Shadowrun designer Bill Fulton has staged an attack against Xbox Live idiots, claiming that the abusive behaviour of online games is "dramatically reducing" sales of his game. Funny, we though it was the bad reviews.
At Microsoft Game Studios, Fulton was responsible for the online matchmaking system, UI and the social aspects of play on the multiplayer shooter, which seemingly got lost in the carnage of Forza 2 and the Halo 3 multiplayer beta.
Speaking his mind on website Gamasutra, Fulton says: "The online behavior of our customers is dramatically reducing our sales, and continues to stunt the growth of our industry."
Speaking more broadly about online gaming, Fulton says that of all the ways he spends his time, "playing games online is the only one I would describe as "frequently barbaric". Insults of all kinds, including racist and homophobic slurs, are commonplace," he says.
"Non-gamers simply don't love games enough to put up with the crap they get online. The reason they would consider playing online is to have fun with other people - and right now, playing games online with strangers rarely delivers that for anyone outside the hardcore demographic."
Isn't Xbox Live aimed at hardcore gamers anyway? Nintendo Wi-Fi, with no voice, text chat or name-swapping is far more appropriate for the casual gamers who want a safe time online.
"Isn't Xbox Live aimed at hardcore gamers anyway? Nintendo Wi-Fi, with no voice, text chat or name-swapping is far more appropriate for the casual gamers who want a safe time online."
There's a lot to be said for an online service with no voice-communication or even text input as it means you cannot hear any abuse at all and your gaming enjoying is increased hundredfold!
I used to play games online for years on the PC with no voice-comms or Friends lists; where the odd line of text was easily overlooked and your gaming experience was only unpleasant if you got a laggy connection. Xbox LIVE is ruined by mouthy, obnoxious teens, usually Americans, and if I play games online on the Xbox 360 (not that I do much mind) I prefer to (a) not use the headset and (b) make sure voices through the speakers is off!!! I have no desire to speak with people while playing online, it ruins my concentration. Besides I just use real people as an alternative to the predictable CPU A.I. for shooters and racing games! If I want to talk I have real friends I can play against.
I've found that about 1% of people on live might use racist/homophobic language - more use other offensive words, but certainly no more than you would hear walking down the street or on tv. You can always mute anyone who you don't want to listen to anyway.
So the bad sales have nothing to do with it being a crap game.
Abuse happens on ANY online game, regardless of format. Ive played PC games for years as well as XBL and been on PSN. A proper system of punishment to discourage them is needed.
I don't know anyone in the world who would pay the subscription to simply sit online and do nothing. And even if you did find someone to do that - who would they talk to? Isn't everyone else too busy playing games?
Of course you get morons - you get them everywhere. Look out of your window for an hour and I guarantee you'll see 20 people who would use bad language or insult each other if they were getting their ass kicked.
That's the most ridiculous argument against a service I've ever heard. Don't blame the crappy source material, blame the community. Classy.
If I was an XBL CEO I'd pull the plug. "Don't like the service? Then don't use it." Click.
I play mainly "grown up" shooters on my PC so I was fairly shocked at the level of idiocy when I first started playing on Live, people really don't think twice about calling you a w****r, just because you had the audacity to shoot them, however the guilty ones are nearly always pre-pubescent, and I've been surprised by just how many are playing R6v2 for example.
It won't put me off playing online though, if I'm on somewhere with idiots I just take my headset off, and dont listen to the chatter, and the almighty MUTE button works a treat if there is just one or two asshats mouthing off.
So the bad sales have nothing to do with it being a crap game.
Abuse happens on ANY online game, regardless of format. Ive played PC games for years as well as XBL and been on PSN. A proper system of punishment to discourage them is needed.
i agree - did you know that MS need 10 formal complaints before they will take action and ban someone from XBL. I find this ridiculous as its gotta be pretty serious to formally complain. As most people will just give bad rep. But it really is pointless.
MS certainly will be reluctant to ban people from live as they would loose revenue and potentially software sales
Personally i get fed up especially with americans who are by far the worst... (despite the fact that i can mute) but nothing will be done
I'm not a fan of voice chat; it's too easily abused. There definitely needs to be some way of banning assholes from servers or even the game. I'm a PC gamer and have always had a pleasant experience online, in terms of communication. Everyone only communicates nice, friendly messages, information on the other team or frustration at certain players, but not in an insulting way, in a respectful, joking way. That is until the other night. I went on a new TF2 server and there was this guy who obviously had his finger constanlty over the speak button, insulting everyone for any minor mistake; me for one when I shot him suspecting him a spy and shot him. Then he started having a rant about World of Warcraft. Jesus! I don't want to hear that crap when online.
"Isn't Xbox Live aimed at hardcore gamers anyway? Nintendo Wi-Fi, with no voice, text chat or name-swapping is far more appropriate for the casual gamers who want a safe time online."
Thats one of the most stupid statements I have heard in the context of the article, what the hell does that even mean???
Since when did being a 'hardcore gamer' have anything to do with being a absoloute idiot and insult people online, or having to put up with being insults online???
Hell, I don't even know what being a so called 'hardcore gamer' even means to be honest...
We can't ignore the fact that there IS a problem though, merely because it's going to be very hard to fix.
Why should racial, sexual or religious bigotry be acceptable in online gaming, when it is nowhere else?
The level of verbal abuse in online games is ridiculous. It's offensive, intimidating and should not be tolerated.
Like most people, I mute or block the idiots that I meet but that doesn't stop me encountering them in the first place.
Both gamers and developers need to stop turning a blind eye and start doing something about it. Next time someone crosses the line, don't block them, complain about them. Get them banned, blocked, blackmarked, whatever. But don't just accept abuse as an unavoidable part of online gaming.
We can't ignore the fact that there IS a problem though, merely because it's going to be very hard to fix.
Why should racial, sexual or religious bigotry be acceptable in online gaming, when it is nowhere else?
The level of verbal abuse in online games is ridiculous. It's offensive, intimidating and should not be tolerated.
Like most people, I mute or block the idiots that I meet but that doesn't stop me encountering them in the first place.
Both gamers and developers need to stop turning a blind eye and start doing something about it. Next time someone crosses the line, don't block them, complain about them. Get them banned, blocked, blackmarked, whatever. But don't just accept abuse as an unavoidable part of online gaming.
</soapbox>
HERE, HERE. the biggest problem i find is in the lobbies. i have to keep pressing the mute on my tv as i can only stop them once in game (ps3). ban all american kids under 15 and that will cut out 70% of the crap.
more like making crap games is ruining sales. Make a good enough game and people will play it even with the annoying yankie kids. or follow the example of your peers coz last time I looked both COD and Halo both have mute buttons.
I dont' find it offensive, because I know that most people who use offensive terms don't actually mean it in the original offensive sense. And besides, I swear plenty at home so I'm used to it.
But sometimes it does bug me and people take it too far. The N-word especially.
I have no problems determining which people are using terms in an actually threatening or offensive way and I do not hesitate about filing official complaints if they are. I mute and avoid people if they just p**s me off, but they don't get complaints raised.
What really bugs me is the kids that do it. The SV12s (my new term for Squeaky-Voiced Little 12 year olds) who don't even know what they're saying. I'm hoping the Byron Report (I love that woman) is going to create a worldwide precendent so that we see - and hear - less trash talking from underage kids. I mean really, Halo 3 and CoD4 are what? 15? 17+? Unless it's Joe Pasquale, no guy with a voice like that should be playing them.
lets see... oh what a surprise, comments like "so its nothing to do with it being rubbish" are present and correct It is in no way "a crap game"
I feel sorry for the guys that made Shadowrun, i really love this game, it is the most fun ive had online for a very long time, and i play a lot of games online.
If you find half decent people to play with it is the dogs bollox, but due to the nature of the game (online multiplayer) a room can more or less be ruined if a complete t**t comes in who is hellbent on messing up other peoples enjoyement by teamkilling, constant noise, abusive language etc coz it can be hard to get them kicked sometimes, i think that is what the guy in the article is talking about.
Hasnt happened often when ive been playing but it happened the other night and i was really p**sed off at the guy who was team killing and i lost my cool and got into an abusive war of words... racist t**t! But mostly the guys that play it are nice friendly people who are there to have fun.
Shadowrun has its flaws i suppose (if you want a single player game dont bother) but in my eyes it is practically flawless and delivered the fantastic multiplayer experience i wanted.
Muting certain people (or nations) would be a good option for all online games. It would stop me hearing the French (i can't understand them, what's the point in hearing them).
I'd also like the "Mute all Americans below the ages of 16". I don't mind the constant swearing, most of the time it is amusing (it if it done in general, not aimed to someone), but every time i hear some high-pitched voice shout "owned" or someone just grunt an insult in chav-language it makes me want to turn the headset off.
I doubt it would stop a games sales though really-thaty's just a poor excuse. I've had some great times online with some people just having a laugh
Well I play Warhawk all the time and never really hear abuse. I've never heard any racist or homophobic remarks.
Maybe us PS3 owners are just a little more civilized and mature than our 360 counterparts. ...
Or maybe it's just cos barely anyone's gotta headset on PSN.
I think all the playstation tards (retards who own ps3's not ps3 owners all being retarded) are on internet forums instead of online, check just about anywhere and they are polluting every board imaginable.
lets see... oh what a surprise, comments like "so its nothing to do with it being rubbish" are present and correct It is in no way "a crap game"
I feel sorry for the guys that made Shadowrun, i really love this game, it is the most fun ive had online for a very long time, and i play a lot of games online.
If you find half decent people to play with it is the dogs bollox, but due to the nature of the game (online multiplayer) a room can more or less be ruined if a complete t**t comes in who is hellbent on messing up other peoples enjoyement by teamkilling, constant noise, abusive language etc coz it can be hard to get them kicked sometimes, i think that is what the guy in the article is talking about.
Hasnt happened often when ive been playing but it happened the other night and i was really p**sed off at the guy who was team killing and i lost my cool and got into an abusive war of words... racist t**t! But mostly the guys that play it are nice friendly people who are there to have fun.
Shadowrun has its flaws i suppose (if you want a single player game dont bother) but in my eyes it is practically flawless and delivered the fantastic multiplayer experience i wanted.
so there
Sorry but this game is one of the worst misuses of an IP I have seen. Terrible, terrible waste.
here's the perfect analogy for this situation: if i'm in a restaurant, and a bunch of delinquents come in and behave like idiotic juveniles, then more than likely i'm gonna leave said restaurant without buying anything, no matter how good its food may be. chances are i'll never return either. if i approach a restaurant, and i see a bunch of delinquents inside behaving idiotically, then i'm not going in, no matter how good i heard its food was. most civil people will probably do the same, hence Fulton has a point, no matter how bad his game may be. why should i have to put up with immaturity, or devalue my experience with Live by turning off voice-chat, etc., especially since i have to pay for it?
more like making crap games is ruining sales. Make a good enough game and people will play it even with the annoying yankie kids. or follow the example of your peers coz last time I looked both COD and Halo both have mute buttons.
i agree about yanks i mean i was doing team doubles on halo and some little c**t come on his headset after the game calling us s**t ans stuff evan tho we just beat him
unfortunately he has a point that there are loads of gobby snooker cues on xbox live, i just mute them if the game gives the option (which is the usual trend now with most online versions of games), but i will say this, its not idiots ruining sales for him, its his dev team.... the game is utter s**te....
A non gamer wouldn't play shadowrun anyway. He's right about the Aholes on LIVE though. A 48 hour free pass to LIVE is MORE than enough time for many to figure out they don't want to pay $50 a year to be verbally assaulted. If I'm playing online without friends the headset stays off.
I agree with the dev. Voice chat has ruined online gaming. It takes me out of the element when my heavily armed wingman sound like hes 12. Voice chat should be removed from all games, IMO
XBox Live is becoming very popularly known as "Abuse HQ". Yes, log into any random XBox Live game if you want to experience real abuse. Well M$, so much for the excellence of your online service when most of its inhabitants are incapable of behaving in a respectable & civilised manner.
A sentance I once read on a forum by a gamer with experience of Live summed it up more than any other: "Xbox Live has 8 million subscribed users. 95% of them are retards".
completely off topic here, but can someone give me some opinions on warhawk as im thinking of getting it, is it 'really' good????
I'd recommend it 100 percent even though I've never played COD4 online which is apparently better.
P.S. I think I may be a Playstation tard,
cheers for the reply mate, i have cod4 on my 360, its a good game but i dont think its all people crack it up to be, its full of campers which i think ruins a good shooter, shows they havent got any balls when it comes to a challenge (basically the cowards way of playing a shooter). ill give warhawk a blast i think, having vehicles in games adds a nice element to a shooter i think...
ps- why would you be a tard??? only reason id think anyone is a tard on these boards is if theyre out and out fanboys who dont accept that all the consoles have good and bad points, in fact it says it all in my sig below...
What's all this talk about casual gamers being put off? I'm what you'd call a hardcore gamer and find the crap you have to endure in online gaming so tiresome that I don't bother playing online most of the time.
It always makes me laugh when reviewers give a game higher marks for its online functionality when I know that adolscent idiots will put me off experiencing those game elements almosts permanently.
The anonymity of being online allows people to behave in a way that would be completely unacceptable elsewhere and needs to be stopped. Just because this guys game was a huge failure doesn't change that. Try sitting in a Halo 3 lobby and see how long it is before some idiot starts talking s**t...
Firstly, people don't play Shadowrun because the game is crap, not because of the abuse you often find on any online game. Secondly, I think voice chat is a great feature especially if you're playing a game that requires teamwork of social aspects. All these people saying they don't need or want voice chat are the same people that cause gamers to be labeled as anti-social geeks that stay locked in their room on a summers day playing games... Finally, you will encounter this sort of abuse where ever you go on the internet. Sadly it's more apparent on LIVE as it has alot more users than PSN or Wii's Wi-Fi and consoles also come with a headset as standard unlike PS3 and Wii where you can't even chat online!
I'm in the camp that thinks 'if you're gonna mute everyone, why play online at all'? After all, the only way that we can tell we're playing against human opponents is the (trash) talk coming from their headset - otherwise, may as well play against bots off-line. *shrug*
However, some people on live really are dicks, and contrary to popular belief, it's not just American kids. Friday night, me and some pals were on CoD4, and a grown American man was telling us to 'f*ck off and quit, you noobs', before we'd even had a game with him (I was so glad he was my first kill). Obviously, the moron didn't realise that if every person he insulted quit out, he'd have no-one to play with... Not too smart.
Sadly, I can't see this being rectified particularly easily, unless MS add GMs like MMOs do, and add a report button. A game gets too many reports, a GM can step in to monitor the game - if they deem a persons behaviour to be unacceptable after viewing the game, they can issue an immediate 24 hour ban.
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