In the third part of The Guardian's excellent Peter Moore interview, the ex-Xbox boss has made shock damning statement against Microsoft Game Studios developer Rare, saying the UK studio's skillsets are "not applicable in today's market".
"I spent a lot of time in the Midlands with Rare, trying to work on stuff that would give us a little bit more balance," he told the paper. "And so a few years ago we started working on Viva Pińata.
"I thought ultimately it would be very successful - and you know, Microsoft, we'd had a tough time getting Rare back - Perfect Dark Zero was a launch title and didn't do as well as Perfect Dark... but we were trying all kinds of classic Rare stuff and unfortunately I think the industry had past Rare by.
"It's a strong statement but what they were good at, new consumers didn't care about anymore," he continued. "And it was tough because they were trying very hard - Chris and Tim Stamper were still there - to try and recreate the glory years of Rare, which is the reason Microsoft paid a lot of money for them and I spent a lot of time getting on a train to Twycross to meet them.
"Great people. But their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market."
Personally looking at Trouble in Paradise and the new Banjo, we think Peter might have spoken too soon...
Peter Moore looks at the ground and shuffles away to a quiet corner.
Again, CVG misleads people with an article that is in the PAST TENSE!
He isn't saying their skill are not applicable now he's saying they were not applicable then
When did he leave MS though, its not like were talking about this as if Peter last worked there 10 years ago or something, he was there until the last couple of years.
Anyhoos, its embarrasing for him and I think that Banjo will be a great game whatever some 'Dodgy' people may say.
How about MS do us all a favour by cutting their losses with RARE, letting them go back to Ninty, where they would no doubt shine again. The 360 has got a long way to go before it can attract the casual user like Ninty have done with the Wii.
EDIT: As a side note, Viva Pinata' would probably sell bucket loads on the Wii. Good idea for a game, but lacking the necessary audience to really succeed.
How about MS do us all a favour by cutting their losses with RARE, letting them go back to Ninty, where they would no doubt shine again. The 360 has got a long way to go before it can attract the casual user like Ninty have done with the Wii.
How about letting them release their new Banjo game along with Killer Instinct (please!) and the new IP they are working on first? If there all sh*t then no doubt MS will let them go anyway but why dont we wait until we see how the games are before saying there not as good as they used to be.
EDIT: As a side note, Viva Pinata' would probably sell bucket loads on the Wii. Good idea for a game, but lacking the necessary audience to really succeed.
Yes or maybe with some sort of 'touch screen' based technology on a handheld?
Edit: But how to handle all the text? you'd ideally need another screen!! ha the very thought of it!
give them back to nintendo, their style of games would make a killing on the wii. the 360 is an action game console, the grittier the better. Rares game would be much more suited to a wii audience.
How about MS do us all a favour by cutting their losses with RARE, letting them go back to Ninty, where they would no doubt shine again. The 360 has got a long way to go before it can attract the casual user like Ninty have done with the Wii.
How about letting them release their new Banjo game along with Killer Instinct (please!) and the new IP they are working on first? If there all sh*t then no doubt MS will let them go anyway but why dont we wait until we see how the games are before saying there not as good as they used to be.
I'm not saying that RARE don't make good games on the 360, far from it. I actually quite enjoyed PD and Kameo and thought they were, at least, technically sound. They just don't have that special something anymore - that spark, that turns a good game into a fantastic game. I'll reserve judgement entirely upon how they get on with Banjo, though I do have my doubts. The main problem with Viva Pinata' and (what seems to me) Banjo N&B's, is that they seem overly complicated to appeal to a wider audience. I tried Viva Pinata' and I found myself a bit confused after an hour to what was going on! I'm not ashamed to admit it!
give them back to nintendo, their style of games would make a killing on the wii. the 360 is an action game console, the grittier the better. Rares game would be much more suited to a wii audience.
Clearly, Nintendo (who let them go) and Microsoft (who bought them) didn't think so...
Peter Moore looks at the ground and shuffles away to a quiet corner.
Again, CVG misleads people with an article that is in the PAST TENSE!
He isn't saying their skill are not applicable now he's saying they were not applicable then
When did he leave MS though, its not like were talking about this as if Peter last worked there 10 years ago or something, he was there until the last couple of years.
Anyhoos, its embarrasing for him and I think that Banjo will be a great game whatever some 'Dodgy' people may say.
Viva Pinata 2 is an excellent game, full of original game play and modern concepts. The only thing that's stopping it being a hit is Microsoft's complete inability to market games that aren't shooters or racers.
All this talk from Microsoft about how they want to appeal to wider audience, but how the f**k is anyone supposed to know games like Viva Pinata exist on 360 if they don't advertise it? It sneaked onto the shelves without anyone noticing, and if you're not in the know you wouldn't even knwo what it was and that it existed.
They'll market the hell out of Gears of War 2, you won't be able to move in Novemember for pictures of Marcus Fenix. No wonder people see the 360 as a hardcore gamers console, and no wonder games like Viva Pinata get completly ignored when they deserve so much more.
Developers need to understand when its time to put a franchise to bed - some have been lucky and it has been out of their hands - Naughty Dog losing Crash Bandicoot (which has become dire) and insomniac losing sypro has allowed them to move on and create franchises that are immensely popular now (jak and daxter, uncharted, resistance, ratchet and clank)
Rare also lost key members after the start of Perfect Dark - the most notible set up Free Radical - have they ever really recovered from that?
I think he's completely off the mark. The problem is that the style of games Rare create don't appeal to 360's core userbase. You just need to look around most forums and you'll see lots of people saying "not interested. Looks like a kids game". Sadly the majority of people who like these games own a Wii and aren't going to buy a 360 just for the sake of a few Rare games. If MS want Rare to be successful then they need to let them do a Perfect Dark sequel which has a realistic style, not the horrid cartoonish style the prequel had.
The problem isn't that Rare don't have applicable skills for the current market, it's that they're relying too heavily on past success.
Viva Pinata gets praised pretty much across the board. But that doesn't mean that it'll continue that way. Likewise, Banjo is a franchise that had it's glory day 2 generations ago, and I don't know that the new one is going to sell as well as they're hoping.
They did amazing things with the old Nintendo hardware, and if they do revive the Killer Instinct franchise I'll be all over it. But are they really pushing hard enough to do themselves justice?
I used to be a massive RARE and before that Ultimate Play The Game. They are just not the same company that they used to be. The enthusiasm seems to have all but gone. So sad
I gotta agree with Moore on this one. However I do think that their titles are targetted at a younger audience, with BJ and VP surely they will get bigger exposure by selling on Wii. The 360's no kid's console and I'll be surprised to see how many 21-35 olds go for cutesy BJ or music friendly VP when given the choice of GOW2 or Fable2.
He reckons they're not relevant because Rare use COLOUR! Seriously, no game in the world is more colourful than Viva Pinata, and Banjo isn't far behind. Even KI had masses of colour.
And we all know that the way to make modern games is to turn the contrast up and the colour down. So I guess he might have a point after all - colours have no place in modern gaming!
I couldn't care less about RARE these days. Goldeneye was great in it's day. Loved that game. But I found Perfect Dark slightly embarrassing to play on the N64 and the 360 outing was just awful. Total dud. And don't get me started on all that 90's cuddly animal sh1t they peddled forever...10 years ago they had a nice dev team but that was YEARS ago!!. Even the founders have bu99ered off. When the takeover happened in '02 I didn't care either. I just thought that it was a bit naive of Microsoft, fortunate for Rare (at the time) but on the whole a complete waste of money and time.
I think some of you seem to forget the help they had from Nintendo. When you have some of the best designers in the world guiding you, it must make life a lot easier.
I couldn't care less about RARE these days. Goldeneye was great in it's day. Loved that game. But I found Perfect Dark slightly embarrassing to play on the N64
Glad to see someone else not rating Perfect Dark too highly. I was really not a fan - Goldeneye was way, WAY better.
Their games are too templated. I remember being incredibly disappointed by Donkey Kong 64 for being too much like Banjo. They have the odd title that stands out from the formulaic stuff, like Blast Corps, but Nintendo did the right thing setting them free.
You can only milk the cow so hard before the supply runs dry. And Rare had got very dry indeed. Bar Banjo-Tooie, the last memorable title that I recall is Jet Force Gemini.
You can ride on reputation for years, but partying like it's 1999 begins to look a bit sad when you realise that nine years have passed and people's hearts lie elsewhere, with companies and franchises that keep momentum.
It'll be interesting to see how many people are forced to eat their words when Banjo gets released to critical acclaim including that bald, scouse t**t!
Glad to see someone else not rating Perfect Dark too highly. I was really not a fan - Goldeneye was way, WAY better.
You could probably argue that one all day and get no where, it's down to personal opinion. I think they were both excellent games that defined the N64 and stood head and shoulders above games on other same generation platforms. I felt that Perfect Dark had just a bit more depth to it. Maybe that's Rares problem, everyone expects another Goldeneye and it's hard to improve on something that's already close to perfection and is so clearly cherished and fondly remembered by the people that played it. Rare have been a victim of their own success. Moore is still a tit, misquoted or not.
Bring out Goldeneye HD on XBLA and we'll soon see who isn't interested in Rare these days. I'd buy that for 800 points in a second. But probably not 1,200 points. Because I'm, like, tight.
I think some of you seem to forget the help they had from Nintendo. When you have some of the best designers in the world guiding you, it must make life a lot easier.
Yeah, I'm sure Nintendo were a huge help in the development of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, especially with their vast experience in the FPS genre... The only input Nintendo ever had with any Rare developed games were if they involved any Nintendo characters. Th rest of the time they were left to do their own thing unless they needed any help with adjusting to the hardware. People always give Nintendo more credit than they are actually due. I mean when was the last time they had the balls to try and make a killer new IP rather than pumping out Mario and Zelda games?
The 360 has gone downhill after Moore left in my opinion, he would not have gone in this bulls**t kiddy crap direction and would have kept on delivering awesomeness.
And Rare HAVE made a brilliant game this gen: Viva Pinata.
I think some of you seem to forget the help they had from Nintendo. When you have some of the best designers in the world guiding you, it must make life a lot easier.
Yeah, I'm sure Nintendo were a huge help in the development of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, especially with their vast experience in the FPS genre... The only input Nintendo ever had with any Rare developed games were if they involved any Nintendo characters. Th rest of the time they were left to do their own thing unless they needed any help with adjusting to the hardware. People always give Nintendo more credit than they are actually due. I mean when was the last time they had the balls to try and make a killer new IP rather than pumping out Mario and Zelda games?
You do know that Goldeneye was made on Nintendo's order right? I'm sure had a big hand in assisting Rare after all they were one of their most productive studios.
Peter Moore looks at the ground and shuffles away to a quiet corner.
Again, CVG misleads people with an article that is in the PAST TENSE!
He isn't saying their skill are not applicable now he's saying they were not applicable then
But it still doesn't change the fact that Banjo is just a reivention of an ex-Nintendo character. Thats hardly displaying new ideas is it?
Howabout a totally brand new IP built for the system from the ground up thats totally unrelated to past Nintendo heritage?
i hear what you're saying, but is there anything bad in giving the people what they want??? people are excited about the new banjo game and they will buy it in droves..... thats why theyre doing it...
The 360 has gone downhill after Moore left in my opinion, he would not have gone in this bulls**t kiddy crap direction and would have kept on delivering awesomeness.
And Rare HAVE made a brilliant game this gen: Viva Pinata.
Oh my, what in super reply! Try 'no your mum is!"
If Moore is so fanastic why isn't he at Microsoft anymore? He didn't 'leave' a high profile job at Microsoft to work for EA Sport. He was shown the door because Microsoft blamed him for the RROD. He was the project lead and he didn't do his job.
Developers need to understand when its time to put a franchise to bed - some have been lucky and it has been out of their hands - Naughty Dog losing Crash Bandicoot (which has become dire) and insomniac losing sypro has allowed them to move on and create franchises that are immensely popular now (jak and daxter, uncharted, resistance, ratchet and clank)
I think Crash games have got better since naughty dog let the franchise go to sierra there now more fun to play and less of a pain in the ass than when they were made by naughty dog.
I Love Rare as a game deleveloper but the problem is they are just using thier exsiting ip, Banjo - Conker - Perfect Dark - If your creating for a new system it would have been a good idea to start with fresh idea and new concepts.. I aint saying what they have created has been Crap but just not to the standard it used to be. I do hope Banjo ends up being a good game and the 1 ip which i do Like is VivaPinata - Lets hope they stop doing re hashes and concertate on something that will appeal to more than those that played and understood their orginal titles
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