Phil Harrison is convinced that the game industry's future audience will not be reliant on physical forms of media.
Speaking to Edge, the Atari company president said that "there's a generation of kids being born today and probably already alive who I'm pretty confident will never buy a physical media product. They will never buy a DVD, they will never buy a CD, and they will never buy a game in a box."
Harrison and Atari CEO David Gardner are already gearing the company towards this perceived trend. Back in September Gardner explained that the future of Atari lies in online play and distribution, with the former EA executive declaring that "within five years 90 per cent of our products will be online."
So many people keep saying this and it's still not going to happen unless the next generation holds off for 10 years or so.
The telecoms infrastructure (at least in Europe) is not in place to handle it. Downloading an 8Gb DVD takes long enough, but can you imagine a million people downloading a 50Gb client on launch day? It would bring ISPs to their knees.
Not only that, storage for this media is still priced up the Yin-Yang (on consoles) so until they can give me a 500Gb hard drive for Ł50, this is impractical.
We'll go physical-free in the end, but not the next generation.
I was always the sort of person who wanted the box because it looked pretty. That was until one Sunday afternoon when I really had a craving to try out Battlefield 2142, and was able to buy and download the game in an hour without leaving home and outside shopping hours. It is definitely the way forward.
On a personal level, I do like having boxes as well. I'm a bit OCD so I like having them organised and alphabetical and stuff. Also, it's just nice to look down and be able to see what you've paid your money for.
The other advantage is in the event of a major malfunction you don't lose everything and need to download it again.
I'm old school, I guess. I enjoy not only the obvious side of playing games but also the collecting aspect. I like to have a collection of things I like, not just in a digital form stored on a hard drive. It seems to lose a certain value. Look at music.
But yes it will happen when the services are in place, its funny there are kids that have never seen things like a vinyl LP before, and just look at things like iTunes and mp3 players, its definitely going that way for the mass consumer.
Will be a bit crap for giving gifts though! What will you get a download code or something. Very tactile.....!
I'm for and against really, I like downloading demos from Xbox Live, but I love packaging and collectors editions and stuff. I think we should still be given an option as consumers even if the digital delivery mechanism's are available.
The only downside that I can see to all this (and I can see it being a major downside to some) is that with digital only copies of software controlled by DRM (as we have with XBox Live Arcade) are yours forever. There is no option to free up some cash to put towards a newer game by trading them in; there is no way of lending a copy to your mate to try out or even selling to your mate. While that's great news for the publishers, it will have significant implications for the games industry - I know that my son has owned a huge number of games for his 360, but never has more than about 10 in his collection at any given time. He was the same with his PS2 before that... You can guarantee that publishers won't take the opportunity to lower prices, so not only will there be no option to trade, but we'll be paying through the nose for the privilege too. Also, if digital distribution is the way forward, what impact will this have on our choice of retailer? Presumably we'll be limited to buying through PSN or XBLA - so gone are the days of cheap games (in comparison to RRP or high street prices) from places like Play.com...
I don't think you will be downloading games or videos in the future. You'll be streaming it from a server onto your console/media centre/pc. Kind of a on demand type service.
I don't think you will be downloading games or videos in the future. You'll be streaming it from a server onto your console/media centre/pc. Kind of a on demand type service.
Both ways have there advantages, but i have to agreed there is a on going problems in the case of broadband providers & network. I have 20mb broadband and it still takes along time to download mmo clients that are 2-3gb. For most people they don't even get 10% of that speed. But also games are going to get bigger and bigger especially as each generation of hardware means bigger better graphics & gameplay. So its a ever decreasing circle. Everytime the network is upgraded to have faster download speeds the game & media get bigger so your never going to get decent download times. Plus people like to own stuff in a physical sense as well. Plus The IP companies are going to have to drop the download limits & fair usage policy if we are going to be able to download massive files as well!!!
I guess the only problem I have with the whole thing is that you lose the sense of a collection.
I have 100 albums ripped to my computer, and it just doesn't create the same feelings as I have when I looked at them on my shelf in their cases.
There's nothing quite like having a collection of something whether it be DVDs, music, games or coins.
Of course I also agree with others that digital distribution wont take off until we have the infrastructure to support it.
if your computer has decent speakers and a sub, then who cares about cds? press J and search for a tune you want and viola. or you could hunt down a scabby cd, insert it, load it up and play the album. bulls**t. plus seeking on a cd player is useless.
also if you have any livesets that go on for hours then the seeking becomes invaluable.
unless its something special then it might as well be digital.
example. a limited edition 1994 green vinyl EP by paul van dyk. i can rip vinyl, but thats not the point in this case.
I don't dispute that future retail development will increasingly take e-tail in to account yet the fact remains that ca. half the global population hasn't used a phone according to a UN survey. Granted it's some years old now so it may be a third now, yet the point remains that the developed world has a tendency to think that the services and conveniences it's used to are available worldwide. They are not. Indeed, the developed world's lifestyle is in the minority demographically speaking.
I think online media content can be very useful yet I abhor DRM and I like having a physical copy of certain things. Also there is the issue of having to download everything again if you have a new HDD etc. Live streaming? As others have also stated the infrastructure simply isn't in place yet for that kind of connectivity for everyone. Sure, in some of the developed world's major cities but even in the West large areas do not have broadband connectivity yet.
I don't dispute that future retail development will increasingly take e-tail in to account yet the fact remains that ca. half the global population hasn't used a phone according to a UN survey. Granted it's some years old now so it may be a third now, yet the point remains that the developed world has a tendency to think that the services and conveniences it's used to are available worldwide. They are not. Indeed, the developed world's lifestyle is in the minority demographically speaking.
Ooo, bloody good point, never considered that. Though, is it fair to assume that those people that are buying consoles and other high end electronics would at least have access to things like phone lines? *shrug* Even still, good point, well made.
I guess the only problem I have with the whole thing is that you lose the sense of a collection.
I have 100 albums ripped to my computer, and it just doesn't create the same feelings as I have when I looked at them on my shelf in their cases.
There's nothing quite like having a collection of something whether it be DVDs, music, games or coins.
Of course I also agree with others that digital distribution wont take off until we have the infrastructure to support it.
if your computer has decent speakers and a sub, then who cares about cds? press J and search for a tune you want and viola. or you could hunt down a scabby cd, insert it, load it up and play the album. bulls**t. plus seeking on a cd player is useless.
also if you have any livesets that go on for hours then the seeking becomes invaluable.
unless its something special then it might as well be digital.
example. a limited edition 1994 green vinyl EP by paul van dyk. i can rip vinyl, but thats not the point in this case.
your favourite kasabian cd doesnt cut it.
I have them ripped to my computer for the advantages you've described. However, I think you are completely missing my point about having a collection of something. Whether or not something is worth keeping and adding to a collection is subjective. In your case a CD is not, in mine it is.
Tell you what Phil, you stick all your products online, give them zero presence in the high street, and let's see how well your sales improve shall we?
Go on... put your money where your mouth is. I don't want to see any Atari product in hard format ever again.
He needs to contact BT then - cos he can say what he wants, but until the infrastructure is in place to cope with this, it AIN'T gonna happen.
arent BT already upgrading the network to fibre optic? they have announced plans to have an infrastructure in place within 4 years to enable connections of 100mb. this should affect 10 million homes (apparently). they need this so they can stream full HD TV via bt vision as they only offer 720p at the moment i think.
i couldnt care less if i have a disc or not as using steam is by far the best experience i have when buying games now. it might take a few hours to download a game but it takes days to get a game via mail order. one thing is that if you download a game you can do something enjoyable while you wait rather than out shopping in the high street.
One thing though: Traditionally being able to play on a console, or PC for that matter, hasn't required an active internet connection nor phone line. While the developed world has vast amounts of money (or used to - hehe) there is still business to be done in the developed world where some people may have TV sets and electricity along with a mobile phone but no stable internet connectivity.
i couldnt care less if i have a disc or not as using steam is by far the best experience i have when buying games now. it might take a few hours to download a game but it takes days to get a game via mail order. one thing is that if you download a game you can do something enjoyable while you wait rather than out shopping in the high street.
However, some people *cough* are 'forced' to go shopping with their respective others, and popping into shops like Game make such trips borderline bareable...
Tell you what Phil, you stick all your products online, give them zero presence in the high street, and let's see how well your sales improve shall we?
Go on... put your money where your mouth is. I don't want to see any Atari product in hard format ever again.
Starting... NOW!
Starting now? I haven't seen one for about 5 years.
I guess the only problem I have with the whole thing is that you lose the sense of a collection.
I have 100 albums ripped to my computer, and it just doesn't create the same feelings as I have when I looked at them on my shelf in their cases.
There's nothing quite like having a collection of something whether it be DVDs, music, games or coins.
Of course I also agree with others that digital distribution wont take off until we have the infrastructure to support it.
if your computer has decent speakers and a sub, then who cares about cds? press J and search for a tune you want and viola. or you could hunt down a scabby cd, insert it, load it up and play the album. bulls**t. plus seeking on a cd player is useless.
Until these online stores offer flac or some other good lossy format and offer these without drm then no matter how good your pc speakers and soundcard are you are still stuck with rubbish low bitrate mp3s and prevented from doing what you like with those files. Remember MP3 is lossy so nomatter how good your equipment it can only produce the quality of the mp3. CDs are about as good quality as you can get and you can rip these to your hearts content to whatever format you like and you still have the original high quality original.
arent BT already upgrading the network to fibre optic? they have announced plans to have an infrastructure in place within 4 years to enable connections of 100mb. this should affect 10 million homes (apparently).
They're rolling out the 21CN stuff already, but it will never be done in the timescale they're talking. And besides, 10 million in 4 years isn't even a quarter of the UK. By that time London's population will have almost matched that (but I believe the first area 21CN is reaching is around Newcastle).
And even when it is done, your download speed will be limited by the number of other people trying to use it at the same time. And if they're including TV services on there, the lines will be packed. And it'll need redone in a few years anyway when the current IP range runs out.
i couldnt care less if i have a disc or not as using steam is by far the best experience i have when buying games now. it might take a few hours to download a game but it takes days to get a game via mail order. one thing is that if you download a game you can do something enjoyable while you wait rather than out shopping in the high street.
However, some people *cough* are 'forced' to go shopping with their respective others, and popping into shops like Game make such trips borderline bareable...
thats unfortunate, im quite lucky as my other half seems to hate shopping as much as i do!
i couldnt care less if i have a disc or not as using steam is by far the best experience i have when buying games now. it might take a few hours to download a game but it takes days to get a game via mail order. one thing is that if you download a game you can do something enjoyable while you wait rather than out shopping in the high street.
However, some people *cough* are 'forced' to go shopping with their respective others, and popping into shops like Game make such trips borderline bareable...
thats unfortunate, im quite lucky as my other half seems to hate shopping as much as i do!
You are the minority, not the rule sadly. My lady knows I dislike that sort of shopping immensely, so doesn't ask me to go anymore. However, there are plenty of fallen comrades that aren't so lucky <makes whip cracking motion>
arent BT already upgrading the network to fibre optic? they have announced plans to have an infrastructure in place within 4 years to enable connections of 100mb. this should affect 10 million homes (apparently).
They're rolling out the 21CN stuff already, but it will never be done in the timescale they're talking. And besides, 10 million in 4 years isn't even a quarter of the UK. By that time London's population will have almost matched that (but I believe the first area 21CN is reaching is around Newcastle).
And even when it is done, your download speed will be limited by the number of other people trying to use it at the same time. And if they're including TV services on there, the lines will be packed. And it'll need redone in a few years anyway when the current IP range runs out.
arent BT already upgrading the network to fibre optic? they have announced plans to have an infrastructure in place within 4 years to enable connections of 100mb. this should affect 10 million homes (apparently).
They're rolling out the 21CN stuff already, but it will never be done in the timescale they're talking. And besides, 10 million in 4 years isn't even a quarter of the UK. By that time London's population will have almost matched that (but I believe the first area 21CN is reaching is around Newcastle).
And even when it is done, your download speed will be limited by the number of other people trying to use it at the same time. And if they're including TV services on there, the lines will be packed. And it'll need redone in a few years anyway when the current IP range runs out.
So I wouldn't give up on physical media just yet
its 10 million homes though not 10 million people but i dont know how many 'homes' there are in the uk or how many people require broadband. virgin media are going the same direction so if they both do it they only need to reach half the population each.
i couldnt care less if i have a disc or not as using steam is by far the best experience i have when buying games now. it might take a few hours to download a game but it takes days to get a game via mail order. one thing is that if you download a game you can do something enjoyable while you wait rather than out shopping in the high street.
However, some people *cough* are 'forced' to go shopping with their respective others, and popping into shops like Game make such trips borderline bareable...
thats unfortunate, im quite lucky as my other half seems to hate shopping as much as i do!
You are the minority, not the rule sadly. My lady knows I dislike that sort of shopping immensely, so doesn't ask me to go anymore. However, there are plenty of fallen comrades that aren't so lucky <makes whip cracking motion>
However, 'game shopping' takes all of a few minutes. More often than not I know what I'm gonna buy before even going into the shop. Which is probably the reason most of my game shopping is done online. Impulse buys are a thing of the past now games are 40 quid.
Dude, I would LOVE to work in the games industry, for anyone. Sadly, I lack the talent or skills. And no, working in Game does not constitute working in the games industry IMO
My first order of the day for Sony would be to convince them to change the horrid controller. It's my biggest bugbear with the PS3.
Dude, I would LOVE to work in the games industry, for anyone. Sadly, I lack the talent or skills. And no, working in Game does not constitute working in the games industry IMO
My first order of the day for Sony would be to convince them to change the horrid controller. It's my biggest bugbear with the PS3.
You'll struggle with the controller.
Can you work in London? Send your CV to: community.admin@scee.net
You do need fluent English. Oh and another language or two won't hurt. I already know you have a vested interest in gaming...
Er, did I miss something or did Mr Harrison actually say anything about this change being "any time soon"
He said "there's a generation of kids being born today and probably already alive who I'm pretty confident will never buy a physical media product."
The generation of newborns he's talking about will not be "buying" (i,e, with their own money, not "being bought" DVDs, games and the like for another 10 to 15 years. When he said "new generation" he wasn't talking about the console after the PS3 and 360.
I think what he says is plausible. We have 10 or so years to wait before we find out, but if you insist on arguing about it now and making it a conversation about BluRay Disks then I suppose what he actually said doesn't really matter.
arent BT already upgrading the network to fibre optic? they have announced plans to have an infrastructure in place within 4 years to enable connections of 100mb. this should affect 10 million homes (apparently).
They're rolling out the 21CN stuff already, but it will never be done in the timescale they're talking. And besides, 10 million in 4 years isn't even a quarter of the UK. By that time London's population will have almost matched that (but I believe the first area 21CN is reaching is around Newcastle).
And even when it is done, your download speed will be limited by the number of other people trying to use it at the same time. And if they're including TV services on there, the lines will be packed. And it'll need redone in a few years anyway when the current IP range runs out.
So I wouldn't give up on physical media just yet
its 10 million homes though not 10 million people but i dont know how many 'homes' there are in the uk or how many people require broadband. virgin media are going the same direction so if they both do it they only need to reach half the population each.
But the digital TV providers are already running out of space to deliver 720p with digital surround sound TV let alone 1080p with true HD surround sound! Imagine if they were also having to deliver 50gb games to everyone too!
I get my film rentals streamed to my TV via Virgin Media and they are adequate quality for a rental but they are 720p and compressed with no surround sound. I can see video rentals going down this route but not purchases anytime soon. Even if you had a 54mb line it would be quicker to go into town to buy your game than wait for 50gb to download.
This is at least another 15 years off before the networks are physically cabable of handling full hd stuff in minutes down a pipe, it does make sense to go fully online with all entertainment (films, tv, games, music) it would stop piracy more or less specially when it comes to music, films and games. Just imagine not being able to buy a retail copy of said item and having to download it, its drm free and its tagged with your name and address and such, so if it does find its way on the web for people to copy then they know, who's copy it was, thus ensuring nothing gets copied again.
It would mean cheaper media, but shops would go out off business, hmv, zavvi, wh smith etc....
I personally like having the physical media of said product weither that be a dvd, game or cd, but i do download alot of stuff, mainly tv shows with the odd film and album 9/10 i will buy what i download aswell to have my own copy of it.
Games will in the next generation go the way of the download to go with the shop floor presense, just think your xbox 720 or ps4 will have mega hdd, just connect to their online service, pick your game and either buy at a cheaper price than the shops, or a games rental service, pay so much per month for any amount of games, which when you play them last 7 days before deleting themselves off your hdd, whilst maintaining the savefile so if in the future you want to buy it again, you dont need to start again.
But like i said the mass market move to the era of the digital downloads for all media is at least 15 years away right now, the networks, the storage just isnt up to scratch right now.
I have well over 100 games on all formats, well over 400 dvd's and well over 300 cd's and if that was to become files, i would need 100tb harddrive just to fit it on.
Can you imagine what MS would charge for that hdd in the upgrade pack for the next xbox? my wallet would be empty before the wife gets her hands on it......
it seems to me that all the nay sayers are console users where there is no real facility to download and store games. as i mentioned earlier, steam already offers this with today's broadband speeds on the PC so it wont happen in the future, it happens now. it is quicker to buy a game from the high street but that also depends where you live as travelling to town and back can take a while. downloading games via steam takes a few hours in my experience and it preloads files before release date so you have most of what you need before the game is released.
the main problem for me is storage as the consoles don't come with big enough storage devices to do this. it would take a while to download a game you haven't played in a while if you have deleted to make room for something else.
I will ALWAYS buy physical media, at least if I delete the DLC, change my hardware or whatever, I will ALWAYS have the physical media to re-install.
ISP's hate you downloading and to try to download a few blu-ray discs worth of games or films is going to have them restricting your downloads like crazy.
DLC can go and blow as far as I am concerned. I want the disc and manual and I want the box set trilogy film sets...
Also, despite the fact I can use DNLA to stream video to my TV, it is completely impractical to download video to PC, turn on the PC, turn on the TV and browse to the library to watch a film. I'll use this for looking at our family album of digital photo's and videos, but for high quality video viewing I and the family will always sit round the TV in the living room and crack open the dvd/blu-ray box.
Thats what you think Harrison. I for one am not interested in any way in having some annoyomus file on an hdd somewhere where no-one can see it. I'd rather have a box/case on my shelf sitting in my collection complete with instruction booklet, and any special edition extra stuff if there is any for that particular title. I have absolutely zero interest in buying a game if I cannot have a physical copy.
It would KILL the used game market that's for sure. I could care less about having a box. I have an old Xbox, PS1 and a Saturn as well as my Atari 2600 from when I was a kid and that crap starts to just be in the way after awhile. I might hook one up every few years, play it for 10 minutes and remember why it's not hooked up anymore.
I hear that loud and clear, Sonic_UK. Sure, I might be willing to consider downloading some games without having a disc media. Call me old fashioned but I'm not ready to give up the physical gaming discs just yet.
The big issue is that most Americans have the internet infrastructure to support downloadable games, but the majority of the UK doesn't, until fibre optic becomes widely available anyway, which won't be sufficient until 2015. They need to get their heads out of the clouds and really think about it.
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I haven't seen one for about 5 years.
DVDs, games and the like for another 10 to 15 years. When he said "new generation" he wasn't talking about the console after the PS3 and 360.
