Epic has achieved stunning visual feats on the high-end consoles of today, most notably with Gears of War and Unreal Tournament III. But there seems little chance of it going to work on Wii's microchips, as Mark Rein openly admits: "I don't think there's a lot of money in making engines for the Wii."
It's a common notion that relatively few games push the Wii to its graphical limit (Super Mario Galaxy being the clear exception), but Rein has little interest in stepping in to show everyone how it's done.
"What we're doing is the really high-end, next-generation visuals," he said. "We're pushing these machines real hard. I just think that we have too many things on our plate to go back and put resources into that kind of thing."
One of his key reasons seemed to be a doubt of the profitability for third parties on Wii. "I don't think there's a lot of money on making engines for the Wii," he commented.
"I think the big software dollars right now are being earned on Xbox 360, and they're going to be earned on PlayStation 3. And I think, unless you're going to sell your engine to Nintendo, you're going for scraps on that platform," he told GameTrailers.
We have one question, though: when will people stop referring to the very-much current-gen PS3 and Xbox 360 as "next-gen"? Stop it!
They'll stop saying it when the PS4 and XboxX2 (just a speculative name, don't yell at me) are announced
Sadly, I think Rein has a point. It's clearly not as powerful as the other 2 8th generation () consoles, and that's exactly why nobody is making games for it. It's a bad sign when 11 million worldwide sales can't persuade a developer to even think about it.
All it'd take is one decent third-party adult-aimed game and I think people would change their mind. It's either that or we're doomed to suffer cutesy cartoony mini-games until it falls apart.
I still find it sad that visuals solely determine what is and what isn't considered next generation.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the Wii is part of THIS generation therefore it was a next generation console in the run up to it's release. Just because it has less power doesn't mean it's last generation. Let's not forget that the Wii is currently outselling all other consoles bar the DS.
Surely discounting the Wii's potential as uneconomical is doing little more than perpetuating the idea that the console is for lazy ports and simple looking party games. With such a large user base I'm amazed that engine development would be unproiftable.
But hey, I'm sure he knows more about the economics of this industry than I do...
hording money sems to be what the games industry is now boiling down too, and thats deffinately not a good thing. what ever happened to making games because you want to? or because you had a good idea for something that you couldnt do in a film? sadly now though publishers control whats going on far more than developers themselves.
andsadly this means less innovation, less investment in new games genre's, and less uniqueness to IP's.
I still find it sad that visuals solely determine what is and what isn't considered next generation.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the Wii is part of THIS generation therefore it was a next generation console in the run up to it's release. Just because it has less power doesn't mean it's last generation. Let's not forget that the Wii is currently outselling all other consoles bar the DS.
Surely discounting the Wii's potential as uneconomical is doing little more than perpetuating the idea that the console is for lazy ports and simple looking party games. With such a large user base I'm amazed that engine development would be unproiftable.
But hey, I'm sure he knows more about the economics of this industry than I do...
The thing is - although the Wii is selling incredibly well, software is selling very poorly meaning the developers arent going to get money back on their engines. Like Dajmin says though all it will take is 1 or 2 more mature themed, original, excellent games to be made that sell well to get developers to create proper games on the Wii. Its no good saying that Nintendos own games are selling well as this happens on all their consoles. The developers need a really good selling game on it too. Otherwise a Mini game 1 hit wonder the Wii will remain for developers making a quick buck
Although the Wii is selling incredibly well it's software isn't selling as well as other platforms. They could try making an engine for the Wii but then again how many FPS games are on the Wii at the moment?
The Wii is a good machine but it needs that 3rd party support. Nintendo will make some great games for it but without other developers backing it to fill the areas Nintendo will miss (Realistic driving games, etc) gamers looking for this option will feel somewhat let down.
They could try assisting developers too, it wouldn't kill them to help a developer by giving them the Metroid engine so that they had a base to use to deliver another title to their system. Fighting with developers is no way to go.
Although the Wii is selling incredibly well it's software isn't selling as well as other platforms. They could try making an engine for the Wii but then again how many FPS games are on the Wii at the moment?
The Wii is a good machine but it needs that 3rd party support. Nintendo will make some great games for it but without other developers backing it to fill the areas Nintendo will miss (Realistic driving games, etc) gamers looking for this option will feel somewhat let down.
They could try assisting developers too, it wouldn't kill them to help a developer by giving them the Metroid engine so that they had a base to use to deliver another title to their system. Fighting with developers is no way to go.
Hey thats what I said
Part from 2nd half. Ive known Ninty always make it hard for developers by not properly helping them. Its like they are scared that they'll make a better game then they do so allow them to access the full power. Imagine if one of the other developers made a games as good looking as Galaxy before Nintendo. They'd be proper gutted
Although the Wii is selling incredibly well it's software isn't selling as well as other platforms. They could try making an engine for the Wii but then again how many FPS games are on the Wii at the moment?
The Wii is a good machine but it needs that 3rd party support. Nintendo will make some great games for it but without other developers backing it to fill the areas Nintendo will miss (Realistic driving games, etc) gamers looking for this option will feel somewhat let down.
They could try assisting developers too, it wouldn't kill them to help a developer by giving them the Metroid engine so that they had a base to use to deliver another title to their system. Fighting with developers is no way to go.
Hey thats what I said
Part from 2nd half. Ive known Ninty always make it hard for developers by not properly helping them. Its like they are scared that they'll make a better game then they do so allow them to access the full power. Imagine if one of the other developers made a games as good looking as Galaxy before Nintendo. They'd be proper gutted
True but Nintendo would get a cut of the profits anyway with licensing, etc. It's time for Nintendo to start "pimping" developers.
The reason there are so few good 3rd party games on Wii are that they put all their cash into developing PS3. Everyone thought Sony would rule just as they have the last 2 gens. Next year will see good 3rd party games on Wii as developers move to where the cash is.
yes sadly ive got to agree with some of the statements made here, its sad that in this day and age graphics seem to make a great game,(they dont)!im old skool, going back to the old amiga days, coming through the 8 and 16 bit glory days, and there have been fantastic games (gameplay wise) but poor on graphics, this agruement has been going on for years,lets take halo 3,its not the best graphics on the 360, if you say compare it to gears of war, its the whole package making it the great game it is, yes the wii is under powered compared to the ps3 and 360, i own a 360 and a wii, and yes the wii is basic on the graphics, slightly more powereful than the gamecube, but its the moition sensors that make the games more fun and unique,the game industry is becoming like the film industry, great explosions and cgi are nothing without a great story.
His view may change if the Wii pulls off a 100 million user install base although the games they tend to make are pretty violent compared to most of the Wiis other games. I can see having to dumb down the graphics and make it work with the Wiis controller would pretty much entail making a whole new game as opposed to a port.
yes sadly ive got to agree with some of the statements made here, its sad that in this day and age graphics seem to make a great game,(they dont)!im old skool, going back to the old amiga days, coming through the 8 and 16 bit glory days, and there have been fantastic games (gameplay wise) but poor on graphics, this agruement has been going on for years,lets take halo 3,its not the best graphics on the 360, if you say compare it to gears of war, its the whole package making it the great game it is, yes the wii is under powered compared to the ps3 and 360, i own a 360 and a wii, and yes the wii is basic on the graphics, slightly more powereful than the gamecube, but its the moition sensors that make the games more fun and unique,the game industry is becoming like the film industry, great explosions and cgi are nothing without a great story.
You said Amiga
We're friends now
Hardware leaps don't exactly make great games, takes more than that.
For instance: Rise of the Robots - 3D pre-rendered sprites, jaw dropping at the time. No SF2 or MK though was it?
POD - One of the first titles to use that new MMX thingy in Intel CPUs. Wasn't a great game.
Aqauanox - Used the new shiny per pixel shading features of the Geforce 3. Game was not great though.
Powerful hardware does not mean great games. Clever developers do and that's what the Wii needs. The PS3 and 360 has some great titles right now but even without all that power developers would still find some way to wow us if they wanted to.
On a similar note that No More Heroes game looks brill. Wont dent the market (just as Killer 7 didnt) but is exactly the game im looking for on the Wii & IMO is one of the best looking game out there too (even against all the HD loveliness of 360 and PS3 games). All it needs is a distinct art sty;e rather than trying do do realistc. Also NiGHTS and Zak & Wiki should be other excellent 3rd party game. As said though these will probably not make a impact in software sales.
Rein seems to have a pop at every thing these days it's hard to have much respect for him, despite his achievements.
My gripe with the term "next-gen" isn't to do with time, it's that it has no meaing its just a buzz word to shift new consoles and games. How many times have you heard a dev describe their game as being "truly next-gen"?
11 million wii owners waiting for a great game + developer with great game = monster monster hit.
Well put! But you have to remember that majority of those 11 mill Wii owners are actualy OAPs and people who dont want a proper title so there is less chanec of the huge success than you think. Could get more self called serious gamers to buy one though
More confirmation from the games developers themselves that the Wii is completely underpowered and outgunned, leading to a complete lack of descent games for it, and more evidence that the gimmick of the controller is wearing off very FAST.
Oh how Nintendo will wish they made a proper next-gen console in a years time, but I fear Nintendo will be going down the route of SEGA and the Dreamcast...and becoming a multi-platform software only company.
More confirmation from the games developers themselves that the Wii is completely underpowered and outgunned, leading to a complete lack of descent games for it, and more evidence that the gimmick of the controller is wearing off very FAST.
Oh how Nintendo will wish they made a proper next-gen console in a years time, but I fear Nintendo will be going down the route of SEGA and the Dreamcast...and becoming a multi-platform software only company.
Never happen! theyve still got stacks of cash from DS and training & Pokemon games. Also too stubborn. Theyd never do it.
People go on about Ninty being innovators by choice. But think about it. Nintendo hadnt got a chance if they went in the market vs PS3 & 360. The 3rd party developers had already just about gave up on them. Majority of Consumers werent bothered as the latter N64 years and GC years proved. Nintendo would have bombed again in the home console market. That is why they created the Wii. They had to take a chance and luckily for them it paid off. Same with DS vs PSP. I have no doubt that if they had just released a souped up GBA they would have lost the handheld market too. But they had to take a chance and released the DS with brain training that proved immensely popular.
Nintendo would have bombed again in the home console market. That is why they created the Wii. They had to take a chance and luckily for them it paid off.
Paid off in the short term yes, I agree, they have made a lot of short term cash from the Wii, due to the console being cheap, and having an exciting 'gimmick', and also appealing to kids and girls.
However if you look longer term, it is all falling apart. People are bored/disillusioned with the controller already, and the games just aren't coming, and when they do, they are disapointing compared to the 360/PS3.
Sales of Wii games are poor, partly due to the lack of them, and the poor quality, but also because the target audience of the Wii (kids and girls) have much less disposable income to the PS3/360 target demographic (20-30yr old men, with much higher incomes).
Games are the bread and butter of the consoles, and the Wii is failing completely in this area, which will bring about it's quick fall, and make the Wii into the most popular 'in the attic gathering dust' console of all time.
So although Nintendo and their fanboys are laughing now, because of high hardware sales, give it a year, and the profits from console sales will have tailed off completely (market at saturation point). Nintendo will then only be bringing in a very modest revenue from the games sales, as people simply are not buying the games (as pointed out earlier in this thread).
If you think about the amount of money the Wii and DS have made for Nintendo their business is booming whilst Sony loses money by selling its console. Sony needs to get the exclusives rolling to claw back money to break even whilst Nintendo can literally sit on their bottoms and rake it in. With all the profits and experience from the Wii and DS I am very intrigued at what their next console will be. Totally for the casual gamer or will they pull something else off? Easily the most interesting of the three companys to keep an eye on.
Galaxy looks damn sweet, but it's still cartoon graphics. We've yet to see realistic graphics done on the Wii. Endless Ocean is a good start though. I mean I really enjoyed playing through Godfather: Blackhand, but it was a PS2 port.
I bet Rare would have have something jaw-droppingly amazing planned for the Wii if they were still on board.
But to play Devil's Advocate to M_the_C, I'd have thought developing a decent graphics engine is exactly what the Wii needs. Okay, it wouldn't look like UE3 stuff, but I'm still pretty sure they could come up with something if they could dedicate the resources to it. And then other developers could do what they've done with UE3 (and Source), where otherwise they might not have bothered.
Sad though it is to admit, my hopes are currently all pinned on EA to come up with something that looks and plays well. They admitted they underestimated the Wii's success and as such are apparently going to be working on titles. And if they can do versions of NFS Pro Street for 360/PS3 & Wii, then it can't be all that hard to reverse engineer an engine for the job.
I mentioned it in another thread, but NFS:MW looked great on the Cube and the Wii is way more powerful than that, so we can expect (nay, demand!) better graphics than we're currently getting. And once people get over the "limited" power of the Wii for graphics, they'll be able to develop games for their actual content more happily.
When all you have to promote your game is shots, obviously they don't want people to see PS2 quality. In that case it's understandable. They're all just too lazy to put in the work to make them better.
Epic do mindless generic sci-fi action, and they do it well. That's where they're comfortable. The Wii probably scares them, because it challenges them to think outside the box, which they are clearly not willing or incapable of doing.
I mentioned it in another thread, but NFS:MW looked great on the Cube and the Wii is way more powerful than that, so we can expect (nay, demand!) better graphics than we're currently getting.
I disagree with this, I really and honestly don't think it is anymore powerful than the Gamecube. Certainly there is not yet a game that can disprove my theory. It's just the emperors new clothes.
11 million wii owners waiting for a great game + developer with great game = monster monster hit.
Not quite. Alot of people that own Wii's are family's with youngy children, girls and OAP's to keep the grandchildren busy when they vist. People like that aren't going to go and buy loads of games a year. Thats the reason why the software sales are so low and the problem Nintendo face. They may shift loads of consoles but software sales are the most important factor. Until Nintendo can get constant 1 million + selling games like 360 has, they won't have 'proper' support from 3rd party developers and instead will be overloaded with mini-games or party-games.
I mentioned it in another thread, but NFS:MW looked great on the Cube and the Wii is way more powerful than that, so we can expect (nay, demand!) better graphics than we're currently getting.
I disagree with this, I really and honestly don't think it is anymore powerful than the Gamecube. Certainly there is not yet a game that can disprove my theory. It's just the emperors new clothes.
If you watch the videos of SMG then you should be able to see the difference. Bloom lighting for a start. With the resolution still in SD it is obviously going to be harder to see the difference from the Cube graphics when shown static images. ATi reckond the GPU to be between 1.5 and 2 times more powerful than the Cube GPU.
Nintendo would have bombed again in the home console market. That is why they created the Wii. They had to take a chance and luckily for them it paid off.
Paid off in the short term yes, I agree, they have made a lot of short term cash from the Wii, due to the console being cheap, and having an exciting 'gimmick', and also appealing to kids and girls.
However if you look longer term, it is all falling apart. People are bored/disillusioned with the controller already, and the games just aren't coming, and when they do, they are disapointing compared to the 360/PS3.
Sales of Wii games are poor, partly due to the lack of them, and the poor quality, but also because the target audience of the Wii (kids and girls) have much less disposable income to the PS3/360 target demographic (20-30yr old men, with much higher incomes).
Games are the bread and butter of the consoles, and the Wii is failing completely in this area, which will bring about it's quick fall, and make the Wii into the most popular 'in the attic gathering dust' console of all time.
So although Nintendo and their fanboys are laughing now, because of high hardware sales, give it a year, and the profits from console sales will have tailed off completely (market at saturation point). Nintendo will then only be bringing in a very modest revenue from the games sales, as people simply are not buying the games (as pointed out earlier in this thread).
All that a 'guess'. The response from the industry towards the wii is a very positive one.
Anyone with a bit of savvy would know 3rd part held off on the wii till they knew what it could do and if it was worth the time. A lot of developers have gone on record stating they are now shifting more focus onto the wii. That would mean more games next year. Not less.
The wii does not have a lack of games. It has a lack of games aimed at the traditional gamer. But thats two seperate scenarios. I have no doubt over time there will be games for both. The first years selection of games has a problem of them all bottle necking because there is plenty coming for the wii.
The wiimote hasn't even begun to show its potential yet. Look at any review for metroid prime 3 and you'll see the main thing they talk about is the controls. I wouldn't be surprised if thats how we will control future FPS's. And still calling the wiimote a gimmick is old now. It just makes you look ignorant.
If you watch the videos of SMG then you should be able to see the difference. Bloom lighting for a start. With the resolution still in SD it is obviously going to be harder to see the difference from the Cube graphics when shown static images. ATi reckond the GPU to be between 1.5 and 2 times more powerful than the Cube GPU.
But I thought you Wii owners were not into graphics..else you would have brought a 360/PS3?
i like graphics, but i prefer gameplay, and halo...generic sci-fi shooter with sparkly semi-good graphics, gears, barely above average gameplay with nice shiney graphics, SPM platformer with rpg elements, fairly unique but simple in terms of graphics.
The wiimote hasn't even begun to show its potential yet. Look at any review for metroid prime 3 and you'll see the main thing they talk about is the controls. I wouldn't be surprised if thats how we will control future FPS's. And still calling the wiimote a gimmick is old now. It just makes you look ignorant.
To be honest, the wii-mote actually puts me off the console. Im a traditional gamer and obviously im rather sceptical as to what it can do for gaming. I've played Wii Sports and it obviously works well for games like that but the main problem is when it comes to traditional games and thats all im interested in for Wii. While the controls for Metroid do work better than expected, its still not very accurate and isn't better than using a mouse or a controller for that matter. Its just another control option. Finally, people still call the Wii-mote a gimmick as it hasn't shown us that its a better option than a standard controller. Like I said, it works well for some games but for 'proper' games like Zelda: TP, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Brawl, I would much rather use a normal controller and I think its something they should give you the option of rather than forcing you to use the Wii-mote for games its not suited for.
If you watch the videos of SMG then you should be able to see the difference. Bloom lighting for a start. With the resolution still in SD it is obviously going to be harder to see the difference from the Cube graphics when shown static images. ATi reckond the GPU to be between 1.5 and 2 times more powerful than the Cube GPU.
But I thought you Wii owners were not into graphics..else you would have brought a 360/PS3?
The wiimote hasn't even begun to show its potential yet. Look at any review for metroid prime 3 and you'll see the main thing they talk about is the controls. I wouldn't be surprised if thats how we will control future FPS's. And still calling the wiimote a gimmick is old now. It just makes you look ignorant.
To be honest, the wii-mote actually puts me off the console. Im a traditional gamer and obviously im rather sceptical as to what it can do for gaming. I've played Wii Sports and it obviously works well for games like that but the main problem is when it comes to traditional games and thats all im interested in for Wii. While the controls for Metroid do work better than expected, its still not very accurate and isn't better than using a mouse or a controller for that matter. Its just another control option. Finally, people still call the Wii-mote a gimmick as it hasn't shown us that its a better option than a standard controller. Like I said, it works well for some games but for 'proper' games like Zelda: TP, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Brawl, I would much rather use a normal controller and I think its something they should give you the option of rather than forcing you to use the Wii-mote for games its not suited for.
Granted it wouldn't be ideal for all games. But whats the problem with choice? Those that it improves upon use it, and those that it doesn't don't. The problem so far is everybdy is basing on the games that we've seen so far. Which lets be honest, are obvious cheap cash ins, or poor attempts for the most part.
I haven't played Metroid 3 yet and i assume you have. But from what i've read thwere isn't one reviewer who doesn't sing the praises of the controls. Point of fact they have said going back to standard controls feels sluggish. which directly defies what you are saying. And i feel i believe them more. From what glimpses i've seen on games like Resi 4, where i played both versions, the wii version had MUCH better accuracy and speed purely from the fact a pointer is better then a analogue stick at those actions. Some would be for RTS or point and click adventures. these games have always been better on the PC and the translation to the console it semed out of place with analogue sticks. Now i know these types will benefit from the wiimote.
And we aren't even on to the tilt sensing and accelerometers in the device. It is not for us to come up with ways to use the wiimote its for developers. and i do feel that it has a lot of potential. If not too directly improve upon the experience by control, but maybe to inject more fun and freshness into some games.
edit: oh and no we shouldn't be using the word gimmick. It implies it has no value beyond trivial novelty, which it has already proven wrong, opinion or not.
You should make your mind up fanboy Mitchman. You have contradicted a lot of what you've said.
Ouch, have I hit a nerve there? I'm certainly not a fanboy, I don't own a next-gen console. I think calling me a fanboy, then continuing to defend a games console to the hilt is slight hypocrisy.
People are bored of the Wiimote already, and then you say there havent been any games?? So why would they be bored then when they havent had a chance to use it?
Wii Sport came with the Wii, people had no choice. You didn't even need to buy a game to get bored with it.
Wii games arent selling well?? But you just said no games are being released?
The mediocre games that have already been released are selling poorly, and the few games that are actually being released are selling poorly. Surely that doesn't need spelling out to you?
Wiimote a gimmick? The same was said about the Ds touch screen and looked what happened there.
The touch screen on the DS was a genuinely good idea. I have never criticised the DS.
We never said we werent into graphics and said they dont matter, YOU said the Wii has poor graphics. Excuse us for proving you wrong.
Proving me wrong? Name one game that looks better on the Wii, than even the worst looking game on the 360/PS3.
I owned a 360 since release and in the end sold it cause its flopped in japan and doesnt have a wide variety of games. The Wii along with its VC offers a lot of variety and has more potential when it comes to gameplay.
Good luck. Hope you enjoy playing Cooking Mama
By the way, if this is a gimmick then why have Microsoft and Sony copies Nintendos ideas with a PS3 motion controller, and a 360 wiimote??
The PS3 Motion Controller is used SUBTLEY in games to add to the experience, but not as the sole control method. A completely different idea to waving around your arms like a t*t throughout the entire game. Look at the one game on the PS3 where the only control method is using the Motion Control (Lair). It bombed and got highly panned, due to the 'gimmicky' control system. Oooh, thats a control system just like every game on the Wii...
Not to mention chicken shoot .I've got both a wii and a 360 and although of late i spend more time playing 360,i always look into wii websites first.The reason for this?Innovation! I want to play something different and be dragged into a game by actually physically interacting with it,jumping around the living room,sweating like an overweight wagon driver. These games will come eventually,hopefully sooner rather than later and i have to say,i'm pinning a lot of hope on No More Heroes to be that kind of game ( think it will be! ). I also think MOH:H2 will be a huge selling game if they've nailed the controls as previews suggest,not just for the controls but the 32 player on-line.gaming as well.Let's just hope a headset is in the pipeline
I owned a 360 since release and in the end sold it cause its flopped in japan and doesnt have a wide variety of games. The Wii along with its VC offers a lot of variety and has more potential when it comes to gameplay.
Haha, christ that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! You sold it because it flopped in Japan?
'Yea, I'm thinking of giving up gaming altogether because of the current crop of consoles' poor combined sales in botswana and togo.'
And a wide variety of games? Do you not care about the QUALITY of games? And come on, get over the VC, it's a nice idea but the fact that emulators have been out for ages and the fact that NEW games are not being released on it is a MAJOR flaw with it.
Just look at the the Live Arcade, with some retro games being redrawn for HD, that's awesome - as is the fact that new indie games are released like Geometry Wars on 360 and Calling All Cars on PSN.
All the VC does is remind you that a) most games you loved as a kid aren't even a millionth as good now and have aged very badly and b) you are Nintendo's bitch for paying nearly a tenner for a 10 year old N64 game. Ouch.
if someone gets enjoyment out of the VC games and the Wii in general, then trying to deny them this pleasure otherwise just makes you come across as a fool as well as someone who seems to be jealously looking over the fence - if people are happy with their purchase then good - leave them to it.
Personally, i'm happy with the Wii, albeit it's taken some time for things to pick up but I tend not to play games too often these days anyway. Got nothing but praise for the controls - Resident Evil 4 plays like a dream and am surprised that there aren't more FPS's released for the Wii (maybe everyone's too hung up on having state of the art graphics?). It seems like the success of the Wii sure has ruffled some feathers in this thread but I guess some people are just too set in their ways...
if someone gets enjoyment out of the VC games and the Wii in general, then trying to deny them this pleasure otherwise just makes you come across as a fool as well as someone who seems to be jealously looking over the fence - if people are happy with their purchase then good - leave them to it.
It doesn't make me look like a fool if I said you could play all the games on emulators for free before hand which makes it seem more ridiculous that they aren't promoting indie games through it.
RE4 plays like a dream? Great, it bloody should do, with the fact it was designed for the GC and that's what the Wii is but with a less sensitive controller!
So Mark thinks that the console which will have highest user base soon will only make scraps for a licensed engine. I'm not seeing the logic there. We know he hates the wii so why keep throwing these pot shots around. Maybe to make himself/Epic feel better over the lawsuits that are flying in their direction.
Paid off in the short term yes, I agree, they have made a lot of short term cash from the Wii, due to the console being cheap, and having an exciting 'gimmick', and also appealing to kids and girls.
Price is only one factor, look at the Gamecube for further proof. It's the innovation that's captured the consumers attention - calling it a gimmick just makes you come across as ignorant, but I guess the longevity of the Wii will prove you wrong in time, if a year isn't long enough already to say it isn't a flash in the pan.
However if you look longer term, it is all falling apart. People are bored/disillusioned with the controller already, and the games just aren't coming, and when they do, they are disapointing compared to the 360/PS3.
Speculative nonsense, maybe you know a few people who are bored of it, but apart from the console being in its infancy and not even close to its potential, your generalisations are unfounded. Plus the games are coming, four big Nintendo franchiseses arriving within the next few months just for starters. And you won't find a similar game that matches up to Mario Galaxy on any other system. More one sided dribble from you i'm afraid.
Sales of Wii games are poor, partly due to the lack of them, and the poor quality, but also because the target audience of the Wii (kids and girls) have much less disposable income to the PS3/360 target demographic (20-30yr old men, with much higher incomes).
The Wii has no target demographic as Nintendo have stated; they intend to appeal to everyone - and with games such as Wii Fit they may just succeed in doing so. I'd also be interested to see the software sales in comparison to the PS3 and then decide what is poor or not.
The rest of your post is unsubstantiated dribble - considering the momentum of the Wii is still going strong even a year after its release, I find your suggestion that it will fail in a year quite absurd (by the way, products that fail to properly expand the market are more likely to suffer from market saturation rather than something that grows it) - but hey, critics were foolish in writing Nintendo off originally and I guess you'll just have to join the list and eat your words when the time comes about.
if someone gets enjoyment out of the VC games and the Wii in general, then trying to deny them this pleasure otherwise just makes you come across as a fool as well as someone who seems to be jealously looking over the fence - if people are happy with their purchase then good - leave them to it.
It doesn't make me look like a fool if I said you could play all the games on emulators for free before hand which makes it seem more ridiculous that they aren't promoting indie games through it.
RE4 plays like a dream? Great, it bloody should do, with the fact it was designed for the GC and that's what the Wii is but with a less sensitive controller!
Yes but im sure not everyone has unscrupulous morals and would rather legitimately play games via the service - it simply provides games which are otherwise unavailable (and yes, even some i'm sure you can't even find emulated) - and the promotion of indie games via VC is in the works last time I read, definitely something Nintendo hasn't overlooked. Backward compatability worked a treat for the PS2's success but is now taken for granted, so think before you knock it.
I'm afraid your other comments aren't worth a reply.
11 million wii owners waiting for a great game + developer with great game = monster monster hit.
That explains why Wii Play >>>>>>>>> Metroid Prime 3.
you are forgetting that wii play was a launch title, it was the perfect game for the christmas period and everyone just buys it for the controller anyway.
I have heard people say that developers don't develop much for wii because software sales are poor.. but I am just marvelling at the asupidity of that idea... you can't very well sell someting if it doesn't get made. if companies aren't making any decent games, then they can't really get high software sales can they?? what the hell is going on?? the wii has sold bucketloads. teh software will obviously sell if only they brought out some of it.
To be fair, the guy's got a point..Epic have always been about cutting edge technology and building next-gen (or current cutting-edge gen) engines as a company, so i understand exactly why this would be a backward step technically even if not financially!
In reality he's saying anyone can build a top-notch last-gen engine now with the expertise that is available (and the Wii falls into this category, great console but not truly next gen spec wise!) so makes good business sense to concentrate on 360/PS3 powerhouses!
Who gives a s**t what mark rein thinks, Wii users don't want 1 god damn FPS after another on our console. Cause from what i've gathered (having borrowed my girlfriends 360) is that all the 360 has are 2 good FPS. Anyone who doubts Nintendo's status and future endeavours needs to watch that 90 minute presentation they gave at E3. It'll definitely get the Playstation and Xbox fanboys thinking of some nifty one liners to diss the Wii. I also strongly think that games like Gears and Bioshock would benefit greatly from the Wii remote, look at Metroid 3 and that's how a game should be. Those stupid dual analog sticks have been done to death. Not only does Wii offer extremely innovative design and potential for the future, it caters for us all, i'm as hardcore a gamer as it can get and it's the only console that hits the spot for me. f**k off whoever says kids and girls are the core market. The future is well and truly bright with Mario, Metroid, Resident Evil, Smash Bros Brawl, Nights and a plethora of others headed our way. Apart from Assassin's creed I can't think of a single 360 game worth bothering with. Move on with the degrading Nintendo, they're going to hold out as best current gen console for the remainder of this decade, it's only just begun for them.
You lot make me laugh - hard. The equation for success in every generation bar none has been quite simple: largest installed userbase=winner. The idea that the Wii will crash and burn is patently ridiculous. It may not have any great games at the moment and there will probably be no more than a handful over its life; BUT while we may think of it as being shallow and superficial, this very description has been the cornerstone of every money-making fad in history.
The fact of the matter is that Nintendo are the only company with a sound financial model for the console they're selling - they're actually making money on it. MS are burning cash like there's no tomorrow in order to get it sold and after 2 years there's still no profit in sight and large amounts of people have been turned off by the red ring of death. And that "profit" is not just to recoup on the 360 but also the sh**load they spent on the original Xbox too.
Don't get me started on Sony - they made the fatal mistake of buying into their own hype on what the Playstation brand really stood for WITHOUT having the market research to back it up. Gamers don't want digital entertainment hubs - that's what PC's are for - and their belief that young professionals would buy the giant black slab known as the p**s3 - sorry PS3 - meant they cut out something close to 60% of the original market that bought into the first 2 PS's - teenagers and kids, the original market for video games; now they're paying for it. Add to that the fact that by all accounts it's an utter pain to code for and that it's actually barely more powerful than the 360(a fact acknowledged in a backhand sort of way by the exec who said that it would be 5-6 years before we saw the best of the console - D'oh, just like every other console, then!) and you've got a stillborn next-generation saturated with boring, generic FPS's and bland racing games whose only real progression has come from a concept(motion control as a way of gaming) which most people consider to be a gimmick.
At least Nintendo can take credit for taking gaming in a new direction, though.
Who gives a s**t what mark rein thinks, Wii users don't want 1 god damn FPS after another on our console.
But we want to have more Mario games one after another? Zelda one after another? Metroid (well actually MP3 rocked)?
Cause from what i've gathered (having borrowed my girlfriends 360) is that all the 360 has are 2 good FPS.
And they're gonna get Resident Evil 5. As of right now, us Wii owners aren't for the same reason Mark Rein think of the Wii. Thats enough for me to consider a 360 or PS3.
Anyone who doubts Nintendo's status and future endeavours needs to watch that 90 minute presentation they gave at E3. It'll definitely get the Playstation and Xbox fanboys thinking of some nifty one liners to diss the Wii.
Actually I have plenty more reason to "diss" the Wii after watching that hour and half talk of Wii Fit and how awesome Nintendo is...
I mentioned it in another thread, but NFS:MW looked great on the Cube and the Wii is way more powerful than that, so we can expect (nay, demand!) better graphics than we're currently getting.
I disagree with this, I really and honestly don't think it is anymore powerful than the Gamecube. Certainly there is not yet a game that can disprove my theory. It's just the emperors new clothes.
I find MitchMans comment funny here really its just the Emperors new Clothes... every generation of gaming to date and the PS3 and the Xbox 360 do nothing than confirm this...
People like to buy the same formuala of game every Gen but Better Graphics you can pretty much predict the way every 1st person games gonna be either scifi or some war... But we the folks out there keep on buying because they got some new Hi Def clothes. In one sentence MichMan has sumed up the whole of gaming with "The Emperors New Clothes"
Nintendo took a risk in stearing clear of the Graphics race this Gen and also took a risk at a new control it now to see if people just want more of the same or something different.. Also its a good mark to not go the expensive Graphics route if the controler doesn't take off but and also there as im aware they are the only ones making a profit on each console sold.. At the end of the day its a matter of choice stick with what you know PS3/360 same games same control but fancy new clothes or go with Nintendo and have a new experince with a new control....
nintendo's wii is one of the best selling consoles. yes it's cheaper, but this doesn't mean it should suffer cheap games, like ps2, cube ports, and party games. the wii badly needs good 3rd party support if it's to succeed longer than the gamecube. the cube also lost 3rd party support, because nintendo wanted it to use mini-disks instead of the CD format the ps2 and xbox used. nintendo's pirate paranoia! only EA has made a couple of half decent games for the wii, so far. will have to see what their next wii/psp game heroes 2 is like. hopefully grasshopper's no more heroes will be good, and capcom's is bring the wii umbrella chronicles. i hope it's on-rails arcade style works, but i have my doubts. also i'd like to see crisis, day of disaster out soon and sadness. i've head sadness may not get released until 09 now, if at all. and project h.a.m.m.e.r has been shelved for now. also it's a bad shame that rockstar's manhunt 2 on the wii got banned last summer. at least the u.s. get a slightly edited version this halloween, but nothing planed for europe! the wii needs good software from both inhouse and 3rd party developers to push it. software sells consoles and supports their success.
"We have one question, though: when will people stop referring to the very-much current-gen PS3 and Xbox 360 as "next-gen"? Stop it!" I've been shouting that at people for months.
Who needs him to make a graphics engine? The two game examples don't really do much with a storyline as far as I know...
11 million consoles sold. If 10 % of people buy your games that's 1.1 million copies. I'd expect more than 10% of wii owners to buy a good game...
Wasn't PS2 the least powerful of the last generation consoles, yet developers were still falling over themselves to make games for it? Some still are making games for it. I can't see why they would ignore the Wii just because it can't push the XBox or PS3 in terms of visuals. Seems essentially very shallow from the developer. Just thought I would point that out.
The graphics are a part of the game, thus a gameplay, animations and audio with story, etcetera, completes the whole package .
Almost every game that was best at a time had good graphics for that period of time. Every one loves a good game and if are graphics prettyer that's even better . Just look at remakes of old games and movies.
The power of the machines has nothing to do with development of the games for them, that would mean that nobody would develop games for hand consoles.
Thing is that all next gen developers wants to make games that they could'nt do before ( effects, fotorealisitcs...) so they would'nt be behind competition in getting a game that is AAA.
And with that, credibilty for the game company for future projects and money. That is easyer to do on a more powerful machines.
After all the winner platform will be the one with the best games. Time would tell. And for now i think time works for PS3
After leaving this thread alone for a couple of days, I'm glad to see that most people seem to be on my side
But it did occur to me that the problem for Rein might not be the Wii's capability, but more it's audience. If they're assuming that 90% of their audience is either kids or OAPs, he has plenty of reason to think they won't be interested in a typical Epic title. That way there would be no money in it for them. Of course the flipside of that is presumably it'd also be possible to do a crappy mini-game thing on UE3 just as you could a home-made job.
Maybe we should all email Epic to say: "We are Wii gamers. We are between 18 and 65. We like killing things brutally and without remorse. We need a decent engine which shows that the Wii is a valid 8th-Gen format. There is a guaranteed market because no other bugger is doing it. Please help us out." Maybe after a few hundred emails they'd start to get the point
After leaving this thread alone for a couple of days, I'm glad to see that most people seem to be on my side
But it did occur to me that the problem for Rein might not be the Wii's capability, but more it's audience. If they're assuming that 90% of their audience is either kids or OAPs, he has plenty of reason to think they won't be interested in a typical Epic title. That way there would be no money in it for them. Of course the flipside of that is presumably it'd also be possible to do a crappy mini-game thing on UE3 just as you could a home-made job.
Maybe we should all email Epic to say: "We are Wii gamers. We are between 18 and 65. We like killing things brutally and without remorse. We need a decent engine which shows that the Wii is a valid 8th-Gen format. There is a guaranteed market because no other bugger is doing it. Please help us out." Maybe after a few hundred emails they'd start to get the point
That Company who said those things are nothing but graphics junkies, I bet there meetings to discuss new games and stuff just contain new ideas to bit map levels and add a few more frames per second to a game, if thats innovation and the way they see the 360 and PS3 developing towards then I would rather be a Nintnedo fan boy by just owning a Wii and DS!!!
What Rein is saying is that if Epic spent money creating an engine for the Wii then they wouldn't have enough studios to sell it to to make it worth while. Studios pay for Epic's engines as they look stunning. As the Wii isn't about graphics it would be pointless to develop an engine in pursuit of this. There is nothing slagging off the Wii here and this comment was probably pulled from another interview and appears out of place on it's own.
Anyway, as most of you have stated the Wii doesn't need an Epic Engine. So that's exactly why Rein has no interest in creating one. The lack of powerful third party titles is nothing to do with the lack of graphic-busting engines being built for the machine.
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) consoles, and that's exactly why nobody is making games for it.
True but Nintendo would get a cut of the profits anyway with licensing, etc. It's time for Nintendo to start "pimping" developers. 
+ developer with great game 
