Your response to Daniel Plowman in the latest edition to the magazine was fundamentally incorrect, and just a cop out by a so called "leading" magazine.
Daniel challenged the pricing of games on Steam (and then lost the plot), and you replied with
Quote:
the prices on Steam are set by the individual publishers, not Valve. If you object to the prices, contact the publishers and yell at them.
As a PC Gaming magazine, I would have thought that it was in your interest to pick up on the issues your readership has and take the issues up with Developers, Publishers and Retailers – as you have seen fit to do with Games for Windows Live.
Pricing on Steam is all wrong – most new releases are £25 to £30 on Steam, whereas I can normally get the same game, in a box with a disc, for £18 to £25. Also, with Retail most games drop in price over time, but on Steam they remain constant for years and only reduce as part of a weekend sale.
I’ll be honest here – I would much rather purchase games from the comfort of my own home, and not have to rely on Royal Mail to find my house, but I just can’t justify paying a premium price for digital download as opposed to the boxed version.
Steams pricing is an issue, and it is not an issue with one or two publishers, but with all games on Steam. So the simple answer would be for a “leading” magazine to take this up directly with them and let them know of the issue, and your readerships view. If we do not make this clear, then the UK will continue to be a secondary market which Valve treats as an afterthought – I am confident that if pricing was the same (if not cheaper – no need for physical media, logistics, etc) than retail then sales would increase.
The margin per sale may be less, but as they proved by reducing the price of Unreal Tournament 3 – you make many more sales which provides a higher profit margin than the original release.
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The game was the first on the bestseller list during that week and Valve says that Steam sales of Unreal Tournament 3 went up by no less than 2,000%.
As stated by Red_Avatar in another thread:
Quote:
Did PCG really say that? Because it's not true. The publisher sets a MINIMUM. Valve can set it to any price they want above that and they have - without notifying the publisher. CD Projekt weren't too happy when they wanted to see Witcher get sold for $30 only for Valve to change that into $50 They then dropped it to $40 after discussing it with Valve and that's where it remains even now.
Other developers (especially Indy devs) have already confirmed that it's Valve who changes prices without notification. Of course the big players won't openly talk about this or maybe they have a special contract but Valve definitely HAS set the prices in the past. The whole move from dollars to euro made that clear: most publishers didn't even know of the price difference until angry customers warned them.
Another example: Egosoft admitted being dismayed and asked Valve to properly alter the price for X3 to be similar to the dollar which is the reason why it's one of the few games on Steam to have a proper price conversion.
In other words: Valve changes prices and only after a publisher complains, they alter them.
RPS have also detailed the pricing issue here Click Here .
To lay down the gauntlet – are PC Gamer willing to discuss the issue with Steam/Valve and campaign for more equitable pricing to both the US and retail?
The main problem with Steam is that it's too big for its own good. If games are sold for less than the RRP, stores will start to bitch and may not be willing to stock the games. This is one of the reasons why indy games don't have such a problem: they don't sell their games in stores.
Still, the move from dollars to euros and the outright unfair pricing during "sales" is ridiculous. Add to that, that most games in Steam's list are already available on budget or have world-wide reduced prices, it seems ridiculous to still see full retail prices.
Call of Duty 4 was the most recent example, where the price AFTER a massive reduction was STILL higher than buying the game brand new as "Game of the Year" edition. You got to wonder what Valve were thinking by shoving such a blatant rip off under our noses and calling it a "sale". You'd think they'd have more brains than that!
In the end, it coats Steam with a layer of "greed" and the sense that Valve and the publisher are completely disconnected from reality. Sure, you'll have the morons who will pay €60 (that's £53 for you Brits) for mediocre FPS ( *cough* http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/10170/ *cough*) but you'll also get a bad rep.
I don't expect Brits to complain too much since you're the only once NOT getting as badly ripped off but how about you convert our European prices to UK prices - WITHOUT choking on whatever you're munching.
In the end, I recommend Impulse who is getting most of the same games but while sticking to a conversion of a US price. Thanks to a proxy, I bought the digital version of Dragon Age Origins for ... £20. On Steam? £45.
Oh, and did I mention? If Impulse goes down, you can still keep playing your games. I didn't even have to reinstall them OR install Impulse when installing Windows 7 and copying over my old games. _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
CurriedCat: for me, the high prices are annoying because it's still only a subscription you're paying for + they make huge profits on digital sales so it's all going in the pockets of publishers and Valve at our expense. Give us a premium, make it worth it, etc. and then it may be attractive. But paying twice as much for half as much? Are they insane? _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
I like it for the autopatching, friends lists, community and the complete lack of having to put the correct CD to play a game.
The high prices are annoying but then again I just shop where it's cheapest. As for subscription the rise of online activations (for shop bought versions) is increasing and how long the servers will be up for is anyones guess. Sooner or later the games won't be installable.
No there's not - not in the real sense. Their "sales" are when they drop prices to where they should be. Most sales don't even drop low enough to even match retail copies! Did you see the price they dropped COD4 to? £27! As a sale price!!!
CurriedCat wrote:
I like it for the autopatching, friends lists, community and the complete lack of having to put the correct CD to play a game.
If people are that lazy that they'd rather wait a week to get a patch than to install it manually, I guess Steam is perfect for them.
Heck, there's been plenty of complaints of online games not working because Valve took too long to create a Steam version of the patch. Thanks but no thanks.
Personally, I prefer every other digital service to Steam - they have all the advantages without many of the disadvantages of Steam. Okay, you don't have the community but I frankly don't bother with that anyway. _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
If you don't like Steam, don't bloody use it. If a product's only available on it, tough. Grow a set and stick by your own standards.
The constant screeching and hissing about Valve keeping you down is really f**king boring.
If you don't like my posts, don't bloody read them. Oh wait, you did yet you accuse me of the same thing. Hypocrisy eh? Tssk tssk. _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
Okay, you don't have the community but I frankly don't bother with that anyway.
And on behalf of the Steam community I'd like to express our gratitude. _________________ Gorgeras wrote: the rest of me looks as veiny and throbbing as that.
[C] an occasion when goods are sold at a lower price than usual.
So this weekends deal of 50% off Mass Effect (£6.49) isn't a sale? Try looking at this thread Click Here and see how many times Steam comes up. TF2 was up for a handfull of pence last weekend again obviously not a sale. Most pre-orders through Steam come with 10% off as well.
Autopatching:
In this day an age we shouldn't have to bloody well hunt around for patches. There's a thing called the internet and content delivery. Why shouldn't I expect my games to patch themselves?
Steam also provides a single portal so I can see what games my mates are playing and an easy way to drop in on online games. Much better than firing up 20 games just to find out from the in built browser who's playing what. God help those daft enough to buy MW2 on PC.
Part of the reason the prices can sometimes be high (and this applies to all digital venders) is
that the publishers i.e. Activision in the case of COD4 don't understand how digital distribution
prices should work. I'm not getting a CD/DVD, no pamphlet that passes for a manual, no box etc so
therefore lower cost. Until they realise that they can't charge full price (RRP) for them then I
won't buy them especially when there's other discounts out there.
I don't see you complaining about HMV, Game etc who sell their stocks at the RRP?
I look around for the best price and if it's a tie and Steam has it then they get my cash as I
don't have to wait for the postie to decide to deliver it to my house rather than the depot.
If you don't like Steam then no ones forcing you to use it. Move along and get on with life and
never pay it anymore attention. For someone who hates it you certainly seem to give it rather a
lot of your time.
Last edited by CurriedCat on 6 Nov 09 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
If you don't like my posts, don't bloody read them. Oh wait, you did yet you accuse me of the same thing. Hypocrisy eh? Tssk tssk.
It'll only be hypocrisy when I keep posting the same thing across a multitude of threads, for a ridiculous length of time, while using hyperbolic anecdotes that - mysteriously - lack sources.
Honestly Red, you're like that retarded old man that comes into the store I work. There's a legitimate focus somewhere, but the mumbling, constant pointless rambling and irritating voice do nothing but make him look stupid.
In this day an age we shouldn't have to bloody well hunt around for patches. There's a thing
called the internet and content delivery. Why shouldn't I expect my games to patch themselves?
Because sometimes you find out that patches actually make the game WORSE but the problem with Steam is that it will automatically patch it for you no matter what which means you could be with a non working game for awhile before Steam automatically downloads the next patch that might make it better. _________________ Fall of the Republic
Because sometimes you find out that patches actually make the game WORSE but the problem with Steam is that it will automatically patch it for you no matter what.
Err yeah, unless you right click on the game in Steam, select properties and untick 'keep this game up to date'....
Valve - always several steps ahead mate. _________________ Gorgeras wrote: the rest of me looks as veiny and throbbing as that.
regardless of how cheaply you can buy the games in a store or via an online supplier like Amazon, it's not valves fault.
Valve do not have the legal right, or ability to set the price of how much the game is to be sold for on Steam, nor do they have the legal right to set when, how many and how much the sale price will be for any games.
Except, obviously, for there own.
If you have issues with the prices of certain games on Steam, especially when they don't come with "manuals or boxes" then you need to speak to the company that owns the game licence.
I mean, I disagree that Family guy via Itunes was (when I last checked) £12.99 for season one. No box, or DVD's and on a small screen (and running through Quicktime <GAH!> )... but can I blame Apple for this? No... the price is set by Fox.
I understand that when I'm getting a digital download there's no box etc it's just that the publishers don;t seem to realise that due to this the price should be lower especially when they are competing with other online retailers.
I like steam and at least valve have the right idea with their pricing.
Steam not settiing the prices is bullshit, its already been known that a few indie developers have found that they get told by Valve to put the price to a certain level. Jonathan Blow had to fight for his game to be £10 instead of the Valve £15. Now do you really think Valve don't do this for the bigger companies to get better profit. _________________ Fall of the Republic
when I'm getting a digital download there's no box etc it's just that the publishers don't seem to realise that due to this the price should be lower
Or, just as an alternative possibility you understand, publishers are fully aware of this, but think "hey, why lower the prices? We can make more money this way!" Or even "why lower the prices? People are paying them..." _________________ Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four.
If this is granted, all else follows.
Because sometimes you find out that patches actually make the game WORSE but the problem with Steam is that it will automatically patch it for you no matter what which means you could be with a non working game for awhile before Steam automatically downloads the next patch that might make it better.
Very true. Try looking on the Steam forums concerning patch 1.01 of Dragon Age. Impulse wisely hasn't offered the patch yet while Steam has already auto-installed it, to the anger of many. I turn it off myself but Steam turns it on again from time to time (I think after an update?)
Also, it's a DEFAULT value and for most people, it will be turned on so saying "it *can* be turned off" is a weak point since most won't even know this or they'll only find out after a bad patch. How about, like Impulse, they simply ASK if they can update the game? _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
So this weekends deal of 50% off Mass Effect (£6.49) isn't a sale? Try looking at this thread Click Here and see how many times Steam comes up. TF2 was up for a handfull of pence last weekend again obviously not a sale. Most pre-orders through Steam come with 10% off as well.
a) The TF2 discount is a bad example since it lasted only a few hours and was more PR I think than anything else. Most people were too late to get it but that didn't stop hundreds of sites making a news post and giving them free exposure.
b) my point was that most of their "sales" only drop the price to current *normal* prices for those games or even above. Mass Effect is one of the better deals in quite some time and even then, I bought it cheaper than that months ago.
The main problem is that EU prices and UK prices are a world apart and what may be a reasonable deal in the UK is an outrageous deal in Europe - try looking in the same topic to see some European prices I posted and have the guts to still call them good deals. I personally don't even check Steam anymore - I check for deals on all the other sites instead because I can still pay Dollar prices there which makes the prices just about reasonable.
CurriedCat wrote:
Steam also provides a single portal so I can see what games my mates are playing and an easy way to drop in on online games. Much better than firing up 20 games just to find out from the in built browser who's playing what. God help those daft enough to buy MW2 on PC.
That IS a good system which they copied from Xfire or other software before that. It's still pretty primitive, however, and would need a lot more work before it would really be an asset.
CurriedCat wrote:
Part of the reason the prices can sometimes be high (and this applies to all digital venders) is
that the publishers i.e. Activision in the case of COD4 don't understand how digital distribution
prices should work. I'm not getting a CD/DVD, no pamphlet that passes for a manual, no box etc so
therefore lower cost. Until they realise that they can't charge full price (RRP) for them then I
won't buy them especially when there's other discounts out there.
True but I don't think it's a case of "not understanding". These are huge corporations. I think it's simply a different strategy - one that is in our disadvantage. The whole COD MW2 mess is just proof of how far they're willing to take this strategy.
CurriedCat wrote:
I don't see you complaining about HMV, Game etc who sell their stocks at the RRP?
Retail stores pay a ton of overheads: they pay staff, rent, pre-fund the games in the store where they devalue by the day, marketing, advertising, etc. etc. Steam has a ton less overheads and doesn't actually stock anything. In an interview, they admitted that the profit margin is several times higher so if a £10 retail game would give the publisher £2, it would give them £6 on Steam (and £4 going to Valve). So if you look at those figures, can you blame people for being annoyed when they ask £45 for a game when you can buy it retail for £30? They pocket £27 on Steam and only £6 when bought online (not exact figures but you get the idea)
CurriedCat wrote:
If you don't like Steam then no ones forcing you to use it. Move along and get on with life and
never pay it anymore attention. For someone who hates it you certainly seem to give it rather a
lot of your time.
Meh, I already said it before - it's more out of boredom and seeing people say nonsense. Heck, I never make these topics - I just reply to them. I mostly want to make sure people realise that there are BETTER alternatives out there. _________________ We want YOU to boycott DRM infested games!
Quite frankly, if people are stupid enough not to shop around and learn that there are better sites than Steam around, well it's their own ignorant fault when they get ripped off.
PC Gamer, however, should be promoting sites other than Steam, and should be alerting their readers to the fact that steam is not the be all and end all that it claims to be.
After all, the title is PC gamer, and not SteamGamer.
Something about Gabe Newell being spotted on the grassy knoll, and Gordon Freeman dressing up as a bird, flying into his kitchen and messing up his pots and pans
Along with the virtual restraining order, maybe they could declare you a virtual vexatious litigant as well. _________________ Gorgeras wrote: the rest of me looks as veiny and throbbing as that.
There's a number of reasons for the often poor Steam pricing. Firstly, Valve and other publishers have realised they can play off the convenience aspect of digital distribution to make money. Some people may prefer a physical copy, but others, probably those with fast internet and plenty of disposable income, will actually pay more for the convenience of being able to buy a game and play it 20 minutes later, rather than going to the shops or waiting for delivery.
Then there's the relationship between Valve and the publishers. They aren't selling their games to a retailer who's then free to do as they wish, there will be some sort of contract dictating what exactly Valve can sell the games for. If a publisher decides it benefits them more to continue selling their game for £20 when they've released a budget version in the shops for £10, I doubt Valve have a lot of choice in the matter, despite the evidence of the effectiveness of big price cuts.
I have no idea what the reason behind the Euro pricing might be, I doubt Steam has many good deals even in sales if you're paying in Euros. I suspect only Valve could tell us why, and they don't seem inclined to.
At the end of the day though, just treat Steam like any other shop. I don't see anyone going on a crusade because Game frequently overcharge. _________________ Steam ID: Kelron
I hear what most are saying about shopping around, and I do, but PC Gamer often quotes the Steam price even though it's not the most competitive, then adds misinformation into teh letters page.
My gripe isn;t about Steams prices, its the unfair bias in a magazine I pay a subscription for.
I buy from Steam when their prices are cheaper/competitive with elsewhere - but a blatant rip off is a rip off no matter how you look at it.
I would personally buy more from Steam if pricing was more reasonable, and it is a crying shame it isn't.
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