This month office discussions, rants and indeed bare-knuckle fights have centred around Fallout 3 (well, until Gears 2 and Fable 2 dropped through the letterbox). Why? Because despite how darn amazing it is, we just can't shake the feeling that... whisper it... spiritual prequel Oblivion may still be the better title of the two. Shocked? Well, maybe not. Because living up to 2006's Game of the Year was always going to be a near-impossible task.
Crucially, it's important to remember Fallout 3 is obviously not the sequel to Oblivion, but a faithful reimagining of a cult, if all-but forgotten, 90s PC RPG series. Bethesda stressed throughout the development process just how keen they were to retain the heritage of Black Isle's predecessors. So, in a sense they faced the near impossible task of appealing to both diehard Oblivion and Fallout fans - no mean feat. Don't believe us? Check out NME Fallout for some preposterous anti-Fallout 3 bile written by bitter fanboys of the highest order. It sure ain't easy to please the public nowadays, even if you're a dev of Bethesda's quality.
So are we saying Fallout 3 is bad? Not at all; it's one of the finest games of the year; maybe even generation. Go out and buy it by the bucketload, because Bethesda deserves both your praise and your hard-earned. Instead, look upon these two pages as a testament to just how far ahead of the curve Oblivion really was - and an encouragement to revisit Cyrodiil for one last adventure... Only after you've put 100 hours into Fallout 3, mind.
Head-to-head: Eye Candy
Tricky one, this. Technically, Fallout 3 shows how far the Gamebryo engine has evolved since the poor draw distances and low-res textures that occasionally marred Oblivion, while set piece events like the destruction of Megaton are more singularly jaw-dropping than anything that occurred in Cyrodiil. That said, trudging through identikit wastelands simply doesn't match up to the hauntingly beautiful, varied vistas of Oblivion. Sunshine for the win!
Winner: Oblivion
Game World
It's been well documented just how teeny the Capital Wastelands seem in comparison to the sprawling world of Tamriel, and - in terms of square kilometres - it's true enough. We're also a bit narked that, unlike your trusty horsie in the last Elder Scrolls outing, there's no form of transport apart from your knackered tootsies in the radioactive world of Fallout 3. Saying that, the wasteland does win out in terms of sheer denseness...
Winner: Oblivion
Scrapping
It's here where Fallout 3 finally gains some ground. Unlike the wretched mixture of thwacking a goblin with a spiked club while tossing the occasional fireball in their vague direction, Fallout 3's fighty bits come to life thanks to V.A.T.S. (the good ol' Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System, as if you had to ask). It's slick, sick, thoroughly gory, adds a neat tactical element to proceedings and simply never gets boring. Result for Fallout boy this time.
Winner: Fallout 3
Questing
A much more compelling story than Oblivion's snore-inducing Daedra plotline initially gives Fallout 3 the edge, but despite twenty hours of wandering the Capital Wastelands we failed to find anything that ever quite matched the lofty standards set by the final few Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood escapades. Worse still, without any real alternatives to Oblivion's guild quests it's hard to shake the feeling of an opportunity missed.
Have spent far more time playing Oblivion than i ever will playing Fallout... and you can keep playing after the main quest is finished to finish any other side quests.
Fallout 3 is a grower, the further you get in and the more perks and skills you pick up, the better it gets.
I'm playing both Oblivion GoTY edition and Fallout 3 for the PC at the moment and I think this review nailed each point spot on. Each game has drawing power and I'm enjoying each of them though when I grind through Fallout 3 I do miss the beauty and diversity of colourful Cyrodil in Oblivion.
I think Bethesda kinda ballsed up the ending the way they did, as it forces you to start from a save earlier in the game, i'm intrigued how downloadable content is going to fit in too.
The story does feel incredibly shorter too.
they REALLY need to add in some guilds, theres so many interesting factions, i could really see the addition adding some much needed longetivity
surprised at the verdict here. I've already spent some 30+ hours with Fallout 3, whereas maxing out the story and all guild quests for the achievements in Oblivion took me 56 in total, but I can see much more reason to revisit Fallourt 3 and explore a lot more than I already have. Most of the map is still uncovered for me so far.
Also, I'd argue that the questing in Fallout 3 feels far more natural and organic than the heavily structured missions Oblivion throws at you, and because of the setting, the various ruins and areas you come across have a much greater sense of purpose and backstory- not just Ruined Tower B.
A real tough one as Oblivion is in my all-time top ten (120 hours +) and I've only put about 15 so far into Fallout.
So far I'm initially loving Fallout more than I did Oblivion but that may be down to the fact that I've played Oblivion and know more-or-less what to expect.
Graphically it's very close. Fallout has great environments but they look a little samey, but the same can be levelled at Oblivion - for identiket Wasteland read identikit dungeons. NPC's look much better in Fallout though. Sound in both is fantastic but Fallout wins due to it not having half a dozen actors sharing the NPC voices (and the radio stations are great). Combat in Fallout is vastly superior to Oblivion - VATS is a triumph, plain and simple.
Oh and what seasoned player ever used the horses in Oblivion anyway? Fast Travel is an obvious solution but to build up Athletics you had to walk (or swim I know) and along the way build up your Magicka stats and Acrobatics by jumping along the way. The horses were pointless IMO - I ended up losing that one from the Dark Brotherhood about 10 minutes after I got it.
To be honest C&VG this whole article smacks of someone really enjoying Fallout but can't bear the fact that it might be better than Oblivion.
I have to say that i beleive oblivion is the all-round better game and it`s true that fallout 3 really grows on you even though you have to discover the torch funtion for yourself which made my first underground foray REALLY annoying first time i playede it i nearly(spelling) threw it away in discust(spelling) but as it goes on you get a bit stronger the game improves ,but having completed roughly half the game i just don`t feel the same pull after a week that oblivion had for months.
For me Oblivion sucked brahmin balls just did'nt like it the generic fantasy setting the combat and the character's speech all sucked. Fallout superior in every way apart from it ends.
Oblivion, Fallout 3. Both great games. But Morrowind beats the crap out of them =)
ooooh, I don't know. Fallout 3 comes close to Morrowind's unsung greatness at times. And VATS beats having to hunt everywhere for that damned Cliff racer thats attacking you ;-p
Using horses in Oblivion used to be the way you described them...until the mod community on the PC changed all of that. Now you can use both weapons and magika attacks while riding a horse. I stick to running and jumping regardless as it builds up athletics and acrobatics as you rightly pointed out. However, I have used horses to quickly cover a lot of territory in order to spot new ruins, caves, places, etc. on my world map before riding away with a small army of irate minotaurs, goblins, imps, brigants, etc. charging after me and raising holy hell when they encounter the adventurers, guards, merchants and other travellers I have active on the roads (thanks to yet another PC mod,) and the occassional Daedra shrine followers being caught in the onslaught. Hilarious pandemonium but make sure to save before the cultists get killed.
Coming back to Fallout 3 I agree with a previous poster that Fallout 3 really could benefit from faction guilds. I was surprised to hear that such did not exist as I was expecting the BoS to be a prime faction to join.
I'd have to go with Fallout 3 being slightly ahead for the following reasons:
1)Character Creation Despite having more slides than every playground in the world combined, Oblivion's face-creation utility almost always had your characters looking like shaved Wombles. It took almost an hour of tweaking and fine tuning to make a character look half decent. Fallout 3 on the other hand has less sliders, but does a far better job, allowing more variety with less. It's a good mix of what Oblivion had and what Mass Effect had.
2) Master of All Trades Oblivion suffered from any player being able to not only become a Jack of All Trades, but a Master of All Trades too. You could max almost every damn skill and become an awesome Fighter, Mage, Thief and everything else. You could become the head of the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild, a Knight of the Nine, the head of the Dark Brotherhood, etc. all with one character, regardless of skill or alignment. Fallout 3 is far more restrictive, penalising those who don't specialise, and tends to take into account what you've done and locks off certain things when you've done others.
3) Levelling Oblivion's levelling system was, quite frankly, completely retarded. The idea behind it was good, but when it came to implementation, it turned out to make the most of it you had to almost do things backwards to how your character was supposed to be to get those +5 levelling bonuses, and any default class was best replaced by a custom one in all cases. Not to mention the issues with accidental levelling because you stuck just that one extra time, or picked that one extra lock, or jumped once too often, etc. Fallout 3's levelling system is far better, using a purely XP-based system and restricting you more.
4)Generic NPCs While Fallout 3 still suffers from this a little, Oblivion's NPC's all pretty much sounded and looked the same, and were always having the same pieces of inane dialogue between themselves. Fallout 3 does a better job on all fronts: the characters are recognisable and different enough, the dialogue is more varied and character-specific and there seems to be more variation in the characters, at least the named ones.
5)Optionless Dialogue Oblivion had a terrible aenemic option when it came to dialogue options, particuarly quest ones. With a few rare exceptions, it was usually just either do the quest or do not, with the option still usually there if you initially refused to come back later. Alignment had no real bearing on it, and you'd usually still end up gaining positive alignment just for doing the quests in 90% of cases. Fallout 3 at least has some options and variations, with choices and consequences, alignment meaning something in the universe to the characters around you, and quests being opened or locked off depending on your actions. Oblivion lacked any real Good, Neutral and Bad options. Fallout 3 thrives on them with almost everything you choose.
6)Nonsensical Minigames Simply put, Oblivion's lockpicking and silly personality Simon Says games were kind of stupid. The lockpicking and computer hacking is far more immersive and realistic in Fallout 3. Nuff said.
7)Combat When it came down to it all, Oblivion's combat was pretty much just running at the enemy and hacking them to bits. Sure, there was a little more to it than that, but that was pretty much it really. Fallout 3 has more layers to its combat, especially with regards to V.A.T.S. and your stats, which play a far bigger part here. You can feel the dice rolling whenever you use it, making it more of an RPG and less of an action game. Sure, you can play Fallout 3 as a 3D shooter and ignore V.A.T.S. entirely, but I'd wager that you'll likely be chewing through the ammo fairly fast if you do. They're best used together, a mix of V.A.T.S. and your own skills. Oblivion is bare bones combat at its simplest, Fallout 3 at least has something more to it.
I'll admit that Oblivion is prettier as far as environment goes, but Fallout 3 has its own majesty, even if it's all brown and yellow and desolate. It's just as visually impressive, just in a different way. In fact, visually it absolutely nails the style it's going for, and the character models are an improvement on Oblivion too. Aethetically Oblivion is more beautiful, but technically Fallout 3 is visually more impressive, IMO. They're both fantastic looking games, and I'd pretty much put them on par actually.
The one thing not mentioned, which is so incredibly surprising, is that the same voice actors were used in Fallout 3, killing any immersion! Mr. Burke from Megaton is voiced by the same NPC who invites you into The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion! The voice isn't even disguised! How can a game be immersive if the same voice actors are used over and over? In the same bar in Megaton as Mr. Burke there is a Ghoul. It uses the Argonian voice actor! That to me is the opitimy of dumbing down!
When you look at the trends of Morrowind to Oblivion to Fallout 3 from Bethesda and Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment to Mass Effect there are some very scary dumbing down and shrinking worlds/shallower stories going on in RPG'ing!
Don't know if it's the same guy that voiced Lucien but it is certainly the same guy that voiced one of the many, many Imperial Legionaires. I like his voice for Mr. Burke better though.
I'd have to go with Fallout 3 being slightly ahead for the following reasons:
1)Character Creation Despite having more slides than every playground in the world combined, Oblivion's face-creation utility almost always had your characters looking like shaved Wombles. It took almost an hour of tweaking and fine tuning to make a character look half decent. Fallout 3 on the other hand has less sliders, but does a far better job, allowing more variety with less. It's a good mix of what Oblivion had and what Mass Effect had.
When I first played Oblivion back in 2006 this was the case. However! Now that I'm playing Oblivion again - with a few more years of experiences, developments and patience - I'm actually coming up with some quite attractive female faces. The men's faces I create have improved as well but still fall short of the female ones in my opinion. Patience, a deft touch and various combinations of the facial, eyes, hair and body enhancing mods for the PC version can, and does, do wonders here.
Yes, but you can't compare Modded Oblivion as it is today with Fallout 3. When making a comparison like this you have to take Vanilla Oblivion as it is straight out of the box, not when it's got hundreds of mods attached to it.
Using horses in Oblivion used to be the way you described them...until the mod community on the PC changed all of that. Now you can use both weapons and magika attacks while riding a horse.
Ah, I've played it on 360 and PS3 only. Well... I do have it on PC but having got so used to the pad control of the consoles it feels alien, so gave up That and it bloody froze every ten minutes
Your argument doesn't really make sense here... are you suggesting that companies should never use a voice actor who has had a role in another game? You can't blame a director for casting an actor whose work he likes; Jennifer Hale voices characters in Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic, but I don't see why that classes as dumbing anything down.
Extending that logic, Blade Runner is dumbed down because the same guy who was in Star Wars plays Dekkard....
As for those commenting on the mods, I agree that you can't compare modded Oblivion to 'vanilla' Fallout 3- its just not a fair comparison at all.
Oblivion was a quality game, but Fallout has me gripped and enthralled like only 2 other games prior FF7 & Deus Ex. The world portrayed is frighteningly believeable, yeah there are flaws in the design, clipping and AI issues, but when one minute your thinking 'what a fantastic world they created' then the next it's 'thank f**k I dont live there', it's got you like Oblivion never did.
Oblivion was deffo better I always new where I was in that game kinda easy to get lost or bored through not exploring in this one, maybe Fallout4 will be more Elder Scrolls scale game. Not that this is a bad game it's far from my favourite but I'm not far in and I'm not sure the settings my thing. I can't wait for the Elderscrolls 5 hope its in the works now.
Ah, I've enjoyed Fallout 3 way more then I did oblivion. Oblivion , though it felt larger, felt a lot more empty and it seem that a lot of the space was pretty unused and pointless besides just adding more tedious space to traverse through. There are definitely more epic moments in Fallout 3(Don't want to spoil them). And as has been already mentioned, Oblivion's leveling system wasn't that great. And Fallout's Characters and Story is hands down better then anything oblivion has. In my opinion Oblivion was good, but a bit more hyped up then it should have been. This is just considering the console version of both games.
Ah, I've enjoyed Fallout 3 way more then I did oblivion. Oblivion , though it felt larger, felt a lot more empty and it seem that a lot of the space was pretty unused and pointless besides just adding more tedious space to traverse through. There are definitely more epic moments in Fallout 3(Don't want to spoil them). And as has been already mentioned, Oblivion's leveling system wasn't that great. And Fallout's Characters and Story is hands down better then anything oblivion has. In my opinion Oblivion was good, but a bit more hyped up then it should have been. This is just considering the console version of both games.
You realize the hype argument could also be applied to fallout 3 i was expecting it to be huge when the only thing stopping you from getting around is uber-strong enemies(spelling,also oblivion should have had that ,and the ability to travel only to cities you have already been to)
Oblivion (360 version) was a once thru'er. It may have taken me 80 hours but in that time I more or less saw everything, did everything, and maxed everything without ever having to make a decision more important than what clothes to put on when i went out hunting.
I've barely started Fallout 3 and already i feel more a part of the world, interacting and actually having an effect upon it, than i ever did in Oblivion.
Modders have taken over and improved Oblivion tenfold and i expect them to do the same for Fallout 3.
The one thing not mentioned, which is so incredibly surprising, is that the same voice actors were used in Fallout 3, killing any immersion! Mr. Burke from Megaton is voiced by the same NPC who invites you into The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion! The voice isn't even disguised! How can a game be immersive if the same voice actors are used over and over? In the same bar in Megaton as Mr. Burke there is a Ghoul. It uses the Argonian voice actor! That to me is the opitimy of dumbing down!
When you look at the trends of Morrowind to Oblivion to Fallout 3 from Bethesda and Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment to Mass Effect there are some very scary dumbing down and shrinking worlds/shallower stories going on in RPG'ing!
Seriously, Well I must be utterly retarded then because i love seeing the same voice actors popping up. Its not easy to act when you can't use your body at all. I know this'll no doubt ruin both oblivion and Fallout for you forever but..
You know the king in Oblivion- Thats sean beane the guy that plays sharpe and borrowmire
The narrator is patrick stewart. So thats star trek destroyed then
Your dad in Fallout is played by Liam Neeson , SO dON't bother watching Darkman or the phantom menace.
I think the dumb one may be you. because its not just these games that have the same actors its most of them because only a handful of people do voice acting for a living.
Oh and guess what the characters don't look like the actors do either. Well thats my suspension of disbelief completely gone. grrr i'll just get back to enjoying games and not nit picking and being a snob.
To TerrorK: A salient point in regards to comparing a vanilla version vs. a heavily modded one. It'll be intersting to see if Beth releases a CS kit for FO3 like they did with Oblivion, and if so, what kind of creativity the net crowd comes up with.
To trooperdx3117:
I think we're going to be in the same boat. While I hopefully have lots left to do in FO3 I already now suspect it won't draw me back in quite as often as a modded version of Oblivion does. I could be proven wrong in time. Regardless, I consider both games heavy hitting successes for Bethesda.
The one thing not mentioned, which is so incredibly surprising, is that the same voice actors were used in Fallout 3, killing any immersion! Mr. Burke from Megaton is voiced by the same NPC who invites you into The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion! The voice isn't even disguised! How can a game be immersive if the same voice actors are used over and over? In the same bar in Megaton as Mr. Burke there is a Ghoul. It uses the Argonian voice actor! That to me is the opitimy of dumbing down!
When you look at the trends of Morrowind to Oblivion to Fallout 3 from Bethesda and Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment to Mass Effect there are some very scary dumbing down and shrinking worlds/shallower stories going on in RPG'ing!
Seriously, Well I must be utterly retarded then because i love seeing the same voice actors popping up. Its not easy to act when you can't use your body at all. I know this'll no doubt ruin both oblivion and Fallout for you forever but..
You know the king in Oblivion- Thats sean beane the guy that plays sharpe and borrowmire
The narrator is patrick stewart. So thats star trek destroyed then
Your dad in Fallout is played by Liam Neeson , SO dON't bother watching Darkman or the phantom menace.
I think the dumb one may be you. because its not just these games that have the same actors its most of them because only a handful of people do voice acting for a living.
Oh and guess what the characters don't look like the actors do either. Well thats my suspension of disbelief completely gone. grrr i'll just get back to enjoying games and not nit picking and being a snob.
I agree with your sentiment though I don't think it necessarily makes the other poster "dumb". That said, couldn't you have picked some other movies to display Liam Neeson's considerable acting talents in a more flattering light?
Ok Oblivion and Fallout have some similarities especially as they are the same engine and all, but is it really fair to compare them like this? The way Fallout plays is quite a bit different from Oblivion, being more of an shooter exploration. I think if you would compare Fallout 3 to anything it would be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - They're both in Nuclear Fallout and both explorating, non linear shooters. You cant really beat Oblivion for what it is, which is why Bethesda have tried something different I guess...... probably to avoid comparisons like this.
As for those commenting on the mods, I agree that you can't compare modded Oblivion to 'vanilla' Fallout 3- its just not a fair comparison at all.
YES YOU CAN!!! Not fair is comparing Fallout to a game nearly 3 years its junior! I'm sure that if I started a topic 3 years later, pitting Elder Scrolls 5 against Fallout 3, I'd get nothing but "lolz" as our laughing posters tread on their neglected Fallout 3 discs, just to humour me.
Over past 3 years, people expect more from their games. It's not enough nowadays that you can ride a horse, whereas back then it was a revolution in gaming technology. People EXPECT to be able to fight on horseback now, so the add-ons provide us with the updated demands of today - which is what Fallout 3 MUST deliver raw, being a more recent game.
Oblivion with add-ons = Oblivion wins Oblivion without add-ons = Oblivion wins
Fallout 3 is a great game, it really is. But as far as I'm concerned it was time wasted on what should have been Elder Scrolls 5.
As for those commenting on the mods, I agree that you can't compare modded Oblivion to 'vanilla' Fallout 3- its just not a fair comparison at all.
YES YOU CAN!!! Not fair is comparing Fallout to a game nearly 3 years its junior! I'm sure that if I started a topic 3 years later, pitting Elder Scrolls 5 against Fallout 3, I'd get nothing but "lolz" as our laughing posters tread on their neglected Fallout 3 discs, just to humour me.
Over past 3 years, people expect more from their games. It's not enough nowadays that you can ride a horse, whereas back then it was a revolution in gaming technology. People EXPECT to be able to fight on horseback now, so the add-ons provide us with the updated demands of today - which is what Fallout 3 MUST deliver raw, being a more recent game.
Oblivion with add-ons = Oblivion wins Oblivion without add-ons = Oblivion wins
Fallout 3 is a great game, it really is. But as far as I'm concerned it was time wasted on what should have been Elder Scrolls 5.
Oblivion definitely had more depth, and you do need to consider the age difference. It also required more patience so there was dangers of boredom. Let's not forget that one of the major appeals to an RPG is the levelling up and finding equipment until you are a super-character, speeding across the landscape and destroying trolls in one swipe of a sword. Oblivion's biggest let-down was bumping into bandits kitted out in shiny glass armour i.e. ALL the bad guys all levelling up at the same time as you did. I've had more fun with the Fallout system of taking out a mole rat with ease then stumbling under-prepared into a Super-mutant vs Brotherhood fight. More realism. But I miss the uncapped super-character possibilities of Oblivion.
When you look at the trends of Morrowind to Oblivion to Fallout 3 from Bethesda and Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment to Mass Effect there are some very scary dumbing down and shrinking worlds/shallower stories going on in RPG'ing!
There's a general perception amongst developers that console gamers are not as "sophisticated" as PC gamers, and thus "complicated" storytelling and gameplay devices which many PC gamers love supposedly won't appeal to most console gamers.
This means that, because 99% of modern games are designed primarily for console, they're not as sophisticated as older games for which the PC was given priority.
Case in point: Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, and Morrowind were PC games (although the latter was ported to the original XBox), while Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 were designed mainly for the consoles, with the PC version of each being virtually an afterthought.
Other examples of this would be Deus Ex and Thief. Deus Ex and Thief 1 & 2 were PC games (although Deus Ex was ported to the PS2), while their sequels, Thief 3 and Deus Ex: Invisible War, were mainly aimed at a console audience. Consequently, they were blatantly "dumbed down" from their predecessors... and both are generally loathed by fans of the originals.
Of course, whether games developers' belief that (to put it bluntly) the average console gamer is not as intelligent as the average PC gamer is an accurate reflection of reality or not, is another matter entirely... although I will say that 15 minutes playing an on-line PC game (especially Counterstrike and WoW) puts a rather major dent in the theory .
For the console versions I have to go with Fallout because Oblivion has a built in game killer bug that Bethsoft will not address no matter what.Static light effects,really slowed down door--display case openings.Spell nimbus impairs vision.The root cause is a hexadecimal sum that needs to be changed.Third party modders solved it with a patch for the P.C edition.PS3 and 360 owners are screwed.OBLIVION can be played indefinitely as long as you do so in less than 200 hours because thats when the bug usually starts to manifest itself.Some have gone longer,but it is an IED just waiting to go off.Nuff Said.
IMHO I think you cannot really compare them because they were meant to be different games for a reason. But if I'd compare them, Oblivion would be better for me because it has way more hours of gameplay than Fallout 3, even with the new expansions. The only thing I didn't like about Oblivion was its stupid leveling glitches where all you had to do was tape the damn left thumbstick and leave the xbox on overnight, then you were like level 100 at the damn skill.
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Now you can use both weapons and magika attacks while riding a horse. I stick to running and jumping regardless as it builds up athletics and acrobatics as you rightly pointed out. However, I have used horses to quickly cover a lot of territory in order to spot new ruins, caves, places, etc. on my world map before riding away with a small army of irate minotaurs, goblins, imps, brigants, etc. charging after me and raising holy hell when they encounter the adventurers, guards, merchants and other travellers I have active on the roads (thanks to yet another PC mod,) and the occassional Daedra shrine followers being caught in the onslaught. Hilarious pandemonium but make sure to save before the cultists get killed.
That and it bloody froze every ten minutes 
.
