Devil's Advocate - #185

[Deek069]

Another misinformed rant.

There are many independent games that are not remakes of Robotron or nostalgia trips. Take Darwinia for example.

Independent games give an outlet to truly creative people unrestricted by the constraints of the marketing bods who are only concerned with the bottom line.

They also provide a way for talented developers to make themselves known to the larger development studios. (Portal for example).

Unless all you want to see are countless sequels and yearly rehashes then you should seriously support the independent game developers.

[ArchieUK]

Okay, what you said is probably true in about 90% of cases - they're mostly remakes of games that nobody really wants to play again. But then there are the cases when someone comes out and does something that's actually different and actually fun. Audiosurf being the most obvious recent example. I couldn't imagine any big publisher releasing a game like that, it had to be left to the indie guys to come up with it. And thank the lord they did!

And whilst I said that you were probably right about 90% of indie games being utter tripe, surely the same is true of published games; for every Half-Life 2, there are loads of Sims packs and Tycoon games and sub-standard shooters that come nowhere near the greatness of our favourite games.

Throwing money at something is obviously the best way to make it good - look at the movie indutry! Thank god we have our Day After Tomorrows and Pearl Harbors!

Oh, but what you said about the IGF is absolutely spot on. They need some kind of rule about games not yet released.

[goatmms]

Sounds like an article from the Daily Mail. I'm not even going to bother with a proper reply to this, other than research your topic rather than having a glance over bestsellers on your Steam/PSN. Mainstream games are by-and-large tripe or outcomes of huge multinationals with more money than sense, indie games have a better general quality level than most shipped games.

[DarkArchon]

May i remind CVG that Ironclad is technically indie too? There's no way you could call Sins of a Solar Empire a retro piece of junk...

Sure there are lots of not so great indie games, but plenty of pretty good ones too. And creative talent like that needs to get some exposure before a larger developer will snap them up.

Oh, and one other thing, don't call EA a creative company, ever. They buy studios to supply the creative stuff, while they're busy churning out uncountable and often horrible sequels to games that should have died a quiet death long ago. They fund creativity, sure, but they're anything but creative themselves.
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[Dajmin]

What a load of b******s.

That article implies that every indie title is a remake. Let's point to little-known-but-awesome-driving-sim Live For Speed.

Besides, before they got eaten by corporations, all software houses were indies. Codemasters started out as a 3-man outfit. Valve are indie. Just because they're now making a shitload of money doesn't mean they're not free of publisher-enforced restrictions.

Indies are usually where the true innovation is. Because they don't have to prove profitable they can take risks and experiment where no mainstream company would dare.

s**t, if this article was true then EA might as well own every game in the f**king world.
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[will0787]

For crying out loud people, clue's in the title: Devil's Advocate. Tongue very firmly in cheek.

[Chalee]

Thank you will0787 - thought I was the only one who 'got' it

[Mogs]

[brulleks]

I'm assuming that the people who replied without noticing the 'Devil's Advocate' are not PC Gamer readers.

Anyway, Jim - you're lucky. I DID buy the Bagpuss DVD, and was bitterly disappointed.

[ShiftyDinosaur]

It is quite funny to read all the, I admit, articulate rants back at Jim whilst they overlook the "Devil's Advocate" title and end up looking quite foolish.

[Biggwedge]

I understood, and enjoyed the blatant sarcasm and I know bugger all about the indie scene.

[Aircool_212]

Meanwhile, the alternative is...

A 3D shooter here, a RTS there, an MMO on the horizon.

There's indie games and there's retro games. A small lesson in discrete mathematics should highlight the flaws in your argument for you.

And surely Devils Advocate != taking the p**s. I should know, I do both well and know the difference

Another example of slipping standards

[Shin2k35]

Tongue in cheek or not; he's certainly got a point about remaking old games under a different banner.

[pcg_tim]

[Aircool_212]

I don't need the help of Wikipedia to explain to me the term Devil's Advocate. And I'm damned sure that it's got nothing to do with lodging tongues in cheeks.

Unless the article is being ironically ironic; an argument often used to justify conceptual art as being something of value vice a general lack of imagination.

Mind you, I could just be a thickie

[humorguy]

This message is not being displayed because the poster is banned.

[Aircool_212]

Don't forget of course that there's many a PC gamer who's never played some of these older games. Maybe there's a hell of a lot of people out there who enjoy a point 'n' click adventure, either because they've just discovered the genre or because they've always enjoyed the genre - I know I like 'em. My personal favourites are the turn based squad shooters (UFO etc), a genre long dead in the mainstream. Partly because of the stupid way in which marketing works and partly because, no matter what people claim, would never get taken seriously in the gaming press.

Which comes to my gripe with this particular DA; the difference between indie developers and retro gaming.

There's great indie games like Mr Robot which are very much like the 8-bit classics by (as they were known then) Ultimate (now known as rare, is that right?). Mr Robot is a retro game, and a bloody good one too.

On the other hand, Stardocks Sins of a Solar Empire puts the Homeworld series into perspective by kicking it's backside into touch.

Anyway, what is retro gaming? A remake of an old classic? Surely that's what were getting most of the time anyway. Surely any 3D shooter is a retro game considering that genre is at least 15 years old.

The move to 3D environments was the last paradigm shift in gaming, all other advances are just an evolution of an already established genre.

Oh, and Trap Door is just as good now as it was when it first appeared on TV.

[humorguy]

This message is not being displayed because the poster is banned.

[Aircool_212]

And some games are still great after all these years. I'm still a very big fan of the platform/shooter Alien 3 on the Megadrive. I got everything just right - the gameplay, the graphics, the sound effects and some brilliant music. Ok, the last set of levels were a bit poor, but level 4 (each level had 3 sub levels and a boss level) is one of the most atmospheric part of a game that I've ever played.

However, Alien 3 is a retro game (or is it just an old game)... An independant developer doesn't automatically mean cheap retro rip-off...

[shimrod]

So, indie games are played by some for nostalgic reasons, by some because they like their games simple, and by some who are mad about the fact that PC's need upgrades.

And some hate them.

For the sake of argument (and to make sure everyone gets the devils advocate bit!) consider this:

One day Crysis might be considered retro...

[humorguy]

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[jon_hill987]

[minus19]

It wasn't meant to be a 'wind up', just to present an alternative argument.

In some ways I agree. Everyone claims Audiosurf is amazing when its just a mix of Rez and Klax. It is good but it's two very old concepts mashed together and served as something new and unique and everyone is eating it up like it's the best meal they've ever had when really it's just some old veg.

It's just as blind to always side with the little man as it is to side with the Corporation.

Ps: All you need to run crysis on high is a geforce 8800GT and a decent Dual Core or q6600.
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[jvgp100]

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