Sony Computer Entertainment boss Kaz Hirai has said that the era when download distribution of games takes over from disc media is "way off" because, by and large, the internet isn't ready.
Speaking of theoretical 'discless consoles' that would rely completely on a Steam-style downloads, Hirai said: "I think that's going to be a little way off.
"Even with PS3, today, you're talking about games that take 14, 15Gb, even upwards of 20Gb," he explained. "If you try to offer that complete game as a download, you can do that, but what is the consumer experience going to be like?"
It would take ages, is what he's saying. And the world's internet infrastructure and install base isn't there yet.
"You also have to realise that different countries all have broadband, but the speeds are different, and then there are some territories where there isn't too much broadband infrastructure at this point in time."
So discs are here to stay. "When you look at it from a worldwide business perspective, the most efficient way of delivering 50 gigabytes, say, is going to be on a disk for a while to come.
"That's not to say we're not doing the online stuff - which we are, through the PlayStation Store, but it's basically a combination that makes the most sense for us and consumers.
"That's why in some instances, we'll offer both versions, like with Gran Turismo 5: Prologue," Hirai told semi-official blog, ThreeSpeech.
This reminds me of the article that Internet Service Providers reckoned we would be have no internet by 2012, because the infastructre cannot support the increase of consumer volume.
Still, it took me an hour to download Pain!, so I'd imagine that a downloadable GTA IV would take a year
One thing to consider in all this is the fact that, with a disc copy of a game, we can exchange the physical product for something else. Can't do that if everyone is downloading games. If you don't like it, or get bored quickly, then tough. Not a place I would personally like to be.
This article is just him saying the same as I've been saying for months. Digital distribution takes too long and console storage is too expensive to be worth the bother.
Blu-ray disc = 50Gb. Even on a 24Mb connection (the fastest the UK has) at a full speed you're talking a full day at least to download and far too big to fit on a standard issue 360 or PS3 hard drive.
So you'd need to explain to players that they can't play that new game until the telecom company increase their bandwidth allowance or decreases their contention ratio. And you'd need to explain to developers why either nobody is buying their game or that nobody is playing it even 2 days after release.
The next gen will NEED physical media ability and that will be Blu-ray. 360 fanboys get used to the idea.
One thing to consider in all this is the fact that, with a disc copy of a game, we can exchange the physical product for something else. Can't do that if everyone is downloading games. If you don't like it, or get bored quickly, then tough. Not a place I would personally like to be.
good point mark and one i hadn't thought of. it would be like owning a virtual game. my advise, bring back the cartridge
Nothing else to add really. Microsoft really need to take note here. Digital downloads of a significant size IMO are way off yet. Infrastructure is just not ready and I doubt it will for a while
Ah, clearly a well educated man who thinks about the bigger picture and strives to get his point across in a clear and well thought out fashion without enlisting the use of hear'say and marketing bull plop.
This article is just him saying the same as I've been saying for months. Digital distribution takes too long and console storage is too expensive to be worth the bother.
Blu-ray disc = 50Gb. Even on a 24Mb connection (the fastest the UK has) at a full speed you're talking a full day at least to download and far too big to fit on a standard issue 360 or PS3 hard drive.
So you'd need to explain to players that they can't play that new game until the telecom company increase their bandwidth allowance or decreases their contention ratio. And you'd need to explain to developers why either nobody is buying their game or that nobody is playing it even 2 days after release.
The next gen will NEED physical media ability and that will be Blu-ray. 360 fanboys get used to the idea.
good point but with games you would download something heavily compressed then uncompress when downloaded so download time would be reduced. also, although blu-ray can hold 50GB they rarely fill that much space so the actual size of downloads for now could be a heck of a lot lower when compressed. if consoles have 1TB hard rives which are common place for PC's now then storage size wouldnt be that much or an issue, especially if you could add another and use that as well.
also, if it takes a day or 2 to order a game via the internet then surely a download that takes 1 day is not that bad.
i think the sony guy is right that it is feasible but i think there is room for both going forward. i can see downloads taking over but not for a long time.
This article is just him saying the same as I've been saying for months. Digital distribution takes too long and console storage is too expensive to be worth the bother.
Blu-ray disc = 50Gb. Even on a 24Mb connection (the fastest the UK has) at a full speed you're talking a full day at least to download and far too big to fit on a standard issue 360 or PS3 hard drive.
So you'd need to explain to players that they can't play that new game until the telecom company increase their bandwidth allowance or decreases their contention ratio. And you'd need to explain to developers why either nobody is buying their game or that nobody is playing it even 2 days after release.
The next gen will NEED physical media ability and that will be Blu-ray. 360 fanboys get used to the idea.
good point but with games you would download something heavily compressed then uncompress when downloaded so download time would be reduced. also, although blu-ray can hold 50GB they rarely fill that much space so the actual size of downloads for now could be a heck of a lot lower when compressed. if consoles have 1TB hard rives which are common place for PC's now then storage size wouldnt be that much or an issue, especially if you could add another and use that as well.
also, if it takes a day or 2 to order a game via the internet then surely a download that takes 1 day is not that bad.
i think the sony guy is right that it is feasible but i think there is room for both going forward. i can see downloads taking over but not for a long time.
Good article.
I think the question you're both alluding to is "when will the next gen show up?"
If PS4 is another 4 years away for example, then downloads probably won't take over until PS5's generation.
For those who are on Virgin Media / cable, you'll notice they've updated their T&C's. More bandwidth throttling is coming.
All assuming the "oil crisis" doesn't prevent us from playing games consoles in the next 15 years or so!
Compression is one thing, but I think if developers weren't restricted by having to fit to a certain size they would make games bigger than we currently get on a standard DVD. I'm not saying we need 50Gb worth of stuff, but it'd be amazing for content. I for one would love to see Mass Effect with 50Gb worth of content over the 8Gb we got before
The other thing to consider is the actual transfer of the files. Who would host a file that big that is going to be downloaded that often? Look at GTA4 - 8 million downloads of a few gigs? No server in the world would stand up to that. The only way round that would be P2P sharing, but then you raise serious security issues.
It's simply not practical yet. My guess is it'll be nearly a decade before mass digital distribution becomes practical.
Technically if they start to release digital downloads the games should cost alot less than the disc versions. Due to the lack of disc production, packing etc. however looking at the PS Store they are selling PSP titles now for Ł14.99, same as the RRP! It should imo only cost Ł7.50 or less!
Its not just the case of the internet cant take it, its more of them reducing the prices of content that is downloadable. And making things cost the same across the world, and not screw over one region - PAL region comes to mind!
The next gen will NEED physical media ability and that will be Blu-ray. 360 fanboys get used to the idea.
I agree that the next-gen will probably still use physical media, although I reckon they'll add provision to start supporting large-scale downloads.
As for it definitely being Blu-Ray... I don't see how you came to that conclusion. There's already a tried and tested high-capacity disc format out there that's ready to roll out given very little notice, and they won't need to pay royalties to the BDA for it either.
I'd put money down on Microsoft resurrecting HD-DVD as a pure gaming format for their next-gen console, as it makes a hell of a lot of sense from their perspective, and would be much cheaper both in components, and 'other payments'.
For those who are on Virgin Media / cable, you'll notice they've updated their T&C's. More bandwidth throttling is coming.
I was going to mention bandwidth throttling but I see you've beat me to it.
There's another related issue, and that of course is monthly usage limits - ISPs seem to be getting rid of unlimited services these days, or charging a fortune for the privelege, and as such I guess most of us on ADSL have some sort of monthly usage limit. IIRC mine's about 30 or 40GB - would be blown away with a single Blu-Ray-sized download...
Makes me wonder what Game, Game Station, Amazon, Play, CD-Wow, etc etc etc would make of completely digital downloads, considering it would make them all defunct. Personally, I can see them taking steps to ensure it didn't happen.
Also, the cynic in me says that one 'seller' means one price, and I guaran-damn-tee that price won't be cheap...
I'm happy it's a long way off, nothing like owning the physical product. A great way of trying out games is having your friend bring his copy round when you hang out so you play the multiplayer and get a taste. I've bought many games after experiencing them that way. How will we do that with this digital crap?
Some of you will say demos and in most cases demos show off enough of the game for you to get it. Those time limited ones however, or the ones that don't give you a taste of the multiplayer don't tell the full story. I've even played a demo once on the PC that only allowed you to play it once for 5 mins, then force you to uninstall it! That game wasn't purchased.
When digital distribution does take over I still hope the physical product is still around. It should be, after all it's 2008 and they still make music on vinyl for the 'purists.'
Good article, nice to see a company rep speaking about something without jabs being taken at the competition.
Since when did MS say that the next-gen of consoles would be using digitally distributed software as the norm? They said it would be in the future and didn't give a date...so that could be 15 years from now.
Jesus bloody fecking christ. This Sony fanboyism has just radically changed from being able to moan about how many sales the PS3 has sold to now "Ooh ooh, Sony are much nicer and friendlier now than MS! Sony only tell the truth and MS is all lies!" You retards. Stop taking the obvious truth as f**king gospel and p**s off.
Technically if they start to release digital downloads the games should cost alot less than the disc versions. Due to the lack of disc production, packing etc. however looking at the PS Store they are selling PSP titles now for Ł14.99, same as the RRP! It should imo only cost Ł7.50 or less!
Its not just the case of the internet cant take it, its more of them reducing the prices of content that is downloadable. And making things cost the same across the world, and not screw over one region - PAL region comes to mind!
Nice theory, but I get the feeling that may not be the case.
Printing DVD's / BD's is done on huge production lines dedicated to the task and n million can be printed faster than n million can be downloaded.
The issue I'm trying to point out there is that bandwidth is not a cheap or plentiful resource. If it were, we wouldn't still be using discs.
Bandwidth will probably always remain more expensive than plastic discs. If you think about it, when oil -> plastic -> DVD's becomes as expensive as bandwidth per person, the world will have some really serious energy, transportation and manufacturing problems. Oh and probably a few wars.
As said before, steam is a great example of digital downloads, I managed to get the orange box in less than 4 hours on a half meg connection, no joke. It's possible, but the console manufacturers would need to use larger removable storage, and make an affordable addon.
The 20GB on the 360 is a bit of a joke, mine is already half full with just arcade games, and I'm not paying nearly Ł100 for a larger disk.
The PS3 would need a larger disc for this sort of thing aswell.
It's possible to do, but I certainly don't think it's possible in the UK with our crappy connection and bandwidth limitations.
I hear China / Japan have some of the best internet speeds in the world (might be wrong), if it's true it would probably be feasible over there.
The next gen will NEED physical media ability and that will be Blu-ray. 360 fanboys get used to the idea.
I agree that the next-gen will probably still use physical media, although I reckon they'll add provision to start supporting large-scale downloads.
As for it definitely being Blu-Ray... I don't see how you came to that conclusion. There's already a tried and tested high-capacity disc format out there that's ready to roll out given very little notice, and they won't need to pay royalties to the BDA for it either.
I'd put money down on Microsoft resurrecting HD-DVD as a pure gaming format for their next-gen console, as it makes a hell of a lot of sense from their perspective, and would be much cheaper both in components, and 'other payments'.
SEGA did something similar with Dreamcast so your idea is very possible.
MS have never come out and said that they want to go with downloads, but when you claim something is the future, it generally means that's the way you're heading.
And there's no way they'll try to bring back HD DVD. By the time the next console comes along Blu-ray will be in too many homes for another format to make it. Especially since Toshiba has already said they won't make it any more - so they'd have even more of a challenge persuading another company to make them as well.
And don't try the "but it's a Sony product" argument, because they already have claims on nearly every CD and DVD in the world
The good thing about digital downloads is money goes to less people. Which in theory means cheaper games. No doubt the reality is quite different... I still prefer my discs anyway.
And there's no way they'll try to bring back HD DVD. By the time the next console comes along Blu-ray will be in too many homes for another format to make it. Especially since Toshiba has already said they won't make it any more - so they'd have even more of a challenge persuading another company to make them as well.
I think the idea of a proprietary format for a future Microsoft gaming platform is possible. It doesn't need to be HD DVD specifically.
Cartridges / memory is too expensive. Bandwidth is also too expensive - ISP's will demand compensation.
If you take a look at the news, you'll see a lot of new disc formats being created, some of which are bigger than BR currently provides. I'm sure a lot of those smaller companies developing these technologies would love to have some investment from Microsoft.
ya, this makes total sense. id much rather travel to the shop and back than watch that little progress bar go slowly up percent by percent....even if the shop route takes longer...
What about the possibility of downloading from a store, like I believe they did in China with their N64 (I think) type machine, to combat piracy. The stores themselves have the pain of DLing the game, and we, the customer, upload to some sort of temporary storage medium (like a flash card), and then download it from that to our consoles. So you have the option of a lengthy download, or a qiucker one that still utilises a retail outlet (and some effort) - which also works for those with no net access.
Wouldn't surprise me if what happened was closer to this.
What about the possibility of downloading from a store, like I believe they did in China with their N64 (I think) type machine, to combat piracy. The stores themselves have the pain of DLing the game, and we, the customer, upload to some sort of temporary storage medium (like a flash card), and then download it from that to our consoles. So you have the option of a lengthy download, or a qiucker one that still utilises a retail outlet (and some effort) - which also works for those with no net access.
Wouldn't surprise me if what happened was closer to this.
I'm just thinking out loud really.
/pastry induced rambling
Interesting idea, except the 'flash cards' would also need to be upgraded (not enough space). If you look about, you'll note that flash is very expensive, limited in size and costs more to produce than discs.
the advantage of some sort of flash memory is it is compact, has no moving parts so theoretically reliablity is better. By taking the DVD/BR drive out of the consoles just think how small they could make them.
Price is an issue though, but compared with just just a year or so ago it is dirt cheap and can only get cheaper; I get given a free one by random groups regularly, so they can't be that pricey.
I would say Console and PC in perfect harmoney...Download on your PC and then just like usign media centre it is available to the console. Its obvious.
Also just like steam did with Half Life, download the game you pre ordered before release date and then just DRM in reverse allow it be played on the day.
Thats the console future sorted, now onto Cancer and AIDS....
the advantage of some sort of flash memory is it is compact, has no moving parts so theoretically reliablity is better. By taking the DVD/BR drive out of the consoles just think how small they could make them.
Price is an issue though, but compared with just just a year or so ago it is dirt cheap and can only get cheaper; I get given a free one by random groups regularly, so they can't be that pricey.
Do some actual research on price and compare memory size per Ł.p.
Flash manufacturing is more expensive than printing discs. Always has been, always will be.
Ah Ken, of course you'd say that. Your Blu Ray baby hasn't even learned to walk yet, never mind run from the rabid wolf that is digital distribution.
What people don't realize is that digital distribution can be done in other forms than downloads. Take a firewire hard drive, for example. Put a firewire port into a console, hook up a 500 GB HD, and you have faster access speeds than you would have off of optical media, with a lot less heat buildup inside the system. No laser, no internal HD, it'd be a breeze (no pun intended ) to build a high end system without wasting time on keeping the unit supercooled.
Back on the firewire hard drive. You can unplug the drive anytime you want, and have it embedded with a registered serial number. Take your drive to your local game dealer, they register your purchase online, and load the game onto the drive from their local server in the store. If your HD fails, they verify the failed HD serial number, authorize a new HD for your account, and you can get your games added back on, free of charge. Need more HD space? Buy another firewire HD drive, and you're all set.
I see this as the way that the industry will go, in addition to downloadable content. Optical media has one foot in the grave.
Before you go and say "but I like holding onto physical copies of games, movies, music, etc" just remember that all that manufacturing takes up resources (plastic is made from oil products, energy costs to run assembly lines). Also, by not having to spend money making "hard copies", developers/publishers can pass the savings from the process to the customer in the form of cheaper games. Also, videogames won't have to fight for shelf space, as they'd all just be digital, on the local servers. You won't have to worry about a game being sold out, or phased out due to age. It will always be there sitting on the server, waiting to be copied to your HD.
Of course, a 500GB FW HD is common these days, who's to say that a TB FW HD won't be common within the next 4 years? Or maybe even that a faster port connection, faster than firewire might be available by then?
The current internet may be a thing of the past in times to come anyway! Apparantly they are working on a new method call The Grid which is said to be 10,000x faster than broadband!
Put a firewire port into a console, hook up a 500 GB HD, and you have faster access speeds than you would have off of optical media, with a lot less heat buildup inside the system. No laser, no internal HD, it'd be a breeze (no pun intended ) to build a high end system without wasting time on keeping the unit supercooled.
Back on the firewire hard drive. You can unplug the drive anytime you want, and have it embedded with a registered serial number. Take your drive to your local game dealer, they register your purchase online, and load the game onto the drive from their local server in the store. If your HD fails, they verify the failed HD serial number, authorize a new HD for your account, and you can get your games added back on, free of charge. Need more HD space? Buy another firewire HD drive, and you're all set.
...& this is all MUCH simpler & easier than 'go to shop, select disc, pay money'?
What about the possibility of downloading from a store, like I believe they did in China with their N64 (I think) type machine, to combat piracy. The stores themselves have the pain of DLing the game, and we, the customer, upload to some sort of temporary storage medium (like a flash card), and then download it from that to our consoles. So you have the option of a lengthy download, or a qiucker one that still utilises a retail outlet (and some effort) - which also works for those with no net access.
Wouldn't surprise me if what happened was closer to this.
I'm just thinking out loud really.
/pastry induced rambling
Interesting idea, except the 'flash cards' would also need to be upgraded (not enough space). If you look about, you'll note that flash is very expensive, limited in size and costs more to produce than discs.
I just used flash cards as an example here - some sort of medium you can upload data too, like a flash card/memory stick/whatever. I assume if we are talking about theoretical digital distribution, we can also assume that any tech we have now will also be 'bettered'.
...& this is all MUCH simpler & easier than 'go to shop, select disc, pay money'?
Well to simplify the actual customer's part - 'Take drive to store, give to person, select games, go play some demos while you wait, pay money.' Only slightly more complicated, but cheaper, more space for games, no scratched discs, no overheating consoles, environmentally friendly, and less clutter in the house.
...& this is all MUCH simpler & easier than 'go to shop, select disc, pay money'?
Well to simplify the actual customer's part - 'Take drive to store, give to person, select games, go play some demos while you wait, pay money.' Only slightly more complicated, but cheaper, more space for games, no scratched discs, no overheating consoles, environmentally friendly, and less clutter in the house.
Translates to....
* More chance of drive breaking in transit. Increased replacement cost for the owner / at owner's risk.
* More chance of drive and high value data being stolen, mugged or lynched en route to shops.
* Drive corruption results in all data being lost, not just one scratched disc / copy of game that can be replaced free of charge (excl.p&p).
* Large queues at shops while idiot shop attendants FAIL to copy the games you want.
* Last minute panic decisions about what to remove from your drive when it runs out of space. Results in deleting s/w you wanted to keep and longer delays.
* Regular drive updates because the games are now > X GB.
I just used flash cards as an example here - some sort of medium you can upload data too, like a flash card/memory stick/whatever. I assume if we are talking about theoretical digital distribution, we can also assume that any tech we have now will also be 'bettered'.
Like a reliable Xbox360 or a cheap Playstation 3
If it were technically already possible - we'd have it already and it would be cheap.
Seriously...
Notebook manufacturers are very keen on getting solid state (read: Flash mem) hard drives built in. Consumers pay a very large premium for it even at 32GB. If the cost comes down eventually - great, but flash has a limited # of write cycles and is inherently slow.
It still doesn't get anywhere near the amount of data that can be packed into an optical disc. A Blu-Ray compatible drive can now store 1TB on a disc. http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/05/28/1659255.shtml
A flash drive/portable hard drive could be used to transport data from a public kiosk to a home console hard drive very easily, and would solve the whole download bandwidth problem. If your worried about loosing data, don't, as any service would keep a record of what you have paid for (like Steam) and you could allways download it again (for free) latter. Publishers would have a better idea of how many copies of each game have sold, and who are buying them, and the prices should go down due to savings in distribution channels. No more waiting in line to pay for games, as even a small kiosk could serve 3-6 people at once, and you could put them anywhere too, from petrol stations to corner shops or supermarkets. No more 2nd hand games chocking the market, taking sales away from new games, which would make Sony very happy, as that's one of their pet hates.
* More chance of drive breaking in transit. Increased replacement cost for the owner / at owner's risk.
* More chance of drive and high value data being stolen, mugged or lynched en route to shops.
* Drive corruption results in all data being lost, not just one scratched disc / copy of game that can be replaced free of charge (excl.p&p).
* Large queues at shops while idiot shop attendants FAIL to copy the games you want.
* Last minute panic decisions about what to remove from your drive when it runs out of space. Results in deleting s/w you wanted to keep and longer delays.
* Regular drive updates because the games are now > X GB.
I think that has to be the most retarded post I've ever seen from you. You sound like a scared white boy in the hood. So, by your post, people should never drive anywhere due to fear of being carjacked or mugged. Besides, FW drives are small enough to fit into a backpack, purse, etc. You're not exactly carrying a PS3 around.
Your only thought that holds any water is possibly long queue lines due to incompetent staff, but you get that when purchasing disc based games too.
You chose to ignore the original post of mine, where I said if the drive fails, the games get replaced for free (and possibly the drive too, depending on warranty). With that, you can go out the same day and get your games added back in, instead of waiting 2 weeks to get a disc sent out and returned (recently experienced this with GH 3)
If a game got deleted by mistake, its in the system as purchased, so it'd just get added back in. If you wanted more space, get a 2nd drive for more game storage. Realistically though, lets say that the average game becomes 20 GB (5 less than single layer Blu Ray max capacity). That means that at current, at 500gb drive, you could get 50 games on there. I don't know how many games you have owned for one system, but my highest was 40. So even in an extreme case, 2 HDs would cover your needs, or if they put out 1 TB drive, giving you space for 100 games.
I take pride in your response though, because it simply backs that I have a very strong argument for such a system to replace optical media.
I thought you were talking about Firewire hard drives in your post, not flash drive? (...thinks back to...200 people queueing at a GTA4 midnight launch outside the game shop. 200 people clutching their hard drives all waiting patiently to download the game...cn you picture the scene? I can't... What works better is..2 mins per customer- 'GTA4 please, Ł40 please, thank you bye')
Besides whats the largest capacity flash drive, 32GB? 500GB flash drive is still a looooooooooonnnnngggggggg ways off.
Also, these 'download from kiosks in shops' are nothing new. They were available in Japan for the Nes & the Snes & had little success, even Nintendo though had a virtual monopoly of the games market in japan at the time.
* More chance of drive breaking in transit. Increased replacement cost for the owner / at owner's risk.
People use flash drives/ipods/portable hard drives all the time without greaking them, they're alot studier than you think.
* More chance of drive and high value data being stolen, mugged or lynched en route to shops.
Any portable drive would be locked to your home system, making it useless to anyone else.
* Drive corruption results in all data being lost, not just one scratched disc / copy of game that can be replaced free of charge (excl.p&p).
Any data lost would be replaced free of charge.
* Large queues at shops while idiot shop attendants FAIL to copy the games you want.
Self service kiosks.
* Last minute panic decisions about what to remove from your drive when it runs out of space. Results in deleting s/w you wanted to keep and longer delays.
It's only used to transport/transfer data between kiosk and home, it's not meant to be used to play game from.
* Regular drive updates because the games are now > X GB.
Small update downloads can be accessed from home, or picked up on next trip to kiosk.
Even though the Virtual Console & Steam let you redownload your purchases, its not a given that any kiosk download system will be the same...
The worlds favourite online music store doesn't let you. Even though it keeps track of all of your purchases & the tracks have DRM, iTunes doesn't let you redownload purchased tracks
...it'll depend on how greedy they are
Also, if games are locked to individual systems that means you can't borrow/lend games to your mates anymore...maybe not as relevant to us adults, but big problem for kids though (I used to borrow/lend lots of games amongst my friends when I was in school)
I thought you were talking about Firewire hard drives in your post, not flash drive?
I was, someone else wasn't. I was talking about FW drives. and my bad on the math, I was doing the math for the 1tb while typing the 500 gb in my head.
Word on the street is the coming of USB 3.0 in the next 2 years. Estimated speed would allow for a 50 GB transfer in a minute and a half. Not exactly a long time to get a game downloaded.
I understand your point on the launch, that's true. People just need to stop having midnight launch parties. Tell the people to suck it up and wait till 9 am when the shop opens.
I'd put money down on Microsoft resurrecting HD-DVD as a pure gaming format for their next-gen console, as it makes a hell of a lot of sense from their perspective, and would be much cheaper both in components, and 'other payments'.
Toshiba own the rights to HD-DVD along with a few other minor developers. Microsoft will either have to license the technology off them or buy it out completely. Either method will add significant costs to the next generation Xbox if Microsoft go down this route.
Blu ray, like it or not is fast becoming the standard on PC's now as well. Microsoft may have no option but to adopt it. There are a few other storage options out there that Microsoft could investigate. I've seen optical laser drives with the potential to read discs containing over 10 terabytes of data in a few seconds.
Toshiba own the rights to HD-DVD along with a few other minor developers. Microsoft will either have to license the technology off them or buy it out completely. Either method will add significant costs to the next generation Xbox if Microsoft go down this route.
That argument makes no sense. Unless they build their own proprietary storage medium, they're going to have to "license the technology off them or buy it out completely" from somebody, which will add significant costs whichever format they go with.
We already know that HD-DVD is physically cheaper to manufacture, and with Toshiba reportedly losing big bucks on it, they're bound to undercut the BDA and make a generous deal with MS if it means making a bit of that cash back. The technology is proven, the manufacturing equipment will be still out there somewhere, job's a good 'un.
Also, I'd like to see a good citation for your "Blu ray, like it or not is fast becoming the standard on PC's now as well." statement as well. I'd consider myself a hardened PC user/builder, and I've yet to see a single use for a BD-ROM drive apart from to read movie discs.
Funny enough I've just bought a new PC of Dell with a Blu Ray drive as standard... so maybe I just dreamt it. Oh look... there it is there beside me.. Blu Ray as standard.. oh they don't make Blu Ray DvD burners sorry my mistake.. what... they do. DOH!
You can take it what ever way you want Microsoft will never use HD DVD again. It wasn't an arguement it's a statement of fact. Toshiba have already written off any HD-DVD costs in their last accounts. Their stocks dropped 4% because of it. HD DVD is gone.. dead.. extinct.. the war is over. Sony have already licenced out Blu Ray, the same way Philips did with DVD. You can buy blu ray players of LG, Samsung, Hitachi even bloody Toshiba in a few months. Microsoft don't even have to go to Sony to buy them now.
Funny enough I've just bought a new PC of Dell with a Blu Ray drive as standard... so maybe I just dreamt it. Oh look... there it is there beside me.. Blu Ray as standard.. oh they don't make Blu Ray DvD burners sorry my mistake.. what... they do. DOH!
You can take it what ever way you want Microsoft will never use HD DVD again. It wasn't an arguement it's a statement of fact. Toshiba have already written off any HD-DVD costs in their last accounts. Their stocks dropped 4% because of it. HD DVD is gone.. dead.. extinct.. the war is over. Sony have already licenced out Blu Ray, the same way Philips did with DVD. You can buy blu ray players of LG, Samsung, Hitachi even bloody Toshiba in a few months. Microsoft don't even have to go to Sony to buy them now.
Don't listen to Sunscramble. He is deluded and being an anti-Sony xbot again, even though it is obvious HD-DVD is dead, he will not accept it.
It tell you if Microsoft bring back HD-DVD from the dead and put it into the next Xbox720 I'll cut off my foreskin. It won't happen and is a ludicrous idea.
Funny enough I've just bought a new PC of Dell with a Blu Ray drive as standard... so maybe I just dreamt it. Oh look... there it is there beside me.. Blu Ray as standard.. oh they don't make Blu Ray DvD burners sorry my mistake.. what... they do. DOH!
You can take it what ever way you want Microsoft will never use HD DVD again. It wasn't an arguement it's a statement of fact. Toshiba have already written off any HD-DVD costs in their last accounts. Their stocks dropped 4% because of it. HD DVD is gone.. dead.. extinct.. the war is over. Sony have already licenced out Blu Ray, the same way Philips did with DVD. You can buy blu ray players of LG, Samsung, Hitachi even bloody Toshiba in a few months. Microsoft don't even have to go to Sony to buy them now.
Don't listen to Sunscramble. He is deluded and being an anti-Sony xbot again, even though it is obvious HD-DVD is dead, he will not accept it.
It tell you if Microsoft bring back HD-DVD from the dead and put it into the next Xbox720 I'll cut off my foreskin. It won't happen and is a ludicrous idea.
Oh, Suivaloom. Are you still throwing the accusations? I thought you would have known better, after I sent you running from that that other thread after I conclusively proved that you were a deluded fanboy, and that I am not, and that your opinion was worth a grand total of nothing around these parts anymore.
Now, explain to me how MS using HD-DVD makes me an "anti-Sony xbot". Oh, you can't. I win again, fanboy!
Thank god because I dont have Xbox Live and I dont plan on getting an adsl connection anytime soon either. Plus there is no way in hell that I would buy something digital instead of something physical that i can touch. Just like my DVD collection I am never letting go of that. Oh and when they do make consoles like that hopefully you will still be able to buy boxes as an alternative lol. If not, well thats the end of gaming for me.
Funny enough I've just bought a new PC of Dell with a Blu Ray drive as standard... so maybe I just dreamt it. Oh look... there it is there beside me.. Blu Ray as standard.. oh they don't make Blu Ray DvD burners sorry my mistake.. what... they do. DOH!
You can take it what ever way you want Microsoft will never use HD DVD again. It wasn't an arguement it's a statement of fact. Toshiba have already written off any HD-DVD costs in their last accounts. Their stocks dropped 4% because of it. HD DVD is gone.. dead.. extinct.. the war is over. Sony have already licenced out Blu Ray, the same way Philips did with DVD. You can buy blu ray players of LG, Samsung, Hitachi even bloody Toshiba in a few months. Microsoft don't even have to go to Sony to buy them now.
Don't listen to Sunscramble. He is deluded and being an anti-Sony xbot again, even though it is obvious HD-DVD is dead, he will not accept it.
It tell you if Microsoft bring back HD-DVD from the dead and put it into the next Xbox720 I'll cut off my foreskin. It won't happen and is a ludicrous idea.
Oh, Suivaloom. Are you still throwing the accusations? I thought you would have known better, after I sent you running from that that other thread after I conclusively proved that you were a deluded fanboy, and that I am not, and that your opinion was worth a grand total of nothing around these parts anymore.
Now, explain to me how MS using HD-DVD makes me an "anti-Sony xbot". Oh, you can't. I win again, fanboy!
i think sunscramble is right. it would be cool if xbox720 used hd dvd. i don't see why not, and it would be good for people who bought the hd dvd ad on for xbox360, because then their hd dvd's would still work in xbox 720 and they could trade in their 360's.
unless you are backing up your hard disk entire, which is totally un-necessary i can't see any reason why you would need a blu ray writer in a pc, unless you are doing some kind of high end art graphics stuff and then you would probably be using a mac. so really high definition movies is the only real use for blu ray in pc. and then you would need a monitor that supports 1980 x 1080 for it to be worthwile anyway.
i think the ps3 is a very poorly designed console and the ps3 fan boys are hurting themselves by buying the thing. using one blu ray disc for a game instead of 4 or 5 dvds is nothing more than a gimmick and a bad one when you consider the mandatory ps3 installs. i think sony only put blu ray in the ps3 so that they could force a win in the next gen format war. i think sony have used and abused the playstation fan base. basically, sony have betrayed the gamers.
unless you are backing up your hard disk entire, which is totally un-necessary i can't see any reason why you would need a blu ray writer in a pc, unless you are doing some kind of high end art graphics stuff and then you would probably be using a mac. so really high definition movies is the only real use for blu ray in pc. and then you would need a monitor that supports 1980 x 1080 for it to be worthwile anyway.
i think the ps3 is a very poorly designed console and the ps3 fan boys are hurting themselves by buying the thing. using one blu ray disc for a game instead of 4 or 5 dvds is nothing more than a gimmick and a bad one when you consider the mandatory ps3 installs. i think sony only put blu ray in the ps3 so that they could force a win in the next gen format war. i think sony have used and abused the playstation fan base. basically, sony have betrayed the gamers.
I've over terabyte of music on my PC's harddrive. I've made back up copies onto Blu Ray. Can you work out how many DVD's it would take to back that up? If we all had your attitude we would still be using floppy discs.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the PS3 is poorly designed and not mention the Xbox360's design faults. You clearly have never used a PS3. If Microsoft had thought more about gamers and less about profits the Xbox360 would have had a HD DVD drive build in. Every generation jump has used a new medium. From tape to floppy disc to cartridge to CD to DVD and now to Blu Ray. Microsoft won't have an issue using Blu Ray in the future either.
unless you are backing up your hard disk entire, which is totally un-necessary i can't see any reason why you would need a blu ray writer in a pc, unless you are doing some kind of high end art graphics stuff and then you would probably be using a mac. so really high definition movies is the only real use for blu ray in pc. and then you would need a monitor that supports 1980 x 1080 for it to be worthwile anyway.
i think the ps3 is a very poorly designed console and the ps3 fan boys are hurting themselves by buying the thing. using one blu ray disc for a game instead of 4 or 5 dvds is nothing more than a gimmick and a bad one when you consider the mandatory ps3 installs. i think sony only put blu ray in the ps3 so that they could force a win in the next gen format war. i think sony have used and abused the playstation fan base. basically, sony have betrayed the gamers.
I've over terabyte of music on my PC's harddrive. I've made back up copies onto Blu Ray. Can you work out how many DVD's it would take to back that up? If we all had your attitude we would still be using floppy discs.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the PS3 is poorly designed and not mention the Xbox360's design faults. You clearly have never used a PS3. If Microsoft had thought more about gamers and less about profits the Xbox360 would have had a HD DVD drive build in. Every generation jump has used a new medium. From tape to floppy disc to cartridge to CD to DVD and now to Blu Ray. Microsoft won't have an issue using Blu Ray in the future either.
you're facts are all wrong. new medium every generation jump? wrong.
a terabyte? ummm 1000 divide by 8, ooh such hard math, 125 dvds. vs 20 blu rays. but everyone knows access time for blu rays is slower than dvds. i dont know if this applies to write time but if it does it would take ages to back all that up. i would say you would be better off backing up to a second hard drive. you are obviously rich and the price of a standard blu ray writer doesnt bother you, most people would no way do it. i bet its only standard because its a premium pc, how much was it, over a thousand?
hang on, if microsoft had thought more about gamers and less about profits the xbox 360 would have an hd dvd drive built in? wrong. dvds are better for games. just as good as anything else, and cheaper than hd dvd and blu ray. so microsofts policy have been gamer friendly all along. i could easily see microsoft sticking to dvd in the next xbox, i would buy it. better disc swapping than forced installs. at least the rrod was an accident versus sony putting blu ray in ps3 and thereby shafting the gamer on purpose from day one.
unless you are backing up your hard disk entire, which is totally un-necessary i can't see any reason why you would need a blu ray writer in a pc, unless you are doing some kind of high end art graphics stuff and then you would probably be using a mac. so really high definition movies is the only real use for blu ray in pc. and then you would need a monitor that supports 1980 x 1080 for it to be worthwile anyway.
i think the ps3 is a very poorly designed console and the ps3 fan boys are hurting themselves by buying the thing. using one blu ray disc for a game instead of 4 or 5 dvds is nothing more than a gimmick and a bad one when you consider the mandatory ps3 installs. i think sony only put blu ray in the ps3 so that they could force a win in the next gen format war. i think sony have used and abused the playstation fan base. basically, sony have betrayed the gamers.
I've over terabyte of music on my PC's harddrive. I've made back up copies onto Blu Ray. Can you work out how many DVD's it would take to back that up? If we all had your attitude we would still be using floppy discs.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the PS3 is poorly designed and not mention the Xbox360's design faults. You clearly have never used a PS3. If Microsoft had thought more about gamers and less about profits the Xbox360 would have had a HD DVD drive build in. Every generation jump has used a new medium. From tape to floppy disc to cartridge to CD to DVD and now to Blu Ray. Microsoft won't have an issue using Blu Ray in the future either.
you're facts are all wrong. new medium every generation jump? wrong.
a terabyte? ummm 1000 divide by 8, ooh such hard math, 125 dvds. vs 20 blu rays. but everyone knows access time for blu rays is slower than dvds. i dont know if this applies to write time but if it does it would take ages to back all that up. i would say you would be better off backing up to a second hard drive. you are obviously rich and the price of a standard blu ray writer doesnt bother you, most people would no way do it. i bet its only standard because its a premium pc, how much was it, over a thousand?
hang on, if microsoft had thought more about gamers and less about profits the xbox 360 would have an hd dvd drive built in? wrong. dvds are better for games. just as good as anything else, and cheaper than hd dvd and blu ray. so microsofts policy have been gamer friendly all along. i could easily see microsoft sticking to dvd in the next xbox, i would buy it. better disc swapping than forced installs. at least the rrod was an accident versus sony putting blu ray in ps3 and thereby shafting the gamer on purpose from day one.
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