Rockstar has issued an official statement following this morning's decision by the BBFC not rate the revised version (read that as toned down) of Manhunt 2.
"We are continuing to appeal the British Board of Film Classification's (BBFC) decision to deny the edited version of Manhunt 2 an 18+ certificate and thereby ban its release in the United Kingdom. The changes necessary in order to publish the game in Britain are unacceptable to us and represent a setback for video games.
"The BBFC allows adults the freedom to decide for themselves when it comes to horror in movies and we think adults should be similarly allowed to decide for themselves when it comes to horror in video games, such as Manhunt 2."
Who the hell do they think they are! This is an outrage and i totally feel for Rockstar on this one. Something must be done about this before the situation gets out of hand. They are so obviously just victimising the games industry as movies do not undergo this kind of big brother scrutiny, man, time for a revolution i think!!!
I think it sets a dangerous precedent. At this rate, we'll end up worse than Germany, where it seems every other game is banned or heavily altered to pass the censors... I have no interest in the game at all, but being over 18, and having someone else deciding whether I can or cannot play a game is fairly shocking.
The game is going to be released in the US, and they don't even have a legally-binding age certificate attached to the game!
The whole purpose of the VSC certificates on games is to make sure that children aren't exposed to adult content within games... so why do we not get the game released over here, but the US get it...?
This just generally seems childish to me - the BBFC need to grow up and stop being censor nazis. :/
I think it sets a dangerous precedent. At this rate, we'll end up worse than Germany, where it seems every other game is banned or heavily altered to pass the censors... I have no interest in the game at all, but being over 18, and having someone else deciding whether I can or cannot play a game is fairly shocking.
Nonsense! There's a very long way to go before we have it anywhere near as bad as the Germans... From what I remember they can't have any blood in a game whatsoever (correct me if I'm wrong); and definitely no Nazi insignia anywhere (basically rules out every WW2 games). There was even talk at one point of a law that pretty much banned the activity of playing violent games.
We're actually very lucky to have a regulator that is as balanced as the BBFC... From what I can see 'banning' MH2 was a one-off. Other games that have received equal amounts of negative attention from the gutter press have still been released uncut (e.g. Bully). So there's basically nothing to worry about...
You people should all consider a career in tabloid journalism. You're very good at blowing things out of all proportion. MH2 is never going to be considered as a pinnacle of the art... so no great loss IMO.
Good. I'm sick and tired of reading how this is blow to the industry and we gamers are missing out on an major experience. Sounds like magical PR bulls**t to me and I no longer have any interest in the game.
The way almost everyone reacts you'd think gamers in general were psychotic gore-loving demented f**wits.
Make some proper games Rockstar. That sell on gameplay not hype and sensationalism.
Good. I'm sick and tired of reading how this is blow to the industry and we gamers are missing out on an major experience. Sounds like magical PR bulls**t to me and I no longer have any interest in the game.
The way almost everyone reacts you'd think gamers in general were psychotic gore-loving demented f**wits.
Make some proper games Rockstar. That sell on gameplay not hype and sensationalism.
Well said. I honestly think that the BBFC made a good call. Maybe the game did push it a bit too far.
There's got to be other ideas for games than killing people in more and more gruesome ways.
Seems like the BBFC have made a rod for their backs and are going to have to wear it no matter what. A dangerous precedent and one that seems to target Rockstar, whether you like their games or loathe them.
I personally think they are making an example here because they know this is the best game to do it with because of the first games notoriety.
Even if this game was absoloute s**t to play and look at it would still sell bucket loads beacause of the hype.
Think of all the bad things happening around the UK with guns and knives and young people at the moment and you can begin to understand why they want to make an example of this sort of thing and this is the best game to do it with because everyone knows Manhunt.
However i am not saying that it is totally right, as a 27 year old gamer i want to play this game and i feel i should be able to (un-edited). Im just saying i can see why they are doing it with this game. It also may go higher up than BBFC ie. government but now were entering conspiracy theory teritory arent we.
I don't like censorship at all, but the industry is guilty too. By flat out refusing adult rated games for the US the console manufacturers are sending the message that gaming is for kids.
*hopes PC gaming will outgrow the censored consoles*
R* aka R-t**ts, are always looking for ways to get their games banned or in the bloody media, and yawn yet again ffs!! Yep the ping-pong sh1t was different but only because Bill paid them a "few dollars more" for an exclusive...yeah we all know that the no-brainer numpties buy your games BECAUSE of their controversary but how about a quality title that doesn't need to go before the BBFC ybow's!
I trust the BBFC and I would like more info on their decision before condemning them, they very rarely ban any games, and from what I've read of Manhunt 2, the violence which the player controls does seem unwarranted. Adult Only ratings are generally shirked by console manufacturers because they want a family friendly image...having adult only rated games on your console platform could suggest your console is not "mainstream", and people may avoid it...I personally despise this kind of logic.
Manhunt 2 is getting far too much press attention, I think they should now ban reporting on the subject, it's getting very boring.
As an older gamer - really crusty at 35 years old I kinda feel they are right. I know, I know its all so unfair but believe me for some of the younger crowd here shoting for there rights (and the very small child shouting gay - omg grow up you idiot) your views may change when you see it from a older perspective. It true and it will happen get over it.
What you have here is a group of old guys in suits who couldent care less about games or your rights they just want to make money, lots of it. The same creepy buggers who sell sell rap songs about killing people because of there sexuality or glorifying sexual crimes like rape and then deny all responsibility for any harm caused blaming society they they have helped shape.
Im sorry to be so heavy but games like this are nasty and unpleasant no crime in itself however, they banned it because it had no redeeming features, nothing its just violent crap without merit.
For those screaming for the right to play it I am sorry I dont see any weighty arguments. For every one who posts about there freedom or right to play stab the mad person games I could argue that on the other side children and society deserve to be protected from this type crap - thats there right as much as yours.
Okay you can say its got an 18 certificate, so what its a style of game that should not be made. Its just nasty and violent.
Please also dont fall for Rockstars hype let them fight there own battles - if you want to fight for something fight for the brave people in Burma or the starving in this world not for some old men who just want to make money peddling violent porn for teenagers.
Im a bit worried by this there are bunch of people who proberly were around when the tv was invented telling me what i can and cant play.. I think im adult enuff to decide for myself..
there also is the consideration regardless of if im adult enuff to play it parents need to stop purchasing these types of games for there children we all know they do regardless of age rating so that doesn't help the cause something that needs dealing with..
On a last note i hope to god that none of the BBFC read any of these posts on here as even i think maybe there doing the right thing some people really not helping give a good impression with the childish comments..
If they can ban this then what will they ban next? Just think of all the games where the only way you interact with them is through a gun. You could argue that a game like Halo3 is pure gun-porn, and as such is a danger to society.
I've been gaming since way back in the days of NES and before and I'd have to say that there have always been O.T.T. games (anyone remember moonstone?) Thing is, I'm 28 and while I have no interest in manhunt I do object to the BBFC deciding if I'm adult enough to play a fictional game, I could legally get p**sed and start a fight at 18 but I can't play a game? and by the way BBFC is the British Board of FILM Classification, don't see the word "video" or "game" anywhere in that title!
My point is if I'm old enough to make "adult decisions" let ME make the decision!
For those screaming for the right to play it I am sorry I dont see any weighty arguments. For every one who posts about there freedom or right to play stab the mad person games I could argue that on the other side children and society deserve to be protected from this type crap - thats there right as much as yours.
I dont have any intrest in this game to be honest, but I am intrested in what this means to the industry as a whole. The effective banning of this game takes away our right to choose what we watch/play, and that gets to me. I feel they take a harder view on the games industry because they have the view it's "For Kids", they are not this hard on films . . . I mean they let "Hostel" be released and that is just over the top sick!!! (Sorry if I offend anyone there,lol).
As for Pikachu's view of protecting children & society, that surely is the job of parents, they wouldnt buy their kids Porn, or indeed let them watch films like "Hostel". Why should people have their choices taken away because of irresponsible parenting!
The BBFC, per my understanding, have not refused this game as a matter of "we are not adult enough". To think of this as an age issue is to miss the point. The game has no premise ther than killing people in as gory & disgusting a way as possible, where is the game in that? If a film was released that had no story but say was just a series of shorts about people walking around hacking people to death do you think it'd get a rating? Of course it wouldn't and frankly if i ever lived in society were that was acceptable i would despair. Rockstar are trying to release utter tripe that has no redeeming feature other than it's controversial & i for one applaud that they will not make money off it in this country.
The BBFC, per my understanding, have not refused this game as a matter of "we are not adult enough". To think of this as an age issue is to miss the point. The game has no premise ther than killing people in as gory & disgusting a way as possible, where is the game in that? If a film was released that had no story but say was just a series of shorts about people walking around hacking people to death do you think it'd get a rating? Of course it wouldn't and frankly if i ever lived in society were that was acceptable i would despair. Rockstar are trying to release utter tripe that has no redeeming feature other than it's controversial & i for one applaud that they will not make money off it in this country.
Yes they do create films like that. There are countless slasher films out there. Also ever heard of Bum Fights? That gets passed and all they are doing is paying a bum to go around to actualy - not just special effects or something - But really steal, fight and be a general tosser to the normal public.
This game has not been banned due to content IMO. Read any review and they say the content is not any worse than you will se in most games out there. But it also has a god story holding it all together. This has been banned due to the Manhunt name. I seriously believe if it was named something else it would have been passed. The BBFC would have got loads of parents screaming at them if they released the game. Gamers are just easier to fight against as we arent as vocal and arent considered as important as these parents. Also from the above posts I can see that most of the gamers dont really care that our pastime is being creatively stiffled. Even some supporting it. Its just the easier battle for BBFC thats all.
Anybody that is pro censorship can suck my big fat cheesy dick.
SEE! its these kind of comments that belittle the industry! The BBFC feel it is still too violent, fair enough, there are some people out there regardless of wether they are adults or not that dont want to see this kinda stuff and having the BBFC rating, telling them what the game consists of is crucial to them.
It's not nesessarily censorship, its the factor that the whole game is based around random unpravoked killing, which can get over the top and i can totally sympathise with BOTH R* and BBFC, they are both doing thier jobs.
The BBFC, per my understanding, have not refused this game as a matter of "we are not adult enough". To think of this as an age issue is to miss the point. The game has no premise ther than killing people in as gory & disgusting a way as possible, where is the game in that? If a film was released that had no story but say was just a series of shorts about people walking around hacking people to death do you think it'd get a rating? Of course it wouldn't and frankly if i ever lived in society were that was acceptable i would despair. Rockstar are trying to release utter tripe that has no redeeming feature other than it's controversial & i for one applaud that they will not make money off it in this country.
Yes they do create films like that. There are countless slasher films out there. Also ever heard of Bum Fights? That gets passed and all they are doing is paying a bum to go around to actualy - not just special effects or something - But really steal, fight and be a general tosser to the normal public.
This game has not been banned due to content IMO. Read any review and they say the content is not any worse than you will se in most games out there. But it also has a god story holding it all together. This has been banned due to the Manhunt name. I seriously believe if it was named something else it would have been passed. The BBFC would have got loads of parents screaming at them if they released the game. Gamers are just easier to fight against as we arent as vocal and arent considered as important as these parents. Also from the above posts I can see that most of the gamers dont really care that our pastime is being creatively stiffled. Even some supporting it. Its just the easier battle for BBFC thats all.
There's a difference between a bum fight and somebody getting their head hacked off. And as for slasher films give me a few on general release to the public that contain no story but just feature someone walking around indiscriminately killing people. That person must also not be brought to justice by the end as there not in Manhunt. And sorry but it's got a story tacked on the side to try & make it more acceptable & it's about walking around executing people... maybe i miss the point but to me this is just rubbish and i couldn't give less of a sh@t that it's not coming out. Saves me the bother of ignoring it.
A very sad day for gaming. What the BBFC are saying is that games are for kids by banning a game like Manhunt 2 - particulary when the thing has actually been censored.
Are you really this stupid? A "sad day"? All games are for kids? So you've played it then, what is it like? Let me guess, s**t like the first one. Am I close?
What now for future violent games like the Resident Evils, Silent Hills and Soldier of Fortunes of this world?
Nice argument - mentioning games that have made it past the censors.
Those games have justified their content with a reasonable story. This game, according to the BBFC, is the equivalent of a snuff movie. You lot still haven't managed to grasp this. Read JohnWalker's post again.
If they can ban this then what will they ban next? Just think of all the games where the only way you interact with them is through a gun. You could argue that a game like Halo3 is pure gun-porn, and as such is a danger to society.
Nah, you're looking at it the wrong way round. How many games has the BBFC actually banned over the years?
Apparently the last game to be banned was Carmageddon, TEN YEARS AGO...
I've been gaming since way back in the days of NES and before and I'd have to say that there have always been O.T.T. games (anyone remember moonstone?) Thing is, I'm 28 and while I have no interest in manhunt I do object to the BBFC deciding if I'm adult enough to play a fictional game, I could legally get p**sed and start a fight at 18 but I can't play a game? and by the way BBFC is the British Board of FILM Classification, don't see the word "video" or "game" anywhere in that title!
My point is if I'm old enough to make "adult decisions" let ME make the decision!
I think you'll find that would actually be illegal... in fact technically you can be arrested just for being p**sed in a public place (or in fact taking a p**s in a public place - though the two often go together).
This idea that we're free to do whatever we want to do... you people are living in a dreamworld! In the grand scheme of things the banning of a purile video-game is a drop in the ocean. If you were all as mature as you claim, you'd f**king grow up and stop whinging like little children. Someone already mentioned Burma - now that's a totalitarian state - sure we have to put up with some nanny-state intervention here, but you morons don't know how lucky you are.
As for 'Bumfights'... I guess whoever brought that up is either an idiot or not from the UK. I don't believe it got a rating in this country [in fact it was banned from video release. Sure you can buy it on import from the yanks, but that's not saying much really is it...
I think it sets a dangerous precedent. At this rate, we'll end up worse than Germany, where it seems every other game is banned or heavily altered to pass the censors... I have no interest in the game at all, but being over 18, and having someone else deciding whether I can or cannot play a game is fairly shocking.
EXACTLY. The point isn't "it's too violent" the point is that they are making the decision of what we can and can't have. Or atleast trying to. I don't care about this game at all. But the fact they are choosing what we shouldn't have is a problem. And to all those calling the people bashing BBFC immature, you can't deny that they're right.
If they can ban this then what will they ban next? Just think of all the games where the only way you interact with them is through a gun. You could argue that a game like Halo3 is pure gun-porn, and as such is a danger to society.
Nah, you're looking at it the wrong way round. How many games has the BBFC actually banned over the years?
Apparently the last game to be banned was Carmageddon, TEN YEARS AGO...
Banning only two games doesn't mean they haven't been trying, it just means they've only managed it twice. But the more they ban the easier it will be for them to ban more in the future.
If it were any company other than Rockstar, I'd feel more agitated. They've set out to get a game that will garner headlines just as they always* do and lo! Headline.
Has there been any explanation as to what the BBFC specifically still have against the game?
As for the knee jerk reaction from the more excitable members of the forums, well isn't that the kind of reaction we condemn the Daily Mail readers for? When you respond without thinking, you're no better than Them, especially if you resort to childish name calling.
*strokes grey beard, adjusts monocle*
If you want to be taken seriously, deal with the issues seriously.
Normally on a gamers site like this we'd all be right behind the publisher of the game whenever an issue like this comes up. The fact that we're so split even on these boards gives an indication of how this game would be received in wider society.
For all the kids on here who are shouting "who are they to dictate what I play" - get real. Nothings changed. The goal posts haven't moved. Society always has and always will censore stuff that is judged to have no benefit to it as a whole. Like it or not, boundaries have to set on what is acceptable. This game obviously overstepped the mark. It's no great loss to us as gamers.
Compared to films, the content we get in games is far more tame. If anyone has watched the violence in films such as Irreversible, or the more widely watched Kill Bill Vol.1 or the explict sex in films like Bais Moi or 9 Songs, youll know what I mean, and there are many, more extreme than these (Ichi the Killer?)
So why is there such up roar about games. There is very little sex in the games industry, although there is a huge amount of violence, I really dont see why this game should be refused release when films like "snuff" and "executions" were given certification.
I guess it's the interactivity option. In a movie, you're a passive observer but in a game you take an active hand.
At a remove obviously, but it's still you controlling the action.
It's the fine line between watching someone getting a kicking, and holding the kicker's coat.
Exactly. In film you watch and there's usually a context that explains why a character is driven to certain actions. This can be trivial and pointless - e.g. Creep - or it can be emotionally complex and compelling - e.g. Irreversible... but either way you are a passive observer. Interestingly the BBFC argue that film is actually more immersive than games, because the interactive nature of gaming is a constant reminder that the game isn't real..
From what I've read, and a conversation I had with them, the BBFC accept that killing is an almost inevitable part of games, and that in fact they don't see this as a major problem... Partly because games are not as immersive as film, but also because usually the killing happens in pursuit of a game orientated goal (even if this is simply getting to the end of a level). i.e. the killing happens not simply for the sake of killing, but as a means to an end (however trivial).
The problem they seem to have with MH2 is that the main focus/goal of the game seems to be killing people in the most gruesome way possible... and however much R* try to claim that there's another goal to the game this is not backed up in the content.
^ Some reasonable points... although personally, I am sick of gaming still being led by the belief that it is a childs pastime and that we need to protect children. I have been gaming all my life along with many of my friends and it has done no psychological damage or caused us to act out any violent acts whatsoever. It all comes back to that age old problem of a society that cannot come to terms with that fact that there will always be people who will do bad and terrible things. There are examples all the way through history, recent and long past. Various guises of media are a prime target, be it the written/spoken word, art, film, music and now video games (which carries the additional burden of the assumption that video games are exclusively for children).
There is some amount of irony there as it is various branches of the media (driven by an equally large variety of impetus (politics, government, money, expansion, power, etc) that is responsible for the firestorms of moral panics that seem to constantly flare up around the world (most notably in western civilisations) that blind people to the real reasons why person X goes out and beats some poor innocent to death. All through history the people in authority seek to simplify the motivations of such people and the terrible things they do. The authorities can't waste time and money explaining how and why something happened (something that can take years) not when the public as a whole is conditioned to be a knee jerk reactionary mob in general. So what do the power that be do, and what have they always done? Pass the buck and find a scapegoat, preferably one that would find it very hard to defend itself, for one reason or another. If you do want to simplify this discussion, it is a matter of censorship and whether you believe you should be allowed to make all your own choices or if you want a nanny state to hold your hand and tell you what is good and bad (and the consequences that go with both options). At the end of the day each persons life is made of an unimaginable number of intricately interwoven factors, and each and everyone of us reacts in our own individual way, which is further complicated by the fact that each of our reactions is influenced by an equally baffling number of current and past experiences. The way we are being treated is disgusting on the whole, everybody who wants this game released should email Rockstar with their support and the ratings boards with their disappointment. As gamers we should fight to have this game released as is. Let's make ourselves heard and show that we are sick of others telling us what we can and cannot play.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
