Good news: we've got the world-exclusive review of Army of Two. Bad news: we've got the world-exclusive review of Army of Two. Why? If you haven't already heard, EA have delayed their ambitious co-op shooter, until Q1 2008 - perhaps as late as March. For a fuller explanation, click here - but the simple fact remains, PS3 is getting games a few weeks later, or worse, than Xbox 360. Why? We've got some pretty solid theories...
We'll talk about this more on the forthcoming podcast, but the key issue is simple: PS3 is harder to program for than Xbox 360; and Sony are harder (or rather, were harder) to work with than Microsoft. That's why Kaz Hirai banged on about reaching out to developers and making better middleware development tools at the Tokyo Game Show. Sony know they've got a problem, and have to work double hard to win back the hearts and minds of the developers who control their fate. Only recently, Valve's Gabe Newell trashed PS3, while even Grant Collier of Infinity Ward (whose Call of Duty 4 is identical on PS3 to Xbox 360, and a real technical show stopper) admits Sony are harder to work with, citing a clumsy technical problem feedback loop.
During the Leipzig games show, the message was the same: Microsoft provide developers with better support, and their console is 3-4 years into its life-cycle, meaning developers are comfortable developing for it. All developers agreed PS3 is powerful, indeed more so than Xbox, but it's a swine to program thanks to its complex seven core parallel processor. Upshot? Developers go with what they know, and build games with Xbox in mind - an approach, according to Lair developer Factor 5, that makes it even harder to 'port' the game across to PS3.
That's why the - admittedly slightly graphically superior - PS3 version of Skate was released two weeks after the Xbox 360 game. It's taking developers longer to iron out the bugs. Strangehold is taking even longer - it's been out on Xbox for over a month, but the PS3 version is yet to ship. We've played it through. On PS3. Using the Sixaxis. And reviewed it. But they're still ironing out bugs. It boggles the mind.
Army of Two delay? We've played the 'finished' PS3 code, and as our forthcoming review will attest, there are some issues - but, in this situation, it's a wider critique of the game, and not just a platform-specific issue. Check out our world-exclusive review when PSM3#94 hits the shelves on Thursday - and, rest assured, thanks to the potential five-month delay you won't be reading it anywhere else.
The most frustrating thing is, it's all so avoidable. As cited, Call of Duty 4 looks incredible on PS3 (easily a match for the 360 version, if not slightly better). And that's coming from Infinity Ward (Activision) a third-party developer like everyone else. PS3 can be programmed to sing (just look at Ratchet and Uncharted, both Sony first-party titles), but that development expertise just isn't being shared in the global community. Upshot? We don't think we'll be seeing the best from third-party PS3 games until at least this time next year, when the leap over Xbox 360 will become painfully apparent.
The ray of light at the end of the tunnel, as ever, is PS3's potential. Only yesterday, Activision declared Sony's machine the most advanced of all next-gen machines:
Text taken from spong.com news story:
"Speaking at the recent Web 2.0 Summit in the United States, Activision's chairman and CEO, Robert Kotick, told an audience member that he believes that the PlayStation 3 is the most advanced gaming platform available. However, he also pointed out that, "few game developers were building products that take full advantage of the console's powerful, multicore processor". In a more upbeat statement, the Activision head man did suggest that in "the next four or five years" this would change."
Four or five years? We're more optimistic - especially given what we've seen from VU Games' exciting Project A (a classic movie licence), plus what we know about Resistance 2 (which is coming). Still, we're sick of waiting for the future,
Or maybe, we just can't see it when it comes along today. When mid-November comes, crack on Call of Duty 4, or Ratchet, or Uncharted... and savour the glorious present. They're the best any console can offer right now, and maybe it's insane to decry the thrill of now for the impossible allure of tomorrow.
Sorry. We're ranting. Welcome your comments below.
on topic: I agree with everything you said, and I didn't know about Activision saying the PS3 was better, hopefully we'll get some decent exclusives from them..
That's why the - admittedly slightly graphically superior - PS3 version of Skate was released two weeks after the Xbox 360 game
If that's so, then why do IGN keep saying the 360 version is better?
I can't think of anything. I wrote something on the last blog though... it wasn't related. I've thought of something! If I were Sony, I'd get my bottom in gear and send out top developers to third-party studios and hold big, in-depth workshops on how best to utilise and use their hardware. These should have a relative frequency too.
I really think the ps3 is on the up and up, especially looking at last weeks sales figures. If certain games are ALREADY looking better on the ps3. Currently, i think the delays are a GOOD thing as there's just too many games coming out this month, and frankly i don't want to miss any of them because getting 10 games in a month is a bit silly (for me atleast.)
IGN deleted the 'Xbox 360 version is better' paragraph at a later date, presumably under the weight of gamer evidence to the contrary. The PS3 version *does* have better textures. Fact. But the frame rate is arguably choppier at times. Still, moot point. Both versions are perfectly playable.
Its been doing my head in with all the delays and lack of games but my spirits have been lifted by the 'superb' GT5 prologue demo and the iminent release of pes2008 followed by COD4, assissins creed and uncharted. Things are starting to look a little better for us ps3 owners
But the frame rate is arguably choppier at times. Still, moot point. Both versions are perfectly playable.
There was a big petition set up on EA's forums from angry PS3 owning Skaters complaining that the drop in frame rate makes it just about unplayable at times. I'm glad to say so far I haven't encountered anything more than a momentary stutter but I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
From what I've read elsewhere, it sounds like PES is having a similar struggle with PS3's innards and slows down to the pace of the OAPs Sunday League whenever there's a few players on screen.
If this trend continues the PS3 could end up like the Wii - relying on first-party games for anything approaching good quality.
The way I see it is this, these games that are being delayed is a good thing, the developers have realised that their games aren't as good as they can be and are taking their time to improve them rather than just rushing them out and onto the shelves just look at games like def jam, need 4 speed carbon and Madden NFL, if they'd have just delayed for two or three months that would have given them time to iron out the flaws.
The points are mostly covered. The 360 is simpler to develop for, so developers make the 360 version first in priority. What's also interesting is that while Ubisoft is focusing on the PS3 version of Assassin's Creed, all of their trailers, screenshots, gameplay demonstrations and such so far have been of the 360 version. They respond with the same stuff; it's harder to develop for the PS3 than the 360, but the PS3 version is still the main one they're focusing on. Also, a developer once said that Microsoft bring people over and are more supportive, whereas with Sony, you rarely see any high-level employee and even then you have to go to them for support.
And how did PSM3 manage to review Army of Two five months before release?
"]If that's so, then why do IGN keep saying the 360 version is better?
The way I see it is this, these games that are being delayed is a good thing, the developers have realised that their games aren't as good as they can be and are taking their time to improve them rather than just rushing them out and onto the shelves just look at games like def jam, need 4 speed carbon and Madden NFL, if they'd have just delayed for two or three months that would have given them time to iron out the flaws.
i just made a forum on this topic about those points
i totally agree with you at leasst the develpers are trying to get the best out of their game unlike EA (skate..) and in time develpers will get more used to the console and maybe the ps3 versions of the game will be superior to the 360 counter-parts
Christ, and to think i already felt aggrieved at spending the full £425. Now you say it'll be this time next year before the PS3 overtakes the 360? What price would i pay if i had waited that long, not much going by what you can get one for nowadays, officially p**sed off.
Well I don't know about you other early adopters, but when I bought my ps3 at launch, I knew this was likely. I knew it would be a couple of years before we saw the full potentiol of the console, I mean that's just commn sense, compare ps2 launch games to something like god of war 2...you see my point. I knew there would be a price drop at some point, and a knew it would be a while before any AAA games came out. But I decided I didn't care. I've had months of gaming goodness from my ps3, and don't regret my purchase one bit. That said, it would be nice if we could actually get one freaking game on time for a change...
"Four or five years? We're more optimistic..." Well I'm glad you are. Me? Not quit sure I can wait that long. Might just have to get another console after all. God spare my wallet from these evils!!!
^ They were predicting four or five years for the PS3 to reach it's full potential. There will be good games in a year's time, but the PS3 is such a powerful machine, it could do much better.
Both platforms have their own quirks and any game coded for just one of them and then ported to the other is likely to have numerous major issues - for instance, the obvious issue that the 360 runs an ATI GPU whereas the one in the PS3 is an Nvidia processor... blah, blah.
"It's actually, *supposed to be* easier to code for a PS3, then port to 360. Rather than code for 360, and port to PS3..." so say the devs. Personally, I think it's waay too complex a topic, and more than that (something that is far too implementation-dependent, perhaps), than to be able to make broad generalisations like... "it's easier to make a game for PS3, and then port it to 360, rather than the other way round".
If they lead with the PS3, the 360 gets the delays, simple as that. It's not the PS3's fault. More simply, that devs at the moment tend to lead with the 360 and the PS3 is different. That's really all there is to it. Hopefully, they'll learn from the optimisations, and will be able to work faster on their next PS3 releases. Therefore, allowing the manufacturers to 'bring the games to market' that much more efficiently - in turn, allowing the baying hordes to be somewhat happier with their lot... maybe!
From talking to the Top Spin 3 developers at Leipzig, they claim to have had Xbox 360 development kits for 3-4 years. I thought this was a mistake, and queried again, but they re-confirmed they'd had kits for ages - explaining how Microsoft were essentially a software company (based on years of PC experience) and Xbox development was impressively slick, especially in terms of solving technical queries - i.e. they have swift problem resolution feedback loops. Once again, contrast this with the situation on PS3, where only 6-12 months before PS3 launch, the closest we'd seen to a PS3 test kit was a giant silver box the size of two VHS video players during a visit to Free Radical in Nottingham/Derby.
... i.e. they have swift problem resolution feedback loops. Once again, contrast this with the situation on PS3, where only 6-12 months before PS3 launch, the closest we'd seen to a PS3 test kit was a giant silver box the size of two VHS video players during a visit to Free Radical in Nottingham/Derby.
Interesting comments Dan, I guess with the benefit of hindsight you've got to give MS some credit, in that they've managed to come together to deliver a total package - one which everyone knew was heading - even if it's not totally there yet.
As for Sony, well, a wild guess at what could've potentially gone wrong would be that no one with a commanding vision seemed to take the lead and paint a complete picture for everyone to follow... I've got definite thoughts on this, and I think ultimately things would have been better if:
a) Kutaragi had become CEO of the entire group as previously expected
or
b) Stringer had let Kutaragi retire upon taking the CEO position, rather than pleading with him to stay on
A product so important should have been guided by a singular vision either way, but for those critical two years it was a tug of war between priorities. Another major issue is with Sony's unified marketing (or lack thereof). In my view, part of it has to do with the software delay, so marketing couldn't plan properly.
Question:
What were these devs doing in 2004?
More direct question: If Sony wanted to establish PS3 as an elite platform that PS2 gamers should migrate to, why didn't they push GoW2 on PS3 instead of PS2? Short term profit on PS2 in the big picture is peanuts compared to establishing a new platform in a heated battle with MS.
my thinking is that developers are using the 360 as the leading format to test the games. As someone said it would take just as long to port games from the ps3 to the 360. Take gta 4 for instance they could probably make it bigger and better if they were using the ps3 as the leading format. But there isn't any point in doing that because then they have to worry about it working on the 360. I read somewere on the net not so long ago that the 360 was limiting gta 4 whether it was official or not i don't know. But what i do know is that the ps3 does hold more power than the 360 therefore developers have got no choice but to use the 360 as the leading format because whatever games the 360 throws at the ps3 sony will laugh. As where if you turn it around im not so sure microsoft would take it very kindly.
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