If Grand Theft Auto IV was the biggest game disc-based release ever, then the first 360-exclusive episode is undoubtedly a contender for the DLC crown.
This ginormous expansion has you walking the streets of Liberty City from a different perspective, that of troubled motorcycle gang VP Johnny Klebitz. Through his twisting, blood-filled campaign you'll visit areas of GTA IV you didn't notice the first time round, and others that have been given a rock-n-roll make-over.
The value you're getting for just over ten quid is outstanding. Despite our doubts, Rockstar's not exaggerating (too) much when it estimates Lost and Damned's main story at "about a third" the length of GTA IV. And that's without considering the expanded multiplayer (read about that here), bike races, San Andreas-style gang wars, air hockey, arm wrestling and hidden seagulls (no pigeons this time).
The plot kicks offer when The Lost Motorcycle Gang's president and Johnny's brother, Billy, is released from rehab to dodge a prison sentence. Johnny's used this time in charge to quell the violence between The Lost and rival gang The Angels of Death. But with Billy out and back in charge, the war is reignited. Oh and all's not well between The Lost brothers...
Cut-scenes, as usual, are incredible. After years working on GTA IV's masterful narrative Rockstar's become a master of the art form. At points we actually preferred Lost and Damned's grittier, back-stabbing tale of a family imploding in on itself than the original Niko storyline.
It's a darker, ballsier plot that somehow manages to feel fresh even after the controversies surrounding previous GTAs. It's like the darkest bits of The Sopranos and Godfather stuck in a blender and paced over several hours.
You'll see enemies smashed in the face with sledgehammers, friends shot in the back and the first polygonal cock and balls we can ever remember seeing in a game.
Thanks to a new 'fight hardened' gang stats system, you actually care whether your AI team mates live or die. You activate the stat screen with d-pad down, which displays a line of bar graphs indicating the 'hardness' of your crew.
If you make sure your buddies survive a gunfight by assisting and saving their arses, they'll become better shots and generally less rubbish. You can also boost their abilities by initiating conversation during bike convoy sequences, which reward you for staying inside a Lost emblem projected on the road with a health boost and dialogue.
The team dynamic is at its most useful when you start picking up the phone and calling your Lost brethren for assistance and backup. Getting on the blower to biker buddies Terry or Clay will have them deliver weapons, bikes or even assist you. Your Lost mates can and will save your arse on numerous occasions, which adds to the whole gang feel.
The main plot is the usual mix of balls-to-the-wall scuffles, bike chases and visits to individuals who've managed to piss off The Lost management. But alongside the meaner plot comes a roster of colder mission objectives, and most of your time in the Lost will be spent acting revenge on the killers of your friends and gunning down those inside the gang who decide to turn on their brothers.
One mission has you meeting our mate Belic in a museum to conduct a diamond sell that goes wrong. You may remember this one from GTA IV - and it's a similar set-up - but experiencing the flop and resulting gun fight from Johnny's perspective, with the old protagonist shouting and swearing by your side, is a particular thrill and builds on the original games foundation.
Another, more clever mission has you kidnapping cousin Roman to deliver him to the Russians, where Niko later rescues the blubbering taxi boss in the original game. It's not all crossovers though; familiar but still enjoyable highlights include a police pursuit on the back or a motorbike with a massive gun, and a ruthless attack on an Angels' clubhouse, grenade launcher included.
The story is complimented by the very welcome addition of mid-mission checkpoints, which manage to skip out repetitive retries of long and difficult shootouts - even if some of the difficulty is sacrificed in the process.
Ultimately the 25 or so story missions fall short of the highs of GTA IV's brilliant Four Leaf Clover, and Rockstar's still to shake off the 'kill these, chases this, loose the cops' formula, but what's there is entertaining, consistently action-packed and brilliantly paced.
What's really special about Lost and Damned though - excluding the terrific amount of value you're getting for 13 quid - is that even after lord knows how many hours arsing about in the game world, its still able to surprise and deliver some really standout, non-scripted gameplay moments.
The sheer amount of content lavished on the context sensitive banter in Liberty City is still staggering. Characters react and behave in the world as you'd expect them to in real life. Phone a Lost brother for assistance and Johnny won't just bark out a street, he'll explain he's about to bust a traitorous colleague's house, and he needs some help sneaking through the backdoor.
Fresh satire leaks from every pedestrian, radio station and television in the city. An advert for the Bank of liberty proclaims "thanks for the bailout America," and mention's constantly made of the deep recession the country's got itself in.
Content-wise there's plenty of potential to extend the sandbox fun; the highlight of Lost and Damned's new guns, which includes an auto-shotgun, pipe bombs and burst pistol, is the grenade launcher. It's a big, noisy bastard of a weapon that's also a great physics fun toy and we can see it alone adding a few hours to the ADD sufferers' never-ending war against the LCPD.
It's been a difficult task judging the Lost and Damned because really, there's no DLC package like it. The production, scope and sheer amount of content is equal to some full releases and Rockstar could've easily put it in a box and sold it for 20 quid. But it's not on the shelves and it's not more than fifteen quid, which makes it a terrific bargain.
Lost and Damned isn't a reinvention of GTA IV and nor does it bring anything terribly original to the mission formula. The first episode should thus be viewed as another greatly entertaining story in the vast and under-explored world of Liberty City, with some welcome team features and multiplayer content worth every penny paid.
Lost and Damned has set the standard for all DLC packages to come. We only expect more from the next portion of GTA DLC.
Looking really really good as usual R*. I know that a lot of people didnt like the mature themes of GTA IV and wanted that carefree off the wall nonsense to be more prevalent but Ive grown up since playing GTA back in the day and so it seems have R*. Something that I couldnt be happier about .
It's £13.99 btw. Anyway, I can't wait! The heavens have smiled upon me this week, as DFS are going to deliver my new sofa on wednesday, so I had to take the day off. New sofa+Lost & Damned =
even if microsoft lost that money getting the dlc it woouldn't take them long to get the money back i have heard that microsoft makes something like $358 million every 12 hours
even if microsoft lost that money getting the dlc it woouldn't take them long to get the money back i have heard that microsoft makes something like $358 million every 12 hours
No they don't. They actually posted quite a big loss in some divisions last year, and are in the process of making 5000 people redundant and tightening the purse strings. Not a happy time to be a software developer at the moment...
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Why don't you let him borrow your 360?
That would mean buying another copy of the 360 version of GTA4 (I traded mine in months ago) and also buying the DLC. Pretty expensive proposition, but I see where you are coming from. Still, why should he have to do that? He has collected most of the trophies on the PS3 version and would probably rather do the same for the DLC. 'Aint gonna happen. Though if he was willing to foot the bill, it would be fine by me.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Stop whining and be happy that its good s**t face, maybe sony just shouldnt be so tight
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Stop whining and be happy that its good s**t face, maybe sony just shouldnt be so tight
Why the insults? Do you feel smart calling him that? Are you a Cardiff fan?
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Stop whining and be happy that its good s**t face, maybe sony just shouldnt be so tight
Only MS could afford 50 mil for DLC, jizz mush.
And look at it this way (when you've wiped your face), R* could be working on GTA5 right now, rather than this (admittedly great looking) DLC.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
Stop whining and be happy that its good s**t face, maybe sony just shouldnt be so tight
Why the insults? Do you feel smart calling him that? Are you a Cardiff fan?
Sometimes I wish I had another hobby, such as birdwatching or trainspotting. Less teenage angst to deal with.
I think mummy has told him to turn the 360 off because it's bedtime. Poor blighter.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
I`m intrigued by the game but i refuse to DL until rockstar give us a full setlist as to what the new songs are as if it`s only sepultura who`ve signed up then count me out,although i think i heard some crue in the background to the trailer they released the other day ,anyone elese hear it?
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more.
You're absolutely wrong with that one unless your 3 to 1 ratio is different to mine.
GTA4 sold 5.8 million units on the PS3 and 6.7 million units on the 360. That's not a 3 to 1 difference in my books. It did sell almost on a 3 to 1 ratio in the states where shockingly, the 360 has outsold the PS3 by almost an identical ratio. GTA4 sold very strongly for the PS3 in Europe and did surprisely well in Japan where it was published by Capcom just before Christmas. If you go onto any NPD disclosing web site you can find the figures for yourself.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more.
You're absolutely wrong with that one unless your 3 to 1 ratio is different to mine.
GTA4 sold 5.8 million units on the PS3 and 6.7 million units on the 360. That's not a 3 to 1 difference in my books. It did sell almost on a 3 to 1 ratio in the states where shockingly, the 360 has outsold the PS3 by almost an identical ratio. GTA4 sold very strongly for the PS3 in Europe and did surprisely well in Japan where it was published by Capcom just before Christmas. If you go onto any NPD disclosing web site you can find the figures for yourself.
I have been searching for a while now and can't seem to get the figures you've posted. Could you provide a link please? All I've found so far is sales for December 08' that are 3.29 million for 360 and 1.89 for PS3. Whether these were world wide or not I don't know. And then on VG Chartz they have a total sales of 6.8 million world wide or something close to it. I know VG chartz aren't that accurate, but this is all I could seem to find.
Nevermind, I found it. I must have been going off of US sales only. Time to cancel that parade.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more.
You're absolutely wrong with that one unless your 3 to 1 ratio is different to mine.
GTA4 sold 5.8 million units on the PS3 and 6.7 million units on the 360. That's not a 3 to 1 difference in my books. It did sell almost on a 3 to 1 ratio in the states where shockingly, the 360 has outsold the PS3 by almost an identical ratio. GTA4 sold very strongly for the PS3 in Europe and did surprisely well in Japan where it was published by Capcom just before Christmas. If you go onto any NPD disclosing web site you can find the figures for yourself.
I have been searching for a while now and can't seem to get the figures you've posted. Could you provide a link please? All I've found so far is sales for December 08' that are 3.29 million for 360 and 1.89 for PS3. Whether these were world wide or not I don't know. And then on VG Chartz they have a total sales of 6.8 million world wide or something close to it. I know VG chartz aren't that accurate, but this is all I could seem to find.
Nevermind, I found it. I must have been going off of US sales only. Time to cancel that parade.
If I were you, I would concentrate more on enjoying this new download, than worrying about how many units were sold on each console. Does it really matter?
If each gamer had the same things to look forward to, then we wouldn't have to put up with this pointless banter all the time.
Honestly, the hate shown to individuals on these sites, just because they prefer a different console is crazy.
im 360 user and even i find a bit s**tty that PS3 users dont get to play this too. whats the big deal about it being on both? once you've paid your 35+ quid for GTAIV why should you then not be able to play on because of your console choice? s**tty way if treating the very people who keep the games companies in sweets and red bull. having said that im gonna risk an almighty tear up with the missus later as im kaning it round liberty city on a chopper blowing the s**t out of everything rather than takin her out. oh yeah.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
I agree completely with the sentiment Mark. For those of us that have only one or the other console, to see the other one getting exclusive content is disheartening, to say the least. You feel like you've bought a second class citizen of game.
However, I would actually extend this to exclusives in general. I don't want to HAVE to buy a PS3 for purely a handful of exclusives that interest me, and I'm sure PS3 owners don't want to HAVE purchase a 360 for the same reason.
It's a bug bear of mine, and the main reason I'm behind the single format idea... The PC doesn't have 'Pentium 4 exclusive' games, eh?
And I see daily isn't even trying to disguise his 'crimbo'-ness...
i am afraid i don't know what you are talking about i am new here
Yes, yes. Let's see... Made yesterday, shortly after crimbos banning. Lower case user name. Calls people 'xbots'. Describes Xbox avatars as Miis. Gets overly excited at any PS3 news and think that it will 'blow the Xbox out of the water'. Protests too much.
i am afraid i don't know what you are talking about i am new here
Yes, yes. Let's see... Made yesterday, shortly after crimbos banning. Lower case user name. Calls people 'xbots'. Describes Xbox avatars as Miis. Gets overly excited at any PS3 news and think that it will 'blow the Xbox out of the water'. Protests too much.
Yeah, you're clearly a different person
it makes no difference to me if you don't think i am a new person because i know i am a new person
i am afraid i don't know what you are talking about i am new here
Yes, yes. Let's see... Made yesterday, shortly after crimbos banning. Lower case user name. Calls people 'xbots'. Describes Xbox avatars as Miis. Gets overly excited at any PS3 news and think that it will 'blow the Xbox out of the water'. Protests too much.
Yeah, you're clearly a different person
it makes no difference to me if you don't think i am a new person because i know i am a new person
Shall we get Gav to check your IP address?
They do say that when one dies, another one is born.
i am afraid i don't know what you are talking about i am new here
Yes, yes. Let's see... Made yesterday, shortly after crimbos banning. Lower case user name. Calls people 'xbots'. Describes Xbox avatars as Miis. Gets overly excited at any PS3 news and think that it will 'blow the Xbox out of the water'. Protests too much.
Yeah, you're clearly a different person
it makes no difference to me if you don't think i am a new person because i know i am a new person
Shall we get Gav to check your IP address?
no he does not need to
What are your thoughts on Gav, daily? - just so we can be sure that you're not crimbo....
I'm so tempted to go out at lunch and buy some Billy Points for this...sounds friggin' awesome.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more.
You're absolutely wrong with that one unless your 3 to 1 ratio is different to mine.
GTA4 sold 5.8 million units on the PS3 and 6.7 million units on the 360. That's not a 3 to 1 difference in my books. It did sell almost on a 3 to 1 ratio in the states where shockingly, the 360 has outsold the PS3 by almost an identical ratio. GTA4 sold very strongly for the PS3 in Europe and did surprisely well in Japan where it was published by Capcom just before Christmas. If you go onto any NPD disclosing web site you can find the figures for yourself.
I have been searching for a while now and can't seem to get the figures you've posted. Could you provide a link please? All I've found so far is sales for December 08' that are 3.29 million for 360 and 1.89 for PS3. Whether these were world wide or not I don't know. And then on VG Chartz they have a total sales of 6.8 million world wide or something close to it. I know VG chartz aren't that accurate, but this is all I could seem to find.
Nevermind, I found it. I must have been going off of US sales only. Time to cancel that parade.
If I were you, I would concentrate more on enjoying this new download, than worrying about how many units were sold on each console. Does it really matter?
If each gamer had the same things to look forward to, then we wouldn't have to put up with this pointless banter all the time.
Honestly, the hate shown to individuals on these sites, just because they prefer a different console is crazy.
Not a dig at you, btw.
That would be wonderful, but unfortunately that is how things are. I'd love to be able to play several of the exclusives on the PS3. But I can't, unless I ran out and bought the system. I can't justify spending that much on gaming right now in these times of financial crisis. I just see this dlc as an exclusive, just as KZ2 or better yet MGS4 is an exclusive. I also don't see what would keep a fan of the series with a 360 from getting the dlc. The game can be bought new or used now for cheap, and with it you can get TL&D and the second episode as well. So I jumped to conclusions and I appologize.
Problem I have is purely time - I'm not sure I'd get much of a chance to play it over the next couple of weeks.
I have mates come over every Tuesday for 'band practice' Finally got the million fan achievement last week. Wicked.
Incidentally - where do you tend to get your points from?...know of any good deals at the moment?
I know I shouldn't, but I tend to buy mine in 500s or 1000s, and they are therefore the same price all over - so I just buy them from the dashboard. You can get them cheaper if you buy a couple of thousand though.
That's unfortunate...mine's nicely sitting in with the other games - I can definitely see it getting a whirl in the 360 drive soon though!
Were it not for Fallout 3 I'd be asking him to send it back to me
I made an innocent little joke about them having a little bit of sexual tension between them and I got absolutley destroyed for it!
you do know Shmuppet sent me a Valentines card?
Oh yes, heres one verse
Roses are red Violets are blue I almost love my 360 As much as I love you
It's all little kisses and hearts as well. Kinda cute.
Ha! Ha! I knew it!
I bet he doesnt even have an Xbox, just any excuse to talk to you!
Just been on Lost and Damned by the way and it is really superb.
Its wierd cos you know you are in the same city as before, but it just seems different. I dont know if they have added quite alot, but it feels like they have.
The dialouge in GTA games is still streets ahead of anything else.
Problem is that because I know its gonna be fairly short I sort of dont want to play it. I dont want it to end.
I made an innocent little joke about them having a little bit of sexual tension between them and I got absolutley destroyed for it!
you do know Shmuppet sent me a Valentines card?
Oh yes, heres one verse
Roses are red Violets are blue I almost love my 360 As much as I love you
It's all little kisses and hearts as well. Kinda cute.
Ha! Ha! I knew it!
I bet he doesnt even have an Xbox, just any excuse to talk to you!
Just been on Lost and Damned by the way and it is really superb.
Its wierd cos you know you are in the same city as before, but it just seems different. I dont know if they have added quite alot, but it feels like they have.
The dialouge in GTA games is still streets ahead of anything else.
Problem is that because I know its gonna be fairly short I sort of dont want to play it. I dont want it to end.
I know what you mean by wanting to make it last longer! Look at it this way; At least it's short enough for multiple playthroughs, I've had the original since launch and I've only gone through it twice.
My downloads finished now, problem is I'm still at work till half 4 At least I have tomorrow off anyhow.
Yeah, I shouldnt complain to be honest cos its apparently about 10 hours long.
Thats longer than most full price games are these days.
I am very scepticle about the ten hours thing though. they said it would be a third as big as the main story, so most people said the main story was 30 hours so this would be ten.
Personally though, I completed the main story in just under 20 hours, so Im really expecting this to be somewhere between 6 and 8 hours long.
Still, its good so far. You've got plenty to look forward to. There is A LOT of swearing!
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
all the people moaning about this DLC only going to the 360, money talks. Sony should know that better than anyone. Back in the dreamcast days sony did their best using bullying tactics, INCLUDING buying 3rd party exclusivity onto the playstation. it was easy pick on a company like SEGA whos wallet had a huge dent in it.
Unfortunetly for Sony, what goes around, comes around and here we are 10 years on. Theres always someone bigger, badder, and with more money in the bank. So i say ha-bloody-ha to Sony. Absolutely brilliant!!
I'm loving this so far, just had my first Road Rash type race and then got a text message of one of the others racers saying "Was that you that smacked me, s**t thanks a lot" made me laugh quite a bit, it's good to see R* have injected a bit of humour into this unlike the main story line.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
Yes, sorry about earlier. No hard feelings.
Wow, it's enough to make a grown man cry. A bit of humility on this site is a rare thing indeed.
I know that apology was aimed at Voodoo, but Kudos anyway.
As for the game itself, I imagine it is well worth a 90% as you are basically getting a full game for half the price. My only gripe was that not everybody who payed for the full game can play this DLC. Absolutely crazy and just plain wrong, as we all payed the same money for it in the first place.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
Yes, sorry about earlier. No hard feelings.
Wow, it's enough to make a grown man cry. A bit of humility on this site is a rare thing indeed.
I know that apology was aimed at Voodoo, but Kudos anyway.
As for the game itself, I imagine it is well worth a 90% as you are basically getting a full game for half the price. My only gripe was that not everybody who payed for the full game can play this DLC. Absolutely crazy and just plain wrong, as we all payed the same money for it in the first place.
R* should be ashamed.
It was actually aimed at you, I didn't accuse voodoo of anything. But I was a bit rude to you and once more, I apologize.
I don't think R* should be ashamed, I don't think they really wanted things to turn out like this. I just think they were in a tough spot financially and needed funding for this project. So they had to go and ask Sony and MS and in return they had to agree to certain terms and conditions. Had it not been the case and R* had plenty of money to fund their own project then this dlc would be multi platform. I've no doubt about it.
the machine guns on the police helicopters are loads more powerful. i'm not sure if this happened just in this dlc but if so it's worth half the price alone for me :0)
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
the machine guns on the police helicopters are loads more powerful. i'm not sure if this happened just in this dlc but if so it's worth half the price alone for me :0)
They are. I just got nailed in team deathmatch over and over by a swarm of the bastards!
Spent yesterday playing L&D. So far its awesome. It's bizaare, you know its an add on but it feels like a completely new game. I definately agree that R* could of stuck it on a disc and sold it retail.
To all the PS3 owners a little sour about it being exclusive. I'd be really surprised if R* didn't make something else for the PS3 version or eventually release non exclusive dlc that will come to it as well.
IF you want to get angry get p**sed at Sony. If i remember rightly GTA IV was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive but Sony said they weren't interested.
Sounds great and a real shining light for GTA4 fans.
Personally, I think that this stark segregation of console exclusive DLC is beginning to ruin gaming for the masses. I personally wouldn't buy the expansion because it doesn't overly interest me at this time - though it could do in the future. However, my brother will be gutted he can't play the expansion, yet he won't buy a 360 just to play some DLC of a game he has completed on the PS3.
I just don't see the point in this exclusive DLC as I don't believe it has given the 360 an advantage in sales of GTA4 or improved the sales of the console as such. All it has achieved is bragging rights for 360 fans. And I am sure that a lot of GTA4 PS3 owners (though they may not admit it) will be disappointed that they can't play this new story.
Still, at least some can enjoy it. Pity it isn't all.
It did give the 360 advantage in sales. GTA4 for 360 outsold the PS3 version 3 to 1, maybe even more. Yes, the 360 has a larger install base but it isn't 3 times larger. The announcement of the dlc long ago actually pushed me into finally picking up a 360. And even now, there are some other boards I frequent where a small handful of people have picked up 360's just for this DLC. Not to mention that before GTA4, the GTA franchise was heavily associated with the playstation brand and that has been mostly changed now.
And you can complain about this move all you like but it is no different than Sony having LCS and VCS exclusively. I also some how doubt you actually own a 360. If you did then you wouldn't be so down in the dumps over this dlc. Even if you had to repurchase the game, you can find it incredibly cheap now and there is still one more episodic dlc to come.
he owns a 360 and ill stake my life on it as hes on my friends list...... parade p**sed on????
Oh yes, that completely ruins everything. Like the points I made about how MS paying for the DLC was indeed a good business move already. Or that the same thing has been done before with VCS and LCS for Sony. But no, because he actually owns an Xbox that has all been cancelled out and I must now call off my "parade". You really put me in my place there.
i should have been more clear, i was only actually referring to you accusing him of not having a 360 because its clear mark prefers his ps3, i prefer my 360 for your information before i get accused of taking sonys side or something equally as daft, it just annoys me when some people on this board throw wild accusations, like people of not owning a console because someone else dares criticise or dare to point things out about someone elses choice of preferred console. you can actually own all the consoles and point bad things out about each of them you know. no hard feelings - *extends hand*
Yes, sorry about earlier. No hard feelings.
Wow, it's enough to make a grown man cry. A bit of humility on this site is a rare thing indeed.
I know that apology was aimed at Voodoo, but Kudos anyway.
As for the game itself, I imagine it is well worth a 90% as you are basically getting a full game for half the price. My only gripe was that not everybody who payed for the full game can play this DLC. Absolutely crazy and just plain wrong, as we all payed the same money for it in the first place.
R* should be ashamed.
It was actually aimed at you, I didn't accuse voodoo of anything. But I was a bit rude to you and once more, I apologize.
I don't think R* should be ashamed, I don't think they really wanted things to turn out like this. I just think they were in a tough spot financially and needed funding for this project. So they had to go and ask Sony and MS and in return they had to agree to certain terms and conditions. Had it not been the case and R* had plenty of money to fund their own project then this dlc would be multi platform. I've no doubt about it.
No worries, matey. And you're probably right. Unfortunately for PS3 fans, Sony are not renowned for paying extra for things, especially this gen.
Like another poster said, maybe R* will release some multi-platform dlc in the future, though I'd personally rather have them concentrate on GTA5.
IF you want to get angry get p**sed at Sony. If i remember rightly GTA IV was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive but Sony said they weren't interested.
can you prove that claim with a link to some facts showing it?
MS has paid big for this...But I bet Rockstar are kicking themselves knowing that SO many of those PS3 users would have bought this DLC, suddenly the 50mil MS coughed up doesn't seem so good does it?
I'm unbiased though, I've got PS3 + 360, and I will eventually enjoy the DLC on 360, but it is a shame.
1. For the players that wont get a chance to play the new DLC, or at least not for the next year when it is DLC, I'm sure it wont stretch to 'disc based' content, then R* can get their PS3 players.
2. Assuming the second part of point 1 doesn't come true, it was a bad business decision on R*s part. They are a great producer with evidently high production values.
MS has paid big for this...But I bet Rockstar are kicking themselves knowing that SO many of those PS3 users would have bought this DLC, suddenly the 50mil MS coughed up doesn't seem so good does it?
I'm unbiased though, I've got PS3 + 360, and I will eventually enjoy the DLC on 360, but it is a shame.
1. For the players that wont get a chance to play the new DLC, or at least not for the next year when it is DLC, I'm sure it wont stretch to 'disc based' content, then R* can get their PS3 players.
2. Assuming the second part of point 1 doesn't come true, it was a bad business decision on R*s part. They are a great producer with evidently high production values.
Was it $50m or £50m? It all comes down to how much R* get per download I suppose. If they got $10 (50%) they would need 5m downloads, isn't that about half of combined PS3 and 360 GTA4 sales.
I don't think Rockstar will be worrying too much about the decision. It was money in the bank in an uncertain financial climate after all.
Then there's the thing that was the $50m an advance or a 'we'll give you $50m but we get all the money from downloads' situation? I guess we'll know when we see the ratio of DLC to GTA4 on the 360.
Oh and there were rumours about PS3 exclusivity for GTAIV, but as with all these things, we'll never know exactly what the score was. But previous GTA's were exclusive when Sony was the dominant platform, I reckon Sony would have had to stump up one hell of a payment to compensate R* for 5m+ missed sales.
While googling this quickly, I found a story that said all R* releases after GTA would be PS3 exclusive - yeah right!!
Thats quite an old story. It was before it became clear that the PS3 was never going to be the top player this gen. They've since pledged more support to Nintendo and MS stumped up to get the Dlc rights to GTA IV something sony haven't been doing not just for GTA but Fallout 3's, and tomb raiders Dlc will also be MS exclusive.
Its good business for MS as it should of swung some people to by the 360/PC versions of the games rather than the PS3 one.
As for the devs i'm sure they have been addequetly compensated. You've got to speculate to accumulate.
Thats quite an old story. It was before it became clear that the PS3 was never going to be the top player this gen. They've since pledged more support to Nintendo and MS stumped up to get the Dlc rights to GTA IV something sony haven't been doing not just for GTA but Fallout 3's, and tomb raiders Dlc will also be MS exclusive.
Its good business for MS as it should of swung some people to by the 360/PC versions of the games rather than the PS3 one.
As for the devs i'm sure they have been addequetly compensated. You've got to speculate to accumulate.
so you can't back up your claim ?
If i remember rightly GTA IV was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive but Sony said they weren't interested.
Loving the DLC! I think Rockstar nailed the impression of Johnny being a LC native, and an experienced bike rider. I've played for just over ten hours now and have only completed 51%. Gameplay-wise, it's much improved. Side-missions are tighter and more focussed, you're not forced to phone your friends and the bike mechanics are great.
Minor gripes. The Npc's aren't as good as the ones in Niko's adventure and Johnny has a pretty bland personality too.
All in all a great package and a demonstration of how dlc should be done. Roll on dlc package 2!
well im a man of princeple and i have both 360 and Ps3 and just cant get my head around playing gta on a xbow its sacrialage to me. And i dont like the idea of microsoft paying money to stop other people playing a game which they had first ps1 ps2 ps3? so they can shove there downloadable content were the sun dont shine. halo wars killzone 2 yes pls
well im a man of princeple and i have both 360 and Ps3 and just cant get my head around playing gta on a xbow its sacrialage to me. And i dont like the idea of microsoft paying money to stop other people playing a game which they had first ps1 ps2 ps3? so they can shove there downloadable content were the sun dont shine. halo wars killzone 2 yes pls
Jesus this review is crap. "Kill these, chases this, loose the cops"?! "Chases this"! WTF? How can Andy Robinson not know the difference between singular and plural? For God's sake, just say, "Kill, chase and escape formula."
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
Great value
.
halo wars killzone 2 yes pls
