Remember Sony's Walkman brand? It used to be synonymous with portable music players until Apple's iPod wiped the floor with it, yet it's Sony that's come out on top of a recent survey on brand innovation.
Apple had to settle for second in the list after the Incite survey asked 500 people between the ages of 18 and 65 to name the brands they consider to be the most innovative.
Nintendo, renowned for innovation among the gaming community, ironically placed the lowest out of the three major console makers, slotting in at seventh below Microsoft at third. It seems that, despite selling a billion Wii consoles a day, Nintendo is yet to defeat Sony's brand power among the masses.
According to the concluding report (via Brand Republic), 74 percent of people like brands that are 'constantly moving forward', but 60 percent however opposed the creation of something new for the sake of it.
The top 20 brands the survey considered to be innovative are:
Most folk have heard of Sony. Therefor, this survey does'nt really give a true indication of peoples thoughts on innovation. Probably just said the first company that popped into their heads.
Personally, I think everybody will get sick of Nintendo's stupid marketing campaign (hate those horrible adverts!) and leave the Wii where it belongs. On the shelf.
Just what I was thinking. Tesco?! ...Sainsbury's ftw!
Nah but seriously, just the fact that they're well known has to be the explanation. Neither of them are particularly innovative. Props to Apple for the iPhone, but overall... I wouldn't give it to either of them, let alone compile a list of most innovative companies in the first place. What's the point?
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
You have to put what Nintendo has done in content - a little bit of inovation every 4-8 years isn't very much.
Sony will come out on top has it is involved in far more areas than Nintendo.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
etc...
Things that everyday people use (or used to use) everyday. The wii hasn't had the impact those have.
Tesco have led the way in getting people to forget what food should cost and taste like, as well as finding new exciting ways to put small independent retailers out of business. They get my vote!
To be brutally honest, from a gamer's point of view I can almost agree with Sony being up there.
It's not that they've actually innovated in any particular area of technology in any way at all, but in the way they've marketed their wares, brought in a whole new generation of people without changing anything too significant about the core values of gaming, and arguably done more than any other company to help dispel the image that videogames are little more than a children's toy.
Of course, I'd have to admit that as a snobby elitist gamer I'm not too happy about the way games have been changing in the wake of Sony's PlayStation, but I blame that more on developers following EA's business model than Sony themselves.
As another plus point, the sheer numbers of the PS2's immense userbase allowed developers to take some decent risks with their development, leading to a fair period of decent gaming innovation for a while.
just the fact that they're well known has to be the explanation. Neither of them are particularly innovative. Props to Apple for the iPhone....
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
Agree with your statement that this is basically a list of well know, mainstream companies and has little to do with innovation.
Whether or not you rate the Wii as a console is down to you, but it is Nintendo who have done the majority of innovation within the gaming industry over the years, setting the standard for most games consoles today;
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
Sony STEAL there 'ideas' of everyone else!! Especially Nintendo! erm lets eee... the D pad, rumble faetures, Anologue stick and ohh yeah... motion sensing. pah!
Sony have innovated fanboyism as proven by 90% of folk on this site. They have also, in my opinion, innovated within the advertisement area. My personal advert being the bouncy balls in San Francisco (now, now) for Bravia. So there.
its all marketing rubbish, hardly any of those companies innovate. most innovations come from scientists who then sell on to a big company, or do something new and a big company improves on it.
Apple dont innovate, they take existing technology and ideas and make them appeal to the masses through good design and clever marketing.
You have to put what Nintendo has done in content - a little bit of inovation every 4-8 years isn't very much.
Sony will come out on top has it is involved in far more areas than Nintendo.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
etc...
Things that everyday people use (or used to use) everyday. The wii hasn't had the impact those have.
These are all old tech though.
CD's (Co-developed with Philips)
Walkman (great innovation)
LCD TV's (Not invented by sony and they mainly use samsung screens anyway!)
Plasma TV's (Again not invented by sony)
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips)
Radio (not invented by sony)
Floppy Discs (ahh my amiga. Invented by IBM (although I think the drives were developed by sony))
Discman (one of the few things here invented by sony)
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well)
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable)
Very involved with the vhs-betamax war (betamax was the better of the 2 formats although Phlips2000 was better than them both)
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)
I mean come on should i list just a few products and innovations they have produced. Blu Ray, Cell, Oled TV's, Cybershot etc. In the software department movies like Spiderman, Bond and games like GOW2, Shadow of the Collosus, Ico not to mention Sony BMG music.
MS could definitley be acontender if most of their software and hardware didnt get released flawed most of the time.
The only thing Nintendo have produced thats innovative ia the Wii with some good games how on earth could they be voted number 1?
Whether or not you rate the Wii as a console is down to you, but it is Nintendo who have done the majority of innovation within the gaming industry over the years, setting the standard for most games consoles today;
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
Very good point mate... I had forgotten about all that.
I guess their poor attitude of late has made me forget all the good stuff they were responsible for over the years.
just the fact that they're well known has to be the explanation. Neither of them are particularly innovative. Props to Apple for the iPhone....
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
Agree with your statement that this is basically a list of well know, mainstream companies and has little to do with innovation.
Whether or not you rate the Wii as a console is down to you, but it is Nintendo who have done the majority of innovation within the gaming industry over the years, setting the standard for most games consoles today;
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
But they didn't ask people who were the most innotive games company.
Those things are tiny compared to the impact things like CD-roms and walkmans have had.
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
I'll give 'em the "Diamond layout" of the buttons, but the rest of those things were well alive in the gaming world long before Nintendo stuck 'em on their home consoles.
I had a game controller with an analogue thumbstick and a three-button triangle layout in 1984, a good 12 years before the N64 appeared. I used it to play Elite on my BBC Micro religiously.
Things like Rumble and 4-player were arcade staples long before Nintendo though to bring the idea to their own boxes. Even the D-Pad existed prior to Nintendo's adoption, I think that Milton Bradley got there first for some LCD game they'd put out.
I mean come on should i list just a few products and innovations they have produced. Blu Ray, Cell, Oled TV's, Cybershot etc. In the software department movies like Spiderman, Bond and games like GOW2, Shadow of the Collosus, Ico not to mention Sony BMG music.
MS could definitley be acontender if most of their software and hardware didnt get released flawed most of the time.
The only thing Nintendo have produced thats innovative ia the Wii with some good games how on earth could they be voted number 1?
Bluray (consortium not just sony) Cell (ibm, toshiba, and sony. Also Sony have now sold their stake to Toshiba) OLED (not invented by Sony) Cybershot (Kodak invented the digital camera) Spiderman (What is innovative about that?) Ico (I'll give you that one. Fantastic game)
You have to put what Nintendo has done in content - a little bit of inovation every 4-8 years isn't very much.
Sony will come out on top has it is involved in far more areas than Nintendo.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
etc...
Things that everyday people use (or used to use) everyday. The wii hasn't had the impact those have.
These are all old tech though.
CD's (Co-developed with Philips) Correct
Walkman (great innovation) Correct
LCD TV's (Not invented by sony and they mainly use samsung screens anyway!) Plasma TV's (Again not invented by sony)
I listed these as although they didn't create them they one of a few who pioneered them and made them household items.
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips) Sony were more involved in reel to reel which pre-date cassettes and was the basis of the technology though its another technology thats hard to link to one particular company
Radio (not invented by sony) In August 1955, Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering released the Sony TR-55, Japan's first commercially produced transistor radio.
Floppy Discs (ahh my amiga. Invented by IBM (although I think the drives were developed by sony)) In 1983 Sony introduced 90mm micro diskettes (better known as 3.5-inch floppy disks though the orginal 5.25 inch ones were IBM
Discman (one of the few things here invented by sony)
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well) In 1985 Sony launched their Handycam products and the Video8 format. Video8 and the follow-on hi-band Hi-8 format became popular in the consumer camcorder market. In 1987 Sony launched the 4mm DAT or Digital Audio Tape as a new digital audio tape standard.
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable) I had a portable one and still one of the cheapest wasy to do portable recording whiel retaining quality
Very involved with the vhs-betamax war (betamax was the better of the 2 formats although Phlips2000 was better than them both)
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)-though Sony are probably the only ones that can be named from memory
I mean come on should i list just a few products and innovations they have produced. Blu Ray, Cell, Oled TV's, Cybershot etc. In the software department movies like Spiderman, Bond and games like GOW2, Shadow of the Collosus, Ico not to mention Sony BMG music.
MS could definitley be acontender if most of their software and hardware didnt get released flawed most of the time.
The only thing Nintendo have produced thats innovative ia the Wii with some good games how on earth could they be voted number 1?
Bluray (consortium not just sony) Cell (ibm, toshiba, and sony. Also Sony have now sold their stake to Toshiba) OLED (not invented by Sony) Cybershot (Kodak invented the digital camera) Spiderman (What is innovative about that?) Ico (I'll give you that one. Fantastic game)
Also, BMG stands for Bertelsmann Music Group and was founded by the enormous German media company......besides, being a record label is far from innovative.
Dyson is number one in my eyes, they turned the carpet cleaning industry on it's head by inventing the bag-less vacuum cleaner that's the future!
Hoover had previously been kings of the vacuum business, people even used the brand name 'hoover' to describe a vacuum cleaner or said "I'm just going to hoover/do some hoovering".
Trouble is they rested on their laurels and their only route of progress was painting smiley faces on them and naming it 'Henry' after that no-one took the company seriously and somewhere in England James Dyson got his thinking cap on... the rest as they say is history... and that my friends is a true story, someone down the pub said so! Honest guv!
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips) Sony were more involved in reel to reel which pre-date cassettes and was the basis of the technology though its another technology thats hard to link to one particular company
But again reel to reel was not invented by sony, they just manufactured reel to reel machines etc
Radio (not invented by sony) In August 1955, Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering released the Sony TR-55, Japan's first commercially produced transistor radio.
Japans first not the worlds first. Texas Instruments claim that one.
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well) In 1985 Sony launched their Handycam products and the Video8 format. Video8 and the follow-on hi-band Hi-8 format became popular in the consumer camcorder market. In 1987 Sony launched the 4mm DAT or Digital Audio Tape as a new digital audio tape standard.
Which proves what exactly?
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable) I had a portable one and still one of the cheapest wasy to do portable recording whiel retaining quality agreed but they were expensive and not as good quality as cdr.
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)-though Sony are probably the only ones that can be named from memory
Matsus**ta, Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung.
As much as I hate Tesco and Sainsburys, yes they are quite pioneering, at least in the UK.
While they technically were not the first supermarket in the UK (and admitedly they borrowed the idea from the US) - they were one of the first to offer self service grocery shopping, and really pushed the idea of supermarkets in 1960s etc.
You'd be surprised about how much of shopping and the way it is done today has been influenced by Tesco's and to a lesser extent Sainsbury's (not necessarily for the good).
I think the problem on this forum is many people are seeing inovation as purely product orientated. And for those who'd remember (I'm not one of them) of what life was like before supermarkets - Sainsbury's and Tesco would be at the top of their lists.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
Walkman (great innovation)
Sony are no longer allowed to claim they invented the walkman, that honour goes to Andreas Pavel, who patented the idea a while before Sony started selling walkmans...
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
Walkman (great innovation)
Sony are no longer allowed to claim they invented the walkman, that honour goes to Andreas Pavel, who patented the idea a while before Sony started selling walkmans...
Sony finally admitted this in 2003.
So there is just the Discman and 3.5 inch Floppy Disk left from that list then...
I think that people miss the point when it comes to Sony. If they had not shown an interest in these innovations and not taken the risk in the first place, then I would imagine that a lot of those inventions would not have seen the light of day. They are the greatest risk/reward company.
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
Here is a fun fact. The definifion of innovation is...
Innovation: 1) Something NEW or DIFFERENT introduced
2) Introduction of new things or methods.
So the only thing that is backwards here is your thinking.
All it seems like is there has never really been any innovation - not even from game producers
The first anaolgue stick to actually appear on a controller was in 1982 made by Atari.
The D-pad was used by the Intellivision console, which was released by Mattel Electronics in 1980. The Intellivision's unique controller featured the first alternative to a joystick on a home console.
The cross design was nintendo's.
The first controller to use 2 sets of buttons to control 3D movement was actually the virtual boy which used d-pads in the way the ps1 used analogue sticks.
Mega Drive was the first 8 point d-pad and first to use 6 buttons.
SNES was the first with should buttons and to go to four buttons.
The first CD based and 32-bit console was the Amiga CD32..
And I could go on but all no-one company or person dominates anywhere
John Logie Baird Howard Aiken William Higinbotham Tim Berners-Lee
Surely these four innovators, pioneers, etc should be permanently top 10 material, without them TV, computers, videogames and the web on which you are posting may have been a lot further off than they are now, not some Japanese 'brand'.
All it seems like is there has never really been any innovation - not even from game producers
The first anaolgue stick to actually appear on a controller was in 1982 made by Atari.
The D-pad was used by the Intellivision console, which was released by Mattel Electronics in 1980. The Intellivision's unique controller featured the first alternative to a joystick on a home console.
The cross design was nintendo's.
The first controller to use 2 sets of buttons to control 3D movement was actually the virtual boy which used d-pads in the way the ps1 used analogue sticks.
Mega Drive was the first 8 point d-pad and first to use 6 buttons.
SNES was the first with should buttons and to go to four buttons.
The first CD based and 32-bit console was the Amiga CD32..
And I could go on but all no-one company or person dominates anywhere
I wonder how many of the people complaining about sony own 360s? I think they are top because the ps1 and ps2 brought gaming to the masses, which then influenced microsoft to make the xbox. I can understand about ebay and honda but BT WTF?
Sony STEAL there 'ideas' of everyone else!! Especially Nintendo! erm lets eee... the D pad, rumble faetures, Anologue stick and ohh yeah... motion sensing. pah!
Go and cry to someone who cares.
Did Nintendo create anything worthwhile outside of your little gaming world? No?! Thought so...
Sony? A company that takes others ideas, re-brands them, and flogs 'em for twice the price? and just think of all the flops and fudge-ups they've come out with, like Beta-max, Mini-disc and UMD, and not forgetting that whole root-kit fiasco they had a few years back.
Sony? A company that takes others ideas, re-brands them, and flogs 'em for twice the price? and just think of all the flops and fudge-ups they've come out with, like Beta-max, Mini-disc and UMD, and not forgetting that whole root-kit fiasco they had a few years back.
So the levels of sales now defines how innovative a product is? In my eyes, it certainly does not, and although the products you've mentioned were "flops", why does this prove them to be not innovative?
If you are experiencing strong feelings from this survey, should you not be more angry at Apple being up there? A company who uses outdated technology, gives it a lick of paint to make it look nice, promotes it in a way which sounds as if their product is the best, and then sells it at three times the price?
I don't like Apple as a company and that also rubs onto it's customers for me. But I realise that that is other people's buying habits and I can't change that. So, basically, there is no point in arguing with a survey. It is fundamentally opinion (and therefore doesn't matter).
Why has no one questioned Microsoft being at number 3? They've never had an original product in their life. Windows is a rip off of Apples operating system. Xbox, enough said, Zune, Apple again. Microsoft copy ideas and try to improve on them and capture the market. That's not innovation.
Shock horror - large percentage of the public don't think about gaming first when asked about innovation!
If this survey was sent to members of this site, then I'm sure Nintendo would win hands down.
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative! And the guy who mentioned various Sony brand names (Cybershot, Cell etc) what is up with that?!?! They weren't the first to invent digital cameras or fats processors.
And SonyBMG - that is the most laughable! Sony formed in the late 80's/early 90's and bought out loads of labels that did innovate. And for innovative record labels, forget the major labels for anything after the 70's!
I'm not denying that Sony have brought alot to the world in terms of consumer electronics etc, but you can't blindly support multinational corporations over every single possible market unless you're a fanboy. Oh, I see...
Sony? A company that takes others ideas, re-brands them, and flogs 'em for twice the price? and just think of all the flops and fudge-ups they've come out with, like Beta-max, Mini-disc and UMD, and not forgetting that whole root-kit fiasco they had a few years back.
So the levels of sales now defines how innovative a product is? In my eyes, it certainly does not, and although the products you've mentioned were "flops", why does this prove them to be not innovative?
If you are experiencing strong feelings from this survey, should you not be more angry at Apple being up there? A company who uses outdated technology, gives it a lick of paint to make it look nice, promotes it in a way which sounds as if their product is the best, and then sells it at three times the price?
I don't like Apple as a company and that also rubs onto it's customers for me. But I realise that that is other people's buying habits and I can't change that. So, basically, there is no point in arguing with a survey. It is fundamentally opinion (and therefore doesn't matter).
You wouldn't have "Windows" if it wasn't for Apple, they made MP3 mainstream and cool and PCs would still look like beige suitcases if the iMac hadn't happened.
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips) Sony were more involved in reel to reel which pre-date cassettes and was the basis of the technology though its another technology thats hard to link to one particular company
But again reel to reel was not invented by sony, they just manufactured reel to reel machines etc
Radio (not invented by sony) In August 1955, Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering released the Sony TR-55, Japan's first commercially produced transistor radio.
Japans first not the worlds first. Texas Instruments claim that one.
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well) In 1985 Sony launched their Handycam products and the Video8 format. Video8 and the follow-on hi-band Hi-8 format became popular in the consumer camcorder market. In 1987 Sony launched the 4mm DAT or Digital Audio Tape as a new digital audio tape standard.
Which proves what exactly?
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable) I had a portable one and still one of the cheapest wasy to do portable recording whiel retaining quality agreed but they were expensive and not as good quality as cdr.
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)-though Sony are probably the only ones that can be named from memory
Matsus**ta, Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung.
Leefear what is your point?
We all know Sony did not invent all those technologies and that a 'Sony scientist' wasn't sole responsible for creating them.
His point is, Sony brought a lot of those technologies to the masses and to the consumer, so in this way you can credit Sony with innovating with these products.
For example, if someone invents the mythical Hydrogen fuel battery but it is sitting in his lab and no-one, at least the masses, never get to put it into use, it is not an innovation is it?
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative!
if you actually read the post you would see that i said "i can see why" not "they are innovative because" Read the post before you make stupid comments
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative!
if you actually read the post you would see that i said "i can see why" not "they are innovative because" Read the post before you make stupid comments
Sony? A company that takes others ideas, re-brands them, and flogs 'em for twice the price? and just think of all the flops and fudge-ups they've come out with, like Beta-max, Mini-disc and UMD, and not forgetting that whole root-kit fiasco they had a few years back.
So the levels of sales now defines how innovative a product is? In my eyes, it certainly does not, and although the products you've mentioned were "flops", why does this prove them to be not innovative?
If you are experiencing strong feelings from this survey, should you not be more angry at Apple being up there? A company who uses outdated technology, gives it a lick of paint to make it look nice, promotes it in a way which sounds as if their product is the best, and then sells it at three times the price?
I don't like Apple as a company and that also rubs onto it's customers for me. But I realise that that is other people's buying habits and I can't change that. So, basically, there is no point in arguing with a survey. It is fundamentally opinion (and therefore doesn't matter).
You wouldn't have "Windows" if it wasn't for Apple, they made MP3 mainstream and cool and PCs would still look like beige suitcases if the iMac hadn't happened.
If Windows is a copy of OSX, then why can I sit here and do a whole lot more on Windows than OSX?
MP3 players are bought for the user's purpose, if they want a 'cool' image, then they will likely buy an iPod, if they want good sound quality, I could name a great deal more companies than Apple.
And who cares what computers look like? Surely it's what's inside that counts, no? I would rather be able to play Crysis or watch a HD film on a computer that looked fugly than have a swadge looking computer that can only do the basics, such as word...clock...what else can an iMac do? Oh aye, web browse...
Sony STEAL there 'ideas' of everyone else!! Especially Nintendo! erm lets eee... the D pad, rumble faetures, Anologue stick and ohh yeah... motion sensing. pah!
Nintendo would still be using cartridges and not disc's if it wasn't for sony so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative!
if you actually read the post you would see that i said "i can see why" not "they are innovative because" Read the post before you make stupid comments
Well you said neither and I can't say I appreciate the stupid comment comment as I wasn't doing it to single you out or belittle you. Yet you took it as though it was a dagger to your heart.
You said "I think they are top because...", which can be taken in various ways and I took it to mean this was your opinion on why they are the best innovators. If you had said "I think people voted for them at no 1 because..." then I would've understood. I'm saying this as a way of explanation, not pointing fingers or saying you are inarticulate etc.
It was a comment on Sony's marketing prowess more than anything else and the public's ability to get sucked in to fads.
If I misinterpreted your comments and offended you (and Sony) I deeply apologise. If you don't want to get involved in arguments over meanings and semantics, perhaps you should make your posts a little more clear. And I shall promise to read all posts throughly before I make a comment.
I bring you nothing but love, regardless of which console you own.
If Windows is a copy of OSX, then why can I sit here and do a whole lot more on Windows than OSX?
We're not saying OSX is better than Windows just as you say there's other MP3 players on the market better than the Ipod. It's just that while Microsoft had PC users tearing their hair out using MSDos to run their PC's, Apple sat down, thought about it and gave us an innovative operating system. In fact you could probably argue that Commodore actually got the ball rolling with Kickstart for the Amiga. Sad thing is when you sit down and think about it there are very, very few innovative companies about anymore.
If Windows is a copy of OSX, then why can I sit here and do a whole lot more on Windows than OSX?
We're not saying OSX is better than Windows just as you say there's other MP3 players on the market better than the Ipod. It's just that while Microsoft had PC users tearing their hair out using MSDos to run their PC's, Apple sat down, thought about it and gave us an innovative operating system. In fact you could probably argue that Commodore actually got the ball rolling with Kickstart for the Amiga. Sad thing is when you sit down and think about it there are very, very few innovative companies about anymore.
True, but credit has to go to the companies that develop the rival company's ideas, in your example, Microsoft developing the operating system after Apple redesigned it.
you guys really complain about everything. "oh no sony is top the people they questioned are idiots" yeah sure..500 stupid people.
You are idiot.
TESCO?!!?!?!? !?! !?
just the fact that they're well known has to be the explanation. Neither of them are particularly innovative. Props to Apple for the iPhone....
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
Agree with your statement that this is basically a list of well know, mainstream companies and has little to do with innovation.
Whether or not you rate the Wii as a console is down to you, but it is Nintendo who have done the majority of innovation within the gaming industry over the years, setting the standard for most games consoles today;
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
But they didn't ask people who were the most innotive games company.
Those things are tiny compared to the impact things like CD-roms and walkmans have had.
Yeah, but Sony never really innovated in those areas, to quote leefear...
You have to put what Nintendo has done in content - a little bit of inovation every 4-8 years isn't very much.
Sony will come out on top has it is involved in far more areas than Nintendo.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
etc...
Things that everyday people use (or used to use) everyday. The wii hasn't had the impact those have.
These are all old tech though.
CD's (Co-developed with Philips)
Walkman (great innovation)
LCD TV's (Not invented by sony and they mainly use samsung screens anyway!)
Plasma TV's (Again not invented by sony)
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips)
Radio (not invented by sony)
Floppy Discs (ahh my amiga. Invented by IBM (although I think the drives were developed by sony))
Discman (one of the few things here invented by sony)
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well)
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable)
Very involved with the vhs-betamax war (betamax was the better of the 2 formats although Phlips2000 was better than them both)
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)
If this survey was sent to members of this site, then I'm sure Nintendo would win hands down.
Personally i'd go for Sega, i'm not convinced Nintendo can be regarded as innovators on the hardware front if i'm honest... (the wii isn't innovative it's based on proven tech) so i have to judge on games & for a games company only i'd put sega top.
We all know Sony did not invent all those technologies and that a 'Sony scientist' wasn't sole responsible for creating them.
His point is, Sony brought a lot of those technologies to the masses and to the consumer, so in this way you can credit Sony with innovating with these products
Bringing something to the masses is not innovation.
Selling someone a product doesn't make you innovative.
It's a survey based on the public who frankly generally are ignorant of pretty much everything. Sony & Apple et all are up their because their companies the public is largely aware of as producing products but your average joe blogs has zip idea who created them.
If you were looking for true innovation i think you'd have to loom at GlaxoSmithKline, British America Tobacco are trying to create a non cancer causing cigarette which will make them a fortune or maybe all the biomedical etc companies looking at nano tech etc. That's all cutting edge... blu-ray, Wii motion-sensing, avatars, hard-drives in consoles et all are not cutting edge. Christ the games industry is many things but it is never cutting edge.
i find it quite interesting that even people here think blu ray is an innovation. its just a slightly different dvd, if it was the first optical disc then it would be an innovation but its at least the 3rd iteration after CD and DVD, and there could have been more before those two. the real innovators in industry are smaller companies that need to try something new to break into a market but are perhaps less well known and dont have the brand.
this survey was by 'brand republic' so it should really be a survey about favourite or most well known brands not innovation.
er...does anyone remember that sony was initially founded in a 'bombed to f*ck Tokyo'? of course they should be remembered for innovation...they have come a long way, in establishing a strong 'tech' industry...the 'others' should hold their heads in shame, with regards to this. 'meh' i tip my hat
Why has no one questioned Microsoft being at number 3? They've never had an original product in their life. Windows is a rip off of Apples operating system. Xbox, enough said, Zune, Apple again. Microsoft copy ideas and try to improve on them and capture the market. That's not innovation.
True. Microsoft has created only a few programs. Excel, Word, Powerpoint, Visio, Access, SqlServer etc were all developed by other companies that MS bought out. Also IE Is way behind Opera and Firefox in the browser technology and standards. This is true for many large multinationals though. I would say windows ripped off apples os but Apple ripped off Amiga Workbench (which was groundbreaking). MS also ripped off the Ipod but Apple also ripped off Creatives interface. Apple are not innovative either, they just take other peoples ideas and do some sort of marketing magic on them (and they make products look very sexy). Their innovation comes from managing to sell mainly sexy looking but rubbish products for high prices. However the one area that Microsoft are truly amazing is their Develoment Environments, Visual Studio is brilliant.
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips) Sony were more involved in reel to reel which pre-date cassettes and was the basis of the technology though its another technology thats hard to link to one particular company
But again reel to reel was not invented by sony, they just manufactured reel to reel machines etc
Radio (not invented by sony) In August 1955, Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering released the Sony TR-55, Japan's first commercially produced transistor radio.
Japans first not the worlds first. Texas Instruments claim that one.
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well) In 1985 Sony launched their Handycam products and the Video8 format. Video8 and the follow-on hi-band Hi-8 format became popular in the consumer camcorder market. In 1987 Sony launched the 4mm DAT or Digital Audio Tape as a new digital audio tape standard.
Which proves what exactly?
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable) I had a portable one and still one of the cheapest wasy to do portable recording whiel retaining quality agreed but they were expensive and not as good quality as cdr.
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)-though Sony are probably the only ones that can be named from memory
Matsus**ta, Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung.
Leefear what is your point?
We all know Sony did not invent all those technologies and that a 'Sony scientist' wasn't sole responsible for creating them.
His point is, Sony brought a lot of those technologies to the masses and to the consumer, so in this way you can credit Sony with innovating with these products.
For example, if someone invents the mythical Hydrogen fuel battery but it is sitting in his lab and no-one, at least the masses, never get to put it into use, it is not an innovation is it?
Do you get it?
Developing an existing invention is not innovating. Especially when most of the products listed had already been developed into consumer products before Sony did the same thing. I have read the complete history of Sony (quite an interesting read) and there is some innovation (Trinitron for example), but mostly it is just development of existing technology and good marketing (although they really messed up when they opened into the US) Their main innovation lately has come in the form of shutting down other companies and sueing their own customers etc.
Sony STEAL there 'ideas' of everyone else!! Especially Nintendo! erm lets eee... the D pad, rumble faetures, Anologue stick and ohh yeah... motion sensing. pah!
Nintendo would still be using cartridges and not disc's if it wasn't for sony so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Nintendo asked sony to develop the CD add-on for the SNES not the other way around and it was only a big falling out that caused Sony to go it alone. Nintendo went to philips in the end but it was too late by then. Imagine if they had asked Philips in the first place, History might have been very different. We may be playing on a philips console (although hopefully not the CD-i) and Sega might not have rushed the Saturn out and buggered up the architecture.
It's a survey based on the public who frankly generally are ignorant of pretty much everything.
Spot on.....does anyone remember the time they did a huge national poll to find out the most important British person of all time? - they actually had to ask people to stop voting for Sherlock Holmes. Jeez, David Beckham and Robbie Williams made the top 50 and Princess Diana came third - she beat Charles Darwin!
I always take the masses opinion with a pinch of salt, unfortuantely it's what decides on the government
Whole we're laying down the heavy stream of facts, it was Xerox who were the real innovators of the GUI.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs both famously nicked their best ideas for the development of Windows and MacOS. (Although from what I remember, Apple went about it it in much nicer way.)
Small areas...like the space between your ears? I guess my sarcasm was lost on your diminutive intellect. I never argued that Macs are more popular than pc's yet your argument is still pretty poor. Of course pc's are more popular than macs due to their use in offices and for business in general. However, this doesn't make macs inferior. Your argument would stipulate that a Ford Fiesta is better than a Lamborghini simply because more people use them. Pc's and Fiesta's are for the large part "functional". Macs are a work of art and very few pc's come close to them in build and aesthetics IMO. LOTR was made on Mac using Final Cut and the large majority of music producers won't touch Windows - or at least not historically. For audio intensive apps the pc has almost been viewed with the same attitude that the 360 and its RROD have. I remember a test where they put a "comparable" mac and pc side by side and the pc folded far quicker under the workload. I'm sure the gap is lessened with both now using Intel chips but still any producer worth their salt will take a Macbook over a pc laptop. Much more stable and ergonomic.
It depends what everyone says is "innovotive", and ultimately if we are talking about innovation now or over a companies entire lifetime. And before even looking at the reuslts i know the surver is rubbish. 500 people? it's just not a good enough size to even say it represents the British public's opinion (and even if it was, the point has been made so many times in this thread, but people's opinion isn't always right).
I'm no apple fanboy, but if you look at their products, they inovate on things people cry out for. The iPhone has a simple to use touch interface with very few actual buttons to get in the way that handles like a dream compared to my windows based XDA. Mac OS is fast, sleak and easy to use. It includes some great apps like imovie that can edit HD video fuotage out of the box to a resonable standard. Sure, they charge a premium, but so do sony for their products. A decent vaio with a similar spec to a macbook pro would cost you over a grand. I have all three consoles now and the only one that brings anything new to the table is the wii and its controller. The other two are just under the bonnet upgrades on last gens hardware.
Yeah, I was pretty surprised about Nintendo coming 7th.
Personally the Wii isn't my cup of tea (I'm a bit of a shooter nut/graphics whore) but I think the motion controls are the best implemented so far. They may not be involved in so many areas as for example Sony, yet they still differentiate themselves from their competition in a way few other companies do. The DS was pretty revolutionary in it's use of the touchscreen and also in it's appealing to different audiences - my best mate's mum plays Brain Training on her DS and I know several girls who have that Nintendogs game, for example.
If this survey was sent to members of this site, then I'm sure Nintendo would win hands down.
Personally i'd go for Sega, i'm not convinced Nintendo can be regarded as innovators on the hardware front if i'm honest... (the wii isn't innovative it's based on proven tech) so i have to judge on games & for a games company only i'd put sega top.
I see what you're saying and I think Sega are boss (especially in terms of arcade innovation). However I can't see who else would be the top innovators as a gaming (hardware & software) company other than Nintendo. Sure, touch screens and accelerometers (is that right???) existed before Nintendo, but the innovation is in using these existing inventions in new ways, such as the wii and ds. The gameboy was certainly innovative at the time, although there were other hand held lcd games out there. And Sony did it for Eye Toy too - though webcams were about before.
If innovations are only brand new inventions, then we won't have seen hardly any innovation for years as most new products are improvements of already proven tech.
It's what you do with proven tech that counts. Accelerometers were used (as far as I was aware) to park the heads on hard drives when they fall from a table etc so the HD isn't damaged - this is quite a distance from the wii!
I suppose this discussion will vary as people will have different ideas on what innovation is!
I'm no apple fanboy, but if you look at their products, they inovate on things people cry out for. The iPhone has a simple to use touch interface with very few actual buttons to get in the way that handles like a dream compared to my windows based XDA. Mac OS is fast, sleak and easy to use. It includes some great apps like imovie that can edit HD video fuotage out of the box to a resonable standard. Sure, they charge a premium, but so do sony for their products. A decent vaio with a similar spec to a macbook pro would cost you over a grand. I have all three consoles now and the only one that brings anything new to the table is the wii and its controller. The other two are just under the bonnet upgrades on last gens hardware.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative!
if you actually read the post you would see that i said "i can see why" not "they are innovative because" Read the post before you make stupid comments
Well you said neither and I can't say I appreciate the stupid comment comment as I wasn't doing it to single you out or belittle you. Yet you took it as though it was a dagger to your heart.
You said "I think they are top because...", which can be taken in various ways and I took it to mean this was your opinion on why they are the best innovators. If you had said "I think people voted for them at no 1 because..." then I would've understood. I'm saying this as a way of explanation, not pointing fingers or saying you are inarticulate etc.
It was a comment on Sony's marketing prowess more than anything else and the public's ability to get sucked in to fads.
If I misinterpreted your comments and offended you (and Sony) I deeply apologise. If you don't want to get involved in arguments over meanings and semantics, perhaps you should make your posts a little more clear. And I shall promise to read all posts throughly before I make a comment.
I bring you nothing but love, regardless of which console you own.
Sorry i did over react but i did say i can see why, and leave the fanboy crap out of it, at no point did i say i agree with sony being at the top.
Small areas...like the space between your ears? I guess my sarcasm was lost on your diminutive intellect. I never argued that Macs are more popular than pc's yet your argument is still pretty poor. Of course pc's are more popular than macs due to their use in offices and for business in general. However, this doesn't make macs inferior. Your argument would stipulate that a Ford Fiesta is better than a Lamborghini simply because more people use them. Pc's and Fiesta's are for the large part "functional". Macs are a work of art and very few pc's come close to them in build and aesthetics IMO. LOTR was made on Mac using Final Cut and the large majority of music producers won't touch Windows - or at least not historically. For audio intensive apps the pc has almost been viewed with the same attitude that the 360 and its RROD have. I remember a test where they put a "comparable" mac and pc side by side and the pc folded far quicker under the workload. I'm sure the gap is lessened with both now using Intel chips but still any producer worth their salt will take a Macbook over a pc laptop. Much more stable and ergonomic.
Oh dear. You try and offend me by using words such as "diminutive intellect", why? To try and make out that you are smarter than me? Surely then, you would have noticed that my argument had nothing to do with how popular each OS is (numbers speak for themselves, i hope i don't need to tell you that), I was making the point that you can do more on Windows than on OSX. Fair enough, Macs do look nice on the outside. But they have terribly old fashioned hardware unless you are prepared to pay big bucks. The OSX has several limitations when it comes to software also. Very few programs/games are written for OSX compared to Windows, due to the significantly smaller user base, therefore relying on companies/developers dedicating their work to the Mac platform. I'm not saying OSX is terrible, just that I can do a whole lot more on Windows than on OSX.
So I suggest that you read through my previous post again, and think before you type or you may end up looking retarded again.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
leefear1, can I please commend you on hitting the nail smack bang on the head. Hopefully English Shmuppet reads both our posts and learns that OSX is worthless to most people. Maybe a good few movie companies will get use from it, eh Shmuppet?
I'm no apple fanboy, but if you look at their products, they inovate on things people cry out for. The iPhone has a simple to use touch interface with very few actual buttons to get in the way that handles like a dream compared to my windows based XDA. Mac OS is fast, sleak and easy to use. It includes some great apps like imovie that can edit HD video fuotage out of the box to a resonable standard. Sure, they charge a premium, but so do sony for their products. A decent vaio with a similar spec to a macbook pro would cost you over a grand. I have all three consoles now and the only one that brings anything new to the table is the wii and its controller. The other two are just under the bonnet upgrades on last gens hardware.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
I agree on the quality of the screens in the imacs, but pros should really be using a mac pro. The mother in law is a pro photographer and non of the people she knows who use mac for image editing (which they are far superiour for) would use an apple cinema display. They have a nasty pink cast to them. For image and video manipulation you cant get a pc to go close to mac os. The 30" Dell widescreen seems to be the display of choice now for photographers I know.
And to address another point made by some on here. Other than gaming, what can a pc do that a mac cant? I'm not an full time apple user, although I do have a macbook for work as a network admin, but I fail to see any mainstream apps that dont have a mac based counterpart.
And to address another point made by some on here. Other than gaming, what can a pc do that a mac cant? I'm not an full time apple user, although I do have a macbook for work as a network admin, but I fail to see any mainstream apps that dont have a mac based counterpart.
Just a quick example. One of my mates is currently learning to drive. He only owns two Macs. Of course, eager to pass his test, he purchased a driving test helper disk (don't know the name of it ) but could not use it as he couldn't install it on his Mac, therefore restricting his ability to revise for his theory test till when me and my laptop were free. If I were him, the blatant inconvenience of Macs would be enough to turn me away from them towards Windows based machines. My PC and laptop can do everything a Mac can do, and more. Windows is perfect for me, although I realise that others may appreciate Macs for their video editing software. Saying that, I can not understand why anyone would pay more to have a Mac for home use.
I'm no apple fanboy, but if you look at their products, they inovate on things people cry out for. The iPhone has a simple to use touch interface with very few actual buttons to get in the way that handles like a dream compared to my windows based XDA. Mac OS is fast, sleak and easy to use. It includes some great apps like imovie that can edit HD video fuotage out of the box to a resonable standard. Sure, they charge a premium, but so do sony for their products. A decent vaio with a similar spec to a macbook pro would cost you over a grand. I have all three consoles now and the only one that brings anything new to the table is the wii and its controller. The other two are just under the bonnet upgrades on last gens hardware.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
I agree on the quality of the screens in the imacs, but pros should really be using a mac pro. The mother in law is a pro photographer and non of the people she knows who use mac for image editing (which they are far superiour for) would use an apple cinema display. They have a nasty pink cast to them. For image and video manipulation you cant get a pc to go close to mac os. The 30" Dell widescreen seems to be the display of choice now for photographers I know.
And to address another point made by some on here. Other than gaming, what can a pc do that a mac cant? I'm not an full time apple user, although I do have a macbook for work as a network admin, but I fail to see any mainstream apps that dont have a mac based counterpart.
There are many things to do with networking and webservers etc that are far more tricky with macs. Also functionality with cards like the 3gp (used for external control of robots and other machines etc is all but impossible. There are also many other things that do not spring to mind immediately though.
Why on earth is the Mac better at image editing than a pc? I am a amature photographer and I use Photoshop on the PC with a graphics tablet etc and it works brilliantly.
Most of the mac users I know either have replaced mac os with xp or dual boot (in order to do company related work) which tells its own story.
Re sony: bringing gaming to the masses isn't innovation. Maybe their marketing department was innovative!
if you actually read the post you would see that i said "i can see why" not "they are innovative because" Read the post before you make stupid comments
Well you said neither and I can't say I appreciate the stupid comment comment as I wasn't doing it to single you out or belittle you. Yet you took it as though it was a dagger to your heart.
You said "I think they are top because...", which can be taken in various ways and I took it to mean this was your opinion on why they are the best innovators. If you had said "I think people voted for them at no 1 because..." then I would've understood. I'm saying this as a way of explanation, not pointing fingers or saying you are inarticulate etc.
It was a comment on Sony's marketing prowess more than anything else and the public's ability to get sucked in to fads.
If I misinterpreted your comments and offended you (and Sony) I deeply apologise. If you don't want to get involved in arguments over meanings and semantics, perhaps you should make your posts a little more clear. And I shall promise to read all posts throughly before I make a comment.
I bring you nothing but love, regardless of which console you own.
Sorry i did over react but i did say i can see why, and leave the fanboy crap out of it, at no point did i say i agree with sony being at the top.
No worries, I was a little sarccy myself with the reply, it was just I saw ps3 games at the end of your post and couldn't resist! It just goes to show that with the written word; context, tone etc can easily be misconstrued.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
leefear1, can I please commend you on hitting the nail smack bang on the head. Hopefully English Shmuppet reads both our posts and learns that OSX is worthless to most people. Maybe a good few movie companies will get use from it, eh Shmuppet?
Seems a brain is also worthless to most people.
Is this leequeer pc fanboy honestly trying to argue that a Apple screen cannot display the necessary colour range! Try telling that to the people that made Lord of the Rings or any of the many other films made on final cut. Perhaps the problem is that it was so much clearer than what he was used to and his brain just couldn't process it. Honestly, Stevie you should be ashamed for commending such a load of fanboy drivel. For the record, I'm going to buy a laptop soon and it will be a pc one. I need the office apps for work and I know I'll still be able to run Cubase and all the necessary plugins. However, given a choice I'd have a pc for work stuff and a mac for music. Mac is the industy standard for music. Logic is one of the best music production suites (alongside Pro Tools, etc) and guess what...it's only available on the Mac. I'm not slating pc's, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to dismiss what is arguably the best media production platform ever. I'm not just talking about music and video. Macs have long been a benchmark for graphic design and designers in general - e.g automotive manufacturers who need to be able to produce fully rotational graphical models which can be turned and zoomed in on at will. To deny the prowess of the mac is ridiculous, even if the newer pc's are catching up in stability and power.
I agree that Apple have innovated well on the UI for iphone although the device itself is pretty low standard ie the camera, missing 3G, not being able to use mp3s for ringtones etc. Also the Virtual Keyboard is useless for quick typing and the screen gets filthy very quickly (and you can't use a stylus either). However microsoft now need to do some major changes to WM in order for it to not look dated and cumbersome. OSX Is also in my mind pointless. The only things I like about apples OS is the drag and drop install method for apps and the default movie making software. There is hardly anything you can do on a mac that can't be done on windows yet there is a load of stuff windows can do that Mac OS can't. The first time I saw a new LCD mac I was amazed for all the wrong reasons. Many Image pros and DTP pros use them religiously yet the screens were (and still are at least up until around a year ago) rubbish. There was banding where the screen could not display enough colours etc. How on earth do they use them for fine image editing! Windows is far from perfect but it is the only operating system that currently suits my needs.
leefear1, can I please commend you on hitting the nail smack bang on the head. Hopefully English Shmuppet reads both our posts and learns that OSX is worthless to most people. Maybe a good few movie companies will get use from it, eh Shmuppet?
Seems a brain is also worthless to most people.
Is this leequeer pc fanboy honestly trying to argue that a Apple screen cannot display the necessary colour range! Try telling that to the people that made Lord of the Rings or any of the many other films made on final cut. Perhaps the problem is that it was so much clearer than what he was used to and his brain just couldn't process it. Honestly, Stevie you should be ashamed for commending such a load of fanboy drivel. For the record, I'm going to buy a laptop soon and it will be a pc one. I need the office apps for work and I know I'll still be able to run Cubase and all the necessary plugins. However, given a choice I'd have a pc for work stuff and a mac for music. Mac is the industy standard for music. Logic is one of the best music production suites (alongside Pro Tools, etc) and guess what...it's only available on the Mac. I'm not slating pc's, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to dismiss what is arguably the best media production platform ever. I'm not just talking about music and video. Macs have long been a benchmark for graphic design and designers in general - e.g automotive manufacturers who need to be able to produce fully rotational graphical models which can be turned and zoomed in on at will. To deny the prowess of the mac is ridiculous, even if the newer pc's are catching up in stability and power.
"leequeer" GROW UP are you 9 or something!
I am also not a PC fanboy. I would have loved the Amiga to rule the roost but unfortunately Commodore buggered that up in a big way!
And yes I am saying that many Mac LCD screens can't display the full range of colours (although as I have not seen a MacPro properly in action these may be different as posted somewhere above). There have been a number of court cases in the US regarding the colour depth of the Mac screens so I not the only one to notice it. It is the same depth problem that you often get with cheap LCD screens although the Macs are not cheap. As for music production there are many programs deemed to be the best and Logic is only one of them. Cakewalk, Pro Tools. As pro tools is the industry standard software and it is available on the PC then I don't see your point. I also know musicians that use PCs but non that use macs for their creation or production.
I also went for a job at a Automotive design company and they used PCs for all their CAD, CAM work. Also AutoCad (and it's related products) are the industry standard CAD,CAM packages and are only available for Windows.
just the fact that they're well known has to be the explanation. Neither of them are particularly innovative. Props to Apple for the iPhone....
Also, whether or not Nintendo are innovative is very much up to the individual. Personally I think the Wii and pretty much everything they are doing is a step backwards for gaming. "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "innovative".
Agree with your statement that this is basically a list of well know, mainstream companies and has little to do with innovation.
Whether or not you rate the Wii as a console is down to you, but it is Nintendo who have done the majority of innovation within the gaming industry over the years, setting the standard for most games consoles today;
Joypad/controller - NES D-pad - NES Shoulder buttons & general layout of front 4 buttons - SNES Four player standard gaming - N64 Rumble - N64 Analogue stick - N64 Wireless pads - Game Cube
u know what that is a great point - i have to agree 110% even tho the wii does drive me up the wall, it STILL brings something fresh and NEW to the industry plain and simple. Nintendo have to be the best in innovation when it comes to GAMING at least.
You have to put what Nintendo has done in content - a little bit of inovation every 4-8 years isn't very much.
Sony will come out on top has it is involved in far more areas than Nintendo.
Just some of the things Sony has brough to the masses: CD's Walkman LCD TV's Plasma TV's Tape recorders Radio Floppy Discs Discman Camcorders Mini disc Very involved with the vhs-betamax war and now blu ray-hddvd war
etc...
Things that everyday people use (or used to use) everyday. The wii hasn't had the impact those have.
These are all old tech though.
CD's (Co-developed with Philips) Correct
Walkman (great innovation) Correct
LCD TV's (Not invented by sony and they mainly use samsung screens anyway!) Plasma TV's (Again not invented by sony)
I listed these as although they didn't create them they one of a few who pioneered them and made them household items.
Tape recorders (Not invented by sony. Cassettes were invented by Philips) Sony were more involved in reel to reel which pre-date cassettes and was the basis of the technology though its another technology thats hard to link to one particular company
Radio (not invented by sony) In August 1955, Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering released the Sony TR-55, Japan's first commercially produced transistor radio.
Floppy Discs (ahh my amiga. Invented by IBM (although I think the drives were developed by sony)) In 1983 Sony introduced 90mm micro diskettes (better known as 3.5-inch floppy disks though the orginal 5.25 inch ones were IBM
Discman (one of the few things here invented by sony)
Camcorders(although they released the first consumer camcorder it was due to a lot of work by JVC as well) In 1985 Sony launched their Handycam products and the Video8 format. Video8 and the follow-on hi-band Hi-8 format became popular in the consumer camcorder market. In 1987 Sony launched the 4mm DAT or Digital Audio Tape as a new digital audio tape standard.
Mini disc (failed badly, although I had a recording deck and a portable) I had a portable one and still one of the cheapest wasy to do portable recording whiel retaining quality
Very involved with the vhs-betamax war (betamax was the better of the 2 formats although Phlips2000 was better than them both)
and now blu ray-hddvd war (Bluray is a big consortium of which Sony is merely a member)-though Sony are probably the only ones that can be named from memory
have to agree - i for one aint a huge sony fan but I'M SORRY, the Minidisc was BRILLIANT and a shame it went because for what it does there is nothing else that beats it, portable recording from any source basically with terrific sound. no need for a sound card in ya PC if u have one of those babies (recording -wise)
i still have a pioneer and sony recording MD decks in my room, but unfortunately my beloved JVC portable MD recorder died on me - i could've cried
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
Sony? A company that takes others ideas, re-brands them, and flogs 'em for twice the price? and just think of all the flops and fudge-ups they've come out with, like Beta-max, Mini-disc and UMD, and not forgetting that whole root-kit fiasco they had a few years back. 
) but could not use it as he couldn't install it on his Mac, therefore restricting his ability to revise for his theory test till when me and my laptop were free. If I were him, the blatant inconvenience of Macs would be enough to turn me away from them towards Windows based machines. My PC and laptop can do everything a Mac can do, and more. Windows is perfect for me, although I realise that others may appreciate Macs for their video editing software. Saying that, I can not understand why anyone would pay more to have a Mac for home use.
