buy two games in the bundle that I already owned.
No one forced you to buy anything, it was about Ł30 and you'll get at least 3 decent games you don't have, so quit your moaning!
Personally I think Team Fortress 2 is great, and although I don't find it as gripping as CounterStrike, I am very pleased with my Orange Box purchase already.
Oh and Valve... Team Fortress 2 is crap and I'm hugely disappointed in you. Graphically it's fantastic but it's the exact same game as TFC was 8 years ago, and TFC hasn't aged well at all. It's incredibly boring to play, and no amount of cell shading can hide that fact. Portal and Episode 2 better be awesome because the Orange Box seems like a huge waste of money right now, seeing as how you forced me to buy two games in the bundle that I already owned.
Wtf..
So you might have played TF 2 yes..
But the bundle is what, like Ł30 on PC? That's a frickin bargain mate. Huge waste of money? That reply was a huge waste of space mate.
Anyway, as for episodic gaming, I don't see it surviving. I want Half Life 3. New engine maybe? But something MASSIVE.
Valve's episodic gaming adventure has failed simply because they've mismanaged it by being greedy, useless bastards.
The origial idea was for 6-monthly episodes of 6-8 hours gameplay for a budget price. Their reality is 18-month gaps, then splitting up the product they promised into three chunks and increasing the price on all of them.
I bought Episode 1 on the faith and the promise that the game would be continued at decent intervals, and at a fair price. Instead, I find myself having to wait an extra 6-months so that they can maximise their marketing campaign to include the delayed PS3 version, and most likely paying for the extended development on that platform too.
Im fine with episodic content if only a few are released after a huge release, i.e. HL2 followed by EP1, EP2 and EP3, but to just continue churning episodes out after that isint going to work. The source engine is a fantastic engine, and very potimised, but its starting to look old now with the new consoles and the shader heavy games with all the smoke, mood lighting, weird specular lighting, motion blur. They need to release HL3 with a completely rewritten source engine to be able to release more episodes.
Also, it hasnt really worked for them, instead of 6 month releases for the episodes as was said its like 18 months, the total cost to the gamer( if buying in the shops and using EP1 pricing is 90 euro ) is that of 2 full price games, usually FPS take around 20 hours from start to finish, theres no way all the episodes together will be 40 hours of gaming
One advantage of the episodes is that the source engine is updated for everyone, meaning mods like the HL2 cinematic mod can take advantage of the ability to have higher resolution models etc. so playing the cinematic mod for HL2 makes it look truely amazing compared to the low res textures/models of the original game
I think the Sam & Max episodes and the Half-Life episodes are two extremes. On the one hand you have the quick turnaround but fairly low quality of the Sam & Max episodes (very short/re-used dialogue, jokes and locations/average gameplay). On the other hand there's the 18 month gap between HL:E1 and E2 (although E3 should turn up a lot faster, it has been in development for as long as E2 already after all) but the excellent gameplay, art direction and sheer quality.
It's pretty clear that Valve are perfectionists and if that means waiting longer for an outstanding gameplay experience then what's wrong with that? Does anyone really wish Valve had shovelled out three mediocre episodes by now?
I'm glad Valve went down the episodic route, the alternative would have meant a long wait until 2009/2010 for more Half-Life.
Im fine with episodic content if only a few are released after a huge release, i.e. HL2 followed by EP1, EP2 and EP3, but to just continue churning episodes out after that isint going to work. The source engine is a fantastic engine, and very potimised, but its starting to look old now with the new consoles and the shader heavy games with all the smoke, mood lighting, weird specular lighting, motion blur. They need to release HL3 with a completely rewritten source engine to be able to release more episodes.
Also, it hasnt really worked for them, instead of 6 month releases for the episodes as was said its like 18 months, the total cost to the gamer( if buying in the shops and using EP1 pricing is 90 euro ) is that of 2 full price games, usually FPS take around 20 hours from start to finish, theres no way all the episodes together will be 40 hours of gaming
One advantage of the episodes is that the source engine is updated for everyone, meaning mods like the HL2 cinematic mod can take advantage of the ability to have higher resolution models etc. so playing the cinematic mod for HL2 makes it look truely amazing compared to the low res textures/models of the original game
To be fair, Source has been designed to be very scalable and Valve are able to just slot new technologies into it as if they were plugins. Motion blur, new lighting technology, upgraded physics and no doubt several other things have all been added into it for the Orange Box.
i think TF 2 is great and im looking forward to portal but thats not really the point is it? we should have had all the 3 ep by now but we are still waiting on 2. im sure my frustrations will melt away 10 minutes into ep 2 (like they did with ep 1) but really, its not working nor is it value for money. I hope we get a fully fledged half-life 3, they can do ep's after that if they wish but give us a full game first
To be fair, Source has been designed to be very scalable and Valve are able to just slot new technologies into it as if they were plugins. Motion blur, new lighting technology, upgraded physics and no doubt several other things have all been added into it for the Orange Box.
It's ageing pretty well imo.
judging by whats said in the lot coast audio commntary its not a easy s you make it sound. when they talk about doing better reflective maps and hdr they say they had to rewrite all of the graphical qualities for the engine to encorperate it, this of course takes time. or am i missing something?
anyway, valve are perfecionists, much like the epic team doing ut3, and id rather ave a well plished "done when its done" than a hal finished "here you go we ruhed it to get it out on cue".
The problem I have with episodic content is it makes them lazy. Look at EP1. Great story and gameplay, the same stuff that made Half-Life 2 so incredible. But are there new weapons, new enemies? Any new aspect to the gameplay? No. Aside from a very short addition to the HL2 story, EP1 adds absolutely nothing to HL2.
So, from that example, I have to ask myself... would three episodes like this be the equal of a new, massive project the size of HL2? Say, for example... Half-Life 3? And when I'm forced to say no... then the episodic design appears to be a mistake.
To be fair, Source has been designed to be very scalable and Valve are able to just slot new technologies into it as if they were plugins. Motion blur, new lighting technology, upgraded physics and no doubt several other things have all been added into it for the Orange Box.
It's ageing pretty well imo.
judging by whats said in the lot coast audio commntary its not a easy s you make it sound. when they talk about doing better reflective maps and hdr they say they had to rewrite all of the graphical qualities for the engine to encorperate it, this of course takes time. or am i missing something?
anyway, valve are perfecionists, much like the epic team doing ut3, and id rather ave a well plished "done when its done" than a hal finished "here you go we ruhed it to get it out on cue".
Well there is going to be some modification involved obviously, but it is relatively straightforward to modify the engine.
I'll just reiterate what I've said before. A FPS like Half-Life is probably the most difficult medium to pull off episodic gaming within. There is nothing that Valve can do to stop players doing what seems most natural, from their perspective, and comparing the cost:content ratio of the episodic method with the simple expansion method of old. For Ł15, in Opposing Force, you get a real decent chunk of game time, a host of new enemies and new weapons. Not so with the episodes so far.
I don't consider it mismanagment or lazyness/greed on the part of Valve that there is no way they can achieve this and turn a decent profit. I don't think the Orangebox decision has helped much mind, but I don't consider that to really be the deciding factor in whether or not their foray into episodic gaming will be condiered a success.
Maybe, at some point, improvments in tools and development methods will mean that it is much easier to turn out short episodes in quick succession but I don't quite think it's yet, at least for FPSs.
To be fair, Source has been designed to be very scalable and Valve are able to just slot new technologies into it as if they were plugins. Motion blur, new lighting technology, upgraded physics and no doubt several other things have all been added into it for the Orange Box.
It's ageing pretty well imo.
Ohh dont get me wrong, the source engine is one of the most optimized engines out there and runs amazingly well on on anything as fast as or faster than an x850 pro( i used to play HL2 with one ). I know they've updated max texture sizes and character polygon count( as the cinematic mode uses both ) and added more bloom/HDR, i didnt see any motion blur or anything on the EP2 trailers though, must recheck
Another point is how brave Valve have been to try Episodic gaming. They couldn't have seen from the outset that it'd have taken so long between episodes, they honestly thought 6 months. In reality it's taken longer and that's why they're reassessing now. I think that after Episode 3, then perhaps a Half Life 3 would be great. Big changes, new weapons and experiences. Much like HL2 was compared to HL1 with physics making it stand a world apart. Give us new toys! (please)
Personally, I don't like Episodic content at all. I'd rather wait for another year and a half/two years for a full 30+ hour experience then get a game that lasts at best 5-6 hours and then wait another year or more, and pay another 20 notes(after numberous delays)for the next chapter so I can carry on.
Imagine if you were a quarter of the way through Halo or Gran Turismo and suddenly the game stops and tells you you're going to have to wait for, at the minimum, another year and pay even more money before you can play any further. You'd be majorly p**sed, and feel quite ripped off which is exactly the way I feel about Episodic content.
It is worth waiting for a good game to be finished properly IMO. I've waited for over three years for Halo 3 and it hasn't dissapointed me because it includes everything in the package to make sure I'm going to get the most out of my experience and continue to do so for a very long time. I wish valve would now stop making Episodic content and go back to what they do best - making awesome, full games that you want to play again and again.
I'd rather wait for another year and a half/two years for a full 30+ hour experience then get a game that lasts at best 5-6 hours and then wait another year or more, and pay another 20 notes(after numberous delays)for the next chapter so I can carry on.
Yeah... but this is Valve. It takes them five, six, years to make a full game. You'd be waiting until 2010. Episodes mean we get to continue the Half-Life saga without waiting that long. A good thing no?
And besides, put the three episodes together and you have a full length game. There's nothing stopping you from waiting until all three are out and then playing through them all at once.
Personally, I don't like Episodic content at all. I'd rather wait for another year and a half/two years for a full 30+ hour experience then get a game that lasts at best 5-6 hours and then wait another year or more, and pay another 20 notes(after numberous delays)for the next chapter
Agreed.
I was against episodic gaming from the start and I told them it wouldn't work.
HL1 is one of my favourite games of all time and I think HL2 is pretty good too, yet I probably wouldn't buy any expansion packs to either of them. That's essentially what I and the general public see episodes as - small expansion packs that add a few more hours of gameplay without Valve having to spend any cash on creating a new engine + models/assets. I don't feel like spending any money on that. Small updates to the engine including HDR etc etc are also usless to me. If they spent some time creating a decent editor similar to Unreal's editor UnrealEd and bundled it with Episode 2 I might be tmepted.
The only reason I'll be playing Episode 2 is because it comes with TF2 and Portal. If TF2 and Portal weren't included then I wouldn't buy it.
I think there's also a mental thing. If you see a game at Ł15, you automatically think it's of inferior quality to the full price games.
I'd rather wait for another year and a half/two years for a full 30+ hour experience then get a game that lasts at best 5-6 hours and then wait another year or more, and pay another 20 notes(after numberous delays)for the next chapter so I can carry on.
Yeah... but this is Valve. It takes them five, six, years to make a full game. You'd be waiting until 2010. Episodes mean we get to continue the Half-Life saga without waiting that long. A good thing no?
And besides, put the three episodes together and you have a full length game. There's nothing stopping you from waiting until all three are out and then playing through them all at once.
True, but when you buy three Episodes it works out at 60 quid, rather than 40, and you're still not getting as many hours of gameplay as you would if it were a full game. I know what you mean about Valve taking their time over releases though, but if other companies can do it whats their excuse? Still, I will play all three Episodes all the way through when the final episode is released, eventually!
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