Sony expects to report an operating loss of $2.9 billion for the financial year ending March 2009.
The prediction comes as the global recession hits demand for electronics and, if accurate, would be the company's first annual operating loss in 14 years.
Sony expects its PlayStation unit to be one of the major casualties, with the division's annual losses expected to increase by a whopping $377 million, or £242 million.
The platform holder said half of the increased loss is down to "the impact of the appreciation of the yen", while the other half "is due to lower-than-expected sales".
For the current financial year the company expects to shift 10 million PS3s, 15 million PSPs and eight million PS2s, plus 250 million games.
The prediction means that overall hardware and software sales are expected to be lower this year than in the past two.
Sony is expected to announce an emergency restructuring plan imminently, with reports suggesting that it'll cut thousands of full-time jobs as part of its efforts to reduce costs.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating its dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
ohhhh you get my first little Bill would be proud award xxxx
so they are going to make a loss the xbox made a loss when it was out for 2 years.i mean it takes time for something like this to start making money.
Time does not appear to be on Sony's side at the moment. If the predictions of some economists turn out to be correct then this recession may last for another two years (2009 is just getting started afterall). Furthermore, the Wii is in no way seriously threatened by either the Xbox360 nor the PS3 so that leaves the Xbox360 which isn't getting any younger meaning that the more time goes by the more likely it seems that MS will up the ante and begin developing a new console if they haven't already started that process. I could be mistaken but it would fit in with historic trends.
The financial crisis is a huge weight around Sony's neck considering the price of it's machine right now. The 'credit crunch' really could not have came at a worse time
And Parma, Marty... at least English_meatus took the focus off the story for a second
ohhh myy this story is sure to get all the little xbots hot and heavy
I love little hot xbots
Dude - change your frikkin' avatar, for the love of god.
pfff marty we all know you like a little bit of man on man action
Speaking from experience, Crimbo?
no its just that marty comes arcoss to me as a bit "camp"
You wouldn't know what to do with a woman if she was lowered onto your face via an intricate pulley system.
defensive
Why should I be defensive? I couldn't care less whether you think I'm gay, camp, a post op transexual, or a metrosexual. I know my sexuality, as does my girlfriend, and that's all I give a stuff about.
Fact remains, when you finally find some poor delluded woman that wants to go to bed with you, feel free to ask for some pointers from me.
That is assuming I still frequent this site in 18 years time.
(Sid James cackles in the background, Kenneth Williams contorts his face in disgust and Bernard Bresslaws jaw drops...)
Hilarious.
\sarcasm
When did you start taking these posts seriously? If you want to talk about games you're better off going to the magazine forums. You'll notice a lot of people posting here don't post there for some reason.
(Sid James cackles in the background, Kenneth Williams contorts his face in disgust and Bernard Bresslaws jaw drops...)
Hilarious.
\sarcasm
When did you start taking these posts seriously? If you want to talk about games you're better off going to the magazine forums. You'll notice a lot of people posting here don't post there for some reason.
Who said anything about taking it seriously?
Besides, we're in a thread about Sony's financial details...what has that got to do with games?
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
eitherway Sony are buggered. The machine still isn't sold at cost yet (so far as i know). So it isn't making money and the people who were going to get it at its current price is pretty much saturated.
In order to get extra sales it really needs a significant price cut (which would lose them even more money per unit based on the system not games obviously)
As MS now is at least square on each 360 sold and Nintendo make money on every wii that they flog. Its looking mighty sticky for Sony.
replying to crimbos comment about the next 360 being a wii clone. If it is Sony would be well and truely f**ked not clear for victory. think about it a little a console with better graphics than the ps3 which would encourage traditional games manufacturers to make games for it and its ease of control would encourage the casual crowd to adopt it.
then again if nintendo brought out a succesor tothe wii that had the current 360s graphical power and aa similar price point. Nintendo would definately continue to dominate the market.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
i doubt we will ever hear about their losses on this site
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
If it is Sony would be well and truely f**ked not clear for victory. think about it a little a console with better graphics than the ps3 which would encourage traditional games manufacturers to make games for it and its ease of control would encourage the casual crowd to adopt it.
What if the casual gamer is no longer interested? What if they've moved on to some other gadget, a VR Iphone for example? The consumer market is littered with second generation gadgets and devices that just didn't appeal to general consumers in the same way the first generation did. Just because Nintendo are safe now don't assume they're always going to be and that large casual market is in anyway loyal to them.
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
Wholeheartedly agree. Which is weird too, as when the Wii was announced everyone, and I mean EVERYONE thought it looked like a joke...
If it is Sony would be well and truely f**ked not clear for victory. think about it a little a console with better graphics than the ps3 which would encourage traditional games manufacturers to make games for it and its ease of control would encourage the casual crowd to adopt it.
What if the casual gamer is no longer interested? What if they've moved on to some other gadget, a VR Iphone for example? The consumer market is littered with second generation gadgets and devices that just didn't appeal to general consumers in the same way the first generation did. Just because Nintendo are safe now don't assume they're always going to be and that large casual market is in anyway loyal to them.
I can actually see Nintendo finally making that 3rd pillar - in the form of a 'proper console'. They've made a rod for their own back with the Wii, and to just drop it and move on to a new console wuld be ridiculously foolish.
Sony need to get more units into homes making a loss doing so but making the money back on sales of software. They need to make the PS3 a viable option for the masses rather than hardcore gamers as it is now
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
Indeed. One rumored bit of news today is that MS may be expecting a 10% decrease in profits for the latest quarter results and that 6,000 to 8,000 workers may be laid off; it's not official yet though last time I checked.
I was under the impression that MS has managed to break even in terms of production costs vs. sales price for the Xbox360, though whether this was before or after the price cuts leading up to Christmas I do not know at present time. As usual with the latest batch of "next gen" consoles the main profit derived from any console doesn't come from the console itself but from the attachment rate in the form of software and gaming paraphernalia. This in part explains why console games are so much more expensive than their PC counterparts since they are used to offset the costs of selling consoles at lower prices.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
i doubt we will ever hear about their losses on this site
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
That doesn't come as a revelation to me, and I agree with you. It is precisely that rationale that has led me to state that I think MS is a better positioned company overall compared to Sony in the current economic recession. Simply put: MS has more fingers in more lucrative pies. It is also why MS has been able to play some of the (very) dirty business tactics that it has in the past (and in the present).
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
Wholeheartedly agree. Which is weird too, as when the Wii was announced everyone, and I mean EVERYONE thought it looked like a joke...
I certainly didn't. I thought it looked like an innovative break from the norm. I love it when companies think outside of the box. When Microsoft announced 360 it was not a surprise in the slightest as I was expecting them to just release a more powerful version of the original xbox. When Sony announced the PS3 I was not surprised as I was also expecting them to release a more powerful version of the PS2. The Wii however was a pleasent break from the norm and I was instantly thinking about how games could be much different on it once developers had got the hang of it. Unfortunately I had underestimated how talentless many large developers had become and we have only seen a small taster of what the wii is capable of. Thankfully these games I had envisioned are now slowly becoming reality.
Also thanks to PSN, Live Community and Wiiware we are getting to see real talent in action from the small independent devs.
If it is Sony would be well and truely f**ked not clear for victory. think about it a little a console with better graphics than the ps3 which would encourage traditional games manufacturers to make games for it and its ease of control would encourage the casual crowd to adopt it.
What if the casual gamer is no longer interested? What if they've moved on to some other gadget, a VR Iphone for example? The consumer market is littered with second generation gadgets and devices that just didn't appeal to general consumers in the same way the first generation did. Just because Nintendo are safe now don't assume they're always going to be and that large casual market is in anyway loyal to them.
I think you're right about Nintendo not being safe, as Sony have seen with the PS3 (and Nintendo themselves with the 64/GC), loyalty only counts for so much in terms of sales if the console doesn't offer what they want.
And I can easily see MS and/or Sony offering motion controllers and games that use them. Actually I think all three will offer that, as ultimately they are all about money and they've seen the business the wii has done. There is no reason why a console can't do the wii stuff (motion controls, basic graphics, cheaper games) as well as HD 'next gen' graphics. You don't have to use all 1080 lines on the TV and all the processing power!
Of course if Nintendo and say MS, went down the casual route it would leave Sony the hardcore audience. Or vice versa. But the hardcore will only be accounted for as long as they are financially viable.
If someone is going to beat Nintendo(in terms of $$), I would think they had better get their console out before them and at a good price. I can never see a games console becoming the ipod of gaming, so to speak. If gaming was a standard platform like music, then fair enough, but games will always differ.
Oh and MS's gaming division may lose money but I very, very much doubt that MS will make a loss. Both are on the stock exchange though, so they have to issue their results.
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
Wholeheartedly agree. Which is weird too, as when the Wii was announced everyone, and I mean EVERYONE thought it looked like a joke...
I certainly didn't. I thought it looked like an innovative break from the norm. I love it when companies think outside of the box. When Microsoft announced 360 it was not a surprise in the slightest as I was expecting them to just release a more powerful version of the original xbox. When Sony announced the PS3 I was not surprised as I was also expecting them to release a more powerful version of the PS2. The Wii however was a pleasent break from the norm and I was instantly thinking about how games could be much different on it once developers had got the hang of it. Unfortunately I had underestimated how talentless many large developers had become and we have only seen a small taster of what the wii is capable of. Thankfully these games I had envisioned are now slowly becoming reality.
Also thanks to PSN, Live Community and Wiiware we are getting to see real talent in action from the small independent devs.
In which case, I apologise for my sweeping statement - however, I still say that MOST people thought it looked like a joke.
We were initially wowed by the possibilities - the thoughts of playing a survival horror game when the Wiimote directs the torch, or a lightsaber duelling game, etc, but none of these have come to fruition, and instead we see weak mini game compilations with tacked on remote waggling, or ports of older PS2 games. With tacked on remote waggling.
This was, in part, down to devs underestimating the success of the Wii - most expected another Gamecube, but a few years on, we STILL haven't been inundated with all these innovative titles we had expected.
And sure, there are a few coming now, but a few is pathetic compared to the number of Wiis sold.
I have a number of thoughts about this, it's direction etc, but I could rant on for pages
why can't any of these console makers drop the prices of the games instead of dropping the price of the console
Because they are what bring in the majority of the money.
yeah but why can't they sell the consoles so they are making a profit and drop the prices of the games
Because if you buy say 30 games (at £50) during the lifespan of the console then they make something like £900 from you but if they made the games £30 then they would need to add £600 to the price of the console which would obviously put most people off purchasing it in the first place.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
Indeed. One rumored bit of news today is that MS may be expecting a 10% decrease in profits for the latest quarter results and that 6,000 to 8,000 workers may be laid off; it's not official yet though last time I checked.
I was under the impression that MS has managed to break even in terms of production costs vs. sales price for the Xbox360, though whether this was before or after the price cuts leading up to Christmas I do not know at present time. As usual with the latest batch of "next gen" consoles the main profit derived from any console doesn't come from the console itself but from the attachment rate in the form of software and gaming paraphernalia. This in part explains why console games are so much more expensive than their PC counterparts since they are used to offset the costs of selling consoles at lower prices.
why can't any of these console makers drop the prices of the games instead of dropping the price of the console
I suspect it's a matter of business savvy tactics. Think about it: Once the console maker has enticed you to buy a console that is primarily intended for one thing, and one thing only, which is gaming what else are you going to do with it if not play games (the PS3 allows for BR playback and here the same principle applies since Sony is the BR pioneer,)? From that point on the customer basically has two main choices: 1) Continue spending money on the console by buying games, or 2) stop spending money on the console which for many will often lead to the console ending up collecting dust on a shelf somewhere. The companies are banking on the bet that for a certain amount of people the thought of letting their initial investment in the console go to waste troubles them and so they spend more money on new games, controllers, headphones, etc. in order to derive some measure of use and satisfaction from the initial purchase. If the console producers also get in to the business of making games then they place themselves in a position where they not only may recuperate their console production losses, but may surpass them in terms of profit earned on games sold (though you would need to include development costs of the games as well to reach more reliable profit figures).
Selling a console at production cost price may dissuade some customers from ever getting involved in gaming market which instantly removes any long term potential profits the companies might stand to make. Selling the console at a loss is essentially their way of attracting the customers with "candy".
P.S. I suppose companies could sell console games at lower prices yet bear in mind that for the companies what matters ultimately is profit. It is not in their perceived interest to have to wait longer to make the same amount of profit that they can make if they keep prices higher and the open market goes along with it. If you could get enough customers to stop buying games at current prices then demand would drop and you might see prices drop as well but that would require a high degree of organization and public awareness.
The people in the company are people like you and I and they may care in one form or another, but the companies as organizational bodies don't care beyond what they perceive as being in their best financial interest. If that means playing nice then so be it; if it means playing hardball then they'll do that too. It has been argued that from a psychological point of view if companies were living individuals they would be classified as psychopaths.
People here need to understand that MS can only bring the price of the 360 so low (not much more than a PS2 in some cases!) because of their success in other areas. If the 360 was a standalone business it would have failed miserably. Neither Sony or MS have brought a successful business plan to the market this generation. Only Nintendo can stand tall in that department.
Wholeheartedly agree. Which is weird too, as when the Wii was announced everyone, and I mean EVERYONE thought it looked like a joke...
I certainly didn't. I thought it looked like an innovative break from the norm. I love it when companies think outside of the box. When Microsoft announced 360 it was not a surprise in the slightest as I was expecting them to just release a more powerful version of the original xbox. When Sony announced the PS3 I was not surprised as I was also expecting them to release a more powerful version of the PS2. The Wii however was a pleasent break from the norm and I was instantly thinking about how games could be much different on it once developers had got the hang of it. Unfortunately I had underestimated how talentless many large developers had become and we have only seen a small taster of what the wii is capable of. Thankfully these games I had envisioned are now slowly becoming reality.
Also thanks to PSN, Live Community and Wiiware we are getting to see real talent in action from the small independent devs.
In which case, I apologise for my sweeping statement - however, I still say that MOST people thought it looked like a joke.
We were initially wowed by the possibilities - the thoughts of playing a survival horror game when the Wiimote directs the torch, or a lightsaber duelling game, etc, but none of these have come to fruition, and instead we see weak mini game compilations with tacked on remote waggling, or ports of older PS2 games. With tacked on remote waggling.
This was, in part, down to devs underestimating the success of the Wii - most expected another Gamecube, but a few years on, we STILL haven't been inundated with all these innovative titles we had expected.
And sure, there are a few coming now, but a few is pathetic compared to the number of Wiis sold.
I have a number of thoughts about this, it's direction etc, but I could rant on for pages
I agree that the wii has not achieved anything close to its potential but this, as I say, is more down to the talentless devs rather than the console itself. They are so used to making generic fps after generic fps that many of them are now stumped when faced with creating an innovative game. You only have to look at the online systems of the 3 consoles to see how the tiny independent devs are generally wiping the floor with the giant ones when it comes to innovation in gameplay. What I have seen on the wii in regards to good use of the controls (RE4+, Galaxy,Metroid, Zack and Wiki, World of Goo etc) have impressed me but I do want more.
why can't any of these console makers drop the prices of the games instead of dropping the price of the console
Because they are what bring in the majority of the money.
yeah but why can't they sell the consoles so they are making a profit and drop the prices of the games
Nintendo have done this to some degree. But it depends on the console, as the power of the the wii means games are cheaper to make and therefore cheaper to sell.
The cost to make a PS3 was something like £750 at first wasn't it? So add on retailer profit, taxes and you're north of £1,000.
Say games got £10 cheaper, you'd have to buy something like 50 games or more to make up that difference.
why can't any of these console makers drop the prices of the games instead of dropping the price of the console
Because they are what bring in the majority of the money.
yeah but why can't they sell the consoles so they are making a profit and drop the prices of the games
Because if you buy say 30 games (at £50) during the lifespan of the console then they make something like £900 from you but if they made the games £30 then they would need to add £600 to the price of the console which would obviously put most people off purchasing it in the first place.
yes but maybe if the games are cheaper you can sell more of them
Very possibly, But then I would be happy with a more tierd system of pricing. I am happy to pay £50 for Fallout 3 as the value is plain to see, but £50 for smaller games seems a bit steep. However you have to remember that those of us that purchase lots of games are in effect subsidising the console for those that purchase only a couple of games.
You must also remember that the game companies are only slightly ahead of the archaic sector that is music and film industries when it comes to business models in the modern age.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
If it is Sony would be well and truely f**ked not clear for victory. think about it a little a console with better graphics than the ps3 which would encourage traditional games manufacturers to make games for it and its ease of control would encourage the casual crowd to adopt it.
What if the casual gamer is no longer interested? What if they've moved on to some other gadget, a VR Iphone for example? The consumer market is littered with second generation gadgets and devices that just didn't appeal to general consumers in the same way the first generation did. Just because Nintendo are safe now don't assume they're always going to be and that large casual market is in anyway loyal to them.
I think you're right about Nintendo not being safe, as Sony have seen with the PS3 (and Nintendo themselves with the 64/GC), loyalty only counts for so much in terms of sales if the console doesn't offer what they want.
And I can easily see MS and/or Sony offering motion controllers and games that use them. Actually I think all three will offer that, as ultimately they are all about money and they've seen the business the wii has done. There is no reason why a console can't do the wii stuff (motion controls, basic graphics, cheaper games) as well as HD 'next gen' graphics. You don't have to use all 1080 lines on the TV and all the processing power!
Of course if Nintendo and say MS, went down the casual route it would leave Sony the hardcore audience. Or vice versa. But the hardcore will only be accounted for as long as they are financially viable.
If someone is going to beat Nintendo(in terms of $$), I would think they had better get their console out before them and at a good price. I can never see a games console becoming the ipod of gaming, so to speak. If gaming was a standard platform like music, then fair enough, but games will always differ.
Oh and MS's gaming division may lose money but I very, very much doubt that MS will make a loss. Both are on the stock exchange though, so they have to issue their results.
My prediction...
By the end of this generation, Nintendo will have made enough money to put out a 'hardcore' console with cutting edge graphics technology for the next two or three generations, and they'd even have enough to cover any 'failures' from those consoles...
Oh and MS's gaming division may lose money but I very, very much doubt that MS will make a loss. Both are on the stock exchange though, so they have to issue their results.
I don't think Microsofts gaming division will make a loss but I also don't think Microsoft have yet got the cash cow they want either.
If you take Sonys total predicted loss $1.5billion dollars, devalue the Yen by 1%, that loss is halved. Drop the value of the Yen by 2% and it's wiped out. Drop the Yen by 3% and it's turned to a profit. I think Sony along with Toyota, Nissan, Toshiba and more than likely Nintendo will be putting extreme pressure on the Japanese government to start printing a few more Yen. Or they'll pull all production out of Japan and move to China.
You only have to look at Sterling (and I don't mean Jeff) to know a 3% decrease in value is more than possible.
Not sure why you all think that Nintendo had the best business plan, that’s clearly not the case. They took a massive gamble, and yes it paid off, but it is not what you would call a good business plan. Since they have adapted their plans to the unexpected success, this is true, but they did not enter this generation with a solid outline, merely a hope and a prayer. Which was answered…
And don’t MS make a miniscule profit off each unit sold now? And the decreased prices are due to the lowered manufacturing costs of the electronics within each one?
And it’s Jeff Stelling, not Sterling. Never get a legends name wrong.
Still think it's all just smoke and mirrors, PS3 fanboys? Spin doctor it all you want but a PS3 success will not come from its supposedly "superior" components. The Wii is a clear example of that, and before someone starts arguing that the Wii "isn't a real console blah de blah", yes it is and it has left both MS and Sony eating it's dust.
Still not convinced that price has a far bigger impact in this type of market and given the current financial times? Then look no further than the much cheaper Xbox360. You will find no disagreement from me that the Xbox360 seems to suffer from some extremely poor quality control issues (ex. RRoD, knowingly ignoring the established fact of the DVD-drive scratching games before launch, etc.) yet its considerably lower price and the ability of the customer to select a customizable Xbox360 version along with an aggressive software release approach has paid off for MS.
Get around to making that price cut, Sony.
I doubt that there are many folk who don't realise that Sony are in troubled times. However, I wouldn't say that MS are out of the scene either. If Nintendo are only making a smallish profit on the Wii, then how can MS be making anything off the 360 at such a low price? I reckon that MS will be showing significant losses as well.
Xbox Live
Yes, I considered that. However, I didn't comment because I am led to believe that MS charge for the service to offset the costs. This is the same reason that Sony developed HOME. In the long-run Sony will earn quite a small fortune from HOME transactions. Therefor, I consider xbox live to be a mute point, though I am sure they profit from the service.
I wouldn't be suprised if Sony pulled the plug on the Playstation, at the end of the day they're a business, and they're not going to keep playstation going if it's losing money for the sake of a few gamers, they want money, simple as that.
Don't get me wrong I don't want Playstation to die, it's good to have a choice of consoles and games.
Not sure why you all think that Nintendo had the best business plan, that’s clearly not the case. They took a massive gamble, and yes it paid off, but it is not what you would call a good business plan. Since they have adapted their plans to the unexpected success, this is true, but they did not enter this generation with a solid outline, merely a hope and a prayer. Which was answered…
You *could* say they took a massive gamble that paid off, true. Or you *could* say that Nintendo examined the market, and made a console that would perform best within that market - and that totally nailed it.
If they did the latter, then they absolutely had (and have) the best business model.
I'd say Nintendo's business plan was a stroke of genius. They looked at the market. saw the hole and filled it.
They took aload of bankrupt stock refurbed it, suped it up a bit and released it as new for a profit.
For good or i'll they deserve some kind of prize for turning gaming on its head.
I think the world is a better place because of the wii.
Considering the dev time of a good traditional game is 2-3 years i wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing a steadier stream of more core games on the wii.
As its already been mentioned when wii the came out many thought it was a joke including devs. The few that didn't have produced some cracking games on it, the rest panicked and chucked out ports. now the dust has a settled a bit it looks like they have started looking at how to make 'proper' games for it.
i like motion controls. if they can perfect them. gaming is going to get a lot more fun and interesting again.
f**k ald style pads we've had them for 23 years. Isn't it time for a bit of a change.
Not sure why you all think that Nintendo had the best business plan, that’s clearly not the case. They took a massive gamble, and yes it paid off, but it is not what you would call a good business plan. Since they have adapted their plans to the unexpected success, this is true, but they did not enter this generation with a solid outline, merely a hope and a prayer. Which was answered…
You *could* say they took a massive gamble that paid off, true. Or you *could* say that Nintendo examined the market, and made a console that would perform best within that market - and that totally nailed it.
If they did the latter, then they absolutely had (and have) the best business model.
Nintendo had already achieved success with the DS, of which I see the Wii as an extension of. They knew exactly what they were doing when they realised that the casual crowd were willing to give games a go if the control system was simple to use. Thus, the wii-mote came to life as an alternative to the touch screen pen.
I wouldn't be suprised if Sony pulled the plug on the Playstation, at the end of the day they're a business, and they're not going to keep playstation going if it's losing money for the sake of a few gamers, they want money, simple as that.
Don't get me wrong I don't want Playstation to die, it's good to have a choice of consoles and games.
I read on gamespot that the cut backs they are making at present are to thier tv amnufacturing operations in japan and the US.
If they did drop Playstation i would be very surprised. However it is safe to same that the brand has taken a hell of a bashing recently.
I suppose companies could sell console games at lower prices yet bear in mind that for the companies what matters ultimately is profit. It is not in their perceived interest to have to wait longer to make the same amount of profit that they can make if they keep prices higher and the open market goes along with it. If you could get enough customers to stop buying games at current prices then demand would drop and you might see prices drop as well but that would require a high degree of organization and public awareness.
The people in the company are people like you and I and they may care in one form or another, but the companies as organizational bodies don't care beyond what they perceive as being in their best financial interest. If that means playing nice then so be it; if it means playing hardball then they'll do that too. It has been argued that from a psychological point of view if companies were living individuals they would be classified as psychopaths.
Very well said. Ultimately, generating profits for stockholders is the only reason that a company exists, and is the basis for all decisions that they make. In fact it's their legal imperative to make money for their share-holders, at the cost of everything else.
The psychological classification of companies as psychopaths comes from 'The Corporation' doesn't it? Excellent book.
Nintendo had already achieved success with the DS, of which I see the Wii as an extension of. They knew exactly what they were doing when they realised that the casual crowd were willing to give games a go if the control system was simple to use. Thus, the wii-mote came to life as an alternative to the touch screen pen.
No luck about it.
Doesn't matter how good Nintendo plan is or was or might have been. Best of luck to them. Yet, if Sony and Microsoft stopped making games consoles tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a Wii. I suspect quite a few other people using this forum wouldn't buy one either. I'd rather go back to spending a fortune upgrading my PC to run games. The casual crowd will only stick with Nintendo until the next gadget comes along.
Oh and MS's gaming division may lose money but I very, very much doubt that MS will make a loss. Both are on the stock exchange though, so they have to issue their results.
I don't think Microsofts gaming division will make a loss but I also don't think Microsoft have yet got the cash cow they want either.
If you take Sonys total predicted loss $1.5billion dollars, devalue the Yen by 1%, that loss is halved. Drop the value of the Yen by 2% and it's wiped out. Drop the Yen by 3% and it's turned to a profit. I think Sony along with Toyota, Nissan, Toshiba and more than likely Nintendo will be putting extreme pressure on the Japanese government to start printing a few more Yen. Or they'll pull all production out of Japan and move to China.
You only have to look at Sterling (and I don't mean Jeff) to know a 3% decrease in value is more than possible.
A rather simplistic view (but this isn't the FT!), but I see you point.
I reckon Sony would still have made a gaming loss (not gambling) this year due to high costs of making the PS3 and the lowest attach rate, but you're right the Japanese companies haven't suddenly gone crap, they're just suffering at the moment from the economic conditions. Each country seems to have their own little problems in addition to the global crisis.
Also gaming has shown it is one of the few industries bucking the economic downturn. As this is all Nintendo do, they will carry on laughing (while all the time reducing the costs of making the wii, yet keeping the RRP the same). Out of Sony/MS, Sony make more 'luxury' items, so it's not a surprise to see them take more of a hit.
Perhaps Sony etc should set up in this country. God knows we could use the exports while the pound is so cheap.
PS I thought is was Sterling too. They always pronounce it Sterling on the news etc as the new Countdown host!
I'd say Nintendo's business plan was a stroke of genius. They looked at the market. saw the hole and filled it.
They took aload of bankrupt stock refurbed it, suped it up a bit and released it as new for a profit.
For good or i'll they deserve some kind of prize for turning gaming on its head.
I think the world is a better place because of the wii.
Considering the dev time of a good traditional game is 2-3 years i wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing a steadier stream of more core games on the wii.
As its already been mentioned when wii the came out many thought it was a joke including devs. The few that didn't have produced some cracking games on it, the rest panicked and chucked out ports. now the dust has a settled a bit it looks like they have started looking at how to make 'proper' games for it.
i like motion controls. if they can perfect them. gaming is going to get a lot more fun and interesting again.
f**k ald style pads we've had them for 23 years. Isn't it time for a bit of a change.
Nintendo had already achieved success with the DS, of which I see the Wii as an extension of. They knew exactly what they were doing when they realised that the casual crowd were willing to give games a go if the control system was simple to use. Thus, the wii-mote came to life as an alternative to the touch screen pen.
No luck about it.
Doesn't matter how good Nintendo plan is or was or might have been. Best of luck to them. Yet, if Sony and Microsoft stopped making games consoles tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a Wii. I suspect quite a few other people using this forum wouldn't buy one either. I'd rather go back to spending a fortune upgrading my PC to run games. The casual crowd will only stick with Nintendo until the next gadget comes along.
if ever there's a time for "it's all about the games" then now is the time for Sony to stand up and be counted. Less 'media hub' talk and just concentrate on the games. Saying that, this years line-up is looking alright. Decent marketing wouldn't hurt either, most PS3 stuff is too leftfield.
Excluding the $1billion RROD right off MS gaming division is in profit. Nintendo is wiping it's ar$e in $100 bills I've heard
I'd say Nintendo's business plan was a stroke of genius. They looked at the market. saw the hole and filled it.
They took aload of bankrupt stock refurbed it, suped it up a bit and released it as new for a profit.
For good or i'll they deserve some kind of prize for turning gaming on its head.
I think the world is a better place because of the wii.
Considering the dev time of a good traditional game is 2-3 years i wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing a steadier stream of more core games on the wii.
As its already been mentioned when wii the came out many thought it was a joke including devs. The few that didn't have produced some cracking games on it, the rest panicked and chucked out ports. now the dust has a settled a bit it looks like they have started looking at how to make 'proper' games for it.
i like motion controls. if they can perfect them. gaming is going to get a lot more fun and interesting again.
f**k ald style pads we've had them for 23 years. Isn't it time for a bit of a change.
What bankrupt stock?
the wii is a refitted Gamecube. Its the reason the BC works so well its the same bloody machine.
I'd say Nintendo's business plan was a stroke of genius. They looked at the market. saw the hole and filled it.
They took aload of bankrupt stock refurbed it, suped it up a bit and released it as new for a profit.
For good or i'll they deserve some kind of prize for turning gaming on its head.
I think the world is a better place because of the wii.
Considering the dev time of a good traditional game is 2-3 years i wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing a steadier stream of more core games on the wii.
As its already been mentioned when wii the came out many thought it was a joke including devs. The few that didn't have produced some cracking games on it, the rest panicked and chucked out ports. now the dust has a settled a bit it looks like they have started looking at how to make 'proper' games for it.
i like motion controls. if they can perfect them. gaming is going to get a lot more fun and interesting again.
f**k ald style pads we've had them for 23 years. Isn't it time for a bit of a change.
What bankrupt stock?
I suspect he's referring to the Gamecubes - it is generally assumed that Wiis are Gamecubes in a different case and a Wiimote.
[Doesn't matter how good Nintendo plan is or was or might have been. Best of luck to them. Yet, if Sony and Microsoft stopped making games consoles tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a Wii. I suspect quite a few other people using this forum wouldn't buy one either. I'd rather go back to spending a fortune upgrading my PC to run games. The casual crowd will only stick with Nintendo until the next gadget comes along.
true. i guess thats what happened with the PS2 then.
Then again if your general ramblings are to be believed then the wii is for kids and women which surveys suggest are incredibly brand loyal. so i guess ninty probably have a cash cow for years.
Also what people fail to realise is that the casual crowd tend to place just as much value if not more on word of mouth and trying things. Most of the people that i know that got a wii did so after playing on one. not because of the ads.
I'd say Nintendo's business plan was a stroke of genius. They looked at the market. saw the hole and filled it.
They took aload of bankrupt stock refurbed it, suped it up a bit and released it as new for a profit.
For good or i'll they deserve some kind of prize for turning gaming on its head.
I think the world is a better place because of the wii.
Considering the dev time of a good traditional game is 2-3 years i wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing a steadier stream of more core games on the wii.
As its already been mentioned when wii the came out many thought it was a joke including devs. The few that didn't have produced some cracking games on it, the rest panicked and chucked out ports. now the dust has a settled a bit it looks like they have started looking at how to make 'proper' games for it.
i like motion controls. if they can perfect them. gaming is going to get a lot more fun and interesting again.
f**k ald style pads we've had them for 23 years. Isn't it time for a bit of a change.
What bankrupt stock?
the wii is a refitted Gamecube. Its the reason the BC works so well its the same bloody machine.
The Wii uses a uprated gamecube chip much like a 3ghz pentium 4 is to a 2ghz pentium 4. They did not just use the gamecube chips! Also the gamecube made Nintendo quite a bit of cash so it was hardly bankrupt stock either. It also has a new gpu wich is also uprated and is capable of more graphical effects etc. Yes it can be made to clock down in order to play gc games but it is certainly not the same machine.
Nintendo had already achieved success with the DS, of which I see the Wii as an extension of. They knew exactly what they were doing when they realised that the casual crowd were willing to give games a go if the control system was simple to use. Thus, the wii-mote came to life as an alternative to the touch screen pen.
No luck about it.
Doesn't matter how good Nintendo plan is or was or might have been. Best of luck to them. Yet, if Sony and Microsoft stopped making games consoles tomorrow I still wouldn't buy a Wii. I suspect quite a few other people using this forum wouldn't buy one either. I'd rather go back to spending a fortune upgrading my PC to run games. The casual crowd will only stick with Nintendo until the next gadget comes along.
It's still really good fun though! And people can complain about the wii (not aimed at you voodoo), but if more people had actually bought a bloody GC, Nintendo probably wouldn't have gone down this route quite so strongly. It was almost their last throw of the dice.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the wii per se (not being a graphics whore), but the lack of good 3rd party games has hurt it (your FIFAs, Assassin's Creed etc, those type of solid, but not amazing releases). Real killer titles are all well and good, but in all honesty you're lucky to get 3/4 a year on any system. And is that enough for any gamer? This wasn't a problem for the wii for the first 18 months.
There probably aren't enough decent games to keep people interested who play for hours and hours a day. Although if wii developers hadn't gone to sleep for the last eight months, possibly this wouldnt be the case.
With no new killer titles out since SSBB in June, I didn't think I'd still be playing my wii. But (due in part to lending to a mate for six months) it's getting as much play as my 360, if not more thanks to online MK!
Not sure why you all think that Nintendo had the best business plan, that’s clearly not the case. They took a massive gamble, and yes it paid off, but it is not what you would call a good business plan. Since they have adapted their plans to the unexpected success, this is true, but they did not enter this generation with a solid outline, merely a hope and a prayer. Which was answered…
You *could* say they took a massive gamble that paid off, true. Or you *could* say that Nintendo examined the market, and made a console that would perform best within that market - and that totally nailed it.
If they did the latter, then they absolutely had (and have) the best business model.
Nintendo had already achieved success with the DS, of which I see the Wii as an extension of. They knew exactly what they were doing when they realised that the casual crowd were willing to give games a go if the control system was simple to use. Thus, the wii-mote came to life as an alternative to the touch screen pen.
No luck about it.
I disagree. There is always an element of luck involved, or if you prefer the elusive "x factor"/chance. That said, doing your homework, being prepared to a certain degree and actively trying to bring about certain outcomes can dramatically increase the chances of success.
I am but wiggling a stick at a flash game doesn't appeal.
As I say then, not a gamer if you write off an entire machine on the basis of painting the whole console with the same turdy brush. There are some great games on the Wii including one of the best games ever made. Now it may not be entirely your cup of tea at the moment much like the PS3 is not that interesting to me currently, but to make a sweeping statement saying that you will never get one even if it was the only console left is proof that you are not a true gamer.
What if the next 10 games were all 10/10 games and hailed as the greatest games in existence? Surely it would then be worth getting?
You will never catch me saying that I will never get a PS3 as if they drop the price and even more great games appear for it then I will certainly be tempted, but for now I am happy enough with the Wii and 360.
What is quite interesting (well not interestng, but it hadn't crossed my mind before) is that Nintendo are the only company whose top brass are actually from the games industry and not just stapled on execs who have fallen into gaming.
Iwata and Miyamoto (Reggie whatever is just another exec for hire) have been in gaming for 25 years or more, yet are the main players in the company moving consoles away from what most people see as traditional gaming.
Anyway, perhaps that shows that gaming knowledge is actually more profitable than general business nous.
What is quite interesting (well not interestng, but it hadn't crossed my mind before) is that Nintendo are the only company whose top brass are actually from the games industry and not just stapled on execs who have fallen into gaming.
Iwata and Miyamoto (Reggie whatever is just another exec for hire) have been in gaming for 25 years or more, yet are the main players in the company moving consoles away from what most people see as traditional gaming.
Anyway, perhaps that shows that gaming knowledge is actually more profitable than general business nous.
Thats a bloody good point.
Whos going toknow the business better than guys that have made some of its most memorable characters.
Although the 4 non traditional games miyamoto just made are a bit different. well wii music and fit rather than sports and play. They are by no means bad games or unenjoyable.
Guys got a gift. He could make wii poo and it'd still be highly entertaining i bet.
As I say then, not a gamer if you write off an entire machine on the basis of painting the whole console with the same turdy brush.
Did I say turdy brush? I don't really care what you think. If I'm not a gamer in your eyes because the Wii doesn't interest me then hard luck. At least I tried it.
As I say then, not a gamer if you write off an entire machine on the basis of painting the whole console with the same turdy brush.
Did I say turdy brush? I don't really care what you think. If I'm not a gamer in your eyes because the Wii doesn't interest me then hard luck. At least I tried it.
obviouslt you do or you wouldn't of replied with such venom.
Then again your console of choice is a media hub, not a games machine. Thats what the man from Sony told me anyway.
Unfortunately for Sony they're in a bit of a pickle. In order to make up lost money they're going to have to get more consoles sold, because with a big enough install base they can make the losses up with game sales. Unfortunately to seriously stimulate PS3 sales they'll have to cut the price of the console, and if the console sells well without moving enough games they'll have lost more money. Throw in the fact that the PS3 is no longer the best blu-ray player on the market for a reasonable price and things aren't looking for the PS division.
Microsoft are making money on 360's now due to lower manufacturing cost's. This leaves room for more price cuts if required. The 360 has the highest attatchment rate of this gens consoles.
"Microsoft posted a profit of $4.17 billion, or 47 cents per share, in its fiscal second quarter ended December 31, versus a profit of $4.71 billion, or 50 cents, a year earlier. Analysts were looking for earnings per share of 49 cents, according to Reuters Estimates." Revenue rose 2 percent to $16.63 billion, missing the average analyst forecast of $17.1 billion. So, Microft look pretty good inspite of the recession.
Nintendo make money on every Wii sold and struggle to meet demand. They are also shift massive amounts of first party games and are making billions of profit.
Sony still lose money, less now than before, on every PS3 sold and as a corporation are losing billions.
So, it really does not matter what console you game on but the future for the three companies concerned differs. Sony appear to be in the biggest trouble and how could Sony turn it around like Microsoft did this time?
Release the PS4 earlier than planned at a reasonable cost and get the jump on both Nintendo and Microsoft. Money talks and it does not matter what any exec says about 10 year life spans, Sony need to turn the boat around and as soon as possible otherwise they could all be out of work.
Like many of you, I have owned the previous 2 playstation consoles and still use the PS2 regularly today and find it sad that the once great manufacturer has slipped from being the market leader.
Why don't I own a PS3? Cost for a games machine, bacause thats what I'll use it for. No backwards compatability. I really think that Sony made a massive mistake by removing this on presently available PS3's especially considering the immense back catalogue of quality titles. No real AAA exclusive games available. Yeah there's some good games like uncharted but where are the big exclusives?
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neither would I !!!!!!!!!!!!
