Valve Software boss Gabe Newell has slagged off PS3 calling it "a waste of everybody's time" in a latest attack on the console.
"Investing in the Cell, investing in the SPE gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created", Newell told Edge magazine.
"I don't think they're going to make money off their box. I don't think it's a good solution."
It's not the first time Newell has slammed PS3. Earlier in the year he called it "a total disaster on so many levels... I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted".
"I'd say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a do over", he said in January.
Despite his negative reactions to PS3, Newell says that he thinks PS3 owners who buy The Orange Box are going to be happy with their game experience and that EA - which is handling the PS3 version - will make it a good product.
"But I think it's harder to get it to the same standard as the 360 and PC versions", Newell said.
Y'know this is really sad. Sure the PS3 is selling quite poorly and Sony have dropped the ball so often it's hard to keep up, but the final comment about the 360 and PC version essentially being better (para-phrasing of course) is just another dev slagging off a console they have less vested interest in.
Were that not the case, they would've developed the PS3 version in-house.
I'll freely admit I can't stand Sony's Playstation brand, but it's with personal and well formed reason that I do so. I'm not a child who enjoys a good "my console's better than yours" argument. I just wish that developers would keep their opinions to themselves. It seems like every other week some key industry figure eschews any corporate responsibility and rather than discussing development issues intelligently, just resorts to moaning and swearing.
I wanna see some games using the graphics power, to be honest, one year later and i still havent seen anything amazing.
And killzone 2 dosent seem all that amazing in the graphics area....
Power wise the 360 and PS3 are capable of generating the same images (with PC's already laughing at both). PS3 will excel in things such as sound etc. However, that means that on multiformat releases developers would have to put extra work in for any difference to show on the PS3. As the multiformat releases show to date the PS3 versions are often worse then the 360 ones. Except Oblivion, as they spent extra time on the PS3 version. You've also got to remember that those developing for the PC should find it easier to port to the 360. Which is what may have happened in this instance.
I remember all the fanboy gloating over the "No money in Wii games engines" comments. Even though it was from only 1 high end developer who were actually saying it wouldnt be worth their while to downgrade their tools to produce Wii games, as opposed to "we dont like it and think it will fail".
This is a little different because more developers are slating the PS3 and applying the wait and see approach. The latter I always found annoying cause people wont buy the console if you dont make original games for it, right now the PS3 is getting inferior 360 ports.
Whereas thanks to its wealth of licences the Wii has Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, Into the Blue, Umbrella Chronicles and Mario Kart all on the way, with most out in the next 6 weeks, and lord knows how many other games in between and after on the Wii.
It makes one of the posters comments about the Wii becoming the next dreamcast as stupid as.....well, when he first said it.
I would love there to be a 'next Dreamcast' - one of my favourite ever consoles. When everyone in the first year at uni had new Xbox's and semi-new PS2's, i could always guarantee they would spend each evening before a night out playing Virtua Tennis shots, or Powerstone 2 shots....
I would love another Dreamcast - absolutely brilliant console - Sonic Adventure and MSR was the last time I saw
Well, the man's entitled to his well-informed and professional opinion.
Let's just hope for him that it doesn't come back and bite him on the bottom if the real talent at Sony (ie. The marketing department) actually wind up managing to sell a large number of the consoles to people who don't know any better over the next couple of years.
What a tit. Hes moaning because its not like a pc and has to learn a new way of doing things. Sony have alwasys done things their way. Exactly the same thing was said about the PS2.
Valve Software boss Gabe Newell has slagged off PS3 calling it "a waste of everybody's time" in a latest attack on the console.
WTH?
He goes on to say the console is a waste of time, but he is still going to waste his own time to develop for it... Does this guy have multiple personalities?
Newell says that he thinks PS3 owners who buy The Orange Box are going to be happy with their game experience
And at the end, he goes on to say, and I translate: All you who bought a PS3, who I belive to be idiots, well you should still buy my game...
But at the end of the day if the PS3 port is up to standard, (no frame problems/graphics problems compared to other two versions) I have no doubt its going to be a great game, and one that will be on my purchase list.
Because no matter what idiot made the title, if its a good game you should buy it and experience it in my opinion.
The fanboys seem to think that a developer should have to reinvent the wheel just to make a game they have already made for the 360 and PC. Sony screwed up on all levels thinking they were untouchable. Just because you make a console with an unusual processor doesn't make it a better console. Games cost big money to produce and having to spend more time figuring out a poorly selling consoles architecture would seem like a waste of money...because it is.
Well, the man's entitled to his well-informed and professional opinion.
Let's just hope for him that it doesn't come back and bite him on the bottom if the real talent at Sony (ie. The marketing department) actually wind up managing to sell a large number of the consoles to people who don't know any better over the next couple of years.
It could still happen...
Even if Sony does catch up (which I think is highly likely eventually), this still won't bite him in the ass as Valve's main platform is PC.
Gabe Newells words are a waste of everybodys time . We know you dont like the console already you fattie ,stop with it you are going to ruin the sales of the product your studio has developed on the plattform .
Some people ,as this guy ,just seem to hate a new arquitechture that forces them to study and work a bit .....they just want to keep working with the same architechtures and developing tools over and over again even when their limits are more and more clear .
Sounds like he's thinking in terms of multi-platform gaming TBH. I guess because the 360 is PowerPC based it means it's easier to port from that to a current PC rig, whereas with the Cell technology it requires a total rewrite. To do it properly anyway.
That means a developer would need one team for 360/PC and another exclusively for PS3. Not really cost-effective when you want to get games out to as many people as you can as quickly as possible.
His point is valid, even if the fanboys don't like it. He is not saying "the PS3 is feeble and rubbish" so much as he is saying "the PS3 archetecture is unique, and learning how to get the best out of it is not a worthwhile investment".
He might change his tune if the install base really picks up.
I think its pretty clear which side is better at knowing what the public want.
So on one side we have a guy who has made a living just regurgitating the same stuff over and over. On the other side we have a company who have sold over 250m gaming consoles and far more software than Newell could ever dream of.
At the end of the day the guy has his head stuck so far up Microsofts a** he has no idea what he's talking about. All he wants to do is make lazy ports of the same games over and over without bothering to try and make the most out of individual systems.
It will be funny to see him eat his words over the next few years because there are some upcoming titles on the PS3 that look far, far better than anything released on the 360.
I don't know why everyone is getting so upset about his comments. He has every right to state his opinion and if that happens to be that he thinks Sony have got the console design fundamentally wrong this generation then fine that's what he thinks!
He obviously believes that Sony would be far better served scrapping this machine and redesigning a new console if they want to compete this gen. As I say that's his opinion and time will tell. If he had said glowing comments about it I'm sure everyone would have been saying "he's the man!" etc.
What do you mean? Sony has had the worst marketing approach ever this generation. I agree on some points but I sort of imagine there would be more protection had this been someone talking about the Gamecube or Dreamcast. I think there is an odd mentality towards Sony because they came in as outsiders. People got protective over their 'teams' regardless of the details. I think when you look back Sony did what it needed to with the PSone and PS2 they both had strong titles for their age. developers criticised the Saturn for its complexity at the time... People jumped in to argue its technical merits based on some comments by Core Design who went on to develop their leading series exclusively for PSone.. then criticised the lack of Gamecube support... angered by high PS2 support due to sales. Yet justify the reverse when it goes up against a company they don't like. I think PS3 is in the postion it deserves to be right now. It does not fill a hole and it does nothing new. The support from Sony and third parties is lacking. This is in the hands of the company itself to sort out and they only have themselves to blame.
sony will sell millions of ps3's. they may have made some mistakes in their startegy lately but this will not stop such a huge powerhouse that is sony succeeding. The new Ł299 price tage will go down again in a few months (imo before christmas) because they will not let this consol fail.
I love both ps3 and 360 and have both machines and respect what both Microsoft and Sony have done to the video game market in the last few years. My reaction to this nob jockeys comment is this!!!! But really i am embarrassed on his behalf. I hate it when people like this come out and slam a machine without any reason nor valid point which he had none. I mean we could all slag of steam and the rip of unnecessary prices,but that would actually be a good point instead of slamming a machine on the bases of saying its a waste of time. All sony's console have had success including the ps3 which will only get better with their key titles.
It's a bit of a fanboy comment but it's not like it's the first time. If he doesn't like it fair enough but if he hated it that much then why let EA bring out his game for it.
Don't think he'll be bothering much when he's sitting somewhere throwing c**ktails down his neck on his new yacht! Asshole!
It's just another negative opinion. People said the same thing about Saturn and look at all the excellent titles on it. The PSOne had some great titles mind you but the Saturn was massively overlooked due to the layout of the hardware. The dreamcast was easy to develop for but still failed (Just no pleasing some people).
There is no doubt Sony will catch up with the amount of comments I see daily about the price and if it goes down. I don't really care about what machine is in the lead though, to me it's all about the games to keep me entertained.
To all those people that are still insisting on spreading the myth that Sony have 'missed the point' or are 'struggling' I would simply remind them that the PS3 is selling faster than the PS1 and PS2 did and outside the US its also selling faster than the 360 did and that's with a lack of AAA games and with a high price. With a price drop and the huge line up it has for next year sales are going to get bigger and bigger. On the other hand there isn't a single game due out on the 360 next year or even in development that you could pick out as a system seller. There are over 100m PS2 owners who haven't upgrade to a next gen console yet. If the 360 is so much more attractive than the PS3 why haven't they bought one. Why has the 360 only shipped 2m this year?
The PS3 is by far the more desired console of the two, its just at the moment there is no reason for most PS2 owners to buy one yet. The continued support of the PS2 is obviously a factor in that but that continued support also means that in total Sony are selling more consoles in the US and every other region every month than Microsoft and are therefore increasing their market share at a faster rate. Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken, LittleBigPLanet and Killzone 2 are some very big reasons why 2008 will be all about Sony and why a lot of comments made over the last year will start to look very dumb indeed.
I remember all the fanboy gloating over the "No money in Wii games engines" comments. Even though it was from only 1 high end developer who were actually saying it wouldnt be worth their while to downgrade their tools to produce Wii games, as opposed to "we dont like it and think it will fail".
This is a little different because more developers are slating the PS3 and applying the wait and see approach. The latter I always found annoying cause people wont buy the console if you dont make original games for it, right now the PS3 is getting inferior 360 ports.
Whereas thanks to its wealth of licences the Wii has Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, Into the Blue, Umbrella Chronicles and Mario Kart all on the way, with most out in the next 6 weeks, and lord knows how many other games in between and after on the Wii.
It makes one of the posters comments about the Wii becoming the next dreamcast as stupid as.....well, when he first said it.
I would love there to be a 'next Dreamcast' - one of my favourite ever consoles. When everyone in the first year at uni had new Xbox's and semi-new PS2's, i could always guarantee they would spend each evening before a night out playing Virtua Tennis shots, or Powerstone 2 shots....
I would love another Dreamcast - absolutely brilliant console - Sonic Adventure and MSR was the last time I saw
yes another dreamcast, shenmue 3, oh joy!!! dreamcast was hugely underated, it had bags of power and potential and was only pushed out due to aggresive marketing by sony for the ps2, ive still got my dreamcast, and games looked far better on the dreamcast than the ps2, dead or alive 2 was one such game, but sega realy bought everything to the table with the dreamcast, fishing rods, maracas, steering wheels, vmu's. ahh to dream, come on sega, do us a favour DREAMCAST 2 !!!!!
Once again, Gabe Newell is the voice of sense. You don't have to be technologically versed to realise that the PS3 is an ill-conceived shambles of a machine.
Whether or not he is right to say what he's said is probably irrelevant. However, his comments about 'hating the architecture' could possibly be backed up by the fact that Capcom have scrapped a PS3 game because of high development costs.
The game is Monster Hunter 3, I know nothing of the game personally but apparently the 1st and 2nd game sold 4.5m copies and were exclusive to PS2 and PSP.
Fair does to the man, he's not afraid to speak his mind. He's pretty much spot on anyway. Sony are an arrogant bunch of SOB's and think they can just throw out whatever hardware they want, stick the PS brand on it and it will fly off the shelves. Well wrong Sony. You need to take care of the developers and build the hardware around them, which will make it easier for them to develop for the console and help their talent and creativity see the light of day. 360 and Wii are too far ahead of PS3 for it to catch up now so like Gabe said, they may as well ditch it as its just been one joke after another. Also, to those that are saying he's a fanboy, no, you.re the fanboy's, which is why you are interperating his comments in that manner.
Even if Newells comments are true and the PS3 is a complete waste of space, I don't think it will stop Sony from selling shedloads of them and eventually taking the market (yet again).
For instance, I was talking to my nephew the other day and mentioned the PS3 price cuts. He immediated said "Wow! I gotta get one!" When I pointed out that some develoeprs had said that the machine was a bit of a dog and most of the games are just poor ports of already pretty good 360 games, he just replied with "I don't care! I've always had a Playstation, so I want a PS3".
So I think the PS3 will eventually kick off due to the fact that SOny could re-release the Atari Jaguar as the "Playstation Retro" and people would still buy it because it's got the Playstation brand on it... ERegardless of whether it's any good or not.
Gabe Newell is just a Microsoft Fanboy and is too lazy to want to learn the additional skills needed to create NexGen games.
This guy has been paid to say these things I reckon, or maybe he gets free Office Pro for free lol
'Nextgen'? Only idiots use that phrase seriously. If its next generation how can I be playing it now?
Half Life was an amazing advancement when it came out. Much more than any PS3 title yet. Anyway, he develops for the PC which is the most advanced gaming system at the end of the day, whether you can afford to it admit or not. So why should he have to put up with hardware that, although powerful, is currently hard to design for? What he is saying is that Sony have put together a machine with the best of everything and not actually thought whether it'd all work together. Thankfully for Sony they have a massive fanbase and so the developers will have to design for it whether they like it or not.
Microsoft make PCs. Sony make walkmans. Sega make games.
Guys its all very well saying " Its a waste of every body's time " or " its a disaster on many levels"..
"Investing in the Cell, investing in the SPE gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created"
Granted the PS3 may be a *unt to develop for, but wasnt the Ps2 as well and look at its success. Id take his opinions with a pinch of salt.
If his opinion is soo right, then how come prestigious devs like Free radical, Capcom, Sega etc etc are all developing for the PS3. These dev houses have released more games on other platforms than Valve and have more experience, surely if the PS3 was a waste of time, they would be bothering... which makes his point Null and pointless.
Seems like Gabe is a little short sighted. Having a AAA IP like half life dosent make you the f**king end all and be all of game development and opinion but i guess thats what he might think.....constructive criticism from somebody who didnt construct anything hardware related to the ps3.
Even if Newells comments are true and the PS3 is a complete waste of space, I don't think it will stop Sony from selling shedloads of them and eventually taking the market (yet again).
For instance, I was talking to my nephew the other day and mentioned the PS3 price cuts. He immediated said "Wow! I gotta get one!" When I pointed out that some develoeprs had said that the machine was a bit of a dog and most of the games are just poor ports of already pretty good 360 games, he just replied with "I don't care! I've always had a Playstation, so I want a PS3".
So I think the PS3 will eventually kick off due to the fact that SOny could re-release the Atari Jaguar as the "Playstation Retro" and people would still buy it because it's got the Playstation brand on it... ERegardless of whether it's any good or not.
This is exactly what will happen. Gaming became 'cool' with the release of such games as the GTA series on the PS2. Even girls (shock! horror!) began to play games around this time. Lads mags picked up gaming and everything rolled from there. Sony have done very well at building brand loyalty, even before they began making consoles. I loved the PS1, didn't mind the PS2 but am not very keen on the PS3. I may eventually pick one up as there does look to be a lot of exclusives coming out. There will be a lot for the 360 as well. MS won't annouce them yet as their console is already on a roll with games coming out. No need to play the 2008 hand yet for them. As gamers though we can enjoy the best of both worlds.
One point though Sony: update the f***ing pad! It's awful!
I must say, I'm offended by the ignorance the the PS3 flavour of fanboy that you find around these parts.
The developer of one of the highest rated and best games that's gonna appear on their system for at least the next six months tells it like it is, and they start the name-calling...
If that's their attitude, then somewhere deep down even they obviously know they've wasted their money on dead hardware.
look nothing no one says or does is gonna matter, Sony can fcuk over as many people as they like price wise & hardware, the developers can hate it. but as long as there are people who dont care about games & just want a "PS3" then who gives a flying fcuk.... im soooo tired of this sh1t i could throw up.
Forgive me if I am wrong but the PS2 is a pig to develop for as well according to many developers a while back.
yes m8, completely.
They still developed for it because it would guarantee more sales as the PS2 was a very popular machine. Developers will still develop for the PS3, regardless of difficulties, as they are the market leaders. I'm pretty sure the PS2 and DS are outselling all these 'next-gen' consoles anyway.
If his opinion is soo right, then how come prestigious devs like Free radical, Capcom, Sega etc etc are all developing for the PS3. These dev houses have released more games on other platforms than Valve and have more experience, surely if the PS3 was a waste of time, they would be bothering... which makes his point Null and pointless.
Whilst I'm not disputing what you say... see my earlier post where I pointed out that Capcom announced today that they've dropped the PS3 version of one of their games due to high dev costs.
It's only one game, but it's one that's previously been exclusive to PS2 and PSP.
That really doesnt matter, Nintendo are the market leaders in the here and now. The past doesnt count for Sh#t in the gaming business. Ps3 will still get alot of exclusives but I dont think it'll be as many as the past.
What? Sony are clearly NOT the market leaders anymore. Nintendo own that crown by a country mile!
The Wii may have sold a lot in the past year, but how many PS2's were sold compared to the Gamecube? How many PS1's sold against the N64?
Yes, Sony were the market leader...now they're not. What's your point?
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
To me this just sounds like Newell Trying to defend his team because they couldnt develop well on PS3
So they gave it to EA? Only joking! Ho-ho-ho! The PS3 does appear to be more difficult to program for than the other consoles. However, I'm sure that won't stop the PS3 2008 Xmas Massacre that will take place. Ł299 now? Wait until next xmas and you probably couldn't afford not to. They might even release a good pad just for sh!ts & giggles.
Someone pointed out that the PS2 was hard to develop for & yet Valve still made games for it? which is incorrect the only valve developed game on PS2 is Half life which was actually produced by gearbox software & published by EA.
Valve are primarily PC devs & 360 being so close in terms of technology to a pc is an advantage as it saves them a lot of cash on having to re-do a lot of the game to get the best results. The PS3 version of orange box is not being developed by Valve as the 360 version has been EA have another team working on the PS3 version which is why it is taking longer to complete than the 360 version.
His comments are valid because I bet their are a number of other devs out there who feel the same way & after investing a lot of time & cash in researching the "potential" of Cell & spe's etc it will be time for another generation of even more powerful consoles & all that time & cash invested in getting the best out of PS3 would have been wasted as most publishers shift focus to the new machines, Pc's are already surpassing the PS3 & 360 & with the 360 being in its second full year you know that there will be talk of the "next" xbox in about 2 years time or sooner as rumours will start & people will talk etc.
Sony shot themselves in both feet this time they could have released a console with comparable specs to the 360 or even better without Cell & made it more developer friendly & probably cheaper to make & they chose in their arrogance to go for Cell & Bluray & make a very hard to develop for (when compared to the competition) & over priced console & now they are having to play catch up.
What? Sony are clearly NOT the market leaders anymore. Nintendo own that crown by a country mile!
The Wii may have sold a lot in the past year, but how many PS2's were sold compared to the Gamecube? How many PS1's sold against the N64?
Yes, Sony were the market leader...now they're not. What's your point?
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
I understand what you saying but Nintendo were the original market leaders in the console war
funny. everyone's championing Gabe for offering his grossly negative Sony comment; but a few weeks ago David Jaffe said that Halo 3 was "just okay" and he got slammed for his neutral opinion. but let me desist, before i'm labeled a fanboy.
i'm no developer. it could be that the PS3 epitomizes every negative aspect of system hardware design in gaming history. PS3 has hardly any good games, and most multi-platform releases suffer on the system (be it inferior graphics, or delays). however, no amount of public mud-slinging can hide the fact that, in the hands of a dedicated developer, the system is capable of graphics unprecedented in home consoles. Half-Life 2, though fun (trust me, i got Orange Box on my 360 last night and am loving it), it hardly stands favorably next to PS3 or 360's heavyhitters in the graphics department. Lair, Heavenly Sword, Killzone 2, Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Heavy Rain all prove that. and as a gamer, thats what matters most to me, not some developers opinion, be it positive or negative.
sony will sell millions of ps3's. they may have made some mistakes in their startegy lately but this will not stop such a huge powerhouse that is sony succeeding. The new Ł299 price tage will go down again in a few months (imo before christmas) because they will not let this consol fail.
Sadly to say my friend THEY (as in Sony) can't do anything about the PS3 failing. It's we, the consumers, who decide what fails or not. If consumers don't want a PS3 then they'll invest there money somewhere else.
sony will sell millions of ps3's. they may have made some mistakes in their startegy lately but this will not stop such a huge powerhouse that is sony succeeding. The new Ł299 price tage will go down again in a few months (imo before christmas) because they will not let this consol fail.
Sadly to say my friend THEY (as in Sony) can't do anything about the PS3 failing. It's we, the consumers, who decide what fails or not> If consumers don't want a PS3 then they'll invest there money somewhere else.
Judging by the buzz of the price drop they want one alright and they're doing some pretty good deals on the 60GB right now.
I'm happy with what I have at the moment but I can see a few PS3s flying off the shelves this weekend.
A lot of people will be buying it because it has Playstation on it. I have a friend that has one and when asked his reason for buying it he simply replied "It's the most powerful right now innit." Last time around he had a PS2 because it was popular.
I on the other hand have gone with whatever system(s) have the games that I wanna play and brand has nothing to do with it. I've always ended up with the second best selling but like I say numbers don't mean much to me as long as there are enough games to keep me playing.
@ atrimus So what matters most to you is graphics? Thats a very shallow view...
In reply to previous posters, PS2 was also a bitch to develop for but they HAD to develop for it as it was the market leader by miles. Now we come to the present day and 360 and Wii are nip and tuck for the #1 position. Both are very different consoles. Developers can make high end games on 360 and reach a userbase of around 12 million while the smaller developers can actually afford to release their games on Wii and take risks, once again reaching a userbase of over 12 million. Both formats are easy to develop for. Now with PS3 you have a console that is extremely hard to develop for, isn't capable of recieveing ports, high production costs and a userbase of around 4-5 million. What would you do as a developer? I think the decision is an easy one to make...
As for people saying PS3 will sell bucket loads at christmas, what world are you living in? Loads of former PS2 owners have converted to 360 or plan to. You just need to ask any teenager and all the talk is about 360 where as last gen all you heard was PS2. The drones that buy PS3 based on brand name have already done so and the one's with brains that actually look at the software will spend their money else where.
I have looked at this guys comments from another perspective. I know their are brand lovers. But to be honest this is a marketing ploy so we all talk about it and think of valve!! (Any publicity is good pubilicity.
Interestingly enough I would not know how hard programming is but... these guys have been working on pc's pretty much all their lives..that leads me to think do they know any other way of programming?
Is it me or is there so much more politics in the game industry these days. Never got this in the SNES, Amiga & Megadrive days? Or perhaps I was naive!
To all those people that are still insisting on spreading the myth that Sony have 'missed the point' or are 'struggling' I would simply remind them that the PS3 is selling faster than the PS1 and PS2 did and outside the US its also selling faster than the 360 did and that's with a lack of AAA games and with a high price. With a price drop and the huge line up it has for next year sales are going to get bigger and bigger. On the other hand there isn't a single game due out on the 360 next year or even in development that you could pick out as a system seller. There are over 100m PS2 owners who haven't upgrade to a next gen console yet. If the 360 is so much more attractive than the PS3 why haven't they bought one. Why has the 360 only shipped 2m this year?
The PS3 is by far the more desired console of the two, its just at the moment there is no reason for most PS2 owners to buy one yet. The continued support of the PS2 is obviously a factor in that but that continued support also means that in total Sony are selling more consoles in the US and every other region every month than Microsoft and are therefore increasing their market share at a faster rate. Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken, LittleBigPLanet and Killzone 2 are some very big reasons why 2008 will be all about Sony and why a lot of comments made over the last year will start to look very dumb indeed.
How about grand theft auto(exclusive downloadable content on the 360) fable 2, and whos says final fantasy is ps3 only ive not heard that as always another blind ps3 owner. the only game that would intrest me would be killzone 2 and thats only because it was the 1st online shooter that i played (gamer tag back then was darthwader if any1 remembers me) at the end of the day its about time sony lost control of the console market as they have had there big fat heads stuck up there even fatter bottoms to long
Let's face it, the PS3 is a dog of a machine. It came to the party late and all the women were already taken by Microsoft and Nintendo.
The other two machines at the moment is where it's at. The PS3 isn't matching the quality of what's coming out on the others.
Sony didn't drop the ball, they completely lost the plot regarding the price and not releasing it in Europe on time.
At one point, people were saying how good a game Lair and Motorstorm were going to be. We then found out the truth and never looked back.
Sony will catch up in the end due to the people who have no clue about consoles (Parents) seeing the Sony name and thinking it's the greatest thing out there at Christmas. I feel sorry for those children if they haven't already got one of the other machines, they have missed out on the pinnacle of console gaming for the next two years.
At least they will be able to play their Blu Ray movies while others are playing Mass Effect.
To all those people that are still insisting on spreading the myth that Sony have 'missed the point' or are 'struggling' I would simply remind them that the PS3 is selling faster than the PS1 and PS2 did and outside the US its also selling faster than the 360 did and that's with a lack of AAA games and with a high price. With a price drop and the huge line up it has for next year sales are going to get bigger and bigger. On the other hand there isn't a single game due out on the 360 next year or even in development that you could pick out as a system seller. There are over 100m PS2 owners who haven't upgrade to a next gen console yet. If the 360 is so much more attractive than the PS3 why haven't they bought one. Why has the 360 only shipped 2m this year?
The PS3 is by far the more desired console of the two, its just at the moment there is no reason for most PS2 owners to buy one yet. The continued support of the PS2 is obviously a factor in that but that continued support also means that in total Sony are selling more consoles in the US and every other region every month than Microsoft and are therefore increasing their market share at a faster rate. Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken, LittleBigPLanet and Killzone 2 are some very big reasons why 2008 will be all about Sony and why a lot of comments made over the last year will start to look very dumb indeed.
If only all Sony marketing men could put together some blurb like this guy, even if it is all nonsense.
1. Alan Wake 2. Gears 2 (It will happen, promise) 3. Fable 2 4. Halo Wars 5. Ninja (feckin) Gaiden 2
What? Sony are clearly NOT the market leaders anymore. Nintendo own that crown by a country mile!
The Wii may have sold a lot in the past year, but how many PS2's were sold compared to the Gamecube? How many PS1's sold against the N64?
Yes, Sony were the market leader...now they're not. What's your point?
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
I understand what you saying but Nintendo were the original market leaders in the console war
Were they? I thought Sega won in the West and the PC Engine won in the East? I think it's just that Nintendo survived. It was more elimination than a deathmatch back then I guess.
Quite often regardless of who causes the surge in hardware sales... Good titles eventually gravitate to the highest selling format. Especially when you are on a pretty even playing field in terms of power. Sony is actually not doing badly in other areas...the PSP has hit a huge surge in sales since the release of Crisis Core and Monster Hunter. The PS2 is still selling exceptionally well. I think the PS3 will generate greater sales in future especially when it has titles to call its own Final Fantasy was its turning point against the stronger saturn in PSone days. I think it has let MS get too much of a lead and Wii is a different ball game altogether.... I think competition should benefit the whole industry MS will make sure they keep their 'current gen'(for the sake of the pedant) lead. They will pay for their mistakes. But Sony are hardly down and out.
I think something interesting someone mentioned earlier is how the PS2 struggled with slightly inferior Dreamcast ports early on like Crazy Taxi and Dead or Alive 2.....maybe this shows that a machine being difficult to program with to start off often has a lot more to show. I love my Dreamcast and still own it...but I think it was not long before PS2 proved to be a leap ahead of Sega's wonderful box. Although Shenmue is still a gobsmackingly beautiful game...remake them all as one...it will sell like hot cakes finally...although I must admit I have not bought that many hot cakes recently. The saddest thing is Sega never really recovered as a software company after that :/
What? Sony are clearly NOT the market leaders anymore. Nintendo own that crown by a country mile!
The Wii may have sold a lot in the past year, but how many PS2's were sold compared to the Gamecube? How many PS1's sold against the N64?
Yes, Sony were the market leader...now they're not. What's your point?
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
I understand what you saying but Nintendo were the original market leaders in the console war
Were they? I thought Sega won in the West and the PC Engine won in the East? I think it's just that Nintendo survived. It was more elimination than a deathmatch back then I guess.
Nintendo won overall. It was close between them and Sega in some territory. I'm no fanboy I've just looked into this due to past arguments
he latest issue of Computer Gaming World has an interview with Gabe Newell, Valve Software’s founder and managing director, in which the developer of Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike discusses various topics including the release date of Aftermath, Lost Coast and Day of the Defeat Source.
Gabe also had time so discuss Windows Vista, the next-generation operating system from Microsoft due out late next year, and the Xbox 360.
"Look, I spoke to some people at Microsoft, and as I said, I can't point to a single feature in Vista that I care about that solves problems for us at all. And I had the same conversation with the Xbox 360 guys. It's like, Xbox 360 doesn't make my life any better, and in fact, it makes it a lot worse, as you're telling me I can't count on having a hard drive." As you can see, Valve’s head honcho and former Microsoft employee isn’t happy about the fact that developers can’t rely on the Xbox 360 hard drive and he’s probably not the only developer who feels that way.
Make sure you pick up the latest issue of CGW, which hit stands next week. There are more interesting items in that interview, including Valve’s revelation that EA plans to offer a Steam-like service in the near future.
Obviously this guys opinion is very credible LMFAO.
guys check this video and tell me then that the Cell / Spes are problematic.
This demo was knocked out in over a week by 1 programmer and 2 artists. Sonys new Edge dev libraries shave lots of time off development hell..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O2YWumQNas
Gabes comments are rubbish, nothing more. Im sure you guys have all seen ratchet and Clank Future, yeah Ps3 is a load of crap Gabe.
The article that goes along with that video was from back in March and yet a developer like Capcom, who you called 'prestigious' has dropped one of their games stating that the PS3 is too costly to develop for.
One of the first things said in the video is that they used assets which were 'borrowed' from one of their London teams, so while some of that will have been done within the 2 weeks they said it took them it's certainly not the whole thing that took them only 2 weeks.
What? Sony are clearly NOT the market leaders anymore. Nintendo own that crown by a country mile!
The Wii may have sold a lot in the past year, but how many PS2's were sold compared to the Gamecube? How many PS1's sold against the N64?
Yes, Sony were the market leader...now they're not. What's your point?
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
I understand what you saying but Nintendo were the original market leaders in the console war
Were they? I thought Sega won in the West and the PC Engine won in the East? I think it's just that Nintendo survived. It was more elimination than a deathmatch back then I guess.
Nintendo won overall. It was close between them and Sega in some territory. I'm no fanboy I've just looked into this due to past arguments
I think it went something like - PC Engine outsold the NES in the East and the Megadrive outsold the SNES in the West, but overall Nintendo won. This was achieved with a diehard fanbase since back in the day that it has managed to turn to even in the dark times. I don't see why people want the Wii to fail. Nintendo are the sole surviving games company that develops consoles.
they main reason i got a ps3 was my 360 broke down and i smashed the f**k out of it. i liked it but i wasnt about to spend more money on something im not confindent that wouldnt last. least the ps3 is reliable!
360 is cheap and cheerful (and unreliable), ps3 is a quite expensive but it is supposed to last for many years and u will get your moneys worth in the end (unlike 360 where u have Ł280 of overheated machine)
sony have bitten off more than they can chew though id rather now stick with ps3 cause its buliding up momentum and its reliable
Why would you smash up your 360 when they're covered by a 3 yr warranty?
If this Gabe bloke reckons it's hard to develop for then it probably is. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't develop for it though.
Someone has mentioned that Capcom have cancelled Monster Hunter 3 on the PS3. That's true, they've moved it to Wii instead.
Imagine if Manchester United sacked all their players and replaced them with new ones that cost ten times as much. But these players didin't work well together, and they lost all their games. Most of the fans would stop supporting them, and complain and point out what went wrong. But some fans would keep on supporting them, ignoring all the bad play and own goals, claiming that the other team must have cheated, or the public negativity was to blame, and anyway, next season when the new strip and boots arrive that'll turn everything around.
It's a very obvious one. My point is is that the PS3 may be more difficult to develop for but companys will put up with it as Sony has the fanbase to shift aload of consoles and sell a lot of games in a years time. Not selling as many consoles for a year also doesn't put Sony off the top spot. They also benefit for having a strong brand name before they even entered the world of gaming. I'm sure the PS2 is still selling a lot all over the globe. It'll no doubt end up like the Megadrive.
I understand what you saying but Nintendo were the original market leaders in the console war
Were they? I thought Sega won in the West and the PC Engine won in the East? I think it's just that Nintendo survived. It was more elimination than a deathmatch back then I guess.
Actually the SNES sold about 46 million units and the Mega Drive about 29 million (according to the figures I found) so Nintendo were clear winners there (mostly due to higher sales in Japan). Your argument of Sony's past sucess really has little to no bearing on the current gen war, by that logic Nintendo should have always been in control of the market, but things change, they shot themselves in the foot and now Sony are doing it.
Couple of other points, yes, the PS2 was reputed to be difficult to program for but by the time its rivals, the Xbox and GC were launched it was so far ahead that developers had little choic but to develop for it. The Saturn was also a dog to make games for, true it had some great ones where developers got the best out of it they could, but the machine tanked because developers went over to the Playstation which was easier to work with and was getting some good sales momentum thanks to Sony's great marketing.
Remember games companies are commercial organisations, they have to look at their bottom line and decide for themselves if its worth the investment to make games for a machine, hence why the PS3 has lost quite a few games over the last year or so. It may well turn things around but at this point in time that's the way things stand.
Back on topic, Newell is entiteled to his opinion and since he actually works directly with the hardware I guess there's some validity to it. I'm sure that once developers get more used to the architecture it'll be easier.
Imagine if Manchester United sacked all their players and replaced them with new ones that cost ten times as much. But these players didin't work well together, and they lost all their games. Most of the fans would stop supporting them, and complain and point out what went wrong. But some fans would keep on supporting them, ignoring all the bad play and own goals, claiming that the other team must have cheated, or the public negativity was to blame, and anyway, next season when the new strip and boots arrive that'll turn everything around.
Rubbish. It is possible for a fan to keep supporting their favourite team yet criticise managerial and committee decisions... without trying to pass the blame onto silly little things. Infact the 'fans' that jump ship at the first sign of bad times aren't real fans at all. And it isn't a very good analogy anyway.
Imagine if Manchester United sacked all their players and replaced them with new ones that cost ten times as much. But these players didin't work well together, and they lost all their games. Most of the fans would stop supporting them, and complain and point out what went wrong. But some fans would keep on supporting them, ignoring all the bad play and own goals, claiming that the other team must have cheated, or the public negativity was to blame, and anyway, next season when the new strip and boots arrive that'll turn everything around.
Rubbish. It is possible for a fan to keep supporting their favourite team yet criticise managerial and committee decisions... without trying to pass the blame onto silly little things. Infact the 'fans' that jump ship at the first sign of bad times aren't real fans at all. And it isn't a very good analogy anyway.
@ atrimus So what matters most to you is graphics? Thats a very shallow view...
um, that's not what i said. what i'm saying is that its hard to take a developer's word that the system is so aweful, when said system is proving that its capable of so much. and lets be honest here, we are talking about graphics, because, truth be told, games now are no funner than they were in the PSOne's days. third-party developers cry so much about how hard the PS3 is to develop for. and guess what, first-party developers do to. the difference is that first-party developers actually deliver on exploiting the PS3's potential (and before you start, i'm not arguing the economics of that, i'm just saying that it is what it is). obviously gameplay matters over graphics (otherwise Lair would be in my collection, which it is not). all i'm saying is: don't be a developer complaining that they system is trash, when there's a number of games on the system thats saying otherwise (and yes, thats from a graphical standpoing).
it's so funny, most of the western programmers are real lazy guys. just do the easy way, make the games on windowsmachines so you don't have much more costs for converting them.
and as for hl2 on 360: you didn't waste time - JUST take the old Xbox-build, slap higher res textures and voila game ready.
the real waste of time here was reading this so called news.
Imagine if Manchester United sacked all their players and replaced them with new ones that cost ten times as much. But these players didin't work well together, and they lost all their games. Most of the fans would stop supporting them, and complain and point out what went wrong. But some fans would keep on supporting them, ignoring all the bad play and own goals, claiming that the other team must have cheated, or the public negativity was to blame, and anyway, next season when the new strip and boots arrive that'll turn everything around.
Rubbish. It is possible for a fan to keep supporting their favourite team yet criticise managerial and committee decisions... without trying to pass the blame onto silly little things. Infact the 'fans' that jump ship at the first sign of bad times aren't real fans at all. And it isn't a very good analogy anyway.
It's a superb analogy.
Works for me - if all you care about is Manchester United you'd stick with them through the hard times. On the other hand, if you just want to watch good footie you might go elsewhere...
it's so funny, most of the western programmers are real lazy guys. just do the easy way, make the games on windowsmachines so you don't have much more costs for converting them.
I doubt it has anything to do with being lazy, it's most likely to do with cost (which you actually acknowledge yourself).
We know that this business is a massive market with games having the potential of blockbusting films... Development costs count for little because a quality title will rake in the profit. I feel that this is all about games, as I've said before, and nothing... Nothing, on the playstation is getting me excited... The gap between the 360 and PS3 is barely unnoticable. The gap is games is lightyears. Only time will tell if your Ł499 was worth it. Only time will tell if blueray takes over the world of media entertainment. Time is a great leveller. The 2 years I've had with the 360 have been the best gaming years of my long gaming life, (Even if I have gone through 2!). Oh yes I had a ZX80 - the white power-house! Let's just hope quality games win out in the end because that is the only thing that will make me buy a PS3.
it's so funny, most of the western programmers are real lazy guys. just do the easy way, make the games on windowsmachines so you don't have much more costs for converting them.
I doubt it has anything to do with being lazy, it's most likely to do with cost (which you actually acknowledge yourself).
yeah, the costs. u know they want me to buy their games and I'm DEMANDING quality for my hardearned money - MY COSTS. if they can't deliver I won't buy. simple isn't it?
I mean they should do their homeworks instead lamenting around.
He basically said PS3 every single game has to be written for it, from the ground up and even then you cant use these assets on other machines, because of the nature of the PS3 with its cell and spe units.
Its a cost thing, PS3 is and will be expensive for a very long time to come, while the 360 might have 3 cores do 6 different things at once, but that is already being done on pc, so its no biggie what with pc's have multi core set ups.
It about money at the end of the, hence why just about every port to the ps3 is a port, developed on another platform, and why every multiplatform game comes out after its came out on somthing else first.
Other than sony themselves, everything else for ps3 is being made using engines designed for 360 and pc.
Power wise the 360 and PS3 are capable of generating the same images (with PC's already laughing at both).
That is absolute and utter gold embossed b******s (with respect)
Only the most screaming powerful PC can even come close to Cell in PS3. PC gamers are living in some strange old universe if they view paying two grand upwards for that kind of power as a good deal.
Part of the reason why silly men like this valve suit say things like this is he can see the PS3 destroying the PC gaming world in the long term.
Look forward to a Ł199 super computer coming to a store near you this time next year.
He basically said PS3 every single game has to be written for it, from the ground up and even then you cant use these assets on other machines, because of the nature of the PS3 with its cell and spe units.
so they are incapable to stand the competition?
Its a cost thing, PS3 is and will be expensive for a very long time to come, while the 360 might have 3 cores do 6 different things at once, but that is already being done on pc, so its no biggie what with pc's have multi core set ups.
that will the reason why the 360 won't see any better graphics than now because they know that to well - NO MORE TRICKS INCLUDED ANYMORE. imagine a god of war-quality game in few years time...
It about money at the end of the, hence why just about every port to the ps3 is a port, developed on another platform, and why every multiplatform game comes out after its came out on somthing else first.
if u've got an engine running costs won't matter anymore.
Power wise the 360 and PS3 are capable of generating the same images (with PC's already laughing at both).
That is absolute and utter gold embossed b******s (with respect)
Only the most screaming powerful PC can even come close to Cell in PS3. PC gamers are living in some strange old universe if they view paying two grand upwards for that kind of power as a good deal.
Part of the reason why silly men like this valve suit say things like this is he can see the PS3 destroying the PC gaming world in the long term.
Look forward to a Ł199 super computer coming to a store near you this time next year.
If the PS3 is so much more powerfull than the PC or 360, then how come even Sony can't make a game that shows this? It's had the dev tools longer than anyone else, it has more money to invest in a game than anyone else, but all they can do is tell us how great it's gonna be, one day, in the future.
Pc gamers I'll never understand you. It's like you walk around with diamond studded blinkers on, if it cost me thousands it must mean it's good!
I'll admit I've never liked using a mouse and keyboard to play games. You have to see from the perspective of someone who plays games on a console, What a rip off PC gaming appears to be.
You have to pay thousands to get a machine that runs the games. The games are always pushing the bounderies of what the hardware can do, so everybody in turn is forced to buy the latest graphics cards.
i only respond to fanboys because every time there is a PS3 news report. Every 360 owner and his dog comes onto the comments section to bash the PS3. I can't just sit by and let them get away with so much hate.
Pc gamers I'll never understand you. It's like you walk around with diamond studded blinkers on, if it cost me thousands it must mean it's good!
I'll admit I've never like using a mouse and keyboard to play games. You have to see from the perspective of someone who plays games on a console, What a rip off PC gaming appears to be.
You have to pay thousands to get a machine that runs the games. The games are always pushing the bounderies of what the hardware can do, so everybody in turn is forced to buy the latest graphics cards.
It's a con.
I game on PC, but I have a tight budget, that's why instead of upgrading last time I simply bought a 360. Now I can carry on playing all my favourite RTS's and my copies of HL2 and Battlefield 2 on PC and all the shinny new games like Bioshock, Mas effect, Halo3, COD4, Assassin's creed and PGR4 on my 360.
Imagine if Manchester United sacked all their players and replaced them with new ones that cost ten times as much. But these players didin't work well together, and they lost all their games. Most of the fans would stop supporting them, and complain and point out what went wrong. But some fans would keep on supporting them, ignoring all the bad play and own goals, claiming that the other team must have cheated, or the public negativity was to blame, and anyway, next season when the new strip and boots arrive that'll turn everything around.
Rubbish. It is possible for a fan to keep supporting their favourite team yet criticise managerial and committee decisions... without trying to pass the blame onto silly little things. Infact the 'fans' that jump ship at the first sign of bad times aren't real fans at all. And it isn't a very good analogy anyway.
It's a superb analogy.
Works for me - if all you care about is Manchester United you'd stick with them through the hard times. On the other hand, if you just want to watch good footie you might go elsewhere...
The only problem with that is people SHOULD be a fan of games, NOT consoles. That's the problems these days. People buy consoles based purely on brand name and then go into protective mode when ever someone bad mouths them. Its really annoying. Im a fan of games and always will be. If there are enough quality games on a console I will buy it pure and simple. I will NEVER buy a console just because I was a fan of its last-gen model...
and as for hl2 on 360: you didn't waste time - JUST take the old Xbox-build, slap higher res textures and voila game ready.
HL2 for Xbox wasn't the same build as its PC counter part. Xbox couldn't handle the PC version so they did a Doom 3 and chopped and changed some stuff. The Orange Box HL2 for 360 is an updated version using the latest Source build.
Well, looking at the in-game footage of both Killzone 2 and especially GT5. I haven't seen any games on the 360 look that good. PGR4,,,ALAN WAKE and i consider buing all 4 games no matter what.Peace out!
One thing is for sure Sony is not wasting anybody's time the only time waster is the guy who stated this. Whats his name again? In fact don't bother telling me as i will forget again with ease.
We know that this business is a massive market with games having the potential of blockbusting films... Development costs count for little because a quality title will rake in the profit. I feel that this is all about games, as I've said before, and nothing... Nothing, on the playstation is getting me excited... The gap between the 360 and PS3 is barely unnoticable. The gap is games is lightyears. Only time will tell if your Ł499 was worth it. Only time will tell if blueray takes over the world of media entertainment. Time is a great leveller. The 2 years I've had with the 360 have been the best gaming years of my long gaming life, (Even if I have gone through 2!). Oh yes I had a ZX80 - the white power-house! Let's just hope quality games win out in the end because that is the only thing that will make me buy a PS3.
WTF was that crap? If you think that the 360 has given you the best gaming years of your life than you are talking sh*t or know nothing about games. The 360 is good but not amazing. The 360 is very last gen when you put it next to the PS3 and the Wii. Sony and Nintendo always make amazing consoles but Microsoft just rush a console out to try and get a market lead on Sony and Nintendo. The truth is that when it comes to game consoles Sony and Nintendo are and always have been reaching for the stars while Microsoft are stuck in the kiddies sandbox
We know that this business is a massive market with games having the potential of blockbusting films... Development costs count for little because a quality title will rake in the profit. I feel that this is all about games, as I've said before, and nothing... Nothing, on the playstation is getting me excited... The gap between the 360 and PS3 is barely unnoticable. The gap is games is lightyears. Only time will tell if your Ł499 was worth it. Only time will tell if blueray takes over the world of media entertainment. Time is a great leveller. The 2 years I've had with the 360 have been the best gaming years of my long gaming life, (Even if I have gone through 2!). Oh yes I had a ZX80 - the white power-house! Let's just hope quality games win out in the end because that is the only thing that will make me buy a PS3.
WTF was that crap? If you think that the 360 has given you the best gaming years of your life than you are talking sh*t or know nothing about games. The 360 is good but not amazing. The 360 is very last gen when you put it next to the PS3 and the Wii. Sony and Nintendo always make amazing consoles but Microsoft just rush a console out to try and get a market lead on Sony and Nintendo. The truth is that when it comes to game consoles Sony and Nintendo are and always have been reaching for the stars while Microsoft are stuck in the kiddies sandbox
Come on Johnny, you have no right to call gizmo's post "crap". It's opinion and he's entitled to it.
As for the 360 being inferior to the PS3 and Wii, I can't agree with this comment. The Wii may have the new controls, but in almost everything else the 360 beats it. And I'm speaking as a Wii owner here.
As far as I'm concerned, we should all go and have pie and be done with this nonsense.
Battle of the consoles..whoop. I read somewhere ps2's are still outselling 360's that must be a lie surely! But then again alot of my real(not net buddies) friends, who are casual gamers still play their ps2
Anyway I guess the point of this post is too say everyone is entitled to their own view. Bit like marmite you either love it or hate it! Good to see passionate people defending their preferred console, perhaps they will be making half life 3 on blue ray sometime soon
yes another dreamcast, shenmue 3, oh joy!!! dreamcast was hugely underated, it had bags of power and potential and was only pushed out due to aggresive marketing by sony for the ps2, ive still got my dreamcast, and games looked far better on the dreamcast than the ps2, dead or alive 2 was one such game, but sega realy bought everything to the table with the dreamcast, fishing rods, maracas, steering wheels, vmu's. ahh to dream, come on sega, do us a favour DREAMCAST 2 !!!!!
Hmm it failed mainly because Sega previous systems where p**s poor ie Sega Saturn and Sega CD. The public lost trust with the Sega brand, that and the lackluster marketing campaign nailed the coffin shut.
Oh but lets just blame Sony for their marketing of course, 'cause its fashionable
what a shame I was looking forward to the Orange Box as a PS3 owner It was gonna be a compulsive purchase for me, now doubt has set in does this mean the xbox360 versions gonna be a lot better. there not gonna sell many Orange Boxes on Ps3 if they come out with statements like that.
We know that this business is a massive market with games having the potential of blockbusting films... Development costs count for little because a quality title will rake in the profit. I feel that this is all about games, as I've said before, and nothing... Nothing, on the playstation is getting me excited... The gap between the 360 and PS3 is barely unnoticable. The gap is games is lightyears. Only time will tell if your Ł499 was worth it. Only time will tell if blueray takes over the world of media entertainment. Time is a great leveller. The 2 years I've had with the 360 have been the best gaming years of my long gaming life, (Even if I have gone through 2!). Oh yes I had a ZX80 - the white power-house! Let's just hope quality games win out in the end because that is the only thing that will make me buy a PS3.
WTF was that crap? If you think that the 360 has given you the best gaming years of your life than you are talking sh*t or know nothing about games. The 360 is good but not amazing. The 360 is very last gen when you put it next to the PS3 and the Wii. Sony and Nintendo always make amazing consoles but Microsoft just rush a console out to try and get a market lead on Sony and Nintendo. The truth is that when it comes to game consoles Sony and Nintendo are and always have been reaching for the stars while Microsoft are stuck in the kiddies sandbox
You avatar is quite fitting for somebody who talks out of their bottom...
I first must ask do you have a 360? I guess you don't to have such a feckin stupid opinon, because the original poster was bang on.
I have all 3 of the consoles, the Wii comes out when the family are visiting because granny wants to play, the PS3 is dusted off when we want to watch a film (that's if it doesn't overheat *** Newsflash the PS3 also overheats), as its a cracking blue-ray player. But when you want to play games out comes the 360.
Gears, crackdown, bioshock, halo 3, lost planet, forza 2, dead rising, blue dragon these alone are so far ahead of anything on the PS3 for the next few months its just not funny.
Playing on my amiga will always be the best years of gaming i have had but what is out now and coming out for the 360 makes it a very close second for me.
So next time before you crawl out of steve bruces bottom to rubbish a valid opinion, do us all favour and shut the f**k up you s**thorn...
I've just read this entire argument. I have a headache. Let's go for the one with the biggest breasts.
Summary PS3 :- Hard to develop for, massive capability, crap selection of games, has a blu-ray player, possible massive future problems/success depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy time machine).
Summary 360 :- Easy to develop for, breaks down alot, massive selection of games, will meet full graphical/processor capacity before PS3, potential to dominate/die depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy reusable time machine).
Bottom line, I'll have to choose which one by the time it gets to spring, or I'll be attempting to play GTA4 by spinning it on my finger. I know I should go with a 360 'cos of the exclusive content, but what about Gran Turismo and Tekken 6? I'd feel naked without them....
Anyhoo, time will tell. I'm not going to make a guess, but it is fun to watch you people battle. In fact, I'll just go and buy whatever one is recommended by the person who shouts at me the most. Bring it.
Yep the Amiga was a great gaming platform and with it went the bedroom programmer. As to the person saying Microsoft makes rushed consoles. Well I agree that the 360 isn't of the highest build quality (mine is still going strong however) but Sony machines have had probs too. Remember the laser melting in the original PSOnes or the power supply and disc scratching probs in the original PS2s? The PS2 also went to market before the Xbox and Gamecube so dunno where you're coming from.
The PS3 does have overheating probs right now if you have the discs spinning for long periods (playing 3 feature movies in a row for example).
It's funny however that as soon as something is posted about the 360, PS3 or Wii all these bashing posts just appear.
All 3 current gen machines (they are no longer next gen FFS) are gonna have great games, thats a FACT. Get the one with the games that appeal to you and stop trying to bash everyone that doesn't take the same path as you simple.
And to the person that bad mouthed the Saturn, it was a great console and had some stunning games which many still enjoy to this day. It wasn't marketed well however and due to some questionable add-ons previously Sega had lost the trust of the market. It was far from "crap" however. The Saturn, N64 and PSOne all had great titles.
His point is valid, even if the fanboys don't like it. He is not saying "the PS3 is feeble and rubbish" so much as he is saying "the PS3 archetecture is unique, and learning how to get the best out of it is not a worthwhile investment".
He might change his tune if the install base really picks up.
agreed, is think he also means that the work done for the PS3 in non-transferable to other formats so it makes no sense to do. i agree with him from a business point of view as at the end of the day it is all about returns on investments and profit, people need to start realizing this.
i dont think he will change his tune unless the whole industry goes the same route as the cell, which unfortunately it isn't.
Pc gamers I'll never understand you. It's like you walk around with diamond studded blinkers on, if it cost me thousands it must mean it's good!
I'll admit I've never liked using a mouse and keyboard to play games. You have to see from the perspective of someone who plays games on a console, What a rip off PC gaming appears to be.
You have to pay thousands to get a machine that runs the games. The games are always pushing the bounderies of what the hardware can do, so everybody in turn is forced to buy the latest graphics cards.
It's a con.
what a ridiculous post, my pc cost Ł425 (without monitor, but try playing a console without a TV) and can run most current games with full graphics and its about 1 year old.
how much did the PS3 cost when brand new? how much cheaper are PC games than PS3 games.
yes another dreamcast, shenmue 3, oh joy!!! dreamcast was hugely underated, it had bags of power and potential and was only pushed out due to aggresive marketing by sony for the ps2, ive still got my dreamcast, and games looked far better on the dreamcast than the ps2, dead or alive 2 was one such game, but sega realy bought everything to the table with the dreamcast, fishing rods, maracas, steering wheels, vmu's. ahh to dream, come on sega, do us a favour DREAMCAST 2 !!!!!
Hmm it failed mainly because Sega previous systems where p**s poor ie Sega Saturn and Sega CD. The public lost trust with the Sega brand, that and the lackluster marketing campaign nailed the coffin shut.
Oh but lets just blame Sony for their marketing of course, 'cause its fashionable
do you even know why sony takes all the flack for the failure of the dreamcast.......NO i didnt think so, The reason people blame sony is money, sega was struggling with the release of the dreamcast all though they had a superb machine they had bad press due to the shambles that was the saturn and just when the dreamcast started to pick up in waltz big corp money bags sony and start chucking wads of cash at devs to make exclusives leaving the sega machine with out a hope so fast forward to 2007 and those bitter dreamcast fans have mostly got 360 and are quite happy that sony are sweating
I've just read this entire argument. I have a headache. Let's go for the one with the biggest breasts.
Summary PS3 :- Hard to develop for, massive capability, crap selection of games, has a blu-ray player, possible massive future problems/success depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy time machine).
Summary 360 :- Easy to develop for, breaks down alot, massive selection of games, will meet full graphical/processor capacity before PS3, potential to dominate/die depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy reusable time machine).
Bottom line, I'll have to choose which one by the time it gets to spring, or I'll be attempting to play GTA4 by spinning it on my finger. I know I should go with a 360 'cos of the exclusive content, but what about Gran Turismo and Tekken 6? I'd feel naked without them....
Anyhoo, time will tell. I'm not going to make a guess, but it is fun to watch you people battle. In fact, I'll just go and buy whatever one is recommended by the person who shouts at me the most. Bring it.
I think a round of applause is in order to harveymuso for the most sensible, impartial and truthful post all day.
Whiney fanboys, surely there is nothing you can whine about there?
And my bottom line would be almost identical with the addition of I would feel naked without those games, plus the lure of a BluRay player is hard to ignore
I've just read this entire argument. I have a headache. Let's go for the one with the biggest breasts.
Summary PS3 :- Hard to develop for, massive capability, crap selection of games, has a blu-ray player, possible massive future problems/success depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy time machine).
Summary 360 :- Easy to develop for, breaks down alot, massive selection of games, will meet full graphical/processor capacity before PS3, potential to dominate/die depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy reusable time machine).
Bottom line, I'll have to choose which one by the time it gets to spring, or I'll be attempting to play GTA4 by spinning it on my finger. I know I should go with a 360 'cos of the exclusive content, but what about Gran Turismo and Tekken 6? I'd feel naked without them....
Anyhoo, time will tell. I'm not going to make a guess, but it is fun to watch you people battle. In fact, I'll just go and buy whatever one is recommended by the person who shouts at me the most. Bring it.
I think a round of applause is in order to harveymuso for the most sensible, impartial and truthful post all day.
Whiney fanboys, surely there is nothing you can whine about there?
And my bottom line would be almost identical with the addition of I would feel naked without those games, plus the lure of a BluRay player is hard to ignore
I agree almost 100% with Harvey, the only thing I would question is the massive capability of the PS3. I've not seen anything out or in development yet that has really made me think 'Oh wow - there's no way the 360 could do that...'
FAT LAZY LIZARD (GABE NEWELL) GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO EVEN 1% OF WHAT POLYPHONY OR SONY OR CAPCOM OR KONAMI OR NAMCO OR SQUARE OR..... EVERY OTHER BIG GAME HOUSE CAN DO ON PS3, AND YOU DARE TO SPEAK???? STUPID PATHETIC FAT AS...E GO EAT LIKE A PIG YOU ARE AND IF YOU SAY THAT YOU CAN'T DO YOUR MEDIOCRE HALFLIFE 2 GAME ON PS3 THEN YOU ARE THE MOST STUPID AND RIDICULOUS THING ON THIS PLANET LLLOOOSSSEEEERRRRRRR
is this supposed to be ironic?
valve are quite possibly the biggest independent games developer in the world, far superior to polyphony, sony, namco (are you serious)
I've just read this entire argument. I have a headache. Let's go for the one with the biggest breasts.
Summary PS3 :- Hard to develop for, massive capability, crap selection of games, has a blu-ray player, possible massive future problems/success depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy time machine).
Summary 360 :- Easy to develop for, breaks down alot, massive selection of games, will meet full graphical/processor capacity before PS3, potential to dominate/die depending on how it pans out (mental note : buy reusable time machine).
Bottom line, I'll have to choose which one by the time it gets to spring, or I'll be attempting to play GTA4 by spinning it on my finger. I know I should go with a 360 'cos of the exclusive content, but what about Gran Turismo and Tekken 6? I'd feel naked without them....
Anyhoo, time will tell. I'm not going to make a guess, but it is fun to watch you people battle. In fact, I'll just go and buy whatever one is recommended by the person who shouts at me the most. Bring it.
I think a round of applause is in order to harveymuso for the most sensible, impartial and truthful post all day.
Whiney fanboys, surely there is nothing you can whine about there?
And my bottom line would be almost identical with the addition of I would feel naked without those games, plus the lure of a BluRay player is hard to ignore
I agree almost 100% with Harvey, the only thing I would question is the massive capability of the PS3. I've not seen anything out or in development yet that has really made me think 'Oh wow - there's no way the 360 could do that...'
True. Until I see something drop a toilet on GoW's (now a year old!) head from a great height there is no reason to splash out on another console. Ł300 on a new console or 7/8 games. I'd go with the games for now. Especially with the 360 line up for this xmas. Like I've been saying, next xmas the PS3 will be even cheaper and they should have a good amount of exclusives out by then. The average lifespan for a console is five years (roughly!), so the 360 will be over half way by next xmas. The PS3 should be having the party that the 360 is having this time next year. That is something that Sony will have to do. As a gamer, I'm very much looking forward to these companys offering us everything they can.
Power wise the 360 and PS3 are capable of generating the same images (with PC's already laughing at both).
That is absolute and utter gold embossed b******s (with respect)
Only the most screaming powerful PC can even come close to Cell in PS3. PC gamers are living in some strange old universe if they view paying two grand upwards for that kind of power as a good deal.
Part of the reason why silly men like this valve suit say things like this is he can see the PS3 destroying the PC gaming world in the long term.
Look forward to a Ł199 super computer coming to a store near you this time next year.
That is absolute and utter gold embossed b******s (with respect)
Only the most screaming powerful PC can even come close to Cell in PS3. PC gamers are living in some strange old universe if they view paying two grand upwards for that kind of power as a good deal.
Part of the reason why silly men like this valve suit say things like this is he can see the PS3 destroying the PC gaming world in the long term.
Look forward to a Ł199 super computer coming to a store near you this time next year.
Haven't we all been through this a thousand times before? I for one am bored of hearing developers "telling it how it is". It is very likely that they have a business incentive to make these comments so sorting the truth from the marketing spin is a futile endeavour.
The fact is that the PS3 is rubbish so like most things it'll probably end up outselling everything else. If people got off their fanboy high horses they'd see that a console is just a household gadget, to be bench marked and assessed like any other.
I personally think the DRM on IPods make them an absolute travesty. I would never own one, yet there they are, the best selling mp3 player brand in the world.
Anyone with spec sheet can quote figures on floating operation points and memory but that means nothing when the fact is that power or hardware complexity mean nothing to the mother of a 14 year old reading his letter to Santa.
Imagine a planned simultaneous release being b0rked because one platform is behind schedule.
That is the core of Newell's beef imo, that the increase in cost and risk for including PS3 in your multiplatform line-up is substantial. I'm sure if the PS3 had much larger penetration he could live with it (i.e. shut up ), but as it is he's very vocal about the gripes Valve has with the PS3... or, put another way:
"We didn't like multicore on the 360, we didn't like it on the PS3, but now that Intel is going all multi-core on us we didn't have a choice so we've decided we're going to like multi-core. But for some stubborn, stupid Intel fanboyish reason I cannot mentally match this new lesson with the PS3 hardware design just yet. I'm just a hater that way."
I think a lot of people here forget that this is a business, and what he says makes perfect business sense. And I've not heard anyone come up with a sensible counter argument to that.
Isn't putting EA in charge of porting duties of Half Life 2 to the PS3 like asking Neil Buchanan from 'Art Attack' to paint the Sistine Chapel?
Actually I like Neil. And I enjoyed EA's James Bond- Everything or nothing- EA squeezed out graphical effects from the Cube that I had previously thought I would only see on the Xbox. Need for speed: most wanted was a bit repetitive but I had a LOT of fun for the first few hours playing late at night with 2 other people. So EA may do a great job on a PS3 port. I hope so as I am not necessarily disappointed that PS3 is so difficult to develop for. Sony didn't take the easy option of putting a 'PC in a box'. Not that the Xbox360 is just that- it has tried to include younger gamers as well eg. with some of Rare's games. In an ideal world, wouldn't it be nice to see a creative developer like Valve spend the time to see the PS3 as an intriguing puzzle that needs to be cracked, like a Rubik Cube as in early PS3 adverts? But I suppose in the real world they need to get the game out as quickly as possible, particularly as this isn't Half Life 3, it's a 3 year old game (arguably a 10/10 one) and its episodes.
I wonder what Ken Levine (Bioshock) thinks of the PS3 as whether it will come to the PS3 after the exclusivity period.
Why's the dickhead releasing anything for PS3, then?
If your a PS3 fan you should be jumping for joy that he is...
Gabe's comments were also the opinion of John Carmack in an interview last year I think ... but a little less controversialy. The message was the same though as I remember. Sony has made it a real pig to develop on.
The games are always pushing the bounderies of what the hardware can do, so everybody in turn is forced to buy the latest graphics cards.
It's a con.
And if it weren't for the PC constantly pushing the boundaries, your precious console probly wouldnt exist. ATi and Nvidia make nearly all their money from PC Hardware, and without that money they couldn't have developed chips for consoles.
somebody said that pcs are laughing at ps3 and xbox 360 - well there was a preview of unreal tournament 3 and it said that the ps3 graphics are as good as a full powered high-end PC. that impresses me.
somebody said that pcs are laughing at ps3 and xbox 360 - well there was a preview of unreal tournament 3 and it said that the ps3 graphics are as good as a full powered high-end PC. that impresses me.
Y'know this is really sad. Sure the PS3 is selling quite poorly and Sony have dropped the ball so often it's hard to keep up, but the final comment about the 360 and PC version essentially being better (para-phrasing of course) is just another dev slagging off a console they have less vested interest in.
Were that not the case, they would've developed the PS3 version in-house.
I'll freely admit I can't stand Sony's Playstation brand, but it's with personal and well formed reason that I do so. I'm not a child who enjoys a good "my console's better than yours" argument. I just wish that developers would keep their opinions to themselves. It seems like every other week some key industry figure eschews any corporate responsibility and rather than discussing development issues intelligently, just resorts to moaning and swearing.
Want to know why they put less interest in the PS3? Because it sucks.
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