After the American site posted a 2/10 Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 review (Football Manager to you and me) the internet went a bit mental. And rightly so. The reviewer seemed to totally miss the point of the world's greatest football (not soccer) management game.
We missed the mark -- that's the only way to explain why we've pulled the U.S. review of Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 off our site.
After seeing the community feedback and having more editors look at the title, we agree with the readers that our original review didn't give Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 a fair shake. Unfortunately, our critical analysis of WWSM '09 focused more on what the author wanted it to be rather than what the product actually was.
We review games at IGN based on their own merits, and agree that it was unreasonable to compare WWSM '09 with action-oriented sports titles like FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer. Because of the unfair comparison, we have deemed the review unacceptable and have removed it from the site.
We extend our sincerest apologies to both SEGA and our readers for the mistake and confusion. Look for an updated and more accurate relation of IGN's view of WWSM '09 sometime in the near future.
Jeremy Dunham Games Editorial Manager
Fair play. Should have just posted the glowing UK review?
That's pretty freakin funny. I can only assume that the reviewer knew absolutely nothing about soccer (football to normal folk). Surely that would have come up at some point in the review process.
"Hey Frank, you wanna review the new soccer game?"
"Yeah sure, although I don't know much about the sport!"
"No worries man...you played Mario Strikers right? Well, it's basically the same thing, only minus Mario!"
"Oh....oh, well that's ok then, after all, I do love Mario."
IGNs reviews are the absolute worst out there. All EA games/Ubisoft all get 8-10 reviews, they get early previews and reviews based on them providing high review scores.
Then again the GTA IV PC review here was $hit too. IGN gave it 9.2 and the reader average was 4.5 lol
That's pretty freakin funny. I can only assume that the reviewer knew absolutely nothing about soccer (football to normal folk). Surely that would have come up at some point in the review process.
"Hey Frank, you wanna review the new soccer game?"
"Yeah sure, although I don't know much about the sport!"
"No worries man...you played Mario Strikers right? Well, it's basically the same thing, only minus Mario!"
"Oh....oh, well that's ok then, after all, I do love Mario."
"Fu*kin amen to that!"
The above quotes are based on true events.
I almost laughed but then realised it probably happened that way so I cried instead...
I don't know why anyone wanting a good, considered review of a football game would read a US review anyway. Apart from for comedic value of course.
Fair play to the IGN editor who issued the apology and had the impetus to pull the offending article....And I agree with the first poster on this thread and Liam 05's post made me laugh. Cheers fellas!
A few people here already know of my hate for Football Manager, so this post should come as no surprise... I feel that IGN were right. They simply recognised it for what it is... a pile of s**t. It's a much fairer review than you would ever read from a British site, because the American view of the game is not tainted by a love of football.
Whether or not you enjoy this game is based solely on whether or not you like soccer. I think IGN's review was an accurate reflection of this. They don't like soccer, therefore there is nothing to like about this game. There is hardly any gameplay to speak of and absolutely no redeeming qualities.
The difference between IGN and a British reviewer would be as follows: How do you find the graphics? US Crap UK Crap How about the sound? US Crap UK Crap The gameplay? US Crap UK Crap Ah, but do you like football? US No, this game still sucks. UK Yeah, I love football. Therefore this game, by virtue of being football related, is actually the best thing ever, despite lacking in every area essential to qualifying as a videogame, let alone a good one.
I expect someone will take offense at this post, but I do make a valid, and coincidentally 100% correct , point.
I don't have to enjoy watching fat men stomp on turtles to enjoy Mario. I don't have to enjoy rolling hedgehogs into balls and sending them around loops to enjoy Sonic. The gameplay stands on it's own. As it always should. Football Manager is a massive failure in this regard. IGN was right. In fact they were being generous.
Normally I vehemently disagree with forced removal of reviews, but in this case I will make an exception. 2/10? "Why would some want to play this game when they could play Fifa or Pro Evo"? Idiot.
Proof that IGN games journos in the US are nothing but a bunch of morons who dole out scores that are consistantly off the mark almost all the bloody time. Fire that idiot!
Someone over at the SSMB posted a quote and the final scores segment of the review when it first went up, I've copied and pasted it here -
This game obviously aims to provide the deepest soccer simulation experience possible for the sport’s most passionate and informed fans, but it offers little to nothing that would appeal to a casual fan of the sport or to the average videogame enthusiast. The menus are complex and difficult to navigate, graphics are terrible, the sound is non-existent and there is no traditional gameplay to speak of. I couldn’t imagine why anybody would prefer Worldwide Soccer Manager to FIFA 09 or Pro Evolution Soccer 2009.
4.0 Presentation Although the menus are extremely involved and tough for beginners to navigate, the game’s depth is amazing. 2.0 Graphics While I appreciate that the introduction of 3D in-game graphics is a step forward for the franchise, those graphics are simply terrible. 0.5 Sound The only sound you’ll find in this game is the roar of the non-existent crowd… Absolutely worthless. 4.0 Gameplay Yes, the depth of management in this game is impressive. But, it’s not impressive enough to make up for the fact that you aren’t actually playing soccer. 2.0 Lasting Appeal This game is aimed at a very specific audience, and it’s inconceivable to me that anybody outside of that audience could play even an hour of this game before turning it off for good. 2.0 Terrible OVERALL (out of 10 / not an average)
Link - http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showtopic=36202&st=0#entry652799
Good God man, how can you compare Mario Kart and FM 09. FM 09 is a specialist game aimed at a specalist market and must be subsequently treated and reviewed on that basis. They aren't trying to make a football management sim for casual fans of football (or soccer), they are trying to, and have once again achieved in making an extremely indepth videogame with an emphasis clearly placed on the hardcore football supporter. They have made no effort to make this game accesible to non-fans of the sport, as, let's be honest, they're just not going to pick the game up. If you want a casual management title, I'm sure there is one or two on the DS.
Honestly, it would be me like me reviwing a baseball management sim and giving it a crappy score simply because I don't know the first thing about baseball "Why would you wanna play this crap when you can smash out a home run on Bigz for the Wii" - sometimes, I swear to God, I just have to qustion the basic common sense of some people.
A few people here already know of my hate for Football Manager, so this post should come as no surprise... I feel that IGN were right. They simply recognised it for what it is... a pile of s**t. It's a much fairer review than you would ever read from a British site, because the American view of the game is not tainted by a love of football.
Whether or not you enjoy this game is based solely on whether or not you like soccer. I think IGN's review was an accurate reflection of this. They don't like soccer, therefore there is nothing to like about this game. There is hardly any gameplay to speak of and absolutely no redeeming qualities.
The difference between IGN and a British reviewer would be as follows: How do you find the graphics? US Crap UK Crap How about the sound? US Crap UK Crap The gameplay? US Crap UK Crap Ah, but do you like football? US No, this game still sucks. UK Yeah, I love football. Therefore this game, by virtue of being football related, is actually the best thing ever, despite lacking in every area essential to qualifying as a videogame, let alone a good one.
I expect someone will take offense at this post, but I do make a valid, and coincidentally 100% correct , point.
I don't have to enjoy watching fat men stomp on turtles to enjoy Mario. I don't have to enjoy rolling hedgehogs into balls and sending them around loops to enjoy Sonic. The gameplay stands on it's own. As it always should. Football Manager is a massive failure in this regard. IGN was right. In fact they were being generous.
Did you read the review?
Reviewing a game is nothing to do with whether you are a fan of the genre or not, its about how well the game captures the audience its trying to capture.
I hate MGS and Final Fantasy, but would I give them 2/10? No! Why? Cos Im not an Idiot. You cant pick those games up and jump on turtles heads like Mario either, so does that make them just as bad as Football Manager?
How about MS Flight Simulator? Is that worse than Ace Combat because its not as accessible?
It was an absolute travesty of a review and the guy that did it should really be grateful he has a job.
He made no attempt to research the genre or compare it to any games that were even remotley similar. He actually used the phrase (Paraphrase), 'for what it does its brilliant, hardcore football fans will find tons of depth, but I dont understand why anyone would want to play this over Pro Evo or Fifa'.
Thats like reviewing MS Access and saying 'well as a database program it does its job very well, but personally I found it boring and would much rather play Gears of War, 2/10'.
I love football but I just couldn't get into it at all. I work with databases for my job and going onto football manager at the end of the day was not a relaxing activity. That said... I probably didn't give it the time it deserved, it was almost too big to comprehend and I didn't know where to start, so I gave up and went back to my 360. It's funny though that when I'm looking at reviews of things I look at the negatives to see if those things would bother me. Reviews are subjective and so you could argue that they are all wrong. For example - how many kids games get bad reviews cos they are written by an adult. 2 out of 10 however is a little low - If I was that reviewer I would hold my hand up and admit that perhaps I wasn't the best person to be reviewing it.
I agree with Megadroid to an extent. If you were to give a UK reviewer an NFL management game to review, it would probably get a similar 2/10 score.
However I think your comments:
"hardly any gameplay"; "no redeeming qualities"; and "lacking in every area essential to qualify as a videogame"
...are completly biased and unfair.
Who are you to judge what does and does not qualify as a video game. I don't like every single type of game genre out there. Sure football management games may not be your cup of tea (or mine for that matter) but there are thousands of people who each year buy the latest yealy update of FM or Championship Manager, much in the same way as others might with FIFA and Pro Evo.
Football Management games have been around far longer than a lot of other game genres, and they're probably one of the hardest out there to try and make appealing. Their gameplay is not action orientated. Instead, surely it's about making managment decisions and watching them outcome unfold on the pitch.
I agree with Megadroid to an extent. If you were to give a UK reviewer an NFL management game to review, it would probably get a similar 2/10 score.
However I think your comments:
"hardly any gameplay"; "no redeeming qualities"; and "lacking in every area essential to qualify as a videogame"
...are completly biased and unfair.
Who are you to judge what does and does not qualify as a video game. I don't like every single type of game genre out there. Sure football management games may not be your cup of tea (or mine for that matter) but there are thousands of people who each year buy the latest yealy update of FM or Championship Manager, much in the same way as others might with FIFA and Pro Evo.
Football Management games have been around far longer than a lot of other game genres, and they're probably one of the hardest out there to try and make appealing. Their gameplay is not action orientated. Instead, surely it's about making managment decisions and watching them outcome unfold on the pitch.
Well the games reviewing profession is in a sad state of affairs if thats true. I would like to think that any normal British games reviewer, if reviewing an NFL management game, would have the professionalism to do a bit of research on the genre and see how the game stands up to its rivals.
It may even include the phrase 'add 2 extra points if you like American Football.'
Im not even a fan of football manager, but I think a few people here have completley missed the point, and if you didnt read the review I guess you would miss the point.
The problem is that the guy just totally ignored his responsibility. It was a totally lazy and ignorant piece of journalism.
It was the equivelent of a plane smashing down and scraping along the run way and the pilot saying, 'what do you mean I was supposed to put the wheels down?'.
A few people here already know of my hate for Football Manager, so this post should come as no surprise... I feel that IGN were right. They simply recognised it for what it is... a pile of s**t. It's a much fairer review than you would ever read from a British site, because the American view of the game is not tainted by a love of football.
Whether or not you enjoy this game is based solely on whether or not you like soccer. I think IGN's review was an accurate reflection of this. They don't like soccer, therefore there is nothing to like about this game. There is hardly any gameplay to speak of and absolutely no redeeming qualities.
The difference between IGN and a British reviewer would be as follows: How do you find the graphics? US Crap UK Crap How about the sound? US Crap UK Crap The gameplay? US Crap UK Crap Ah, but do you like football? US No, this game still sucks. UK Yeah, I love football. Therefore this game, by virtue of being football related, is actually the best thing ever, despite lacking in every area essential to qualifying as a videogame, let alone a good one.
I expect someone will take offense at this post, but I do make a valid, and coincidentally 100% correct , point.
I don't have to enjoy watching fat men stomp on turtles to enjoy Mario. I don't have to enjoy rolling hedgehogs into balls and sending them around loops to enjoy Sonic. The gameplay stands on it's own. As it always should. Football Manager is a massive failure in this regard. IGN was right. In fact they were being generous.
I agree with Megadroid to an extent. If you were to give a UK reviewer an NFL management game to review, it would probably get a similar 2/10 score.
However I think your comments:
"hardly any gameplay"; "no redeeming qualities"; and "lacking in every area essential to qualify as a videogame"
...are completly biased and unfair.
Who are you to judge what does and does not qualify as a video game. I don't like every single type of game genre out there. Sure football management games may not be your cup of tea (or mine for that matter) but there are thousands of people who each year buy the latest yealy update of FM or Championship Manager, much in the same way as others might with FIFA and Pro Evo.
Football Management games have been around far longer than a lot of other game genres, and they're probably one of the hardest out there to try and make appealing. Their gameplay is not action orientated. Instead, surely it's about making managment decisions and watching them outcome unfold on the pitch.
Well the games reviewing profession is in a sad state of affairs if thats true. I would like to think that any normal British games reviewer, if reviewing an NFL management game, would have the professionalism to do a bit of research on the genre and see how the game stands up to its rivals.
It may even include the phrase 'add 2 extra points if you like American Football.'
Im not even a fan of football manager, but I think a few people here have completley missed the point, and if you didnt read the review I guess you would miss the point.
The problem is that the guy just totally ignored his responsibility. It was a totally lazy and ignorant piece of journalism.
It was the equivelent of a plane smashing down and scraping along the run way and the pilot saying, 'what do you mean I was supposed to put the wheels down?'.
I'd certainly hope so. I like to think that if you put and NFL management game, and football management game side by side, and each one was as good as the other in terms of representing their sport, that they'd get identical scores. However your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not this actually happens.
Even if a reviewer isnt really interested in the genre he/she will normally mention that in the review. Maybe the score would go down a couple of marks unintentionally from that perspective, but not from a 9.1 (IGN UKs score) to a 2!
I saw a review for MGS4 that gave it an 8 because the reviewer said he wasnt a fan of the series, but in his closing comments he said that if you a re a fan then you can add two marks to the score, because as far as fan service goes, its perfect. That seems perfectly fair to me.
The problem with the guy that reviewed Football manager is that he didnt even acknowledge the fact that the genre existed. I swear to God he'd never seen or heard of a game like that before.
"US No, this game still sucks. UK Yeah, I love football. Therefore this game, by virtue of being football related, is actually the best thing ever, despite lacking in every area essential to qualifying as a videogame, let alone a good one."
Have to disagree with this comment, if we take the most sterile approach and use the freedictionary.com's definition which is; "a game that can be played by using an electronic control to move symbols on the screen of a visual display unit"
The game clearly falls under that category! But you can also say that a videogame is a medium which allows the user to inhabit someone else and play out scenarios you couldn't do normally, or a method to escape the real world and play in an artificial one, a virtual playground that has a set of rules that a user plays by and not least just a form of entertainment etc etc. FM2009 falls under a few of these aswell. Just because a game doesn't have hyper realistic graphics of identical enemies to be shot in the face for 6-8 hours doesn't mean its not a game, - I'm not sayin you said it has to be a fps to be good by the way, just using an example - or it doesn't need a world and rules like mario to be a videogame etc.
I'm not the biggest fan of the game but to say it doesn't qualify as one is plain wrong....also I'll defend those charismatic little circles to the death
Why then are mag's assigning reviewers to games they have little or no interest in.
Granted that each reviewer may have their own favoured/specialised game genre. But, using your example, having a reviewer who has little interest in the MGS series, review it's forth instalment means that there's less comparrison made between the previous MGS games that I, as a buyer, would personally like to hear.
With a franchise like MGS, the score is almost irrelevent as it's gonna get bought regardless. There are plenty of reviewers out there who no doubt love MGS. In order for the review to give a fully comprehensive account of how the events within the game measure up to those in the series as a whole, plus the generic graphics, sound and gameplay categories, someone who is a fan would be far better suited to review the game.
Back on the football side of things, there are millions of football fans out there and I'm sure IGN US are capable of giving this review to someone has at least a passing interest in football, rather than couldn't give a sh!t.
Someone's already said it but this guy is lucky to still have his job. As a professional, you're expected to do some research into the product you're reviewing, making fair and unbiased views. All this guy did was see he got handed a "soccer" game and straight away starting making comparisons to Fifa and Pro Evo... If anything, this just goes to show you that you shouldn't always buy games based on reviews and instead form your own opinion, rather than run the risk of having your mind maken up for you by some ill-informed, hack of a reviewer...
Beggars belief that a professional reviewer could compare a football management sim to a football sim, completely different ball park. I work in tech support and if I was to give wrong, biased or impartial advice I would be warned or sacked. I am sick to death of EDGe claiming to be the magazine for hardcore gamers, then they make schoolboy errors such as this one.
I miss the good old days of no hype, and faire honest reviews even if it is not a game of your choice.
Football manager 2/10 and Halo always gets overhyped, sounds like a few more brown envelopes will be floating through the postbox of EDGE's directors office soon!
does the game emulate the trials and tribulations presented to the manager of a football team in a detailed and realistic way, rewarding the player if he engages with game and makes informed, successful decisions?
yep.
seems pretty good to me. and i learned everything i know about NFL computer games.
p.s. come on the blues, knockout stages here we come!
Here's that original review, preserved for hilarity.
Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 Review This game gets a red card, and possibly a lifetime ban. by Avi Burk
December 5, 2008 - What sports fan doesn't want to take control of his favorite team and guide it to a championship, or, better yet, a long string of championships? Well, if it means playing Worldwide Soccer Manager, you can count me in that number.
Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 gives gamers the chance to manage and coach 5,000 soccer teams from 50 countries around the globe, giving them the chance to manage every aspect of their team's roster, field questions from reporters at their team's press conferences, and coach their teams in real time as each simulated game unfolds. What it doesn't do, more importantly, is provide any compelling reason to keep "playing."
Although the game's database of more than 350,000 real-life soccer players is certainly impressive, only the most diehard fans of the sport would be able to appreciate having such a massive pool of talent to sift through, and the casual fan would almost certainly find the task overwhelming – I did. This is a game solely intended for hardcore soccer fans.
The game's incredibly complex menu system is very difficult to navigate, even with the on-screen help box directing you through the process. In short, this game is extremely difficult to simply pick up and play. If you're unfamiliar with the franchise expect to spend a significant amount of time simply trying to figure out how to navigate the menus.
Worldwide Soccer Manager's presentation problems don't end there though, once you finally make it to your team's first game you'll find that the player renderings and animations are awful, and the stadiums you play in lack any kind of personality or detail. Each field is bordered by fences and what appear to be unfinished stands, which don't have any fans in them. And, when the ball is kicked off of the pitch, it passes smoothly through the surrounding fences, right through the stands, and disappears from view only to return to the field in the same fashion, appearing magically from the stands and passing through the fences (and goals) on its way back into play.
Then there's the sound, or lack thereof. There is no soundtrack that plays while you work in the game's menus, which you'll spend the vast majority of your time in this game doing. There is no audio narration to accompany your participation in press conferences, even though your options for how to respond to each question is incredibly limited. There is no audio commentary to accompany the action in the simulated game's you watch/coach. In fact, the only sound we found in the entire game was the tones of fans cheering as each simulated game played out – which only detracts from the game's feel of authenticity seeing as there are no fans rendered in the stands. Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009 deserves a bicycle kick into the circular file.
As far as traditional gameplay goes, there really isn't any in Worldwide Soccer Manager 2009. Apart from managing your roster and coaching your team, there really isn't anything to do at all. So, unless you really enjoy clicking on menu buttons, you'll find your interaction with this game extremely disappointing.
However, if you're a big footie fan and big fan of sports simulation, you'll be extremely impressed with the depth of Worldwide Soccer Manager, which allows you to control just about every facet of your team and draw from a player pool that is simply mindboggling.
Closing Comments: This game obviously aims to provide the deepest soccer simulation experience possible for the sport’s most passionate and informed fans, but it offers little to nothing that would appeal to a casual fan of the sport or to the average videogame enthusiast. The menus are complex and difficult to navigate, graphics are terrible, the sound is non-existent and there is no traditional gameplay to speak of. I couldn’t imagine why anybody would prefer Worldwide Soccer Manager to FIFA 09 or Pro Evolution Soccer 2009.
Ratings 4.0 Presentation
Although the menus are extremely involved and tough for beginners to navigate, the game’s depth is amazing. 2.0 Graphics
While I appreciate that the introduction of 3D in-game graphics is a step forward for the franchise, those graphics are simply terrible. 0.5 Sound
The only sound you’ll find in this game is the roar of the non-existent crowd… Absolutely worthless. 4.0 Gameplay
Yes, the depth of management in this game is impressive. But, it’s not impressive enough to make up for the fact that you aren’t actually playing soccer. 2.0 Lasting Appeal
This game is aimed at a very specific audience, and it’s inconceivable to me that anybody outside of that audience could play even an hour of this game before turning it off for good. 2.0 Terrible OVERALL
First things first: I am a big football fan and a big football manager fan, but....
I can see where this reviewer is coming from, its just that he doesnt really express what he means very well and also he might be a bit stupid. Ok so he ignores loads of good stuff about the game and actually criticises it for being too 'deep', and criticises that it has no background music (LOL), but I have lots of gamer friends (english) who would agree with this review, because you really do have to be a big football fan to get ANYTHING out of this game. Isnt the reviewer right in saying that it is very difficult for newbs to get into (even if u love football)? Also, its about time that the game did have proper commentary. Also the graphics, if a set forward, ARE totally rubbish. All valid points, but he just doesnt 'get' the game because he doesnt love football.
So cvg - i dont think that this review is fair and representative, but i also think that it would be wrong to post the UK review on the USA site becausen the review is for a different audience - a country that on the whole is not in love with football. A food critic might give a steak restaurant a great review, but you wouldnt want to see that if you are reading a magazine for vegetarians.
Also I dont think you can compare it with fifa/madden etc because they are much more visceral and immediate. i never follow nfl but i enjoy madden. christ though - i cant think of anything worse than an NFL version of football manager! 2/10 if there is one. definitely
Funny thing....another one of their reviewers got flamed last week for a poor Singstar ABBA review which clearly showed the guy had done no research etc and he had to defend himself - which he did poorly.
First things first: I am a big football fan and a big football manager fan, but....
I can see where this reviewer is coming from, its just that he doesnt really express what he means very well and also he might be a bit stupid. Ok so he ignores loads of good stuff about the game and actually criticises it for being too 'deep', and criticises that it has no background music (LOL), but I have lots of gamer friends (english) who would agree with this review, because you really do have to be a big football fan to get ANYTHING out of this game. Isnt the reviewer right in saying that it is very difficult for newbs to get into (even if u love football)? Also, its about time that the game did have proper commentary. Also the graphics, if a set forward, ARE totally rubbish. All valid points, but he just doesnt 'get' the game because he doesnt love football.
So cvg - i dont think that this review is fair and representative, but i also think that it would be wrong to post the UK review on the USA site becausen the review is for a different audience - a country that on the whole is not in love with football. A food critic might give a steak restaurant a great review, but you wouldnt want to see that if you are reading a magazine for vegetarians.
Also I dont think you can compare it with fifa/madden etc because they are much more visceral and immediate. i never follow nfl but i enjoy madden. christ though - i cant think of anything worse than an NFL version of football manager! 2/10 if there is one. definitely
Im sorry but you've just completley and utterly missed the point.
Yes its true that people who dont like football management would probably agree with this review. But why write it for them? why would they even read it?
It would be like writing a review for Grand Theft Auto 4 for 70 year olds that exclusively play Brain Training.
The game is CLEARLY aimed at people that are huge football fans, and NO ONE else, so reviewing it for the mass market is just totally ridiculous.
Why would Americans be reading a review about a football management game if they werent interested in it? Do you think there are Americans out there that are stupid enough to buy this even if they know absolutley nothing about football?! (Actually, hang on...)
And as for writing a review for a steakhouse aimed at vegetarians, well thats the point, it just wouldnt happen would it? What vegetarian would read a review of a brilliant Steakhouse that got 9.1/10 and suddenly think, 'actually this vegetarianism thing might not be what its cracked up to be.' No one! Why? Because they wouldnt read it in the first place!
There is no point in reviewing a football management game for a mainstream audience. Its aimed at a very specific audience, and if you dont review it on those particular merits then you have failed as a games reviewer.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
, point.
