Killzone 2, Metal Gear Solid 4 and LittleBigPlanet usually lead discussions of big PS3 exclusives. But Naughty Dog has truly stepped up to the marker with this stunning third-person adventure.
From the very first scene, Uncharted 2 shows off a technical prowess and refined artistic composition that's above everything you've ever seen. The locations, set pieces, camera angles and lifelike animation; it takes everything you'd expect from a third-person adventure and does it better. This is how you make a game.
The opening scene underlines this. No boring tutorial, no slow start before the big bang and no long intro cinematic. Drake appears, clinging for dear life on to the rail of a train carriage that's hanging dangerously over the edge of a snowy cliff. The camera, positioned below looking upwards, gives you a clear view as the train edges precariously closer to the cliff's edge.
In the middle of all this tension the game cuts back and forth to flashbacks of the discussion that got you into this mess; Drake having joined new female character Chloe on a quest to find Marco Polo's lost fleet of treasure-filled ships.
Back to icy reality and you begin the climb to safety. Instantly you see Drake come to life; hands and feet animate perfectly as he carefully grips different parts of the train. You can hear the strain in his voice as he leaps fearlessly from a ledge to a pole hanging in mid air.
Drake swears in frustration as parts of the train break off and narrowly miss him. He yelps as rails snap away from the train and swing outwards as the camera pans out to give you a frightening look at the sheer drop below.
Uncharted 2
Official trailer
1:14Teaser trailer 2
Uncharted 2
Official trailer
1:14Teaser trailer 2
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The jaw-dropping visuals totally compliment the experience. You wouldn't identify with Drake's plight nearly as much if he wasn't so lifelike. His interaction and reaction to scenery and situations is phenomenal.
He grips surfaces and objects like they're real. He covers his face with his hands when near fire and twitches when shot at. He goes from calm expression to intense frown as enemies close in. You can even see the concern in his eyes when he's being out-gunned.
And what a difference some clever camera work can make. When you walk out into a new environment the camera pans right out to show you the stunning view; a huge cave full of ancient statues, the top of a snowy mountain or the rooftop of a building in a densely detailed city. It's all gorgeous.
Sometimes it's so well done that you think it's a cutscene, only realising that it's gameplay when you notice Drake standing still, awaiting your control. For in-game cinematics, it's unparalleled. Slightly better, even, than Metal Gear Solid 4.
But U2 isn't just a PS3 tech demo. The first game played superbly and the sequel builds on that foundation. It sticks with the same cover-based combat mechanics but builds on them with stealth sections.
We remember the hoo-ha forumites caused when Naughty Dog first spoke of U2's new stealth focus. Critics will be silenced. The stealth in U2 is some of the most natural in any game and it feels completely unforced.
You'll walk into an ancient monastery full of guards but it's the start of a mission and you have no weapons. Brilliant level design usually means you have a good view of the situation, so you can wait 30 seconds and survey the guards' movements.
Silent takedowns are far easier now. Just tap X when near an unsuspecting enemy and he gets it. These takedowns are great because they're reactive to scenery and character positioning. Drake will intelligently pull enemies over walls and elbow them in the throat, push them over cliffs, slam their heads into walls, or snap their necks depending on the situation. All you have to do is press a button.
After you take out the first guy you have a gun. From there you can just blaze in Gears of War-style. We even reckon the cover system works smoother than Epic's. One point to mention is that grenade throwing is now done entirely with buttons and not rubbish Sixaxis tilt control.
The open set pieces are designed in such a way that you can spend ten minutes sneaking into different parts of any given area. There are even 'Ninja' trophies to be earned for this approach.
While the stealth mechanics are new, the climbing sections of the game will feel similar to the original. But while the same rock-climbing, rope-swinging fun is back, U2 keeps it fresh and exciting with a range of truly spectacular environments.
When you're not hanging over cliff faces, you're scrambling along the side of speeding trains, leaping to grab small poles high over a city street or working your way through Indiana Jones-style temples.
On a negative point - and there clearly aren't many in this game so let's get this out there - it's not always obvious which ledge, rock or incline you have to climb next. On multiple occasions you're thrown into a massive open cave or urban environment full of climbable-looking detail and have to find the ONE ledge that you can actually grab onto to continue the game. It's not always obvious. That's perhaps one downfall of having such detailed environments.
But the game redeems itself with a hint system that detects when you're wandering around like a noddy. With a tap of the d-pad it points you in the right direction. Naughty Dog missed nothing.
The game has plenty of action to break up the familiar climbing sections too - sprinting over crumbling bridges, being chased by missile-firing helicopters or running into the screen as a truck crashes towards you. It's proper edge-of-your-seat stuff. And Drake'll do the swearing for you.
All this is coupled with an incredible soundtrack that's a mix of ancient-style wind instruments and traditional far eastern tones. It's reactive to the on-screen action too, genuinely throwing your emotions around like you're a woman. It incites panic when things get hairy, or has you in awe when you walk out into a huge open vista.
Drake and his world are made even more believable by the brilliant job done by Naughty Dog's scriptwriters and voice talent. And not just in cutscenes. None of the dialogue is cheesy or forced - the characters speak to each other naturally and full of personality.
Drake retains his confident and witty humour, while clearly not acting like your stereotypical hero. He's just an average bloke who finds himself caught up in more trouble than he can be arsed to cope with. His new squeeze, Chloe, and other characters you meet in the game boast equal amounts of flair and wit.
It's good to see that while you spend around 90 percent of the game in the company of an AI helper, they never get in the way. You'd think co-op would be a given but the option isn't there - instead you're limited to three alternative missions in a separate multiplayer mode.
We know what you're thinking: a multiplayer mode for a third-person adventure screams "tacked on". Not in this case. U2's multiplayer is incredibly solid and surprisingly comprehensive.
Competitive game modes include the usual team and non-team-based deathmatch, capture the flag and king of the hill modes. Kills and wins earn you XP and, as with all multiplayer in the post Modern Warfare era, you can buy perks like faster reloading, increased accuracy or more health to boost your chances.
Uncharted 2
Gameplay footage
1:47Exclusive footage of the beta co-op campaign
Uncharted 2
Gameplay footage
1:47Exclusive footage of the beta co-op campaign
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The cover-to-cover system works exactly the same in multiplayer, and is fast yet smooth enough to cope with the chaos of multiplayer gaming. The weapons also perform well, and with the improved grenade controls they play a huge part of the action too.
Then there are co-op modes, which dump you in Firefight/Horde-style battles with increasingly difficult waves of enemies.
You and two others can work your way through three campaign-style missions together, using the co-operative mechanics seen in the single-player game to give each other boosts up to higher platforms, lower ladders or attack shoot outs from different angles. All are excellent, but be warned there's no split-screen play.
It may not have the heritage of pre-PS3 franchises like Metal Gear or Gran Turismo, and Nathan Drake may not be your typical hero with a croaky voice, eye patch, superpowers or pointy blue ears. But in our books he is the exclusive defining star of PS3.
It takes elements from a lot of games - the exploration of Tomb Raider, climbing of Prince of Persia/Assassin's Creed, combat from Gears of War and stealth from Splinter Cell, yet it amalgamates all of these elements perfectly into one package. You can't compare it to any other game.
I finished my shift at 7 but stayed just to see if this review would be posted and CVG, you didnt disappoint.
Its an excellent review and I cant wait to pick up my copy come mid October.
Don't worry CVG I'll get the baiting started (not that this wont be popular witout it lol) ... this is now a firm lid (a top an immense collection of quality titles) on why PS3 gaming is a much better experience overall than that offered by Xbox 360
I don't think I've ever wanted a game as much as I want this, the wait has become agonising since all these reviews with sky high scores started pouring in. Lucky I still have the first one to keep me going till this comes out.
Jesus Christ monkey balls... I can't wait, booked a long weekend for this one. It's scored 98% on metacritic, a game like this comes a couple of times per generation.
The beauty of uncharted is that it's stolen the best traits from awesome games and polished them to buggery. I can personally say that the multiplayer is fantastic and caters for every playing style. Roll October 16th.
Amy Hennig's story telling abilities are amazing. I was p**sed when she left Crystal Dynamics, it meant no more Legacy of Kain, but if she hadn't we'd have missed out on another fantastic franchise. I'm just thankful that Defiance was concluded satisfactorily.
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
the multiplayer side of the game feels very unnatural, it shouldnt be trying to be a third person shooter, stick to being a 'tomb raider clone' something it does very well game of the year? i'll not make that statement till i've finished it
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
What console game looks better?
Forza-3, GT5 (in its current guise at least), Bioshock 2, Alan Wake, *yawn*...the list goes on & on "fatso but not big-boned!"
Well, at least the usual suspects won't be filling this comments section with accusations of CVG having anti-PS3 motives and being biased against their beloved console!
Uh,so Forza 3 has better graphics that Uncharted 2?Go to sleep ,you need it.
Besides ,I suppose you are refering to the bullshots offered by Turn 10 before releasing the demo ,the demo has showed quite clear that the ingame graphics ,while excellent ,are nothing to write home about.
As for Alan Wake and Bioshock 2 ,we have to see them in their full form.For what I have seen both seem inferior to Uncharted 2 by a long shot ,but who knows how they will end up.
I wish you guys could rate this as a percentage because I really wana know what it would get! I didn't see this coming but this is sooo impressive, the Jak games were amazing but on visuals alone this has them beat! I'm gona have to go buy Drakes fortune so I can fully enjoy this!
A 10? From CVG? Am I still sleeping? Can't wait for Uncharted 2, loved every bit of the first one even with my initial skepticism, first game where I got a platinum trophy. Oh well, October 16 can't come soon enough... and Brutal Legend is coming out the same day! s**t, my wallet is going to feel a lot of pain next month... can't wait.
As for Forza 3, played the demo yesterday and was quite disappointed, with all that hype it's getting... graphics were worse than GT5rologue, nowhere close to the screenshots and trailers I've been seeing before... and it felt more like old Need for Speed games than a simulator, though that's not necessary a bad thing, I loved the first 5 NFS games, but was expecting something else from Forza 3... going to wait for GT5 then, maybe I'll get NFS:Shift till then, heard a lot of good things about that one.
Wow, did somebody trick C&VG into thinking it was a 360 game?
I'm kidding...
Great review, Mike. I wouldn't have minded if there was a 9 at the end because it was such a good, informative read. A very rare thing. And I liked the point about it not being compared to any other game. Nice one. I hate all those comparisons... Save those for the fanboys. Like me.
Wow, did somebody trick C&VG into thinking it was a 360 game?
I'm kidding...
Great review, Mike. I wouldn't have minded if there was a 9 at the end because it was such a good, informative read. A very rare thing. And I liked the point about it not being compared to any other game. Nice one. I hate all those comparisons... Save those for the fanboys. Like me.
Have it 360 fangirls!*
Gears of War sucks!**
*I'm joking....
**I'm still joking....
EDIT: Or am I?
*chuckle*
Bore-za just ain't no substitute is it, my friend!
Skimmed milk against full-fat, clog-yer-heart Devon clotted cream!
this is why i bought a ps3 slim! i'm currently playing through the first one and its great.
the best looking game ever? who knows and who cares, but it sure looks purdy. so long as it plays well.
@ starsail - any chance of not being a c0ck? if you haven't got a 360 then you should buy one as it has an awesome games library plus the controller pi$$es all over the dualc0ck3.
I might have to find ways of justifying buying a second gaming machine one of these days, so many good games and yet so little time, and this looks very much like my type of game…
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
What console game looks better?
Forza-3, GT5 (in its current guise at least), Bioshock 2, Alan Wake, *yawn*...the list goes on & on "fatso but not big-boned!"
Yeah, yeah whatever mate the list is that massive you couldn't even think of a game that's already released.
I might have to find ways of justifying buying a second gaming machine one of these days, so many good games and yet so little time, and this looks very much like my type of game…
It's a bloody expensive hobby, no mistake. I plan on buying these before xmas:
Of course, some of those are reviews permitting. However, that's Ł300. It looks like my daughter is getting a Tangerine and a ball of wool for Christmas!
The funny thing is, I don't get much time to play them anymore - it's just habit!
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
What console game looks better?
Forza-3, GT5 (in its current guise at least), Bioshock 2, Alan Wake, *yawn*...the list goes on & on "fatso but not big-boned!"
Yeah, yeah whatever mate the list is that massive you couldn't even think of a game that's already released.
Easy fat c**t! It's only a game for an overpriced Blu-Ray player, so go and play rather than spouting s**t on here you clit!!
"Best looking game ever!"...lol, give me a break and stop spanking it and calm down guys!!...Indeed it does look very nice and I'm sure it's a progression from the ever-popular "Tomb Raider" series, although the lack of split-screen co-op is a travesty!
What console game looks better?
Forza-3, GT5 (in its current guise at least), Bioshock 2, Alan Wake, *yawn*...the list goes on & on "fatso but not big-boned!"
Yeah, yeah whatever mate the list is that massive you couldn't even think of a game that's already released.
Easy fat c**t! It's only a game for an overpriced Blu-Ray player, so go and play rather than spouting s**t on here you clit!!
Wow bet you wouldn't speak to me like that in the street hard man. Unfortunately I've got a job so no time for play. I'm not gonna get into a argument with you, I'll leave you to spout s**t and wank over your Xbox you pathetic little virgin doley t**t. Apologies to everyone trying to have a sensible debate.
I wish you guys could rate this as a percentage because I really wana know what it would get! I didn't see this coming but this is sooo impressive, the Jak games were amazing but on visuals alone this has them beat! I'm gona have to go buy Drakes fortune so I can fully enjoy this!
it is a percentage.
10.0
it could have got 9.9 (99%)
10.0 is 100%
even eurogamer, who dont do decimals. they gave it a 10, but thats still 100%. a 9 from them could have been 90-99%, but a 10 is 100%.
I might have to find ways of justifying buying a second gaming machine one of these days, so many good games and yet so little time, and this looks very much like my type of game…
It's a bloody expensive hobby, no mistake. I plan on buying these before xmas:
Of course, some of those are reviews permitting. However, that's Ł300. It looks like my daughter is getting a Tangerine and a ball of wool for Christmas!
The funny thing is, I don't get much time to play them anymore - it's just habit!
It would indeed cost a lot of money to fund everything I want to play, and on top of that I don’t think I would physically have the time to play them all! Still, I am missing out on some good ones, perhaps I can find a way…though making justification in my mind to allow me to fulfil my desire worries me that it’s crossed over from a habit to an addiction, I’ll have to start going to meetings…
Finally a reason to dust off my PS3! For that alone this game deserves mad props. It does look stunning. If I am completely honest, keep your Killzone's, MGS's etc,the original Uncharted was the reason I bought my PS3, and it still remains the best game I have played on the system (I'm talking exclusives, I tend to go for multi format games on the Xbox because I have a gamerscore problem...).
Now I have a dilemma, as I had planned out my games spend very carefully this year after going a bit mental last winter, and currently Uncharted sits on the 'potential Xmas pressie' list, with all slots in my first day buy list taken up and pre-ordered.
If I am completely honest, keep your Killzone's, MGS's etc,the original Uncharted was the reason I bought my PS3, and it still remains the best game I have played on the system (I'm talking exclusives, I tend to go for multi format games on the Xbox because I have a gamerscore problem...).
my sentiments exactly, most enjoyable game ive played on my PS3 the first one is (so far), although my reason for buying multiplatform releases on the xbox is simply i prefer playing my online on my xbox and prefer the pad. thats my preference by the way, not whats right or wrong.
Can we please try and refrain from posting these bastard shopping lists in reference to "my console is better quality and cheaper than yours". Who cares? All thats gonna do now is start a flood of people whinging how you got the prices Ł5 above what they can find online, ITS NEVER ENDING AND BEYOND TEDIOUS.
Stick to the topic, Uncharted 2 is going to rule all.
Quick question, does it suffer from screen tearing like the first one? It won't stop me buying it and the first one was brilliant but tearing was an issue.
I can't wait for this game. I've also joined the ps3 fanboy's after my 2nd 360 just died on me. I'll get another 360 but this game looks a different class to anything i've seen on microsoft's machine. Definitely game of the year.
After reading this review I realised I have to buy a PS3. my wallet hurts...
Seems like this and God of War are going to be my 2 Big reasons for getting a PS3, only question now is it before or after xmas?
P.S. So much for CVG being 'Xbots'...
Well, at least the usual suspects won't be filling this comments section with accusations of CVG having anti-PS3 motives and being biased against their beloved console!
Wow, did somebody trick C&VG into thinking it was a 360 game?
That's 3 acknowledgements that CVG rig their review scores, 2 new PS3 purchases and one converted fanboy. Not a bad day's work Naughty Dog, not bad at all...
WHAT THE HELL is going on here?!?! CVG giving PlayStation 3 games good reviews? CVG saying you can't compare Uncharted 2 to any other game? CVG dishing out a 10.0?!?!?!
WELL WELL WEEEELLLLLLLL. It's just as well... Everyone else gave Uncharted 2 a great review but I suspected CVG would give this game an 8.9.
CVG review scores are still crap - there's no getting away from it. I bought Halo 3 ODST the other day and the first half hour is played in complete darkness, no way did it deserve to get a 9.0. CVG and EDGE have a bunch of muppet microsh!tting fagtard reviewers working for them and a 10.0 / 10.0 perfect Uncharted 2 review score DOESN'T MAKE UP FOR IT.
Anyway, now that rant is over I'd just like to say...
* God of War 1, 2 and 3. * Heavy Rain. * The Last Guardian. * Gran Turismo 5. * Agent. * Uncharted 3?
No game deserves a 10 - Gav, no game. While I'm happy to see Uncharted 2 getting a favourable review from you lot, it still leaves me wondering how games compare by your scale / system.
* Halo 3 doesn't deserve as much as 9.7. * CoD 4 doesn't deserve as little as 8.9. * KillZone 2 doesn't deserve as little as 8.7. * GTA 4 doesn't really deserve a 9.5.
You lot only reviewed Halo 3 ODST last week and gave that a 9.0 / 10.0. Is Uncharted 2 really as bad as only being 10% (1.0 points) better than Halo 3 ODST?
The truth of the matter is you lot have knackered your review scale with the odd spattering of rabid hype reviews on franchises like Halo and GTA. Giving Uncharted 2 a 10.0 doesn't fix anything, it actually makes things worse.
Most of your highly praised games the past 2 years have been on the XBox 360 and you lot have been biased that way for as long as that.
The problem you've now got is much better games are coming out for the PS3 and your review scores won't scale up, so will you just have to mark PS3 games down instead? Will Halo 3 remain the 2nd best reviewed game for all of this gen?
The whole thing is laughable - and it's down to you lot giving hyped up XBox 360 franchise games too high review scores using a scale that doesn't work.
There'll always be someone nitpicking about decimal points and for good reason. Maybe CVG wants decimals to show how something is a bit better / worse than something else, but you can't increase the original range you set yourselves without going back and reviewing everything again. What happens if CoD 6 or Uncharted 3 blows Uncharted 2 out of the water? Do you pull a PSM and give that a 12.0 / 10.0?
I would be happier if all the games above got a 5 star rating. As in they're all "excellent". An excellent game is just that, whereas a 10.0 / 10.0 or 100% game (what you're doing) - is ridiculous.
I still disagree with you lot giving Halo 3 a 9.7 score, but if you gave it 5 stars it would be fine by me and I hope this makes sense.
If you stick with the 0 - 10.0 scale, I guess every other new XBox 360 game that isn't up to Uncharted 2's standard should now start at 5.0 / 10? Does every new great PS3 game that can't be done on the XBox 360 get a 9.0+ / 10?
What a mess...
I appreciate other sites have the same problem with scoring and scales, but you lot and EDGE have consistently put the XBox 360 ahead of the PS3 for years. Okay so Uncharted gets a good review, but that hasn't and doesn't change anything...
Yeah. I would've given Halo 3 a 9 myself! (ODST is fantastic by the way- try playing it with friends, it's in a whole different league to Call of Duty et al, but that's my opinion and you're welcome to yours). The only thing the Halo games lack is the graphical clout of the likes of Killzone 2- I can't really fault them otherwise- which is why I'm always playing the damn games!
The only ones that think that CVG are getting paid to bump up the 360 games scores are, funnily enough, the Sony fanboys. As many have stated- opinion is opinion. Mind you Lordy, you'd mark up any PS3 game just on the fact it was on the PS3! So... don't ever become a reviewer!
Yeah. I would've given Halo 3 a 9 myself! (ODST is fantastic by the way- try playing it with friends, it's in a whole different league to Call of Duty et al, but that's my opinion and you're welcome to yours).
Well you can keep your opinion. The Halo games play like Michael Jordan playing basketball in armour with a gun. Halo is no more than Quake III Team Arena with some bad guys and cut scenes thrown in.
Halo games lack the graphical clout of the likes of Killzone 2
Now this I agree with. Halo 3 ODST gets released last week with average graphics compared to every FPS around... It should have been marked down by CVG just for that. For Christ's sake, the first half hour is played in total darkness, you can hardly see anything except a bunch of yellow vector outlines for bad guys. Having to turn on / off the brightness thing is pointless and it blurs the graphics like a double dose of vaseline. Any futuristic helmet would determine if it were dark and amp up any lighting issues itself... Even the technology is pathetic!
The only ones that think that CVG are getting paid to bump up the 360 games scores are, funnily enough, the Sony fanboys. As many have stated- opinion is opinion.
Well the XBox 360 fanboys aren't about to complain that their system is getting preferred treatment from CVG and EDGE.
The Wii and PC hardly seem to get that many mainstream reviews and where I have seen the odd one or two, there's only a handful of commenters.
Opinion is opinion indeed and fact is fact!
Mind you Lordy, you'd mark up any PS3 game just on the fact it was on the PS3! So... don't ever become a reviewer!
I'd contest that, I know what makes a good game and what doesn't. I own all the systems and I'd be a lot fairer than these muppets.
Well I'll keep my opinion- but likewise you can keep your 'facts'!
And errr... The beginning of Halo ODST is dark because it's kinda set at night. When the sun goes down... it does tend to get dark then. But anyway, it may lack the polygon pushing power of the other games, but it's artistic style and excellent level design seem to have won it quite a few fans. So I guess it's doing something right. Moving on;
Not everyone that has a 360 is automatically a fanboy. Much like not all PS3 owners are fanboys either (but you certainly aren't helping! )- I've already read on this site alone quite a few so called fanboys state that ODST was marked a little high. (I'd have given it an 8/10 myself- but then I'd never give a game a 10/10 anyway. Oops, let an opinion slip!). But when MGS 4, LBP, Killzone 2, Uncharted 1 and 2 and (i think) GT5 prologue all get high scores (not to mention the likes of Japanese games like Demon Souls getting the thumbs up) I wouldn't say CVG are being biased at all. I wonder whether it's just Sony's lack of dominance this gen that has thrown you guys into disarray or maybe you just hate MS that much. Who knows?
All that really matters is that Uncharted 2 is going to be awesome and I'm looking forward to it!
Another perfect review, surely there must be a few negative reviews out there somewhere? I'm very much looking forward to it, just finished the first one again tonight and got the gold trophy for Normal mode. MW2 is the game I most want TBH, but this will be a great 1 player experience.
The only ones that think that CVG are getting paid to bump up the 360 games scores are, funnily enough, the Sony fanboys.
well, that's a pretty asinine train of thought, "the getting paid to bump up the 360 games scores" that is. however, just a bit of unbiased research will lead you to one factual conclusion; CVG (and EDGE and Eurogamer, to be fair) score 360 exclusives higher, and PS3 exclusives lower, than their Metacritic averages. the argument that it's just opinion can only go so far before one starts to wonder if biasness is marring that opinion.
When I look at the main picture which links to this article I can't help but feel Nathan is dishing out a left hook to the collective xbots of the world!
Those scrooges at Eurogamer slapped a 10/10 on the game as well so it must be special.
Touching on the biased website/publication debate, I think that CVG is pretty straight.
The only large publication that is clearly biased is EDGE. XBOX 360 exclusives score on there the same as or higher then the Metacritic average score. PS3 exclusives score on average 30% less than the average Metacritic score.
(it is very fashionable and cool to debate gaming mags average scores for exclusive games)
HOW CAN YOU AWARD THE GAME 10/10 IF IT HAS SOME DOWNERS,I WOULD THINK A 10/10 GAME WOULD BE PERFECT........SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE JUMPED ON THE BANDWAGON WITH EVERYONE ELSE......NO GAME IS PERFECT
All scores are is a way to quickly check if a games any good or not. if you're not that interested and you just want to double check. 10/10 doesn't mean. This Game is perfect. It means this games really bloody good.
And i can't wait to get my hands on it. thinking of replaying the previous and then running out and getting it as soon as i've finished it.
"Just an expensive Blu Ray player." Haha gotta love a bit of jealousy. Wonderful.
Super Elite 250gb Modern Warefare 2 Bundle - Ł249.99
Wireless Adapter - Ł49.99 + Gold Sub Ł39.99
Total = Ł339.97
---------------------------------------------
PS3 Slim 250gb console Ł299.99
Extra Controller - Ł34.99
MW2 - Ł44.99
Total = Ł379.97
----------------------------------------------
Hmmmmm, I must go and find myself that Ł40 Blu Ray player...
Price is no longer a stick to beat the PS3 with, it's almost even.
UC2 looks immense I'll be getting it for Xmas, but I'll be busy with Forza 3 and MW2 until then, and probably beyond. Currychips? oh go f**k off..I have both machines and the PS3 (PHAT) was way more expensive then the elite 360, plus you DONT HAVE TO HAVE WI FI and the PS3 WI FI is notoriously slow...anyways I been playing the beta..absolutely great fun..cant wait for the game, just want the fanboys to f**k off about prices...buy both, and enjoy the games!
It looks and play amazing.Its just a shame so called xbox users have to infiltrate these posts to try to get one over what is a superior piece of machinery,i hear people saying about HALO ODST being the game of the year from xbox users,and all the ps3 is, is just a blu ray player,..TO THESE PEOPLE I ASK....HOW MANY DISCS IS HALO ODST ON(2)??AND HOW MANY IS UNCHARTED 2 ON(1)..BLU-RAY TECHNOLOGY WIPES THE FLOOR WITH MICROSOFTS ATTEMPTS.HERE ENDITH THE LESSON..
Here, here...who cares? You fanboys want to fight, go on some other forum and fight. Really. --------------------------------------------------- Anyways, all-n-all good review.
Shame about the split-screen, I was really excited about three player co-op, imagining how fun it would be to call meh friends over and play Uncharted 2.
Also, climbing was relatively easy in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, but my only gripes about it was there wasn't enough of it, and after reading this, well I am a little *umphed* about it. --------------------------------------------------- And for you fanboys, here is what I think about those reveiws CVG has made:
Halo 3 should have gotten an 85, the first and second one were the best of the series, Halo 1 being all about the multiplayer.
Halo: ODST should have gotten 80. I love the fact they have given you all the unlocks for armor and such. Aslo, great fun all and all.
Killzone 2 should ahve gotten 85, not anymore, due to the fact of how dissapointed I was of the story, yet it has such a detailed and amazingingly good history (the Helghast are the good guys)
GA Iv should have gotten a 90 due to the fact that it could have more amazing missions and less "go there, do that"
I personally thought the original Halo was the best. Battling the Elites on legendary in split screen co-op in the snowy control room level still stands out as one of my best gaming experiences ever.
Halo 2 was very good and carried the combat formula well but in terms of design and imagination, lacked the first games amazing amostphere not too mention took away the Arnie automatic weapon and the kick ass handgun.
Halo 3 was too short (I honestly couldnt believe it when the game went over). Now with COD, Killzone 2 among others, Halos combat hasnt really evolved since the first game to dramtic next gen heights.
Killzone 2 blew me away and was completely underated by CVG in my opinion but it still didnt reach the technical standards set by Halo 1 on its own generation.
I personally thought the original Halo was the best. Battling the Elites on legendary in split screen co-op in the snowy control room level still stands out as one of my best gaming experiences ever.
Halo 2 was very good and carried the combat formula well but in terms of design and imagination, lacked the first games amazing amostphere not too mention took away the Arnie automatic weapon and the kick ass handgun.
Halo 3 was too short (I honestly couldnt believe it when the game went over). Now with COD, Killzone 2 among others, Halos combat hasnt really evolved since the first game to dramtic next gen heights.
Killzone 2 blew me away and was completely underated by CVG in my opinion but it still didnt reach the technical standards set by Halo 1 on its own generation.
I wholeheartedly agree that the first Halo was by far the best - subsequently deteriorating with each consecutive release.
...and regarding your point about the evolution of the game (or lack of it in this case!) I think it is interesting to note that they dropped the "Combat Evolved" moniker after the first title.
Could this be because the combat never did evolve much further after Halo 1?
if you don't own a 360 then i could see where you're coming from in saying how great the beta for Uncharted 2 is. However if you've played L4D or Gears. its a bit meh. IMO. Don't get me wrong its a solid experience but it just wasn't very captivating.
After playing the Brutal Legend Demo though. I'll be happy to wait to play Uncharted. God damn Tim Shaeffers on top form.
Not knocking Uncharted by the way, i'm sure the single players gonna be epic in every sense of the word. but considering the competition if you own all 3 consoles the multiplayers not that impressive.
if you don't own a 360 then i could see where you're coming from in saying how great the beta for Uncharted 2 is. However if you've played L4D or Gears. its a bit meh. IMO. Don't get me wrong its a solid experience but it just wasn't very captivating.
After playing the Brutal Legend Demo though. I'll be happy to wait to play Uncharted. God damn Tim Shaeffers on top form.
Not knocking Uncharted by the way, i'm sure the single players gonna be epic in every sense of the word. but considering the competition if you own all 3 consoles the multiplayers not that impressive.
Uncharted 2 multiplayer is 'meh' compared to L4D or Gears?
Whats your PSN ID so we can check out your stats at NaughtyDog.com because I bet you have never played it.
I only gave it a quick go on deathmatch and wasn't that impressed.
Sorry voodoo, it turns out not everyone has the same opinion of things as you. I also said it was ok. Just not great. the fact that the matchmaking is s**te doesn't help things either.
I wish you guys could rate this as a percentage because I really wana know what it would get! I didn't see this coming but this is sooo impressive, the Jak games were amazing but on visuals alone this has them beat! I'm gona have to go buy Drakes fortune so I can fully enjoy this!
it is a percentage.
10.0
it could have got 9.9 (99%)
10.0 is 100%
even eurogamer, who dont do decimals. they gave it a 10, but thats still 100%. a 9 from them could have been 90-99%, but a 10 is 100%.
Not to state that you're wrong (though you are), but on a 1 to 10 scale, the percentages would surely break down like this: 1 - 01-10% 2 - 11-20% 3 - 21-30% 4 - 31-40% 5 - 41-50% 6 - 51-60% 7 - 61-70% 8 - 71-80% 9 - 81-90% 10 - 91-100%
Not to take anything away from what is clearly a great score for an excellent game. It only pains me that it's not multiplatform... Weirdly, Uncharted: Drakes Fortune was the one game that I had considered getting a PS3 for, and now the sequel has trumped it.
Unfortunately, I suffer from the same thing Mark does, having not enough time to play games, and buying them out of habit more than anything else.
I'm sure a 10/10 is meant to mean that it couldn't reasonably be expected to be any better...
No game is utterly perfect, surely!
Ex-frigging-actly!! Where did the belief come from that 10/10 means a perfect game? If that's the cas, why make the ratings system out of 10 at all? It's crazy.
And completely ridiculous to suggest that 10/10 should never happen, but 5 stars out of 5 stars is fine WHat's the bloody difference? Semantics, nothing more.
It looks and play amazing.Its just a shame so called xbox users have to infiltrate these posts to try to get one over what is a superior piece of machinery,i hear people saying about HALO ODST being the game of the year from xbox users,and all the ps3 is, is just a blu ray player,..TO THESE PEOPLE I ASK....HOW MANY DISCS IS HALO ODST ON(2)??AND HOW MANY IS UNCHARTED 2 ON(1)..BLU-RAY TECHNOLOGY WIPES THE FLOOR WITH MICROSOFTS ATTEMPTS.HERE ENDITH THE LESSON..
I don't own it myself, not really a Halo fan, but I believe ODST is on 1 disc actually. The second disc is Halo 3 multiplayer with all available maps. Naff all to do with ODST. Facts. Check em before posting. Brain. Engage it before spouting. Life. Get one. Just a console. Now breathe.
I only gave it a quick go on deathmatch and wasn't that impressed.
Sorry voodoo, it turns out not everyone has the same opinion of things as you. I also said it was ok. Just not great. the fact that the matchmaking is s**te doesn't help things either.
I only gave it a quick go on deathmatch and wasn't that impressed.
Sorry voodoo, it turns out not everyone has the same opinion of things as you. I also said it was ok. Just not great. the fact that the matchmaking is s**te doesn't help things either.
surprise surprise... ID unknown.
Don't be a tool, you can see he just made a typo. Out of interest, have you ever played Gears multiplayer or Left 4 Dead to any length where you can make a fair comparison?
Looking forward to giving the beta a go, once it's finally downloaded. Shame it's not a campaign demo, though, as that's the bit I'm far more interested in.
I only gave it a quick go on deathmatch and wasn't that impressed.
Sorry voodoo, it turns out not everyone has the same opinion of things as you. I also said it was ok. Just not great. the fact that the matchmaking is s**te doesn't help things either.
surprise surprise... ID unknown.
Don't be a tool, you can see he just made a typo. Out of interest, have you ever played Gears multiplayer or Left 4 Dead to any length where you can make a fair comparison?
Looking forward to giving the beta a go, once it's finally downloaded. Shame it's not a campaign demo, though, as that's the bit I'm far more interested in.
There's also the fact that according to NaughtyDog.com I'm only a level 2... the reality being that I'm a level 12....
So I wouldn't really use that as any great source of info...
Don't be a tool, you can see he just made a typo. Out of interest, have you ever played Gears multiplayer or Left 4 Dead to any length where you can make a fair comparison?
Looking forward to giving the beta a go, once it's finally downloaded. Shame it's not a campaign demo, though, as that's the bit I'm far more interested in.
Don't assume we're all as thick as you, I tried wheresmymonkey
Good to see you're still a two faced t**t. If this was an Xbox game review and someone dared mention that a PS3 game was better you'd be the first to whinge and cry about it. By the way.. Gears is s**t and if you check my ID you'll see I played it for more than a few minutes. Why are you even bringing up L4D? L4D isn't even the same type of game! Moron!
Don't be a tool, you can see he just made a typo. Out of interest, have you ever played Gears multiplayer or Left 4 Dead to any length where you can make a fair comparison?
Looking forward to giving the beta a go, once it's finally downloaded. Shame it's not a campaign demo, though, as that's the bit I'm far more interested in.
Don't assume we're all as thick as you, I tried wheresmymonkey
Good to see you're still a two faced t**t. If this was an Xbox game review and someone dared mention that a PS3 game was better you'd be the first to whinge and cry about it. By the way.. Gears is s**t and if you check my ID you'll see I played it for more than a few minutes. Why are you even bringing up L4D? L4D isn't even the same type of game! Moron!
I mentioned Left 4 Dead because the person you originally abused mentioned it. And unless you cannot grasp the English language, I didn't compare L4D or Gears of War 2 with Uncharted 2. You did (number of games on the Gears 2 site shows 0, by the way. And you played Gears 1 about 2 years ago but you didn't play enough to get the achievement for completing your first ranked match). And what I asked was a genuine question because you seem very quick to judge, yourself. I've got no problem in people comparing games if it's a fair comparison. Ritual slagging off for no reason is what bothers me.
I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way.
Anyways, back on topic. I managed to get hold of the beta last night and have a very quick play. It wasn't bad at all - just need to play around with the control settings as it did seem a bit jerky. And I expect all that "synching" business was a one-off or something to do with the beta because that could get quite annoying every time I start up multiplayer!
As with all these "system seller" games, I always notch one point off the review in my mind to remove the hype factor and avoid being let down. Saying that, Uncharted is my fav PS3 game to date, and looking at all the trailers of this sequel has left me in awe. I for one can't wait to play this on release, but I'd still advise people to calm down with this "best game ever" talk. GOTY though? Looking odds on at the minute.
I mentioned Left 4 Dead because the person you originally abused mentioned it. And unless you cannot grasp the English language, I didn't compare L4D or Gears of War 2 with Uncharted 2. You did (number of games on the Gears 2 site shows 0, by the way. And you played Gears 1 about 2 years ago but you didn't play enough to get the achievement for completing your first ranked match). And what I asked was a genuine question because you seem very quick to judge, yourself. I've got no problem in people comparing games if it's a fair comparison. Ritual slagging off for no reason is what bothers me.
I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way.
Did I say I played Gears 2?
Let me make it nice and simple for you... I played GEARS OF WAR and didn't like it. You maybe like to spend your time playing games you don't like... I don't! I'm hardly going to waste time on it's sequel. As for judging people... very rich coming from you.
in a mere few days i will have the shiny steelbook edition and i'm going to blitz the game even if my girlfriend has to sit and watch for the whole weekend. bring it on!
I managed to get hold of the beta last night and have a very quick play.
I decided to download the trial demo too... but, sadly, found that the aiming was ridiculous! For example, if my crosshair is pointing at someone's head it should hit that guys head. In Uncharted, apparently my aiming accuracy is diminished the closer I get to my target, not the further away my target is, which of course is the case in real life.
I don't understand why they put crosshairs in the game to begin with, if they planned on something utterly stupid as this. If somebody is close to me and the reticule clearly shows I'm aiming in their general direction - they are after all only a few metres away, so aiming in their general direction means you will hit them - I should hit them!
Firing without aiming is ridiculously inaccurate. Either remove the crosshair or make it accurate, there is no point in having an aiming indicator if you don't hit where the aiming indicator shows anyway. If somebody runs towards me, and I clearly aim my gun at them, I should hit them. I should hit them more and more the closer they get. Yet, it seems that the point where you are the least vulnerable to gunfire is when your standing right next to the barrel of the gun.
It wasn't bad at all - just need to play around with the control settings as it did seem a bit jerky. And I expect all that "synching" business was a one-off or something to do with the beta because that could get quite annoying every time I start up multiplayer!
Yeah, the whole multi-player experience is terrible for me right now, because if I meet people close, I will not hit them with my shots even when the aiming reticule clearly shows me aiming for their head or chest or whatever, and they will run a bit closer and melee me to death. They should already have been dead. I will pick-up Uncharted for its single player, but if things are like this in the final game, I will definitely stay away from the multiplayer part.
spent a weekend reviewing this, first game i've ever played through on PS3 and i'm now considering forking out for one having had a go on this! it's absolutely incredible and deserves it's perfect score
I mentioned Left 4 Dead because the person you originally abused mentioned it. And unless you cannot grasp the English language, I didn't compare L4D or Gears of War 2 with Uncharted 2. You did (number of games on the Gears 2 site shows 0, by the way. And you played Gears 1 about 2 years ago but you didn't play enough to get the achievement for completing your first ranked match). And what I asked was a genuine question because you seem very quick to judge, yourself. I've got no problem in people comparing games if it's a fair comparison. Ritual slagging off for no reason is what bothers me.
I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way.
Did I say I played Gears 2?
Let me make it nice and simple for you... I played GEARS OF WAR and didn't like it. You maybe like to spend your time playing games you don't like... I don't! I'm hardly going to waste time on it's sequel. As for judging people... very rich coming from you.
Well then you surely can't make a fair comparison between the multiplayer of uncharted 2 and gears 2 becasue you just admitted you haven't played it you utter clod. If you had you'd realise that Gears 2 multiplayer is far superior to the origianl. But since you didn't bother giving the sequel a whirl it obviously gives you the right to tell us that the IMO mediocre Deathmatch portion of Uncharted 2 wasn't as good.
You can compare L4D to it becasue we are talking about how competant and fun the multiplayer section is. they are both shooters in this respect at the end of the day. I know its hard for your feeble mind to grap but apart from the position of the camera the general controls are pretty similar in both.
My PSN ID is WhersmyMonkey. It was a typo when i made it. I've only given the Uncharted MP a brief go as i said and it was alright.just not worthing yelling to the hills about. Needless to say that the singleplayer in uncharted 2 is going to be as brilliant as the original.
Your constant need to be right or put me down in some way(and failing as per usual) just shows that your closer to spewtum than humanity.
Just my tuppence but I found Gears 2 a little unspectacular.
Now I'll qualify that a bit before the bawling starts:
The game looked gorgeous (even if it ain't up to the standards of UC2 and KZ2) and also played well. In fact the whole package was very well-polished.
However, I just felt that I'd been there before and seen it all before.
Uncharted seems to offer a fairly comparable experience but with a better cover system and a nice breath-of-fresh-air setting. To be honest, that alone makes it a winner for me.
Besides, Marcus Fenix blatantly doesn't get the girls...
Well then you surely can't make a fair comparison between the multiplayer of uncharted 2 and gears 2 becasue you just admitted you haven't played it you utter clod. If you had you'd realise that Gears 2 multiplayer is far superior to the origianl. But since you didn't bother giving the sequel a whirl it obviously gives you the right to tell us that the IMO mediocre Deathmatch portion of Uncharted 2 wasn't as good.
You can compare L4D to it becasue we are talking about how competant and fun the multiplayer section is. they are both shooters in this respect at the end of the day. I know its hard for your feeble mind to grap but apart from the position of the camera the general controls are pretty similar in both.
My PSN ID is WhersmyMonkey. It was a typo when i made it. I've only given the Uncharted MP a brief go as i said and it was alright.just not worthing yelling to the hills about. Needless to say that the singleplayer in uncharted 2 is going to be as brilliant as the original.
Your constant need to be right or put me down in some way(and failing as per usual) just shows that your closer to spewtum than humanity.
I will state this simply for you, I didn't compare Uncharted 2 to anything, you did! Showing that once again you just can't stand positive PS3 articles.
Try letting that fact sink through that thick skull of yours. When you're at it, buy a dictionary and look up spewtum.
Hmmm, didn't notice this myself on my quick trial go. Are you sure it's not that...um, how to say...you suck at aiming?
Well I tried with the Pistol later and it seemed fine... I suppose these issues with aiming could be passed off as lag or mis-perceptions without any solid proof, but given there are now reports of players' in-game experiences surfacing. I think there are still some occasions where the system fails to recognise the reticule is over a player at close range and is wrongfully applying the offset; as I have clearly aimed at people who are stationary at close range and shots miss (them being stationary should put lag out of any equation) - I reckon Naughty Dog should gather data to try and determine what circumstances caused the miss.
Uncharted seems to offer a fairly comparable experience but with a better cover system and a nice breath-of-fresh-air setting. To be honest, that alone makes it a winner for me.
Incidentally, I decided to go and play the original Uncharted again; for comparison purposes, and I've just noticed that if you hide behind a wall without going into cover it is possible to shoot enemies that Drake would not even be able to see due to the wall being in the way. Basically Drake is hidden behind the wall but when you aim, the reticule is in the centre of the screen and the camera is not directly behind Drake, but is slightly to one side. So you can see and shoot stuff that Drake would not actually be able to see. I guess they'll have fixed this for Uncharted 2 and it has caused the minor close-range aiming issues, but I'll have a look next time I play the beta.
I'm disappointed the platforming sequences have not been improved. They're, so far, identical to the original, granted the opening sequence is very nice to watch, but the gameplay is a failure in that sequence. It is not challenging at all. It is very obvious where you are supposed to climb/jump and you basically cannot fail, as far as I can tell. So far the game is platforming and combat set pieces, and the platforming, to me, is as uninteresting as the original. Hopefully later in the game the two will be integrated together in more interesting ways. Right now, the platforming is just a novelty, because most of the jumps are scripted so you will jump the correct distance and grab everything perfectly - at the moment there is absolutely zero excitement in the platforming.
Got to add here though, that there's just so much in this game that the budget for it must have been enormous. Everything has been lavished with so much care, attention and polish. It's a real landmark game... and Chloe is a filthy minx - she's awesome! BTW, does anyone know yet if the co-operative Survival mode is limitless in rounds; or limited to 10, like with Gold Rush?
I picked up the first Uncharted for a tenner and didn't expect much, but it was only my girlfriend who stopped me playing through the whole thing in one go. It was a fantastic game and I'm so psyched for the sequel, it's one of only two games I've ever pre-ordered. The other I'm sad to say, was Resistance 2 - alas it didn't quite turn out as I'd hoped.
okay, here it is: The first game is a charming. competent incredible looking game which was let down by shoddy controls and never ending badguys turning up..which exacerbated the shoddy controls.
This game is fan-bloody-tastic. I hate the first one and i think this one is the bees knees. Lucky it came out early in Spain for some reason.
So, what i'm saying is..if like me you thought the first one was crap..give this one a go. Its worth it.
Well then you surely can't make a fair comparison between the multiplayer of uncharted 2 and gears 2 becasue you just admitted you haven't played it you utter clod. If you had you'd realise that Gears 2 multiplayer is far superior to the origianl. But since you didn't bother giving the sequel a whirl it obviously gives you the right to tell us that the IMO mediocre Deathmatch portion of Uncharted 2 wasn't as good.
You can compare L4D to it becasue we are talking about how competant and fun the multiplayer section is. they are both shooters in this respect at the end of the day. I know its hard for your feeble mind to grap but apart from the position of the camera the general controls are pretty similar in both.
My PSN ID is WhersmyMonkey. It was a typo when i made it. I've only given the Uncharted MP a brief go as i said and it was alright.just not worthing yelling to the hills about. Needless to say that the singleplayer in uncharted 2 is going to be as brilliant as the original.
Your constant need to be right or put me down in some way(and failing as per usual) just shows that your closer to spewtum than humanity.
I will state this simply for you, I didn't compare Uncharted 2 to anything, you did! Showing that once again you just can't stand positive PS3 articles.
Try letting that fact sink through that thick skull of yours. When you're at it, buy a dictionary and look up sputum.
I started by comparing Uncharted2's MP to other titles within the genre. As it is the easiest way to provide context. something you should probably learn to appreciate although as our discussions have often shown you have little to no understanding of it.
I was just stating my preference. and i'll stick by it. But i'll sing from the rafters that Uncharted 2's single player is beyond reproach,Pacing, set pieces, the combat, it seems a little more easy going than the original but that is by no means a bad thing. I think the single player in uncharted 2 deserves a 10 by itself.
The MP i'm not so impressed with. But thats my own preference and i like yourself am entitled to it.
Look at that i just praised a PS3 game. In fact i'd say it deserves to given every GOTY award going. I hope it wins a BAFTA or too as well Becasue it deserves it.
Get this through your thick skull. I own a PS3 and copies of both uncharted games and i think they're brill.
I'm also going to stick to my guns on my previous comment. You are more like a mix or mucus and saliva. Than a human.
I havent played the game much, purley because I don't want to finish it, it's that good. I almost feel myself getting upset when I think about an ending to this game.
The set pieces I have experienced are truly amazing, and even little things like walking in the snow at the beginning had me grinning like an idiot.
Graphics are untouchable, ive not actualy witnessed anything near the top quality, hi res, hi bright realistic colours that are in U2. With the added bonus of NO pop up detail. Some of the background detail are as detailed and and good quality as the foreground, which is what seperates this game from the rest. On the city level... (cant remember the name.. im sorry) this is what i mean, you can see hundreds and hundreds of other buildings (not 2 pictures). 3d, gorgeously details buldings and mountains and tree lines... all sorts. truly amazing stuff.
Im at work at the moment, day dreaming about the game, that i dont want to play, because its so good. Sad & confusing i know...
1: Neither Xbox 360 or PS3 fans should be happy if CVG gives overly favourable scores to games on their console. I prefer honest scores. PS3 fans, why worry if Halo 3 ODST gets a good score? It doesn't hurt you in any way. Same goes to 360 fans. UC2 is a superb game. That doesn't make GoW any worse.
2: Most games released nowadays come out on 360 and PS3. Each console has only a handful of must-have exclusive titles released each year. Most of the games you play on your machine are mutli-format titles. The best exclusive titles on each system kinda balance out the two machines. There is no 'better' console.
3: I have a PS3 and a 360. Both are amazing machines that can give hours of enjoyment. It doesn't matter what scores are given, just as long as you enjoy gaming. the only opinion that really matters is your own.
How long is this game chapterwise? so far i'm on chapter 7.
It's an odd thing Uncharted 2. I want to go on about how wonderful the set pieces are and what i've played so far. But i also don't want to ruin it for other people.
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